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Tyrone V Meath Nfl Rd 1.

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Replying To Crinigan:  "Years and years of bitter disappointment, constantly losing when it counts, even with outside expensively bought in players and managers will do that to your self esteem."
Name two bought in players there like a good man

Sweetspot (Kildare) - Posts: 168 - 26/01/2020 22:05:58    2262699

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Replying To lilypad:  "whipping boys i like that"
I hope hope we don't lose every game like Kildare did when they made it to division 1 a few years ago.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 624 - 26/01/2020 23:00:00    2262725

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Meath need to learn, & quickly.

We played some very nice flowing, handpassing moves at times especially in first half. However, we squandered too many opportunities, as I counted 10 not converted in that period, including 2 wonderful goal chances. The second half, we simply didn't have the guile or courage to penetrate the re-structured defensive set up from Tyrone. Micky Harte recognised that Meath were able to penetrate when only Colm Cavanagh was sweeping back, and correctly re-structured at half time with more players back and leaving the impressive Darren McCurry and (any) 1 other up front. That said, Tyrone kicked some bad wides also.

Meath just simply don't have the strength in depth either. No harm to our substitutions, but they didn't better our team. (Ronan Jones & Matthew Costello on his debut, were okay and tried). Whereas, Mark Bradley, Kyle Coney etc increased the options for Tyrone.

Our Goalkeeper situation, is as has been discussed endlessly. So.... Its costly!

David (Meath) - Posts: 557 - 27/01/2020 00:07:43    2262742

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Replying To David:  "Meath need to learn, & quickly.

We played some very nice flowing, handpassing moves at times especially in first half. However, we squandered too many opportunities, as I counted 10 not converted in that period, including 2 wonderful goal chances. The second half, we simply didn't have the guile or courage to penetrate the re-structured defensive set up from Tyrone. Micky Harte recognised that Meath were able to penetrate when only Colm Cavanagh was sweeping back, and correctly re-structured at half time with more players back and leaving the impressive Darren McCurry and (any) 1 other up front. That said, Tyrone kicked some bad wides also.

Meath just simply don't have the strength in depth either. No harm to our substitutions, but they didn't better our team. (Ronan Jones & Matthew Costello on his debut, were okay and tried). Whereas, Mark Bradley, Kyle Coney etc increased the options for Tyrone.

Our Goalkeeper situation, is as has been discussed endlessly. So.... Its costly!"
Fail and accurate account.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 16454 - 27/01/2020 10:21:15    2262800

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Tyrone not up to much either. Disjointed performance. A lot made out of Meath missing players. Every team is missing players.

We were without the Donnelly brothers, Peter Harte, Pádraig Hampsey and Michael McKernan. Not to mention Cathal McShane.

OGarmaile (Tyrone) - Posts: 218 - 27/01/2020 10:54:17    2262824

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "I hope hope we don't lose every game like Kildare did when they made it to division 1 a few years ago."
You may...

Galwaymaster9 (Galway) - Posts: 173 - 27/01/2020 11:14:15    2262834

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "I hope hope we don't lose every game like Kildare did when they made it to division 1 a few years ago."
God that would be awful

lilypad (Kildare) - Posts: 1084 - 27/01/2020 12:23:20    2262847

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Replying To Galwaymaster9:  "You may..."
Unfortunately I know this is a possibility. I was just pointing out the irony of a Kildare poster slagging this Meath team for their lack of competitiveness in division 1.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 624 - 27/01/2020 13:43:20    2262886

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The reality is Meath were always going to struggle on their return to Div 1. As has been stated on here every panel in the country has injuries, so i dont think Meath have any right to feel hard done by.
What i do feel is that Meath have a shallow enough panel as it is and very little to no top level experience, so it was imperative to have as strong a squad possible going into the league.
Meath had 6 players starting yesterday that werent playing last year.
New GK - a new gk was badly needed. Yorke was thrown in after an injury to our Number 1 in the warm-up. had a bad game and was whipped at ht.
Two new Corner backs Clarke and Toner - Last year Lavin and Gallagher were brilliant for us and it looked like our full back line was settled and good enough to compete with Div 1 forwards for the forseeable future. The loss of those two is massive and definitely the biggest blow to Meath, Tyrones full forward line wouldnt be the strongest in the division either so if we are without our main corner backs for the remainder of the league we're in big trouble.
New midfielder Brian Conlon - Brian made 1 championship start for meath in 2017. played league in 18 and wasnt on the panel last year so a big step up yesterday.
The Wallace brothers wing and corner forwards - Both Wallaces have played for meath before but both have been off the panel a couple of years. Both had brilliant years with their club but its still a tall ask to jump straight into div 1 football.

As i said every county has injuries but Meath have a strong 15 and a light enough panel with very little impact from the bench so a full squad was vital this year. Anyways i think Meath will battle hard but come up short. They dont have a kickout strategy and arent physical or street smart enough either which will cost them.
This isnt meant to be too critical or all doom and gloom, Meath are improving and hopefully will continue to do so but unfortunately they are the weakest team in Div 1 at the minute but are trying to progress that.

Lastly funny to see the kildare posters rushing on to have a sneer at Meath. Realistically Kildare are a nothing county. They claim to be a Traditional football county but have won 3 leinsters in 70 years. They have taken great delight in being number 2 in the province the last few years - something a real footballing county would never do.

Meathmaverick (Meath) - Posts: 81 - 27/01/2020 13:46:56    2262888

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On this actual match (rather than a pissing contest between Meath and Kildare), there was nothing at all between the 2 teams in the 1st half. The movement of the Meath forwards and quick passing to them exploited a strangely disorganised Tyrone defensive unit, Meath exploited space well but as others have said didn't convert.
In the 2nd half Tyrone got organised off the ball, strangled Meath and as is their pattern over recent years a scoring burst of 5 or so points in a 10 minute spell killed the game. I thought Meath tired significantly in the last quarter and Colm Cavanagh all of a sudden ruled the skies.

