National Forum

In Lieu Of The Advanced Mark

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I, like many others, am not a fan of the Advanced Mark. It rewards a team for simply catching the ball, possibly with a close range point to follow, and distorts the game.
In lieu of the "reward" and to put more kick back in the game - why not "require" certain inter-zone kicks ?
I would require a team's defence to kick the ball - optionally, from Behind Own 45 to the Midfield Zone (between two 65s) or beyond, and mandatorily, from Behind Own 65 to Beyond Their 65.
Leaving the game otherwise the same (incl unlimited handpass sequences), I think this new rule would freshen up the spectacle.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 16/12/2019 14:04:08    2255146

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Replying To omahant:  "I, like many others, am not a fan of the Advanced Mark. It rewards a team for simply catching the ball, possibly with a close range point to follow, and distorts the game.
In lieu of the "reward" and to put more kick back in the game - why not "require" certain inter-zone kicks ?
I would require a team's defence to kick the ball - optionally, from Behind Own 45 to the Midfield Zone (between two 65s) or beyond, and mandatorily, from Behind Own 65 to Beyond Their 65.
Leaving the game otherwise the same (incl unlimited handpass sequences), I think this new rule would freshen up the spectacle."
I don't like it.

I'll be honest I don't really like rules that are trying to force how teams play into some style.

When there's 2 top teams playing and they're evenly enough matched then there's nothing wrong with the rules of the game.

There were plenty of good football matches this year.

At club level in Meath, I find the games exciting still.

Can teams play really dull, boring, conservative football. Yes absolutely.

I think the main issue is with those team's management rather than the rules.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4201 - 16/12/2019 17:49:23    2255186

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But would engineering away from.those dull games be worth doing ? - and it would add more kicking to those great games too.
I don't get to see many games - but I agree, I enjoyed both the drawn and replayed AI Final 2019.
I was bored with the drawn Dubs/Mayo Final a few years ago.
Take soccer - would you like a little higher average scoring - should it be engineered ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 17/12/2019 03:04:51    2255258

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I don't like it.

I'll be honest I don't really like rules that are trying to force how teams play into some style.

When there's 2 top teams playing and they're evenly enough matched then there's nothing wrong with the rules of the game.

There were plenty of good football matches this year.

At club level in Meath, I find the games exciting still.

Can teams play really dull, boring, conservative football. Yes absolutely.

I think the main issue is with those team's management rather than the rules."
you always speak a lot of sense whammo, im with you on this one 100%

boman11 (Antrim) - Posts: 237 - 17/12/2019 14:17:57    2255348

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The effect of the mark on the club game will be shocking. Every team will just hoof it to the big man or the IC star and no one will be scoring from play

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 17/12/2019 16:56:08    2255381

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Replying To boman11:  "you always speak a lot of sense whammo, im with you on this one 100%"
Well I try to think for myself rather than regurgitate the sort of rubbish you'd hear down the pub or on the Sunday game.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4201 - 17/12/2019 17:44:32    2255394

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It wasnt that bad in the league, it promotes/rewards quick ball in, adds another dimension to attacks, more kicking.
It could lead to more teams playing sweepers, more packed defences, 15secs to kick is a bit long.
In the club game it will add bit more excitement, clubs mostly struggle with attacking play and now this is a new tactic and could be beneficial to alot..all teams can find a big lad to play full forward now but he has to be able too catch and more importantly now kick a score, there will be alot of pressure on them.
It might break up the pattern of the running game which is pretty much gone into every team now

