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Yes I believe there are lads off the panel who could have made a big difference on Saturday. Corks bench had more pace and threat.
That said, Lohan is getting the max out of the group but as he admitted himself post game, we need to get better, esp up front where our shooting is not up to standard and we need more support for Kelly. You need at least 2 top class forwards who can score a lot. Maybe 3. Also, im not sure Conlan at 6 is working. For the last goal, he was caught in middle of nowhere and his legs were gone. He should be at 14 causing trouble.
Duggan, SOD, Morey, Cunningham, Shanahan coupled with the likes of Cian Galvin, Donnellan, Meehan, Rodgers and maybe a couple more young lads can make us stronger.
We never really replaced Conor McGrath though. He was a lethal forward from 2011 to 17. Its a real shame he is gone now. Diarmuid Cahill and Conor Hegarty have a lot of hurling but will need time.
As posters above have said, Lohan deserves more time and also full support form the board. Id like to see more ex players getting involved now. Donal Maloney is back with the u15s I hear. That is good if true.
Clareman (Clare) - Posts: 1056 - 26/07/2021 10:13:23
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Replying To clooney: "I rarely understand too to tactic of conceding the puck put especially as you point out if you have a decent half back line which we do.
Brian Lohan deserves respect for what he has done but was way too slow in making some changes no matter what anyone says Aron Shanagher was very poor on Saturday he dosent work anywhere near enough in trying to make breaks or creating space he should have been replaced before half time Gary Cooney deserved a good run out he was immediately into the action and could have goaled.
The changes Clare made in putting Taylor to MF and McCarthy to FF diden't appear to work as both players well well down on their display as half forwards V Wexford.
Jack Browne should have come on a lot earlier for Colm Galvin who was also out of position.
David Fitzgerald was named in subs but wasent used his pace would have been very useful last year he was really going well in the forwards.
Too many lads left panel that could have made a difference Morey Cunningham Podge Jamie Shanahan also" This may seem a bit critical, but i think cooney should rather than could have scored. Catching the ball then striking from a stationary position with the defender closing made the block easier for downey. I know its easy to be clever watching on and in hindsight but a lower shot wouldve also been more difficult to block, for both cooney and kelly's shots. Definitely wouldn't be critical of kelly, he did everything so right bar stick it in the net.
Morey, Cunningham and podge couldve all been decent bench options. A fit jamie shanahan would be ideal for a modern day number 6, but unfortunately injuries have held him back massively in the last 4 or 5 years.
hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1941 - 26/07/2021 11:01:32
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Replying To Clareman: "Yes I believe there are lads off the panel who could have made a big difference on Saturday. Corks bench had more pace and threat.
That said, Lohan is getting the max out of the group but as he admitted himself post game, we need to get better, esp up front where our shooting is not up to standard and we need more support for Kelly. You need at least 2 top class forwards who can score a lot. Maybe 3. Also, im not sure Conlan at 6 is working. For the last goal, he was caught in middle of nowhere and his legs were gone. He should be at 14 causing trouble.
Duggan, SOD, Morey, Cunningham, Shanahan coupled with the likes of Cian Galvin, Donnellan, Meehan, Rodgers and maybe a couple more young lads can make us stronger.
We never really replaced Conor McGrath though. He was a lethal forward from 2011 to 17. Its a real shame he is gone now. Diarmuid Cahill and Conor Hegarty have a lot of hurling but will need time.
As posters above have said, Lohan deserves more time and also full support form the board. Id like to see more ex players getting involved now. Donal Maloney is back with the u15s I hear. That is good if true." Thats a fair lot of talent that could make big difference if they ever become available I hope Brian is given another year at least if he wants it and could develope a few of the young lads you mentioned there.
IMO if they are good enough they should be brought into senior panel Cork in 70s brought in lads like the Cashmans & McCurtin in the early 20s and they were some of best hurlers of their generation so if they are good enough bring them on.
The improvement Cathal Malone has made should serve as an inspiration to any player he is now after TK our best player
Conor Cleary has got a bit of negative reaction as well but has had a fantastic season
I also think that John Conlon should be 14 he has done his best but he is still one of the best forwards around Jack Browne would have done a fair job at 6 or Fitzgerald.
clooney (Clare) - Posts: 984 - 26/07/2021 11:25:26
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Replying To clooney: "Thats a fair lot of talent that could make big difference if they ever become available I hope Brian is given another year at least if he wants it and could develope a few of the young lads you mentioned there.
