Earlier this year Iris Robinson made a statement about Gay people which offended most of the Nation. This is what she believes and was ridiculed for it. People where calling for her to be arrested. How is Gregory Campbell's statement different.He made a statement to offend people in Northern Ireland. He knew what he was saying.

There is one main difference between Gregory Campbell and Iris Robinson. Iris Robinson never meant to offend anyone with her comments when Gregory Campbell did

oisinboy (Antrim) - Posts: 335 - 25/09/2008 09:43:01    107272

Patrique,

As much as I admire you devotion to socialism and non-sectarianism I think at times this devotion clouds your judgement. Gregory Campbell despite your claims to the contrary has certainly not embraced the current devolved administration with open arms. He, more than most has been dragged kicking and screaming to the table along with a few others in the DUP, in fact he shares common ground with TUV and Jim Allister probably even more than the more 'liberal/realistic' elements in his own party. Having seen this man operate politically for much of my life there is not one bone of compromise in his body, hes one of the 'Lundy brigade' who still believes in Protestant Supremacy and took his lead from George Seawright.

As much as i'll defend your right of reply to most posts on this messageboard im afraid I take offence at your reference to Andersonstown(Andytown as im sure you know was the name given to the estate by our 'Millwall loving protectors') and only selling 2 copies of the United Irishman. Somehow implying that nobody in 'andytown' was either politically aware or even cared about nationalism is ridiculous. We all know 1969 and probably more realistically 1970/1971/1972 were the years when most people in the north, never mind 'andytown' developed a heightened sense of nationalism due to the curfew/bloody sunday/internment for obvious reasons. As someone who has taught history and politics im sure you are well of the aware of the consequences politically of those years.

Finally, I admire your knowledge of all things GAA which is considerable, however, leave the party political broadcasts to other sites!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 25/09/2008 12:20:47    107534

Lads, I keep telling you, the peace process is a well choreographed soap opera, with false posturing and such to try to fool the bigots, and it has.

I remember writing a newspaper article in 1995 saying Sinn Fein and Dup would end up power sharing, as it was the logical solution. People thought I was mad. Maybe I was, but I was right.

Every time we are about to do something, there has to be a false "Crisis" and sabre rattling. We are about to devolve policing powers. So the politicians pretend " never" and "not an Inch".

But the policing powers will be devolved, while Gregory and Martin talk about fishing while sitting in the bar.

Trust me.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 25/09/2008 13:34:59    107645

Oisinboy, I think there are a few differences, which i cant mention.

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 25/09/2008 14:06:19    107695

Patrique, your holier than thou assertion that I insult the public servants on the Tyrone team is a typical canard to deflect from the paucity of your argument. Given the top-heavy reliance on the public purse in what was once described as that "failed political entity," some of my best friends. as they say. My observation on your public service status was directly related to your trenchant defence of a bungling minister: Is that not what public servants are paid to do? Besides your relationship with Arthur Scargill (weren't we all well in with the miners in 1984 before we moved up to the seniors?), your assertion that DUP and SF were working together on councils back then is so wide of the mark that it is as believable as an Official IRA ceasefire in the mid-1970s. To take just one example of what was going on back in the mid-1980s, your former confrere Ivan Barr of Strabane (a true republican socialist) was elected for SF back then and spent years sitting behind screens erected at meetings by the DUP. It was not until SF became the major party on many councils that power-sharing was introduced and, as you know well, that situation does not pertain in most councils east of the Bann. You truly are in "cloud cuckoo land" (when did that expression disappear from public discourse?) if you believe the peace process has been a "carefully constructed soap opera" since 1982. It wasn't even on the agenda for both main players - DUP and SF - and one still wonders if it is on the DUP's now. As for citing opinion polls to prove a political point, the first answer you report is as legitimate as the second. Nobody wants to pay more for anything unless they are fools and we should know that such polls elicit the answers sought. Finally your calculated insult that I and MOMO (the two you address) are "diehards and bigots" who are out to "bully and shun" those who disagree, shows that you have tempered none of your self-righteous pomposity since your political line was first shunned by the same people you cite in an opinion poll whenever they have had the opportunity to do so in a real poll. Finally, before you take another cheap shot, I am not, nor have I ever been, a member of SF and neither do I support much of their policies beyond the quest for peace and a united Ireland by political means.

