Replying To Furlong1949:  "Thanks for the coments again Young_gael. We have good debates. And plenty respect on both sides. I wish I could write in the concise way you do. Always enjoy the measages. We are both proud Meathmen and are passionate about our county.
I am probaly more optimistic but this year and next year will tell us how good this Meath team. 2020 and 2021 are big years for this team. Will we yo you between the divisions or become a consistent div 1 team. Time will tell.

Just a few points I disagree with. Again in a respectful way , I dont like disagreeing with great Meath supporters like urself. But I do have a different opinion. I think the below is a little bit all over the place. Its a bit scattergun all over the place. Apologies for that.

Anyway regards everyone on the forum predicting Meath are going to be relegated. Firstly there is an anti Meath element to the forum.where anything remotely positive regards Meath is not welcome. While also this time last year I predicted Meath would be promoted but pretty no one on the forum else predicted Meath would be promoted. No one predicted Meath would get the super 8s on this forum last year. And from what I remeber last year the vast majority on the forum were predictibg Meath would get relegated to div 3..This was in the media also..Tomas O Se this time last year predicted Meath would be relegated to div 3.

No one knows whats is going to happen really. I felt a feeling in my gut in water we would get promoted last year and I feel the same now. I predicted 3 years ago on this forum.we would improve last year and make impact in year 4 or year 5. For me Meath( and I have seen this so many times in team buildning situation) are trying to break into the top 6 or 7 teams in the country. This is a slow process that take years of ups and downs of bad defeats at the start, then you have moral victories , hard luck loses , bad referee decisions , failing to get over the line , fading in the last 10 mins. This is where we are at. The question is will be breakthrough like teams have done in the past like Kevin Walsh did with Galway when he turned them into consistent div 1 / super 8 team or fall back like McGeeney with kildare at start of this decade

We are knocking on the door. Will we yo yo and fail to stay in div 1 for years or will we stay in div 1. For me we are going in the right direction , have made serious improvements and progress in the last year and half. And I belivee this will continue. Yes they were will be ups and downs. But I think we can do it.

Regards age profile , very few agree with me on this one. Players peak at different ages, but most average of All Ireland winning team is 27..And most sportspeople peak in mid 20s. I just feel and watching how they have imlroved in the last 12 months that class of 2012 ( minor 2012 finalists )many of them are starting to peak and improve as footballers eg Padraig Harnan, Seamus Lavin , Shane Gallagher , James McEntee , Shane McEntee , Cillian Sullivan , Paddy Kennelly , Barry Dardis are all improvig and along with the Wallaces, McGill , MCoy . They are a good age to get promoted. Colm.O Rourke always said you need must of ur team around age group 25 to 27. With a few young lads and few veterans. To be sucessful
Thats what we have currently..

Last year arouns this time kildare , Tipp , Fermanagh , Armagh , Cavan, Cork were all ahead of Meath. Meath lost badly to Cork , Tipp and Cavan in 2018. Meath were well ehind all those counties at the start of Last year. Then Meath surprisingly to everyone dramatically improved

Last year in 2019
1 Meath defeated Cork by 6 points and were much better team on the day.
2 Last year Meath defeated Tipp by 5 points and were the better team
3 Last year Meath defeated Armagh by 6 points and doninated the first half leading by 9 at half time
And yes Armagh had a good spell for 15 mins in second half, but Meath dominated last 15 mins and won comfoetably pulling up by 6 points. Meath were much better then Armagh when they played last year. And Armagh were focussed on the league. They were training hard for the league.
Armagh are one of the fittest teams in the country and were doing serious training under McGeeney who is a fitness fanatic.
4 Last year Meath defeated Fermanagh by 7 points and after first 15 mins dominated the game
5 Last year Meath defeated Clare twice last in one game by 5 points in Ennis and by 1 point in qualifiers. Meath have had four victories in 4 games over Clare. 2 of them were in Ennis and 3 of the victories were by big margins
6 Meath defeated kildare last year. It was by 1 point. But Meath completely dominated the second half where kildare couldnt get past the half way line Meath should have won by 8 or 9 points.