IMO if they are good enough they should be brought into senior panel Cork in 70s brought in lads like the Cashmans & McCurtin in the early 20s and they were some of best hurlers of their generation so if they are good enough bring them on.
The improvement Cathal Malone has made should serve as an inspiration to any player he is now after TK our best player
Conor Cleary has got a bit of negative reaction as well but has had a fantastic season
I also think that John Conlon should be 14 he has done his best but he is still one of the best forwards around Jack Browne would have done a fair job at 6 or Fitzgerald." Conlon will be 33 for next year's championship, with everyone including ourselves playing 2 inside i dont think conlon would have the pace for it to be in there. Plus i dont think him and shanagher would be a good combination inside together either. And i have to add anyone who puts 3 inside will get destroyed by the bigger teams!
Center back is one position in modern hurling where you dont actually need a huge amount of pace. Its all to do with positional sense, covering and use of the ball. I think giving up on conlon now and trying to showhorn someone else in there would be a backward step next year.
Shanagher didnt have his best day yesterday but he has so much potential we need to work with him now as out focal point inside not give up on him.
hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1941 - 26/07/2021 12:55:55
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Our best option for 6 in my opinion is Jamie Shanahan but I dont think he is going to be playing inter county anymore.
I take your point Hexpert on Conlan not having the legs for 14 but there are different ways to play that role. Tipp leave Callanan on the edge of the square, he doest move much, but the 2 beside him drop off and do a lot of running. It think its an option for Clare to look at it. Maybe John can grow into the position. I hope Clonlara play him at 6 if that is the case as the more games he plays the better.
Clareman (Clare) - Posts: 1056 - 26/07/2021 13:31:12
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Replying To Clareman: "Our best option for 6 in my opinion is Jamie Shanahan but I dont think he is going to be playing inter county anymore.
I take your point Hexpert on Conlan not having the legs for 14 but there are different ways to play that role. Tipp leave Callanan on the edge of the square, he doest move much, but the 2 beside him drop off and do a lot of running. It think its an option for Clare to look at it. Maybe John can grow into the position. I hope Clonlara play him at 6 if that is the case as the more games he plays the better." For me Shanagher is hugely over rated. Bear in mind he was marking Corks third choice fullback on Saturday and made no Impression. What was wrong with bringing on Fitzpatrick moving McInerney to 6 and moving Conlon up as a target man. Legs or not Conlon one on one with Downey would cause a lot of panic on Cork bench. I know everyone wants Lohan to stay on and that's probably the right call but for me his mistakes some of which were so obvious cost Clare the game. Allowing Cork to go short on puck outs is a miscalculation that no other manager will make.
welpastit (Limerick) - Posts: 740 - 26/07/2021 13:55:56
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Replying To Clareman: "Our best option for 6 in my opinion is Jamie Shanahan but I dont think he is going to be playing inter county anymore.
I take your point Hexpert on Conlan not having the legs for 14 but there are different ways to play that role. Tipp leave Callanan on the edge of the square, he doest move much, but the 2 beside him drop off and do a lot of running. It think its an option for Clare to look at it. Maybe John can grow into the position. I hope Clonlara play him at 6 if that is the case as the more games he plays the better." I agree, I think Shanahan could have been our number 6. But not now, he hasnt played top level hurling in a number of years. Due to the injuries he has had I dont think his body would be able for that level of commitment and training, so for his own sake he's probably better off just focusing on his club.
I do agree that ideally we would need Conlon playing at 6 for his club this year, but that remains to be seen. Clonlara's team selections from year to year is anything but predictable.
hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1941 - 26/07/2021 14:25:17
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Replying To welpastit: "For me Shanagher is hugely over rated. Bear in mind he was marking Corks third choice fullback on Saturday and made no Impression. What was wrong with bringing on Fitzpatrick moving McInerney to 6 and moving Conlon up as a target man. Legs or not Conlon one on one with Downey would cause a lot of panic on Cork bench. I know everyone wants Lohan to stay on and that's probably the right call but for me his mistakes some of which were so obvious cost Clare the game. Allowing Cork to go short on puck outs is a miscalculation that no other manager will make." Nonsense, nonsense and more nonsense
hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1941 - 26/07/2021 14:37:36
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I do think its fair to say Shanagher has not improved as a hurler. He still cannot hit off his right side and gets hooked too easy. He has work to do. I think maybe an impact player for him if im honest. He is a serious weapon but maybe from bench. Just my opinion.