tommy132 (Mayo) - Posts: 600 - 17/12/2019 19:07:06    2255401

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Very few teams play with a recognisable No 3 anymore. Drew Wylie is amongst the only true fullbacks who could have played the traditional FB game - Tyrone play Colm Cavanagh in the sweeper role, but he's not expected to man-mark. The new mark is designed to make team managements pay attention to something other than mobility, both up front and in defence. If one of the top teams manages to secure a significant advantage due to the rule then others will follow. I don't see the Dubs being overly motivated, since the mobile game has been serving them very well. Kerry have a traditional liking for big target-men, so it's no surprise that they explored it thoroughly during the league last year... it looks tailor-made for someone like David Clifford to exploit given his physique and shooting ability. Any team fielding an immobile giraffe will probably find doing so exploited, as his marker will get a lot of opportunity to run away from him, both with and without the ball. If Kerry (or someone else) stops the Dubs turning 5 into 6 in 2020 in part due to this change, it'll be regarded as well justified by people under pressure from the Dubs success. My own instinct is against it, but I'll wait to see it in a championship context before arriving at a verdict.

Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2521 - 18/12/2019 18:09:33    2255517

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Replying To tommy132:  "It wasnt that bad in the league, it promotes/rewards quick ball in, adds another dimension to attacks, more kicking.
It could lead to more teams playing sweepers, more packed defences, 15secs to kick is a bit long.
In the club game it will add bit more excitement, clubs mostly struggle with attacking play and now this is a new tactic and could be beneficial to alot..all teams can find a big lad to play full forward now but he has to be able too catch and more importantly now kick a score, there will be alot of pressure on them.
It might break up the pattern of the running game which is pretty much gone into every team now"
It was awful in the league, a forward running away from goal catches a ball while skidding on his knees and he gets a free shot on goal for it? Utter nonsense.

Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 382 - 19/12/2019 16:37:48    2255610

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Any opinion on MY defensive kick idea - required, but without an award ?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 21/12/2019 02:14:45    2255736

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Replying To omahant:  "Any opinion on MY defensive kick idea - required, but without an award ?"
I don't like it.

I don't think it'd be required and I don't think it'd be good for the game.

It seems like a small change but it'd completely destroy the flow of the game.

No team would try to win the ball up the field. They'd keep men back around the 65 to put pressure on the kick and they'd also have players defending the zone where the kick will be played into. Screeners at the front of the 65 to stop the short pass and spoilers to stop high ball.

It'd be awful for attacking play. Even if a player wins the ball he's going to be surrounded by defenders.

The game would just be completely disjointed.

I also just think the game is naturally evolving and in a few years time deep defending is going to be gone. Teams have to have strategies to counter the keep ball tactic that Dublin have perfected. Defending is going to continue to become more progressive over the next fees years.

Pressing higher will return. Kicking games will become more useful again as space opens up in behind.

The games are already improving over the last season or 2. Who knows what Dublin are going to be like under new management. There's a chance that the All Ireland could be more competitive again this year.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4201 - 21/12/2019 11:01:23    2255764

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Replying To Gavvygavgav:  "It was awful in the league, a forward running away from goal catches a ball while skidding on his knees and he gets a free shot on goal for it? Utter nonsense."
Agree 100% with this lad running out to the side line catches a ball in the chest and gets a free shot at the post!!! Most ridiculous rule that has been implemented. Who would want to be a defender?

jacktheDub (Dublin) - Posts: 944 - 21/12/2019 11:29:39    2255767

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I don't like it.

I don't think it'd be required and I don't think it'd be good for the game.

It seems like a small change but it'd completely destroy the flow of the game.

No team would try to win the ball up the field. They'd keep men back around the 65 to put pressure on the kick and they'd also have players defending the zone where the kick will be played into. Screeners at the front of the 65 to stop the short pass and spoilers to stop high ball.

It'd be awful for attacking play. Even if a player wins the ball he's going to be surrounded by defenders.

The game would just be completely disjointed.

I also just think the game is naturally evolving and in a few years time deep defending is going to be gone. Teams have to have strategies to counter the keep ball tactic that Dublin have perfected. Defending is going to continue to become more progressive over the next fees years.

Pressing higher will return. Kicking games will become more useful again as space opens up in behind.