Meath reached leinster final , got promoted and are in div 1 after reached super 8. And played the best team in Ulster 3 times , the third team in the country , and Donegal struggled for long periods against Meath and Meath were very unlucky to knock All Ireland finalist out of the championship also and end of 2018 championship.

So currently seem that Meath are in div 1 and seen that Meath reached super 8s and seen that Meath defeated nearly all these teams by an average of 5 to 6 points last year and were much better team.when they played the above surely now currently Meath are ahead of those teams. Maybe next year kildare, Fermanagh , Cork , Armagh and Tipp will be ahead of Meath. If Atmagh and kildare are in div 1 this time next year and we are in div 2 next year then they are ahead of us.

But now here and now we are ahead because in the last 12 months we defeated them and were much better team in those games. When we played Cork, Armagh , kildare , Tipp and Fermanagh in last year we were the better team. Regards Clare yes it was tight tough game. But we have beaten Clare 4 times in 4 years , twice in Ennis, twice by double figures.

We might fall back next year. But this year we have progressed. Yes there is a group of counties arounf the same level who r trying to break into div 1 permantly. They are Cork , Cavan , Atmagh , kildare , Fermanagh , Tipp , Meath , Clare , laois in recent years. Every year a team breaks out of this group and trys to become a div 1 team. Kildare in 2017 where ahead of this group but have falling back last year. Cavan were ahead of this at the start of last year. They are now back in div 2. Cork are looking decent, did have good super 8 but they are in div 3 and if they dont get promoted they are in b championship.

Meath at the start of last year where behind Cork Kildare Tipp Fermanagh Armagh Cavan. This year we have jumped abead of them. Why ? We are in div 1 and reached super 8 and before people say we got easier then say Armagh. We defeated comphrehemsively last year a game Armagh were very focussed on. Meath comprehresivly beat Cork , Armagh , Tipp , Fermanagh and kildare last year. Maybe we will fall back down this year. And next year Armagh kildare Clare will be ahead of Meath. But we are div 1 now and its only fair to say Meath are ahead. When kildare were in div 1 in 2017 no one was saying Meath were ahead of them. When Cavan and Roscommon were div 1 last year it was fair to say Cavan and Roscommon were ahead of Armagh , Tipp , Cork , kildare , Fermanagh , Clare , laois.

But if Meath stay in div 1 then there is concrete evidenve undisputable evidence Meath are ahead of say Armagh. Time will tell.

Regards performance v top teams. Outside div 1 name a team that played as well against div 1 opposituon in 6 games in last 16 months as Meath. There is none. The reason Meath declined in last ten minutes was the other teams have more experience of big match day the other teams had player who had all.won provicial titles , all have played div 1 football and many of them have played in All Ireland finals.

Secondly Meath had issues with kickouts ..We have a new goalie this year. There was a press up and our midfield struggled. Because we had a wing back partnering Menton at midfield and we lacked big men around midfield. We lost midfield in last ten minutes. This year if we get in the same position we will have 4 big strong out and out midfielder to help Menton. They are Ronan Jones ( the best midfielder in the county ) , Brian Conlon ( one of the best young footballers in the county ) , Paddy kennelly ( last on the panel was performing man of the match performances at midfield ) and Thomas Murtagh ( 21 year old exciting young midfielder). We collasped at centre field in last ten min in Super 8 , there was. a push up , the Meath goalie had very few options. This year there is 3 or 4 new midfield option..Jones , Conlon and Kennelly and Ethan Devine give us 4 big men around the centre. This was an issue last year which came to fore in the last ten minutes.

The other factor that led to dip in last ten mins was the opposition bench . In the last ten minutes Donrgal bench came on and made a big difference and the Meath bench made no difference. The same for Mayo game , Andy Moran and Mayo bench made a huge difference in last ten minutes , the Meath bench made no difference. I believe that the Meath bench is much stronger then it was last August. Time will tell.

Also we ran ourselves into the ground. Last year was go go go. We didnt slow down the play , our game management was niave. But thats because we are an inexperiemced team. Hopefully that will improve. 3 games in super 8 and 7 games in this league whatevet happems will improve the teams game management as the more they play the top teams the more experience they get , this should benefit the team.