In a perfect world the Clare front 6 for me are McCarthy, Reidy, Duggan, Conlan SOD and Kelly free to go where he wants. Malone and Galvin midfield. Colm will be better next year.
On the puckouts, I think Clare have to drop off to flood the middle which allows them to sit deep. However, they over do it at times and their shooting becomes ragged. I would have pushed up on Cork a lot more at the start. They only have Harnedy as a ball winner and it might have stopped them starting well. Its all easy to say now though post game.
One thing I will say is that Lohan and his team seem to learn from their mistakes. The team is better balanced than last eyar, we are more solid in the fb line, we work harder and we work more as a team. Quilligan bar one error has had a great year in goals. Id back them to improve the team again next year. We need to sort out half back line tho. Ryan was brilliant but 6 and 7 still need to nailed down.
Clareman (Clare) - Posts: 1056 - 26/07/2021 15:49:51
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Obviously we can only use what we have and i think lohan is doing a great job in getting the best out or the group. However i think next year we are going to need q lot more out of some of our bigger names, colm galvin and david mcinerney in particular. Next year it will be 9 years since 2013. They are now becoming the elder states men of the team and we need them to deliver on that as neither has been as consistent as we may have liked over the years. The reason we expect so much from them is because we know they have the talent to be top players. With o'donnell back next year and shangher hopefully taking a step forward i would be optimistic.
Diarmuid ryan and aidan mccarthy will also be another year older and i think they can become 2 of the best players in the country over the next few years.
We do need a few small tweaks, maybe one change in defense and one or 2 in attack to ensure we have the right balance up there.
Peter Duggan has been mentioned a lot in recent days. He was a class player in 2018, after being on the panel for 5 years he finally got to the level and established himself. But as i said the other day, next year will be 4 years since 2018 and after being in Australia for 3 years. Even if he does come back, people need to lower their expectations considerably. Hopefully if he does come back he can have some sort of impact.
hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1941 - 27/07/2021 09:37:03
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Replying To hurlingexpert: "Obviously we can only use what we have and i think lohan is doing a great job in getting the best out or the group. However i think next year we are going to need q lot more out of some of our bigger names, colm galvin and david mcinerney in particular. Next year it will be 9 years since 2013. They are now becoming the elder states men of the team and we need them to deliver on that as neither has been as consistent as we may have liked over the years. The reason we expect so much from them is because we know they have the talent to be top players. With o'donnell back next year and shangher hopefully taking a step forward i would be optimistic.
Diarmuid ryan and aidan mccarthy will also be another year older and i think they can become 2 of the best players in the country over the next few years.
We do need a few small tweaks, maybe one change in defense and one or 2 in attack to ensure we have the right balance up there.
Peter Duggan has been mentioned a lot in recent days. He was a class player in 2018, after being on the panel for 5 years he finally got to the level and established himself. But as i said the other day, next year will be 4 years since 2018 and after being in Australia for 3 years. Even if he does come back, people need to lower their expectations considerably. Hopefully if he does come back he can have some sort of impact." A lot of great hurlers ended their career without an All Ireland medal but it would be an absolute shame if Tony Kelly ends his career with only 1 medal.
He is an absolute gem beautiful balanced hurler who takes so much punishment being pulled & dragged stopped from making runs he never lashes out only for him last year we would have being in dire straights.
Its an absolute shame that so many fine hurlers have decided to leave panel that he dosen't get the help needed.
Maybe its time we stopped thinking how much difference Peter Duggan might make and instead focus on how much more improvement Ryan Taylor can make
clooney (Clare) - Posts: 984 - 27/07/2021 11:17:25
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Replying To clooney: "A lot of great hurlers ended their career without an All Ireland medal but it would be an absolute shame if Tony Kelly ends his career with only 1 medal.
He is an absolute gem beautiful balanced hurler who takes so much punishment being pulled & dragged stopped from making runs he never lashes out only for him last year we would have being in dire straights.
Its an absolute shame that so many fine hurlers have decided to leave panel that he dosen't get the help needed.
