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Replying To baire:  "Which of those 4 points of mine is off the mark?
The first two are irrefutable.
Leinster, look at the results, don't mind the scores.
Mayo, 68 years since they won an AI
Ulster, one All-Ireland this decade.
Kerry have been in transition - will be back."
If it wasn't for Dublin

Both Kerry and Mayo would have won multiple titles this decade and been considered great teams.

You indicated that it wasnt competitive I pointed you the facts that prove it was in fact hugely competive and Dublin had teams that pushed them all the way.

Score lines don't lie. It's all available on YouTube

Brilliant heart in mouth action

It's just that one team was better to overcome everything thrown at it.

Mayo and Kerry left titles/wins behind them

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 15/12/2019 18:39:36    2255018

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Replying To Jackeen:  "You'd think so right? You'd want to tell that to some of your fellow Kerry supporters!"
Exactly...!
We started our 5 in a row beating Kerry and and achieved the 5 in a row by beating them...!
That counts for extra in my book, and they really can't handle it at all.
Even though they should be satisfied that they have won more Sam's than us, they just can't handle not winning ....!

Fionn (Dublin) - Posts: 3732 - 15/12/2019 18:57:39    2255024

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Replying To baire:  "Which of those 4 points of mine is off the mark?
The first two are irrefutable.
Leinster, look at the results, don't mind the scores.
Mayo, 68 years since they won an AI
Ulster, one All-Ireland this decade.
Kerry have been in transition - will be back."
Kerry team of 2011 were in transition???

Mayo team of this era has arguably been the greatest team to have come out of Connaught. Certainly the greatest Mayo team of all time. They could easily have won 2 titles in this decade.

The Donegal team of this era has been the best Donegal team of all time.

Dublin retired the greatest Tyrone team of all time in 2011 and put an end to one of the great Kerry teams.

This Dublin squad has simply been better.

You say look at Leinster. I say look at Munster.

What was your point again?

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 15/12/2019 19:22:36    2255031

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Replying To Joxer:  "Kerry team of 2011 were in transition???

Mayo team of this era has arguably been the greatest team to have come out of Connaught. Certainly the greatest Mayo team of all time. They could easily have won 2 titles in this decade.

The Donegal team of this era has been the best Donegal team of all time.

Dublin retired the greatest Tyrone team of all time in 2011 and put an end to one of the great Kerry teams.

This Dublin squad has simply been better.

You say look at Leinster. I say look at Munster.

What was your point again?"
That Kerry 2011 team wasn't in transition but some of the best players of the 00's era like Moynihan and Darragh O'Se were retired, Tommy Walsh had gone to the AFL etc. They were competitive but a long way off the team that had been so successful the previous decade, that particular team peaked 2004-07 imo. I think Kerry got what they deserved this decade. They were not as talented as previous Kerry teams and the results bore that out.

And Mayo are not the greatest team to come out of Connaught, are you kidding! Galway team in the late 90's was a good bit ahead of them to name just one. Tyrone were long gone as well by the time Dublin beat them in 2011, they would not have dealt with the 2005 version so easily. Donegal were excellent for a couple of years alright but couldn't sustain it.

I honestly don't think there were any great teams there except Dublin

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 15/12/2019 20:08:04    2255033

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Replying To Joxer:  "Kerry team of 2011 were in transition???

Mayo team of this era has arguably been the greatest team to have come out of Connaught. Certainly the greatest Mayo team of all time. They could easily have won 2 titles in this decade.

The Donegal team of this era has been the best Donegal team of all time.

Dublin retired the greatest Tyrone team of all time in 2011 and put an end to one of the great Kerry teams.

This Dublin squad has simply been better.

You say look at Leinster. I say look at Munster.