Lets look at performnces, yes Meath lost but a young team trying to make the breakthrough , a manager trying to bring a traditional county back up , this is all part of the process. Nearly every team in the history of gaelic football.if they are trying to break into top 6 or 7 it takes lots of moral victories and hard luck stories. Meath might not get there. But they are going in the right and correct direction.

1 Tyrone in 2018 The All Ireland finalist only for point in 6 and half mins of injury time kept the All Ireland finalist in the championship. Tyrone were lucky the ref gave 4 mins added time and yet Tyrone got 6 and half mins. And then in extra time of extra time Meath were denied an obvious free in front of the goals to tie the game. Yes Meath were helter skelter in the game. But overall Meath were excellent v All Ireland finalist. Evey time Tyrone got a bit ahead Meath came roaring back. And with 7 or 8 mins to go Meath were ahead and looking very likely winners. And were ahead well into injurty time. This was performance of passion , grit and determination by Meath.In many ways an old school traditional Meath championship performance. Meath went the full 76 mins with Tyrone and then went the full 20 mins full time with All Ireland finalist at the height of the championship. That was a serious performance.

2 Donegal in Ballybofey in the league 2019. Donegal have not lost in Ballybofey in near ten years in the league. But for 60 mins Meath controlled the game. The standard of footbalk was the best I saw from a Meath in the last 5 years. It was quality intelligent football. The half back line of J McEntre Keoghan and kane put on a exhibition of half back play. With 62 gone Meath were 4 points and were playing excellent football. A freak goal. The game turns and Donegal show their class. But so many Donegal people after the game told me they were very lucky to win. Meath were excellent in Ballybofey last year. Remeber kildare went to Ballybofey and lost by 15 points and the game was over at half time. Meath went to Ballybofey last year twice in league and championship and at the 60 min both games Meath were ahead and likely winners.

3 V Donegal in the league final 2019
Meath played quality long ball football in the first half. And used Newman excellently as a target man as Bryan McMahon ran riot on the 40 for Meath. Meath were 9 up aftet 20 mins playing direct quality fast football. Donegal came back into it. But Meath were 5 up at half time after finishing the half strong and Meath had goal disallowed which was allowed would have been enough for Meath to win. The second half Donegal got stronger and stronger becuase they are double Ulster champions and 3rd best team in the country. Again Donegal for long period struggled v Meath. Meath did play some quality kicking football in the first half.

4 Donegal Ballybofey in championship 2019. Donegal have been beaten once in Ballybofey in championship in last ten years. Yet Meath again really put it up to Donrgal for third time in a few months. Coming up to 60 min Meath were ahead and around the ground there was a sense Donegal were in trouble..Meath were getting stronger and stronger as Meath went toe to toe with double Ulster champion in their own backyard. Meath hit hard with good tackling defended well and played some good football. But the class of Donegal and Michael Murphy shone in the end. Donegal bench was much stronger then Meaths

5 Again v Mayo Up to 60 min Meath were ahead. Meath went toe to toe with Mayo for 60 mins. One of the best teams in the country in recent years and who have an excellent record in Croke Park recently. Mayo bench made the difference in the end. But really the margin at the end was not reflection of how well Meath played. Meaths inexperence told but again allot to be taken from this game with some good performances with players like Seamus lavin and Shane Gallagher improving and improving.

6 Kerry again for the 6th time in 6 games v the 4 best teams in the country Meath were ahead with 10 mins to go after playing some quality football. and causing huge problems for the best teams in the country. Campion scored a great goal and was excellent on the 40. While young Walsh at 18 and on his debut had the kerry full back line in tatters as he was causing huge problems.Meath tore into kerry again the passion the intensity of play was there but kerry class and experience told. But again for an upcoming team there was so much take from the performance.

I dont think the wide margin of defeat reflected the performances in super 8s. In around ten mins to go in 3 games Meath were ahead and it looked with ten mins to go in Ballybofey Donegal were in serious trouble. I was in the crowd with lots of Donegal friends they were worried coming up to 60th min. The same v Mayo with 10 mins to go , Meath had a chance and the same v kerry. But the three best teams in the country ahowed tbeir class and showed why they best teams in the country.