The games are already improving over the last season or 2. Who knows what Dublin are going to be like under new management. There's a chance that the All Ireland could be more competitive again this year."
Teams would have to balance attack and defence - to finesse, they would have to have various attacking player targets upfield to avoid the opposition swarming around one or two attackers - I could see teams adopting to zonal attack/defence, more man-to-man, taking up traditional field poisitions.
There wouldn't be start/stop like the AFL - teams would adjust to the modest kick requirement - and there is that uncertainty that teams would kick two lines from behind Own 45 or 65.
This is probably better than Brolly's attacking exclusion zone.
Like anything else - it would have to be tested to see how it works - and see if you or I are proved right.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 2570 - 21/12/2019 13:12:13    2255775

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Replying To omahant:  "Teams would have to balance attack and defence - to finesse, they would have to have various attacking player targets upfield to avoid the opposition swarming around one or two attackers - I could see teams adopting to zonal attack/defence, more man-to-man, taking up traditional field poisitions.
There wouldn't be start/stop like the AFL - teams would adjust to the modest kick requirement - and there is that uncertainty that teams would kick two lines from behind Own 45 or 65.
This is probably better than Brolly's attacking exclusion zone.
Like anything else - it would have to be tested to see how it works - and see if you or I are proved right."
I hate Brolly's attacking exclusion zone idea too.

Those ideas are just completely changing the shape of the game and I honestly don't think that's necessary or desirable.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4201 - 21/12/2019 15:24:58    2255800

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The football championship this year was very good. It was crowned by what I feel was the greatest senior All Ireland final either hurling or football that I have ever seen . Earlier this year John Horan's big idea was to stop the back pass to the goalkeeper . Subsequent to the championship the hierarchy of the GAA saw fit to introduce this appalling idea of the advanced mark. You couldn't make this stuff up.. Both John Horan and the senior administrators of the GAA are profoundly dispiriting . Leave our great game of football alone !!!!!!

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 21/12/2019 18:07:07    2255814

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Bit of irony calling it an advanced mark, anything but in my opinion.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 21/12/2019 18:57:11    2255819

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Replying To tommy132:  "It wasnt that bad in the league, it promotes/rewards quick ball in, adds another dimension to attacks, more kicking.
It could lead to more teams playing sweepers, more packed defences, 15secs to kick is a bit long.
In the club game it will add bit more excitement, clubs mostly struggle with attacking play and now this is a new tactic and could be beneficial to alot..all teams can find a big lad to play full forward now but he has to be able too catch and more importantly now kick a score, there will be alot of pressure on them.
It might break up the pattern of the running game which is pretty much gone into every team now"
I am prepared to give it a chance first, in relation to seconds to kick, it's better than over a minute waiting for a goalkeeper to kick a Free!!!

totalrecall (Leitrim) - Posts: 912 - 21/12/2019 20:18:42    2255832

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The change I'd like to see. From once the ball is played accross the halfway line it can't get passed back accross the team's 45. The same thing for when the ball is played accross the attacking 45 it can't get played back over the halfway line. This helps stop keep ball, otherwise you'll have to put in a shot clock, which I don't like. Just an idea.

cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 454 - 30/12/2019 14:39:02    2256515

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Replying To cluichethar:  "The change I'd like to see. From once the ball is played accross the halfway line it can't get passed back accross the team's 45. The same thing for when the ball is played accross the attacking 45 it can't get played back over the halfway line. This helps stop keep ball, otherwise you'll have to put in a shot clock, which I don't like. Just an idea."
This will only encourage the blanket defence

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 30/12/2019 16:48:47    2256532

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Replying To cluichethar:  "The change I'd like to see. From once the ball is played accross the halfway line it can't get passed back accross the team's 45. The same thing for when the ball is played accross the attacking 45 it can't get played back over the halfway line. This helps stop keep ball, otherwise you'll have to put in a shot clock, which I don't like. Just an idea."
That prevents teams from falling back to rebuild an attack.

Hawkeye9212 (Donegal) - Posts: 266 - 30/12/2019 18:27:15    2256549

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