Maybe its time we stopped thinking how much difference Peter Duggan might make and instead focus on how much more improvement Ryan Taylor can make" Its impossible to say for sure. But do you think the fact that some have left the panel in recent years may be that they felt it wasnt worth the further commitment for years when they have already won an all ireland? I mean like for a non traditional top 3 county like ourselves, winning one all ireland in a career is a great achievement. Then maybe the hunger for more isnt quiet there like it would be for a tipp, cork or kk player. Particularly for lads who are not starters and are on the fringes. They might think to themselves whats the point hanging around when i already have an all ireland medal.
I have no doubt that's not the mentality of the likes of Kelly, but a lot of other maybe would be of that mindset.
hurlingexpert (Clare) - Posts: 1941 - 27/07/2021 21:13:14
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Replying To clooney: "A lot of great hurlers ended their career without an All Ireland medal but it would be an absolute shame if Tony Kelly ends his career with only 1 medal.
He is an absolute gem beautiful balanced hurler who takes so much punishment being pulled & dragged stopped from making runs he never lashes out only for him last year we would have being in dire straights.
Its an absolute shame that so many fine hurlers have decided to leave panel that he dosen't get the help needed.
Maybe its time we stopped thinking how much difference Peter Duggan might make and instead focus on how much more improvement Ryan Taylor can make" Tony Kelly is the best player I've ever seen play. Vision like Joe Canning. Skill like DJ Carey. Engine like TJ Reid. Takes scores like Shefflin. And a bit of steel mixed in too. Blocks and tackles in his own 21. He might win another all Ireland he has a few good years left. A year being lucky with the draw and injuries could see you win another All Ireland. You have some big young lads coming through who have pace and can hurl. Not sure the return to the round Robin will help you but you can beat anyone on your day.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15639 - 27/07/2021 21:29:15
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Replying To Viking66: "Tony Kelly is the best player I've ever seen play. Vision like Joe Canning. Skill like DJ Carey. Engine like TJ Reid. Takes scores like Shefflin. And a bit of steel mixed in too. Blocks and tackles in his own 21. He might win another all Ireland he has a few good years left. A year being lucky with the draw and injuries could see you win another All Ireland. You have some big young lads coming through who have pace and can hurl. Not sure the return to the round Robin will help you but you can beat anyone on your day." I think that is a fair point re the round robin. Whilst I am in favour of it in terms of it giving every team 4 or 5 games guaranteed a year, and also games for places like Ennis, Wexford, Waterford and Salthill, it does punish the smaller squads. In 2018 we had a deeper squad and were able to make most out of it. by 2019, 3 or 4 of lads had gone off panel and we struggled a lot.
Kelly is an unreal talent who also works so hard on his game and his fitness. He reminds me most of DJ but DJ got so many goals whilst Tony plays a bit deeper at times. The likes of Kelly and Canning probably have to do a lot more as they are from counties with less tradition of winning AIs and are not surrounded by proven winners and great hurlers.
That said, I think Clare have 4 or 5 excellent players and a team of lads willing to give everything for the coach. The spirit is great and if we had get a second scoring forward, preferably an inside forward, we are in business.
Clareman (Clare) - Posts: 1056 - 28/07/2021 09:10:23
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Replying To Clareman: "I think that is a fair point re the round robin. Whilst I am in favour of it in terms of it giving every team 4 or 5 games guaranteed a year, and also games for places like Ennis, Wexford, Waterford and Salthill, it does punish the smaller squads. In 2018 we had a deeper squad and were able to make most out of it. by 2019, 3 or 4 of lads had gone off panel and we struggled a lot.
Kelly is an unreal talent who also works so hard on his game and his fitness. He reminds me most of DJ but DJ got so many goals whilst Tony plays a bit deeper at times. The likes of Kelly and Canning probably have to do a lot more as they are from counties with less tradition of winning AIs and are not surrounded by proven winners and great hurlers.