But I believe Meath can take huge heart from the super 8s. I think any team in Meaths position would also. And Meath were praised. kieran Donaghy was raving about how impressed he was by Meath in the super 8s. Oisin McConville also was very impressed with Meath in super 8s. Off the Ball were saying McEntee was manager of the year after Jim Galvin in how turned Meath around last year.

The big issue for me was midfield and the oppositions bench. I think both areas are stronger now then last August. Brian Menton / Brian Conlon midfield with Paddy Kennelly off the bench is a stronger midfield then last August when we had a half back at centre field and 20 year old corner back replacing him. Full Forward line v Tyrone will be probaly 13 Donal Lenihan 14 Shane Walsh 15 Thomas Reilly . And on the bench we will have Joey Wallace James Conlon Oisin O Brien Barry Dardis Sean Toibin Jack O Connor for the inside line. I believe we are stronger in that position..And as the league develops 13 Donal Lenihan 14 Shane Walsh 15 Joey Wallace full forward line will give us better options then last years and with options on the bench , what happenned v Dublin the malfunction we had in the forwards , wouldnt happen this year. As in total we have 7 new inside forwards on the panel and some of these players are the best forwards in Meath.

Thats what I think will keep us in div 1. If we dont stay I still believe with 10 games v div 1 oppposition in 12 months , 10 new players on the panel , talented young players , return of experienced some of the best footballers in Meath , players returning from injury that Meath will make a bigger impact in this years championship then last years.We will find out at the end of season. We will be able judge this Meath team better at the end of the championship. We just guessing til then. By the end of next season 2021 we will find out how good this team really is .

I predicted on this forum 3 years ago that Meath would make an impact in the years 2020 and 2021. Im sticking with that. I could be wrong..I cannot read the future but because of the manager, the players , the performances and a feeling in my gut and water, I think we can. .And while it would be so good for football and particularly leinster football for Meath to be a division 1 team. Its 15 or 16 years ago not since early 00s and late 90s that Dublin have faced consistent year after year div 1 opposition in leinster. leaving Dublin to one side no leinster team has reached div 1 league final in 15 years and leaving Dublin to one side no leinster team has won div 1 league in 21 years. That has to change."

Replying To lilywhite1:  "No disrespect to you furlong as I very much enjoy your analytical and well researched posts, but a one point win over Kildare in blizzard conditions in Navan last march is hardly a comprehensive win. I do acknowledge that Kildare slipped back last year while Meath moved forward. However I think that we will see (hoping) a different Kildare team this year, with the new manager Jac kO'Connor, returnees and the inclusion of a raft of young players who won the U20 All Ireland in 2018."

Replying To bobkarlgees:  "Just on that game in Navan last year.
I agree if Meath where to play Kildare tomorrow and if Meath won I would be dam glad of it. IMO it will more or less always be thus anytime Meath get a win over Kildare is good day. But Kildare really struggled last year and where there for the taking.
Meath struggled badly that snowy day in Navan, But this game was much more that just a league it was basically the game that sealed promotion for Meath. Meath should have won by ten points but where blessed to get a win. The nervs where clear to be seen Meath stood off Kildare for the first 15 20 and let Kidare do what they want.
Eventually in the second half we got to grips with Kildare, but we kicked easy score chance after easy score chance wide. With kildare creating little. It was Meaths stand out win last year, but close to Meaths worst performance.
So that game with conditions and what was at stake was probably not a true reflection where both teams are at the time. I agree Kildare should be in better shape this year with all the recent success from underage in recent years and with a new manager."