As at least 1 other poster has observed the Meath subs didn't in general seem to be an improvement on what came off whilst the Tyrone subs Bradley and McDonnell in particular brought about improvement, so the depth of the panel would be a concern to Meath supporters.

For my own county we had too many continuity players wearing forwards shirts, players like McGeary, Meyler and Burns who are great lads at that high energy game of blocking spaces and keeping the ball moving but don't have a great deal of creativity in attack or consistent score taking in their arsenal. This left creativity largely down to Sludden and O'Neil (who had a brilliant assist for the goal) and the scoring burden resting largely on the shoulders of McCurry who was excellent thankfully. Bradley brought new life to the forwards when he came on and it's good to see him back.

To move on from here I think we need to see Petey Harte and Richie Donnelly getting back into that forward unit in the relatively short term to add to the creativity and score taking options, with the understanding that Mattie Donnelly is a long-term absentee and Cathal McShane will be trying his luck in Australia.
Defensively we were missing a couple of possible starters but once we got the organisation and match-ups right we were solid enough.

Not a great game or performance but you'll always take any sort of win in the early rounds, 2 more and we're safe, Meath might find it tough as they'll meet better teams than us

downredhand (Tyrone) - Posts: 556 - 27/01/2020 14:43:37    2262913

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Replying To Meathmaverick:  "The reality is Meath were always going to struggle on their return to Div 1. As has been stated on here every panel in the country has injuries, so i dont think Meath have any right to feel hard done by.
What i do feel is that Meath have a shallow enough panel as it is and very little to no top level experience, so it was imperative to have as strong a squad possible going into the league.
Meath had 6 players starting yesterday that werent playing last year.
New GK - a new gk was badly needed. Yorke was thrown in after an injury to our Number 1 in the warm-up. had a bad game and was whipped at ht.
Two new Corner backs Clarke and Toner - Last year Lavin and Gallagher were brilliant for us and it looked like our full back line was settled and good enough to compete with Div 1 forwards for the forseeable future. The loss of those two is massive and definitely the biggest blow to Meath, Tyrones full forward line wouldnt be the strongest in the division either so if we are without our main corner backs for the remainder of the league we're in big trouble.
New midfielder Brian Conlon - Brian made 1 championship start for meath in 2017. played league in 18 and wasnt on the panel last year so a big step up yesterday.
The Wallace brothers wing and corner forwards - Both Wallaces have played for meath before but both have been off the panel a couple of years. Both had brilliant years with their club but its still a tall ask to jump straight into div 1 football.

As i said every county has injuries but Meath have a strong 15 and a light enough panel with very little impact from the bench so a full squad was vital this year. Anyways i think Meath will battle hard but come up short. They dont have a kickout strategy and arent physical or street smart enough either which will cost them.
This isnt meant to be too critical or all doom and gloom, Meath are improving and hopefully will continue to do so but unfortunately they are the weakest team in Div 1 at the minute but are trying to progress that.

Lastly funny to see the kildare posters rushing on to have a sneer at Meath. Realistically Kildare are a nothing county. They claim to be a Traditional football county but have won 3 leinsters in 70 years. They have taken great delight in being number 2 in the province the last few years - something a real footballing county would never do."
Bit harsh to call Kildare a nothing county when we have beaten Meath more times in championship football history than the other way round. Only for the Land Commission and the influx of West of Ireland folk, Meath would have no more silverware than Kildare.

11jm11 (Kildare) - Posts: 342 - 27/01/2020 15:06:25    2262922

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Replying To downredhand:  "On this actual match (rather than a pissing contest between Meath and Kildare), there was nothing at all between the 2 teams in the 1st half. The movement of the Meath forwards and quick passing to them exploited a strangely disorganised Tyrone defensive unit, Meath exploited space well but as others have said didn't convert.
In the 2nd half Tyrone got organised off the ball, strangled Meath and as is their pattern over recent years a scoring burst of 5 or so points in a 10 minute spell killed the game. I thought Meath tired significantly in the last quarter and Colm Cavanagh all of a sudden ruled the skies.

As at least 1 other poster has observed the Meath subs didn't in general seem to be an improvement on what came off whilst the Tyrone subs Bradley and McDonnell in particular brought about improvement, so the depth of the panel would be a concern to Meath supporters.

For my own county we had too many continuity players wearing forwards shirts, players like McGeary, Meyler and Burns who are great lads at that high energy game of blocking spaces and keeping the ball moving but don't have a great deal of creativity in attack or consistent score taking in their arsenal. This left creativity largely down to Sludden and O'Neil (who had a brilliant assist for the goal) and the scoring burden resting largely on the shoulders of McCurry who was excellent thankfully. Bradley brought new life to the forwards when he came on and it's good to see him back.

To move on from here I think we need to see Petey Harte and Richie Donnelly getting back into that forward unit in the relatively short term to add to the creativity and score taking options, with the understanding that Mattie Donnelly is a long-term absentee and Cathal McShane will be trying his luck in Australia.
Defensively we were missing a couple of possible starters but once we got the organisation and match-ups right we were solid enough.