Borderboy (Monaghan) - Posts: 277 - 25/09/2008 14:11:17    107702

To be expected from Unionist politicians.

First heard the Kingdom one after Armagh - Kerry in 2002. Thought it was quite funny really, fail to see the fuss. In the same way everyone sings to the Derry boys "there's no London in Tyrone/Antrim/Down etc...". Mind you I also thought the line about going home because it's over from the Rangers' Famine Song was quite witty. Worse things than words have been thrown about this country I can tell you!

YOP - polticians in NI generally don't represent anyone but themselves. Write a speech about us and them, Taigs/Huns come election time and put the cheque in the bank. I've never heard anyone explain how the hundreds of Romanian beggars in Belfast are here for example

Benandonner (Antrim) - Posts: 459 - 25/09/2008 15:10:25    107798

borderboy,

Not all public servants toe the party line, particularly given that the said GC happens to be the minister for my current employers!!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 25/09/2008 16:34:13    107909

he's about as annoying as joe brolly.

daytona11 (Kildare) - Posts: 4012 - 25/09/2008 16:44:26    107921

bumpernut
County: Antrim
Posts: 77

If anything I have said could be interpreted as stating that all public servants toe the party line, I apologise here and now. I certainly do not believe that the overwhelming majority of those working in Culture Arts and Leisure would countenance their minister's comments about the All-Ireland final and any who would defend them would only do so because that is their job.

Borderboy (Monaghan) - Posts: 277 - 25/09/2008 17:07:49    107947

wise_guy
County: Tyrone
Posts: 82

'but what is Protestant culture'

Wise Guy i'm not sure i suppose Marching/cricket, or maybe shoe polishing. Either way I have respect for protestants and I wish they could respect our culture and not find it as a offence.

BeanSoupYUM (Tyrone) - Posts: 51 - 25/09/2008 17:24:09    107974

This is not designed to insult, but to provoke thought. Many of you are outraged at Gregory saying something, saying he did it to provoke people. Now for those of you who take this stance, imagine that you had been born in a staunch Unionist background. You arrive at work in Strabane, a workplace that promotes a neutral environment, and you see a car with a Tyrone flag on it. Do you think; A: That's Jim's car, he is just supporting Tyrone B; That's Jim's car, he is deliberately trying to provoke us. Think about it and answer honestly. Now the person who complained about the flag is a moron. He/she gets their kicks when people are annoyed. Gregory-- I do not agree with anything he said, but he has a right to say it. Gregory was trying to annoy people, and succeeded. How can you let a moron annoy you? That's what amazed me. I couldn't give a monkey's what Gregory said. Now poor Gregory's world has collapsed. As he was growing up "Croppies" kept a low profile, now they are taking over, and all over the place, and winning all Ireland's in now a big media event in the north. So he say's something to annoy people. Clever people just go "Dead on, Gregory, you're right". That annoys Gregory. I like winning verbal skirmishes, and that's how you do it. Just to clear up a few things. Foreign security forces, such as the SS or the South African special branch, or the CIA up to their necks in blood, were all eligible to play GAA. United Kingdom forces were not. The vote cast to defeat the overthrow of the removal, the time 160 delegates went for a slash at the same tiome, was cast by a Superintendant from the West Midlands police force. Yes, the Birmingham 6 police force. This man was a member of Warickshire GAA. How did he have a vote? And Sinn Fein and the DUP couldn't OPENLY co-operate back in the 1980s, too many blood thirsty people on both sides would have been alarmed that there was a "sell out" on the agenda. So they had to fool people, and obviously succeeded. As for someone poking fun at Arthur Scargill, I hope you enjoy being a boss's lackey. Doubtless you have a James Connolly pin in your lapel, being an obvious fool. Now, I think I have exhausted this topic. I was not alarmed by what Gregory said, but by the reaction to it.