Replying To 11jm11:  "That was a right battle last year. Meath deserved their win but let's not forgot Kildare were 1-5 to 0-2 up after 20minutes and we then lost our best forward Ben McCormack to injury and our best defender o Grady to a black card. Anyway, I look forward to our next meeting, always a good game against the royals"

Replying To MillerX:  "Please, please will some Meath posters on here stop denigrating the Division 2 teams that we played last year. Year in year out all NFL teams in Division 2, 3 and 4 have very high dropout rates compare to Div 1 teams. And last year was no exception, Tipperary and Kildare to mention two that were very badly hit so please ponder a minute before rhyming off nonsense that we were away better. Cork were relegated but come championship time gave Kerry and Dublin, yes Dublin plenty of it and fared far better against Dublin than we did, so show some respect and get both of your feet firmly on the ground and don't bridle yourselves and to an extent the team by outrageous statements even about the last round of the league even before we play the first round.
Yes we have improved, but by how much? Time, my optimistic friends, time will tell. But life rarely runs as planned otherwise we would have no sport as everything would be predictable."

Replying To MillerX:  "Please, please will some Meath posters on here stop denigrating the Division 2 teams that we played last year. Year in year out all NFL teams in Division 2, 3 and 4 have very high dropout rates compare to Div 1 teams. And last year was no exception, Tipperary and Kildare to mention two that were very badly hit so please ponder a minute before rhyming off nonsense that we were away better. Cork were relegated but come championship time gave Kerry and Dublin, yes Dublin plenty of it and fared far better against Dublin than we did, so show some respect and get both of your feet firmly on the ground and don't bridle yourselves and to an extent the team by outrageous statements even about the last round of the league even before we play the first round.
Yes we have improved, but by how much? Time, my optimistic friends, time will tell. But life rarely runs as planned otherwise we would have no sport as everything would be predictable."

Replying To Furlong1949:  "Thats very unfair Im not putting down other counties. Im just stating we won promotion from div 2 and played consistently well throughout the campaign. The same way Cavan won promotion from div 2 in 2018 and played consistently well throughout the campaign. The same way Kildare and Glway won promotion from div 2 in 2018 and played consistently well throughout the campaign. Meath and Donegal were the best teams last spring , theres nothing wrong in saying that. Regards Cok, Cork shouldnt be div 3, or div 2 , Cork with underage sucess and talent Cork have, Cork should be in top 4 or 5 teams in the country. Cork in div 3 are underachieving on a grand scale. Cork played well in Super 8, because thats where Cork should be.

The point about high dropout rates is true. But the couhty with the highest dropout in the last few years is not the counties you picked out, kildare or Tippearey its Meath. You said

" Tipperary and Kildare to mention two that were very badly hit so please ponder a minute before rhyming off nonsense that we were away better"

1 But BUT BUT Meath lost more players last year then any county in div 2. McEntee had to draft 11 debutants on to the Meath panel last year , including 7 under 20 players were drafted on to the Meath panel last spring because the number were that high eg Conlon, Campion, Devine, D McGovern, T McGovern, Scully, Reilly. In total 11 players were drafted on to the Meath panel last spring players like Ross and Ronan Ryan and Niall Kane and others who had never ever played for Meath before, because there was a high level of players not returning in 2019. Because there was high dropout from the Meath panel , players like Donal Leniihan, Eamon Wallace, Joey Wallace , Paddy Kennelly, Brian Conlon just to name a few.

2 What county had the highhest droput numbers from their panel in div 2 last year . Yes it was Meath and the highest number of players not returning in div 2. And it was the same pretty much the year beforehand, as Meath had one the highest rates on non returning players in the country. Here are numbers for 2018

Below r the number of players who played in the league and championship last year 2017 for their county but did not resurface in 2018 for different reasons. These are the numbers for all div 1 and div 2 teams in 2018. Look how many Meath players dropped out did not return in 2018,

Div 2 2018

Cork 18 players
Meath 16 players
louth 14 players
Down 12 players
Roscommon 12 players
Kerry 11 players
Laois 11 players
Clare 10 players
Cavan 10 players
Galway 10 players
Tippearey 9 players
kildare 9 players
Dublin 6 players
Donegal 6 players
Mayo 6 players
Monaghan 5 players
Tyrone 4 players