Not a great game or performance but you'll always take any sort of win in the early rounds, 2 more and we're safe, Meath might find it tough as they'll meet better teams than us"
Again can't disagree with that.
I think when people say everyone is missing players (which of course is true) the reality is Meath more so than any county in division does not have the strength in depth to sustain this, our sins didn't add anything, actually I'd say apart from one they were equal to or slightly below what came off. WE DONT HAVE STRENGTH IN-DEPTH OF OTHER TEAMS. Therefore the injuries have been a huge blow to us . It's not excuses it's a fact, this is why I think a call should be made to graham Reilly to see will he return and give us a dig out, he certainly wouldn't have won the game yesterday but coming on in second half he may have given the very young lads a bit of a lift and a bit of direction at crucial times. Tyrone would have still won (as they were the better team) but we needed someone to settle the younger lads when things were slipping away.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 16454 - 27/01/2020 15:27:39    2262928

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Replying To bdbuddah:  "I hope hope we don't lose every game like Kildare did when they made it to division 1 a few years ago."
Did Kildare not get to the Super 8 the same year??

The_Fonz (Westmeath) - Posts: 105 - 27/01/2020 17:37:35    2262971

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Replying To 11jm11:  "Bit harsh to call Kildare a nothing county when we have beaten Meath more times in championship football history than the other way round. Only for the Land Commission and the influx of West of Ireland folk, Meath would have no more silverware than Kildare."
Well I think its 19 wins for kildare 18 for Meath. So yes Its close. Im open correction in that it could be 20 to 19 , its around that ballpark number. Yes kildare do have a very good record v Meath , it evens enough. Its a very even rivalry in terms of matchs between the counties I think kildare have 19 wins Meath 18 in the championship. In the last 35 years in Meath v kildare championship match there has been 2 draws and 6 wins for kildare and 6 wins for Meath. In the last decade in the championship Meath have 2 wins kildare have 3 wins. So its very close. And your right thr record v Meath for kildare in leinster is very good when you compare Meaths record v rest of the leinster counties where Meaths record would be very good, even v the Dubs. Its an even rivalry in terms of games.

But in terms of trophies there is a gap eg Meath have won 7 national league div 1 titiles , kildare have 0 national league div 1 titles. Meath have reached 15 All Ireland senior finals in last 90 year kildare have reached 2. In last 90 years Meath has 11 All Irelands at every grade , kildare have 2. So both have great traditions , both football mad counties , both have strong club structure. Both have two different era of sucess. kildare in the early part of the gaa , Meath in the latter. And kildares record v the Dubs would be very poor , while Meaths record would overall , be very good v the Dubs. Meath have beaten Dublin in the championship and league more then any other county. Most of kildares wins v Dublin would been prior to 1930.

From 1900 to 1930 kildare were a superpower in gaelic football. One of the orginal aristocrats of the game. Kildare Dublin and kerry dominated 1920s. The first great gaa football rivalry is kildare v kerry in 1920s. Players like Larry Stanley are still admired in kildare and deservedly so. The kildare team of the 20s is one the great gaa teams, one of the greatest to ever come from leinster.

Meath in that period would be a div 4 county when kildare were football superpower. Then from 1940 to 1990 and its mystery in many ways , kildare disappeared from the top of the football table to div 2 and 3 at best. Why this happenned is a mystery. When I was growing up the question was what happenned to kildare? . While in the same period 1940 to 1990 Meath became a football power. In the first 50 years of the GAA Dublin Kerry Galway Wexford kildare and Cavan are the strong sucessful counties. Then for the following 70 years Kerry Dublin Galway Cork and Meath were the sucesful counties consistently every decade.
Then Dwyer went to kildare in 1991 and woke up a sleeping gaint. It take 5 years and two attemps but in 1998 kildare were back. Meath also in the 1990s continued their sucess.

But after 2000 both counties followed a similar path. Both counties failed to live with Dublin , both counties failed to win leinster titles , both counties had a dreadful record v Ulster counties and both counties failed to stay in div 1 or break into the top 6 or 7 teams in the country. Both counties have got more underage sucess recently , both counties have got more finance and coachs in East leinster project recently. It will be fascinating to see how both counties do in next 10 to 20 years.

Regard Meath sucess was down to influx from the west and land Commission. This is a bit of the myth. Because most of the land Commission and people moving to Meath from the west begins really in 1940s, 1950s and 1960s. Meath were sucesful before the migration eg 1930s leinster titles and league titles and All Ireland finalist in the 30s and 1940s 1950 1960s eg 3 All Ireland , 2 league div 1 titles and 9 leinster titles.

So when the western families were moving to Meath with young children . Meath were winning titles. The winning Meath teams of the 30s 40s 50s and into 60 were not made up west of Ireland migrants. Look at the names of the Meath players who won All Irelands in that peiod, so many of our old Meath families. Its not til 80s and 90s when the children of the people who migrated to Meath from west of Ireland in 40s 50s 60s thats when they grew up their children played for Meath eg O Malley ( Mayo ), O Rourke ( Leitrim) Coyle ( Donegal ). The 80s and 90s Meath team many of the players parents came from t land commision families or parents from the west. The same way the current Dublin team, so many of their parents are from kerry and Donegal and the west coast. These Dublin players families moved from the western seaboard in the 70s 80s and 90s to the Dublin suburbs and got jobs (many of them in the civil service ) and got involved in local gaa club and their children became Dublin greats eg McMemanin( Donegal ) , Sullivan ( Kerry ) etc. kildare also their teams of 90s and 00s had players who came from families who migrated from the west eg D Earley ( Roscommon).

The idea that land Commission and influx of migrats from the west is the reason Meath won All Irelands and kildare didnt falls down for another reason. There was a massive influx of west of Ireland people at the same time to kildare. What two counties outside Connacht and Dublin have the highest number of west of Ireland people , the answer is Meath and kildare. There is a massive Galway community in kildare , the same way there is a massive Mayo community in Meath. Both moved to areas of Meath and kildare in 1930s 1940s 1950s 1960s. Meath was more organised in terms a gaeltacht set up and it was more organised in certain areas in Meath , but there was land Commission in kildare for western migrats. The truth is in the 1940s 1950s 1960s there was a substantial movement of west of Ireland people to kildare, Meath and Dublin in this period , some organised by the government others just moved themselves. I know this myself personally my father is a west of Ireland man and my mother a Meath woman.