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 25/09/2008 19:28:32    108044

Remember politicians come, politicians go, but Tyrone have taken home Sam 3 times in 6 years.
Who's gonna be remembered?

Politicans will never make people jump for joy, hug a complete stranger next to them on pure emotion and generally give them a 100,000 strong party in the streets.

Give politicians the time of day they deserve - little or none.

chtyrone (Tyrone) - Posts: 13 - 25/09/2008 21:07:01    108116

"As for someone poking fun at Arthur Scargill, I hope you enjoy being a boss's lackey. Doubtless you have a James Connolly pin in your lapel, being an obvious fool." ______ Patrique, you just couldn't resist the cheap shot, could you? In place of solid argument, you resort to ad hominem insult and erroneous stereotyping. So in the interest of accuracy, let's recap on this thread: GAA supporters come on to register their anger and disgust that the North's Minister for Sport has delivered a calculated and deliberate insult to all-Ireland champions, Tyrone, and the GAA in general. You reply, saying that he is "politically correct" and that unless we had been "stuck into an all-Ireland" without your knowledge, Tyrone is British. I enter the fray to point out that I actually heard Gregory Campbell and I explain to fellow HS posters the context and the tone in which his calculated insult was delivered. Obviously not having heard the broadcast, you then change tack and accuse those who take issue with Gregory Campbell's comment of being in favour of "ethnic cleansing"! You then start to outline your GAA and political credentials in opposing sectarianism and you make the entirely unsubstantiated and ridiculous claim that Gregory Campbell has been "working closely with Sinn Fein" on the peace process for the past 25 years or so. I come back to challenge that claim and point out that GC has been a trenchant opponent of peace and only somebody in his ministeriall team who is paid to defend him after his calculated insult to the GAA could do so. You return to suggest that the fault for GC's remarks was with Radio Ulster who deliberately invited him on air to insult the GAA because he was not a "GAA fan". You ignore the fact that he is actually the North's Minister for Sport! You then take a cheap shot at me by saying that I have insulted all public servants in the North, including those playing for Tyrone and you then go off into a flying fancy about being a flying picket during the coalminers' strike in 1984. And while at last admitting that GC made a "churlish remark" you suggest that the fault for that probably lies with the "moron diehards and bigots" on this GAA website. Subsequently you come back to repeat your ridiculous claims that the entire peace process has been a choreographed deal between Gregory Campbell's DUP and SF and you intimate that you have the inside track on how it will all work out. Anyone who does not accept this, you insist, is a "bigot". I challenge you again on your total misrepresentation of the political facts in the north and your resort to another cheap shot at me and others who oppose you. Finally, you come back with your clincher - the great denouement of Patrique's grand political strategy - and here it is in a nutshell: OK, Gregory Campbell is actually a moron who believes Croppies should lie down, but the way to deal with his bullying is to agree with him because that will annoy him. "I like winning verbal skirmishes, and that's how you do it," you declare in a flurry of triumph. But not content with that pearl of wisdom, you resort to insulting speculation and inaccurate presumption about my employment status, my politics and my mode of dress and you wind up by dismissing me as an "obvious fool". Patrique, I am more than happy to let other posters decide who is the "obvious fool" on this thread.

Borderboy (Monaghan) - Posts: 277 - 26/09/2008 10:17:10    108321

'After a request from the Minister, DCAL Assembly Section has been asked to ensure that all staff drafting answers to Assembly Question note the following:

The Minister has commented on the length of some recent answers to Written Assembly Questions and has expressed his preference for officials to draft short and succinct answers to assembly questions.'


This is an e-mail received on behalf of GC this morning. Do I really need to add anything to it?? Although Snuf and Patrique, no long-winded replies from youse in particular, so keep them short and succinct and comprehensible!!!!!!!

bumpernut (Antrim) - Posts: 1852 - 26/09/2008 10:20:17    108327

Boderboy, don't bother with him, he has been caught telling untruths. Up Monaghan and lets hope they can do it (although I also have a fondness for the rebels).