As you can see Tippearey and kildare had 9 players not return in 2018, which is high. But Meaths was double at 16. One of the highest in the country and only Cork had a higher turnoever of players in top 2 divs then Meath. In the last 3 years on average Meath have had one the highest turnover of player in the country, well into the double figures. This year teams like Cavan, longford, Roscommon and Tippearey and so many teams lost players again in div 2 3 and 4. But Meath in div 1 have zero players leaving and group of 7 or 8 returning. But in the last 3 years every year counties like Meath, Cork, Derry, Down, Offaly were losing massive amounts of players every year. So when you talk about Tipp and kildare being badly hit by players not returning last year, yes this was true but Meath were much worse , It was Meath that was one of the counties with the highest number of players dropping consistently last year and in the last few years. You said kildare and Tipp were badly hit . Well Meath were hit much worse. On the Meath forum on Hogan Stand, every week there was talk about this player not playing, this player not returning for the last 2 to 3 years. And if Meath return to div 2 next year again Meath will lose a high number of players again,

Anyway here are the number for non returnee players in 2018. Studies were done by the ESRI and Irsh Independent in this area. As you can see Meath had the 4th highest county of players not returning, the two couties you mentioned in Tipp and kildare rate was one of the lowest in the country in the four divsions.

Derry 19 players
Cork 18 players
Wexford 17 players
Meath 16 players
Offaly 16 players
Wicklow 15 players
Antrim 14 players
London 14 players
louth 14 players
Leitrim 13 players
Westmeath 13 players
Sligo 13 players
longford 12 players
Down 12 players
Roscommon 12 players
limerick 12 players
Kerry 11 players
Laois 11 players
Clare 10 players
Cavan 10 players
Galway 10 players
kildare 9 players
Tippearey 9 players
Dublin 6 players
Donegal 6 players
Mayo 6 players
Monaghan 5 players
Tyrone 4 players

Of the 1040 players nationwide who saw action in the league or championship in 2017, 366 did not play in 2018."

Replying To oakleafersir:  "Tyrone will be sitting in their high horse going into this match and deservedly so after winning the McKenna cup. They will want to start this league campaign with a win obviously but Meath aren't push overs, don't get me wrong I see Meath relegated this year but not as convincingly as others say. See both teams getting stuck in from the first blow of the whistle but Tyrone will come out in the end due to their fitness and bench. Ronan O'Neill is the player to watch this year from Tyrone as the lad has a point to prove.
Tyrone by 5"

Replying To oakleafersir:  "Tyrone will be sitting in their high horse going into this match and deservedly so after winning the McKenna cup. They will want to start this league campaign with a win obviously but Meath aren't push overs, don't get me wrong I see Meath relegated this year but not as convincingly as others say. See both teams getting stuck in from the first blow of the whistle but Tyrone will come out in the end due to their fitness and bench. Ronan O'Neill is the player to watch this year from Tyrone as the lad has a point to prove.
Tyrone by 5"

Replying To MillerX:  "Please, please will some Meath posters on here stop denigrating the Division 2 teams that we played last year. Year in year out all NFL teams in Division 2, 3 and 4 have very high dropout rates compare to Div 1 teams. And last year was no exception, Tipperary and Kildare to mention two that were very badly hit so please ponder a minute before rhyming off nonsense that we were away better. Cork were relegated but come championship time gave Kerry and Dublin, yes Dublin plenty of it and fared far better against Dublin than we did, so show some respect and get both of your feet firmly on the ground and don't bridle yourselves and to an extent the team by outrageous statements even about the last round of the league even before we play the first round.
Yes we have improved, but by how much? Time, my optimistic friends, time will tell. But life rarely runs as planned otherwise we would have no sport as everything would be predictable."

Replying To seadog54:  "Its just a case of poster using statistics in an attempt to prove a point (same point again and again). Many of the teams we played in Div 2 of league had a vastly changed lineup when championship came around. Cork/Armagh to mention two. So I find it difficult to access how good we really were, Meath remained more or less unchanged, which cost us dearly in super 8s. All the constant waffle about how good we might be is just that, waffle. Some posters have called these meandering essays analysis I beg to differ. Give the lads a chance, we havent kicked a ball yet. Time enough for real analysis when game has been played."

Replying To 11jm11:  "Great work Furlong. You put more work in to your posts than the majority of so called journalists put into their articles"

Replying To 11jm11:  "Great work Furlong. You put more work in to your posts than the majority of so called journalists put into their articles"