Take areas in north kildare. As I said there is a huge Galway community in this area of kildare. Take Maynooth , in rural areas around Maynooth on the kildare side of the border there is so many farmers who came to the area in 40s 50s. I know one road in the area just outside Maynooth in kildare where farms side by side which are owed by families from Donegal , kerry , Galway and Clare . All migrated to kildare in 30s and 40s 50s 60s onwards onwards. They would have left say Galway at 4 or 5. Moved to kildare and grew up in kildare.

This is very common in this part of kildare but also in other parts of kildare. The land Commission acquired land in areas such as Donadea and Clane and even down.as far as Naas and Newbridge. In the early 40s there was massive complaints from families from the west to local kildare TD and government that land Commission was not building enough house or aquiring enough land in kildare and the process was to slow for the amount of people migrating to kildare from the west . Fianna Fail in the early 40s increased the land Commission following these complaints.

Kilcullen would be an area with land Commission alao. Land Commision acquired land from a English Colonel in the area and people moved to kilcullen to areas such as Milltown and Moorestown. The land Commission acquired 100 areas around Newbridge and 200 acres in a place called Morristown near Newbridge as well as other areas, so it wasnt just the north it was every part of kildare. The land Commission was active in many areas in kildare, but especially in the north of kildare , especially around an area like Maynooth on both sides of the Meath and kildare border , where people moved from the west of their own accord and others times moved as part of land Commission.

So it cannot just be down to land Commission and west of Ireland migration that Meath were sucessful in 1930s 40s 50s 60s and kildare werent As kildare also had substantial migration from the west. I cannot fullu explain why kildare declined really but when county has a hugely sucessful period , a county declines usually after a golden age of sucess. look at Meath after 80s and 90s , Cavan after 40s and 50s , Tipp hurling after 60s. Any county that had a golden age alwaywls dips in the years afterwards. But why kildare dipped and Meath improved its a considered a mystery. But I think there is a few obvious why Meath emerged.

Why Meath emerged in 30s 40s and 50s and 60s. Was down to couple of extraordinary men. Firstly Meath had one of greatest early coachs and trainers in the history of the game in Father Tully. Father Tully was the Sean Boylan of the 40s and 50s. While there was no managers in this period. There was a handful of great trainers and coachs. Kerry had Eamon Sullivan who was trainer from 1924 to 1962 winning 8 All Irelands for kilkenny. Fr Tommy Maher was the trainer of kilkenny from 1957 to 1975 winning 7 All Irelands . And then you had two other great football Coach at the time. Two of the most sucessful teams in the 40s 50s and 60s were Meath and Galway. Both had two of the best trainers coachs of all time. John" Tull" Dunne was coach/ trainer when Galway won the All Irelands in 1956 , 1964 , 1965, 1966 and he was on the sideline when Galway lost All Ireland finals in 1971 1973 and 1974.

The other great coach of the time was Meaths Fr Tully. The most sucessful trainer / coach, figure on the sideline in leinater football til kevin Heffernan took the Dublin job in 1974 and turned the trainer role into manager role. Fr Tully won as Meath trainer 3 All Irelands, 2 national league div 1 titles and 8 leinster titles from 1946 to 1967. The reason why Meath was sucesful and kildare is probaly down to two men Fr Tully and Sean Boylan. Tully is one of the greatest coachs in football ever and Boylan is one the greatest managers ever. Kildare didnt produce a trainer like Tully or a manager like Boylan. And thats probaly the difference. Its as simple as that.

Also Meath had two All time great footballers in 40s and 50s the king of Full Backs Paddy O Brien and Peter McDermont. These two players were hugely important at their peak. At his leak O Brien is considered by many to be greatest full back ever voted on the gaa team of the century in 1984. And McDermont was at his peak the best forward in Ireland. McDernont particularly was a massive influence on and off the field.
In the 60s Jack Quinn at his peak was considered the best footballer in Ireland. This was a time when Sean O Neill , Mick O Connell , Enda Colleran, Mattie McDonagh, James Mcarten and Sean Purcell were playing. Quinn most have been some player to be considered the best footballer in Ireland at his peak in that period.

So this myth that land Commision and influx of migrats is why Meath was sucessful and kildare werent. It doesnt hold up , as kildare also had huge migration from the west also. It was Meath teams of 80s and 90s and the kildare team of the 90s and current Dublin were young children of parents from western seaboard started winning All Irelands. Meath had two incredible gaa Men Fr Tully who built 2 different All Ireland teams and Sean Boylan who built 3 different All Ireland teams. And handful of truly great players like Paddy O Brien , Peter McDermont, Mick O Brien , Jack Quinn, Mattie Kerrigan and Pat Reynold snr but particularly Paddy O Brien , Peter McDermont and Jack Quinn. Usually when a team is sucessful you will find a great manager or trainer on the sideline and handful of great players on the pitch. That was reason why Meath won silverware from 1930 to 1970.

Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 968 - 27/01/2020 19:21:40    2263001

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Replying To Furlong1949:  "Well I think its 19 wins for kildare 18 for Meath. So yes Its close. Im open correction in that it could be 20 to 19 , its around that ballpark number. Yes kildare do have a very good record v Meath , it evens enough. Its a very even rivalry in terms of matchs between the counties I think kildare have 19 wins Meath 18 in the championship. In the last 35 years in Meath v kildare championship match there has been 2 draws and 6 wins for kildare and 6 wins for Meath. In the last decade in the championship Meath have 2 wins kildare have 3 wins. So its very close. And your right thr record v Meath for kildare in leinster is very good when you compare Meaths record v rest of the leinster counties where Meaths record would be very good, even v the Dubs. Its an even rivalry in terms of games.