That said, I think Clare have 4 or 5 excellent players and a team of lads willing to give everything for the coach. The spirit is great and if we had get a second scoring forward, preferably an inside forward, we are in business." SOD was a big loss for you this year. Has great energy and that X factor. While not prolific just by being on the pitch he would have created more space for the other lads. Rodgers and McCarthy look great prospects. Hard to know what to make of Shanagher. Really strange to see a top forward being so one sided and must make it easier for top defenders to defend against him. Needs to bulk up also. Malone, Reidy and Taylor all good players but seem to fade in and out of games. Ian Galvin didnt seem to play as well this year. Anyway that's from the outside looking in I only saw highlights of your game v Waterford though I watched the whole of your other 3 games. Was really hoping you would beat Tipp because I had a bad feeling we would be playing you again if you didnt. And I dont know if it's the Davy factor but since 2014 you always seem to raise your game against us.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 15639 - 28/07/2021 11:15:18
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Replying To hurlingexpert: "Its impossible to say for sure. But do you think the fact that some have left the panel in recent years may be that they felt it wasnt worth the further commitment for years when they have already won an all ireland? I mean like for a non traditional top 3 county like ourselves, winning one all ireland in a career is a great achievement. Then maybe the hunger for more isnt quiet there like it would be for a tipp, cork or kk player. Particularly for lads who are not starters and are on the fringes. They might think to themselves whats the point hanging around when i already have an all ireland medal.
I have no doubt that's not the mentality of the likes of Kelly, but a lot of other maybe would be of that mindset." I was looking at the panel of 2013 there was 37 hurlers on an extended panel of that amount 32 of that 37 are gone
I know that there would of course have been retirements injuries travelling ect but a lot of that 32 are young enough to be still in contention.
I just wonder how we would compare with other Counties in fall off like that we looked to have World at our feet back then but never happened for what ever reason
clooney (Clare) - Posts: 984 - 28/07/2021 11:16:02
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Replying To clooney: "I was looking at the panel of 2013 there was 37 hurlers on an extended panel of that amount 32 of that 37 are gone
I know that there would of course have been retirements injuries travelling ect but a lot of that 32 are young enough to be still in contention.
I just wonder how we would compare with other Counties in fall off like that we looked to have World at our feet back then but never happened for what ever reason" You culd pick a Clare team of absentees that to me would be a decent inter county team. Eldest on the below is Touhy and Dillon at 32. I didnt include Nicky O Connell who is 33. POC is on panel but injured.
Every county gets injuries and illness, but its a very high turnover.
Touhy
Oisin O Brien
Dillon
Domhall O Donovan
Gudgie O Connell
Nicky O Connelll
Shanahan
Morey
Conor Ryan
Duggan
Podge Collins
Aaron Cunningham
Mcgrath
Honan
Tots O Connell
Cathal Mac, Davy O Halloran another 2..
Clareman (Clare) - Posts: 1056 - 28/07/2021 15:00:06
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Replying To Clareman: "You culd pick a Clare team of absentees that to me would be a decent inter county team. Eldest on the below is Touhy and Dillon at 32. I didnt include Nicky O Connell who is 33. POC is on panel but injured.
Every county gets injuries and illness, but its a very high turnover.
Touhy
Oisin O Brien
Dillon
Domhall O Donovan
Gudgie O Connell
Nicky O Connelll
Shanahan
Morey
Conor Ryan
Duggan
Podge Collins
Aaron Cunningham
Mcgrath
Honan
Tots O Connell
Cathal Mac, Davy O Halloran another 2.." some array of talent there all right
clooney (Clare) - Posts: 984 - 28/07/2021 15:22:24
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My Final Word on Clare Hurling 2021 is to compliment Brian Lohan on his service as Manager he may have done some things wrong or showed inexperience or what ever but he knows how to give an interview with a bit of class.
He was asked as a player about the Kieron Carey point in 1996 refused to indulge in self pity said Limerick deserved their win that was it.
After Cork game he complimented Cork team & management plus spoke highly of his own players no a whinge in sight & you can see that Clare Team has spirit ect.
A real pragmatist he was one of finest full backs of his generation so he deserved great credit for his time in management also
clooney (Clare) - Posts: 984 - 29/07/2021 09:25:01
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Replying To clooney: "My Final Word on Clare Hurling 2021 is to compliment Brian Lohan on his service as Manager he may have done some things wrong or showed inexperience or what ever but he knows how to give an interview with a bit of class.
He was asked as a player about the Kieron Carey point in 1996 refused to indulge in self pity said Limerick deserved their win that was it.
After Cork game he complimented Cork team & management plus spoke highly of his own players no a whinge in sight & you can see that Clare Team has spirit ect.
A real pragmatist he was one of finest full backs of his generation so he deserved great credit for his time in management also" Well said. 100% agree.
Clareman (Clare) - Posts: 1056 - 29/07/2021 09:57:57
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