Tom1916 (Armagh) - Posts: 2001 - 26/09/2008 10:41:02    108352

Intelligent and insightful debating from Borderboy on this thread.

But I do feel that the final word should go to chtyrone's input:

Remember politicians come, politicians go, but Tyrone have taken home Sam 3 times in 6 years.
Who's gonna be remembered?
Politicians will never make people jump for joy, hug a complete stranger next to them on pure emotion and generally give them a 100,000 strong party in the streets.

Wests_Awake (Galway) - Posts: 877 - 26/09/2008 11:40:57    108444

I've already mentioned in a prevoius thread about what happened when I met Gregory in the line of my work. His latest comments only go to reiterate what a bitter narrow minded bigot the man is. Have met other people from the DUP as a consequence of my work and found them (Willie Hay , Joe Millar and Ian og) to be decent enough people and not at all like the stereotypical image of a DUP politician. Gregory Campbell belongs back in the era of the B specials and the never not an inch era.

dubupnorth (Dublin) - Posts: 1897 - 26/09/2008 12:00:45    108486

Very interesting and inciteful Dubupnorth. I would fint it very hard not to give him a Hackballscross uppercut between the legs if i was meeting him.

Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 26/09/2008 12:35:33    108566

Borderboy - Excellent post
Greogry Campbell mad a calculated comment to wind nationalists up.
The way I look at what must really rub GC's nose in it is that the Irish culture, games and natoinalism has never been as strong in the north and long may it continue.

Yop (Wexford) - Posts: 362 - 26/09/2008 14:11:32    108732

Borderboy, I apologise. That is sincere, and arguing politics on a site is fruitless, but I will attempt to respond. You took the time to prepare a considered argument, and out of respect I will reply.

I couldn't resist the cheap shot, that is true. Unfortunately I was there when entire communities were wiped out by the Tories decision to close down the profitable coal industry just to get rid of the union. The decision was taken in 1978, when they were not even in power.

Having seen this first hand, I react to casual jokes about the miners. A casual joke about Arthur Scargill or the miners is a thousand times worse to me that Gregory's remarks.

The reference to Public Servants, and serving masters, implied to me members of the current Tyrone team bowing the knee to the crown. I haven't seen this team bow the knee to anyone. I do trade union work, all of the time, opposing the masters.

The choreographed peace process was not just between Dup and Sinn Fein. The British, Irish, Brussels and USA governments, and a number of other interested parties were involved. The IRA did not suddenly one day in August 1994 say "here lads, let's call a ceasefire tonight". Years and years of planning went into it. This is all well documented, and there are a number of excellent books about it. The aim was to have DUP and Sinn Fein sharing power, as this would isolate extremists.

Suffice to say when John Major's Government were in difficulties, and he tried to renege, Martin McGuinnesss produced documentary evidence of all of these clandestine meetings. So it cannot be that "ridiculous".

None of us will ever know the truth about all of the dodgy dealings in the North, but some have been revealed.

The peace process was designed to move slowly, to avoid splits on both sides, and to isolate "extremists". Many potential "Extremist" leaders were removed, one way or the other.

However many in the North are conditioned after all these years, and I still meet nationalists who say "nothing will ever change here". I look astonished and scream "Martin McGuinness is Deputy First Minister".

So things have changed, I know because I live here and attended some of these clandestine meetings, in a very minor role.

That is not to dismiss your viewpoint. I have strong views about Israel, USA, South America and other places, but someone on the inside in Israel is always going to be better informed than me. I am not dismissing your views because you do not live in the North. That would be stupid.

And being politically aware, Borderboy as you obviously are, I will explain my philosophy. Some may come on here and ask "what is that nut talking about" but you will understand. You may not agree, but you will understand.

A man went down to the lough shore one day. There were ducks on the lough. The man threw a Union Jack into the lough. The ducks ignored it. He then threw a Tricolour into the lough. The ducks ignored it. He then threw a loaf of bread into the lough and the ducks went mad for it.

Why are ducks so intelligent?

patrique (Antrim) - Posts: 13709 - 26/09/2008 18:14:42    109066