But in terms of trophies there is a gap eg Meath have won 7 national league div 1 titiles , kildare have 0 national league div 1 titles. Meath have reached 15 All Ireland senior finals in last 90 year kildare have reached 2. In last 90 years Meath has 11 All Irelands at every grade , kildare have 2. So both have great traditions , both football mad counties , both have strong club structure. Both have two different era of sucess. kildare in the early part of the gaa , Meath in the latter. And kildares record v the Dubs would be very poor , while Meaths record would overall , be very good v the Dubs. Meath have beaten Dublin in the championship and league more then any other county. Most of kildares wins v Dublin would been prior to 1930.

From 1900 to 1930 kildare were a superpower in gaelic football. One of the orginal aristocrats of the game. Kildare Dublin and kerry dominated 1920s. The first great gaa football rivalry is kildare v kerry in 1920s. Players like Larry Stanley are still admired in kildare and deservedly so. The kildare team of the 20s is one the great gaa teams, one of the greatest to ever come from leinster.

Meath in that period would be a div 4 county when kildare were football superpower. Then from 1940 to 1990 and its mystery in many ways , kildare disappeared from the top of the football table to div 2 and 3 at best. Why this happenned is a mystery. When I was growing up the question was what happenned to kildare? . While in the same period 1940 to 1990 Meath became a football power. In the first 50 years of the GAA Dublin Kerry Galway Wexford kildare and Cavan are the strong sucessful counties. Then for the following 70 years Kerry Dublin Galway Cork and Meath were the sucesful counties consistently every decade.
Then Dwyer went to kildare in 1991 and woke up a sleeping gaint. It take 5 years and two attemps but in 1998 kildare were back. Meath also in the 1990s continued their sucess.

But after 2000 both counties followed a similar path. Both counties failed to live with Dublin , both counties failed to win leinster titles , both counties had a dreadful record v Ulster counties and both counties failed to stay in div 1 or break into the top 6 or 7 teams in the country. Both counties have got more underage sucess recently , both counties have got more finance and coachs in East leinster project recently. It will be fascinating to see how both counties do in next 10 to 20 years.

Regard Meath sucess was down to influx from the west and land Commission. This is a bit of the myth. Because most of the land Commission and people moving to Meath from the west begins really in 1940s, 1950s and 1960s. Meath were sucesful before the migration eg 1930s leinster titles and league titles and All Ireland finalist in the 30s and 1940s 1950 1960s eg 3 All Ireland , 2 league div 1 titles and 9 leinster titles.

So when the western families were moving to Meath with young children . Meath were winning titles. The winning Meath teams of the 30s 40s 50s and into 60 were not made up west of Ireland migrants. Look at the names of the Meath players who won All Irelands in that peiod, so many of our old Meath families. Its not til 80s and 90s when the children of the people who migrated to Meath from west of Ireland in 40s 50s 60s thats when they grew up their children played for Meath eg O Malley ( Mayo ), O Rourke ( Leitrim) Coyle ( Donegal ). The 80s and 90s Meath team many of the players parents came from t land commision families or parents from the west. The same way the current Dublin team, so many of their parents are from kerry and Donegal and the west coast. These Dublin players families moved from the western seaboard in the 70s 80s and 90s to the Dublin suburbs and got jobs (many of them in the civil service ) and got involved in local gaa club and their children became Dublin greats eg McMemanin( Donegal ) , Sullivan ( Kerry ) etc. kildare also their teams of 90s and 00s had players who came from families who migrated from the west eg D Earley ( Roscommon).

The idea that land Commission and influx of migrats from the west is the reason Meath won All Irelands and kildare didnt falls down for another reason. There was a massive influx of west of Ireland people at the same time to kildare. What two counties outside Connacht and Dublin have the highest number of west of Ireland people , the answer is Meath and kildare. There is a massive Galway community in kildare , the same way there is a massive Mayo community in Meath. Both moved to areas of Meath and kildare in 1930s 1940s 1950s 1960s. Meath was more organised in terms a gaeltacht set up and it was more organised in certain areas in Meath , but there was land Commission in kildare for western migrats. The truth is in the 1940s 1950s 1960s there was a substantial movement of west of Ireland people to kildare, Meath and Dublin in this period , some organised by the government others just moved themselves. I know this myself personally my father is a west of Ireland man and my mother a Meath woman.

Take areas in north kildare. As I said there is a huge Galway community in this area of kildare. Take Maynooth , in rural areas around Maynooth on the kildare side of the border there is so many farmers who came to the area in 40s 50s. I know one road in the area just outside Maynooth in kildare where farms side by side which are owed by families from Donegal , kerry , Galway and Clare . All migrated to kildare in 30s and 40s 50s 60s onwards onwards. They would have left say Galway at 4 or 5. Moved to kildare and grew up in kildare.

This is very common in this part of kildare but also in other parts of kildare. The land Commission acquired land in areas such as Donadea and Clane and even down.as far as Naas and Newbridge. In the early 40s there was massive complaints from families from the west to local kildare TD and government that land Commission was not building enough house or aquiring enough land in kildare and the process was to slow for the amount of people migrating to kildare from the west . Fianna Fail in the early 40s increased the land Commission following these complaints.

Kilcullen would be an area with land Commission alao. Land Commision acquired land from a English Colonel in the area and people moved to kilcullen to areas such as Milltown and Moorestown. The land Commission acquired 100 areas around Newbridge and 200 acres in a place called Morristown near Newbridge as well as other areas, so it wasnt just the north it was every part of kildare. The land Commission was active in many areas in kildare, but especially in the north of kildare , especially around an area like Maynooth on both sides of the Meath and kildare border , where people moved from the west of their own accord and others times moved as part of land Commission.

So it cannot just be down to land Commission and west of Ireland migration that Meath were sucessful in 1930s 40s 50s 60s and kildare werent As kildare also had substantial migration from the west. I cannot fullu explain why kildare declined really but when county has a hugely sucessful period , a county declines usually after a golden age of sucess. look at Meath after 80s and 90s , Cavan after 40s and 50s , Tipp hurling after 60s. Any county that had a golden age alwaywls dips in the years afterwards. But why kildare dipped and Meath improved its a considered a mystery. But I think there is a few obvious why Meath emerged.

Why Meath emerged in 30s 40s and 50s and 60s. Was down to couple of extraordinary men. Firstly Meath had one of greatest early coachs and trainers in the history of the game in Father Tully. Father Tully was the Sean Boylan of the 40s and 50s. While there was no managers in this period. There was a handful of great trainers and coachs. Kerry had Eamon Sullivan who was trainer from 1924 to 1962 winning 8 All Irelands for kilkenny. Fr Tommy Maher was the trainer of kilkenny from 1957 to 1975 winning 7 All Irelands . And then you had two other great football Coach at the time. Two of the most sucessful teams in the 40s 50s and 60s were Meath and Galway. Both had two of the best trainers coachs of all time. John" Tull" Dunne was coach/ trainer when Galway won the All Irelands in 1956 , 1964 , 1965, 1966 and he was on the sideline when Galway lost All Ireland finals in 1971 1973 and 1974.

The other great coach of the time was Meaths Fr Tully. The most sucessful trainer / coach, figure on the sideline in leinater football til kevin Heffernan took the Dublin job in 1974 and turned the trainer role into manager role. Fr Tully won as Meath trainer 3 All Irelands, 2 national league div 1 titles and 8 leinster titles from 1946 to 1967. The reason why Meath was sucesful and kildare is probaly down to two men Fr Tully and Sean Boylan. Tully is one of the greatest coachs in football ever and Boylan is one the greatest managers ever. Kildare didnt produce a trainer like Tully or a manager like Boylan. And thats probaly the difference. Its as simple as that.

Also Meath had two All time great footballers in 40s and 50s the king of Full Backs Paddy O Brien and Peter McDermont. These two players were hugely important at their peak. At his leak O Brien is considered by many to be greatest full back ever voted on the gaa team of the century in 1984. And McDermont was at his peak the best forward in Ireland. McDernont particularly was a massive influence on and off the field.
In the 60s Jack Quinn at his peak was considered the best footballer in Ireland. This was a time when Sean O Neill , Mick O Connell , Enda Colleran, Mattie McDonagh, James Mcarten and Sean Purcell were playing. Quinn most have been some player to be considered the best footballer in Ireland at his peak in that period.

So this myth that land Commision and influx of migrats is why Meath was sucessful and kildare werent. It doesnt hold up , as kildare also had huge migration from the west also. It was Meath teams of 80s and 90s and the kildare team of the 90s and current Dublin were young children of parents from western seaboard started winning All Irelands. Meath had two incredible gaa Men Fr Tully who built 2 different All Ireland teams and Sean Boylan who built 3 different All Ireland teams. And handful of truly great players like Paddy O Brien , Peter McDermont, Mick O Brien , Jack Quinn, Mattie Kerrigan and Pat Reynold snr but particularly Paddy O Brien , Peter McDermont and Jack Quinn. Usually when a team is sucessful you will find a great manager or trainer on the sideline and handful of great players on the pitch. That was reason why Meath won silverware from 1930 to 1970."
Excellent post. Honestly your knowledge is not equaled on this site.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 16454 - 27/01/2020 20:26:26    2263017

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I second that. Excellent post furlong. Your stats re the Land Commission in kildare are 100% correct.

lilywhite1 (Kildare) - Posts: 2966 - 27/01/2020 22:04:34    2263063

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Replying To Furlong1949:  "Well I think its 19 wins for kildare 18 for Meath. So yes Its close. Im open correction in that it could be 20 to 19 , its around that ballpark number. Yes kildare do have a very good record v Meath , it evens enough. Its a very even rivalry in terms of matchs between the counties I think kildare have 19 wins Meath 18 in the championship. In the last 35 years in Meath v kildare championship match there has been 2 draws and 6 wins for kildare and 6 wins for Meath. In the last decade in the championship Meath have 2 wins kildare have 3 wins. So its very close. And your right thr record v Meath for kildare in leinster is very good when you compare Meaths record v rest of the leinster counties where Meaths record would be very good, even v the Dubs. Its an even rivalry in terms of games.

But in terms of trophies there is a gap eg Meath have won 7 national league div 1 titiles , kildare have 0 national league div 1 titles. Meath have reached 15 All Ireland senior finals in last 90 year kildare have reached 2. In last 90 years Meath has 11 All Irelands at every grade , kildare have 2. So both have great traditions , both football mad counties , both have strong club structure. Both have two different era of sucess. kildare in the early part of the gaa , Meath in the latter. And kildares record v the Dubs would be very poor , while Meaths record would overall , be very good v the Dubs. Meath have beaten Dublin in the championship and league more then any other county. Most of kildares wins v Dublin would been prior to 1930.

From 1900 to 1930 kildare were a superpower in gaelic football. One of the orginal aristocrats of the game. Kildare Dublin and kerry dominated 1920s. The first great gaa football rivalry is kildare v kerry in 1920s. Players like Larry Stanley are still admired in kildare and deservedly so. The kildare team of the 20s is one the great gaa teams, one of the greatest to ever come from leinster.

Meath in that period would be a div 4 county when kildare were football superpower. Then from 1940 to 1990 and its mystery in many ways , kildare disappeared from the top of the football table to div 2 and 3 at best. Why this happenned is a mystery. When I was growing up the question was what happenned to kildare? . While in the same period 1940 to 1990 Meath became a football power. In the first 50 years of the GAA Dublin Kerry Galway Wexford kildare and Cavan are the strong sucessful counties. Then for the following 70 years Kerry Dublin Galway Cork and Meath were the sucesful counties consistently every decade.
Then Dwyer went to kildare in 1991 and woke up a sleeping gaint. It take 5 years and two attemps but in 1998 kildare were back. Meath also in the 1990s continued their sucess.

But after 2000 both counties followed a similar path. Both counties failed to live with Dublin , both counties failed to win leinster titles , both counties had a dreadful record v Ulster counties and both counties failed to stay in div 1 or break into the top 6 or 7 teams in the country. Both counties have got more underage sucess recently , both counties have got more finance and coachs in East leinster project recently. It will be fascinating to see how both counties do in next 10 to 20 years.

Regard Meath sucess was down to influx from the west and land Commission. This is a bit of the myth. Because most of the land Commission and people moving to Meath from the west begins really in 1940s, 1950s and 1960s. Meath were sucesful before the migration eg 1930s leinster titles and league titles and All Ireland finalist in the 30s and 1940s 1950 1960s eg 3 All Ireland , 2 league div 1 titles and 9 leinster titles.

So when the western families were moving to Meath with young children . Meath were winning titles. The winning Meath teams of the 30s 40s 50s and into 60 were not made up west of Ireland migrants. Look at the names of the Meath players who won All Irelands in that peiod, so many of our old Meath families. Its not til 80s and 90s when the children of the people who migrated to Meath from west of Ireland in 40s 50s 60s thats when they grew up their children played for Meath eg O Malley ( Mayo ), O Rourke ( Leitrim) Coyle ( Donegal ). The 80s and 90s Meath team many of the players parents came from t land commision families or parents from the west. The same way the current Dublin team, so many of their parents are from kerry and Donegal and the west coast. These Dublin players families moved from the western seaboard in the 70s 80s and 90s to the Dublin suburbs and got jobs (many of them in the civil service ) and got involved in local gaa club and their children became Dublin greats eg McMemanin( Donegal ) , Sullivan ( Kerry ) etc. kildare also their teams of 90s and 00s had players who came from families who migrated from the west eg D Earley ( Roscommon).

The idea that land Commission and influx of migrats from the west is the reason Meath won All Irelands and kildare didnt falls down for another reason. There was a massive influx of west of Ireland people at the same time to kildare. What two counties outside Connacht and Dublin have the highest number of west of Ireland people , the answer is Meath and kildare. There is a massive Galway community in kildare , the same way there is a massive Mayo community in Meath. Both moved to areas of Meath and kildare in 1930s 1940s 1950s 1960s. Meath was more organised in terms a gaeltacht set up and it was more organised in certain areas in Meath , but there was land Commission in kildare for western migrats. The truth is in the 1940s 1950s 1960s there was a substantial movement of west of Ireland people to kildare, Meath and Dublin in this period , some organised by the government others just moved themselves. I know this myself personally my father is a west of Ireland man and my mother a Meath woman.

Take areas in north kildare. As I said there is a huge Galway community in this area of kildare. Take Maynooth , in rural areas around Maynooth on the kildare side of the border there is so many farmers who came to the area in 40s 50s. I know one road in the area just outside Maynooth in kildare where farms side by side which are owed by families from Donegal , kerry , Galway and Clare . All migrated to kildare in 30s and 40s 50s 60s onwards onwards. They would have left say Galway at 4 or 5. Moved to kildare and grew up in kildare.

This is very common in this part of kildare but also in other parts of kildare. The land Commission acquired land in areas such as Donadea and Clane and even down.as far as Naas and Newbridge. In the early 40s there was massive complaints from families from the west to local kildare TD and government that land Commission was not building enough house or aquiring enough land in kildare and the process was to slow for the amount of people migrating to kildare from the west . Fianna Fail in the early 40s increased the land Commission following these complaints.

Kilcullen would be an area with land Commission alao. Land Commision acquired land from a English Colonel in the area and people moved to kilcullen to areas such as Milltown and Moorestown. The land Commission acquired 100 areas around Newbridge and 200 acres in a place called Morristown near Newbridge as well as other areas, so it wasnt just the north it was every part of kildare. The land Commission was active in many areas in kildare, but especially in the north of kildare , especially around an area like Maynooth on both sides of the Meath and kildare border , where people moved from the west of their own accord and others times moved as part of land Commission.

So it cannot just be down to land Commission and west of Ireland migration that Meath were sucessful in 1930s 40s 50s 60s and kildare werent As kildare also had substantial migration from the west. I cannot fullu explain why kildare declined really but when county has a hugely sucessful period , a county declines usually after a golden age of sucess. look at Meath after 80s and 90s , Cavan after 40s and 50s , Tipp hurling after 60s. Any county that had a golden age alwaywls dips in the years afterwards. But why kildare dipped and Meath improved its a considered a mystery. But I think there is a few obvious why Meath emerged.

Why Meath emerged in 30s 40s and 50s and 60s. Was down to couple of extraordinary men. Firstly Meath had one of greatest early coachs and trainers in the history of the game in Father Tully. Father Tully was the Sean Boylan of the 40s and 50s. While there was no managers in this period. There was a handful of great trainers and coachs. Kerry had Eamon Sullivan who was trainer from 1924 to 1962 winning 8 All Irelands for kilkenny. Fr Tommy Maher was the trainer of kilkenny from 1957 to 1975 winning 7 All Irelands . And then you had two other great football Coach at the time. Two of the most sucessful teams in the 40s 50s and 60s were Meath and Galway. Both had two of the best trainers coachs of all time. John" Tull" Dunne was coach/ trainer when Galway won the All Irelands in 1956 , 1964 , 1965, 1966 and he was on the sideline when Galway lost All Ireland finals in 1971 1973 and 1974.

The other great coach of the time was Meaths Fr Tully. The most sucessful trainer / coach, figure on the sideline in leinater football til kevin Heffernan took the Dublin job in 1974 and turned the trainer role into manager role. Fr Tully won as Meath trainer 3 All Irelands, 2 national league div 1 titles and 8 leinster titles from 1946 to 1967. The reason why Meath was sucesful and kildare is probaly down to two men Fr Tully and Sean Boylan. Tully is one of the greatest coachs in football ever and Boylan is one the greatest managers ever. Kildare didnt produce a trainer like Tully or a manager like Boylan. And thats probaly the difference. Its as simple as that.

Also Meath had two All time great footballers in 40s and 50s the king of Full Backs Paddy O Brien and Peter McDermont. These two players were hugely important at their peak. At his leak O Brien is considered by many to be greatest full back ever voted on the gaa team of the century in 1984. And McDermont was at his peak the best forward in Ireland. McDernont particularly was a massive influence on and off the field.
In the 60s Jack Quinn at his peak was considered the best footballer in Ireland. This was a time when Sean O Neill , Mick O Connell , Enda Colleran, Mattie McDonagh, James Mcarten and Sean Purcell were playing. Quinn most have been some player to be considered the best footballer in Ireland at his peak in that period.

So this myth that land Commision and influx of migrats is why Meath was sucessful and kildare werent. It doesnt hold up , as kildare also had huge migration from the west also. It was Meath teams of 80s and 90s and the kildare team of the 90s and current Dublin were young children of parents from western seaboard started winning All Irelands. Meath had two incredible gaa Men Fr Tully who built 2 different All Ireland teams and Sean Boylan who built 3 different All Ireland teams. And handful of truly great players like Paddy O Brien , Peter McDermont, Mick O Brien , Jack Quinn, Mattie Kerrigan and Pat Reynold snr but particularly Paddy O Brien , Peter McDermont and Jack Quinn. Usually when a team is sucessful you will find a great manager or trainer on the sideline and handful of great players on the pitch. That was reason why Meath won silverware from 1930 to 1970."
Excellent post Furlong. Even as a Kildare man I find your posts great to read.
My own post was of course designed to wind up Meath posters, I know meaths success isn't solely based on an influx of people as a result of the land commission even though it did have a massive impact on the teams Meath produced from 1960 onwards.
We too had many families move into the county from Galway, Mayo, Roscommon Kerry and Clare. In my own area, not too far from the Meath border, many of the farmers would be of Kerry stock. Around TImahoe, Staplestown, Coill Dubh many of the people are from Tipperary originally and came to work with Bord na Mona on the bogs from the 1950s onwards. It should come as no surprise therefore that hurling is as popular as football in these areas. Most if not all of these new arrivals were GAA people however Kildare have obviously not achieved anywhere near the same level of success as Meath and you would have to wonder why. I do remember in the 80s, there was a huge apathy towards the county team to the extent that management of minor teams would have difficutly getting enough lads to commit to a county squad. There was simply no desire to play for Kildare for lads from many clubs. Club football was the be all and end all for many in Kildare for a long long time. Things have changed now, we have hundreds of young lads vying for places on county teams year in year out at all ages.
Of course people from Kildare will never admit to it but deep down we are naturally envious of the success that Meath have had going back. It has been 21 years since Meath lifted Sam and to be perfectly honest, I think Meath are still a long long way off the top teams and I would have the current Kildare squad quite a bit ahead of the current Meath squad. That being said, Meath have gotten their house in order at underage in recent years and in my view, theres no reason why Meath cannot get back to the very top by 2030 or so. It's a huge footballing county, with a big and growing population with the resources to compete. Tradition counts for a lot and Meath have it in abundance. I'd be optimistic Kildare can get to the top too due to our large population and our underage structures which have been baring fruit for the last 8 or 9 years. We have produced better footballers in the last 10 years than in a long long time.
What odds on a Kildare Meath All Ireland Final in the next 15 to 20 years? It would be great to see especially for people living along the border in Clonard, Broadford, Longwood, Johnstownbridge, Enfield, Summerhill, Kilcock, Kilcloon and Maynooth.

11jm11 (Kildare) - Posts: 342 - 27/01/2020 22:20:06    2263068

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Thanks for the comments Royaldunne and lilywhite1, I appreciate it.

Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 968 - 27/01/2020 23:13:46    2263085

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There'll be more bite in Meath come championship time; but overall not much to put a spring in the step of either county's fans. Tyrone are fit enough and savvy enough to put up a decent showing in most games, but I just don't see spectators leaving grounds buzzing with optimism they way they were after eg watching the likes of Dooher producing a performance for the ages against was it Donegal a few years back when the crowd all rose to their feet and applauded when he was taken off a few minutes before the end. You saw certain performances even early on in the year and you knew that, barring injuries or a complete catastrophe, the team had an intensity and a will to win about them and had as good a chance as anyone of going all the way. Tyrone just are not at that level any more. Last year, I'd say we were one good forward away (saying nothing about selections), but this year we're missing 2-3 impact players / leaders.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 678 - 27/01/2020 23:15:29    2263086

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Replying To The_Fonz:  "Did Kildare not get to the Super 8 the same year??"
Ya, they got to the last 8 that year, same as Meath got to the last 8 last year. It's really irrating to see Kildare posters coming on to a forum involving Meath (& not Kildare) to try to slag Meath off for our performance in Division 1. They are in no position to do this based on their own record when in the same position.

bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 624 - 27/01/2020 23:33:34    2263088

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