What was your point again?"
Leinster apart from Dublin is a no contest, a handy warm up for the Dubs.
Munster in recent years apart from Kerry is non-competitive.
You talk about Mayo being the greatest team to come out of Connacht - since when? Since the year 2002 I presume.
We all know Mayo had great teams and wonderful footballers but when it comes to winning an AIF ...
So that's means between Leinster, Connacht and Munster the only real challenge to Dublin in recent years has been Kerry and that Kerry team has been in transition. All things considered it's surprising that Dublin didn't win more in the previous 20 years when their capital gains and privileges are taken into account.

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1795 - 15/12/2019 20:39:39    2255037

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Replying To Fionn:  "Exactly...!
We started our 5 in a row beating Kerry and and achieved the 5 in a row by beating them...!
That counts for extra in my book, and they really can't handle it at all.
Even though they should be satisfied that they have won more Sam's than us, they just can't handle not winning ....!"
Ye beat one Kerry team that were finishing up in 2015 and another Kerry that was starting out in 2019 , hardly reason to get excited in my book.

I'm not going to say anything about Mayo as they should have beat ye for sure and if the games were played outside of crokepark ye might have just about scraped a 2 in a row.

Tyrone were in transition like ourselves and Donegal.

If you were to listen to jumbos propaganda you'd think dublin were a ragtag bunch of unlikely hero's that Disney would make a film about, but the thruth is that dublin have unmercifull advantages over everyone else in number advantages
Home advantages
Money advantages

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 15/12/2019 21:10:00    2255046

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "That Kerry 2011 team wasn't in transition but some of the best players of the 00's era like Moynihan and Darragh O'Se were retired, Tommy Walsh had gone to the AFL etc. They were competitive but a long way off the team that had been so successful the previous decade, that particular team peaked 2004-07 imo. I think Kerry got what they deserved this decade. They were not as talented as previous Kerry teams and the results bore that out.

And Mayo are not the greatest team to come out of Connaught, are you kidding! Galway team in the late 90's was a good bit ahead of them to name just one. Tyrone were long gone as well by the time Dublin beat them in 2011, they would not have dealt with the 2005 version so easily. Donegal were excellent for a couple of years alright but couldn't sustain it.

I honestly don't think there were any great teams there except Dublin"
The 2011 final was that Kerry team's 3rd final in 4 years, very far from a spent force. Cooper, Sheehan, Declan and Darren O'Sullivan all in their prime. The Galway team of the 90s was a great team but the Mayo team of the last 10 years was fantastic. They ran this Dublin team to within a point three times. Dublin would have blown away that 90s Galway team, no question.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 15/12/2019 22:07:19    2255055

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "That Kerry 2011 team wasn't in transition but some of the best players of the 00's era like Moynihan and Darragh O'Se were retired, Tommy Walsh had gone to the AFL etc. They were competitive but a long way off the team that had been so successful the previous decade, that particular team peaked 2004-07 imo. I think Kerry got what they deserved this decade. They were not as talented as previous Kerry teams and the results bore that out.

And Mayo are not the greatest team to come out of Connaught, are you kidding! Galway team in the late 90's was a good bit ahead of them to name just one. Tyrone were long gone as well by the time Dublin beat them in 2011, they would not have dealt with the 2005 version so easily. Donegal were excellent for a couple of years alright but couldn't sustain it.

I honestly don't think there were any great teams there except Dublin"
We had lost our entire centre column from our 09 allireland winning team when Diarmuid Murphy goalie Tommy griffin fullback mike McCarthy centerback darragh O'Sé Seamus scanlon midfield Tadhg Kennelly centreforward and Tommy walsh full forward were all gone in 2011 .

Take cluxton cooper O'Sullivan Fenton mdma Kilkenny and rock out of the dublin team and see what they'd manage.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 15/12/2019 22:10:16    2255056

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Replying To baire:  "Leinster apart from Dublin is a no contest, a handy warm up for the Dubs.
Munster in recent years apart from Kerry is non-competitive.
You talk about Mayo being the greatest team to come out of Connacht - since when? Since the year 2002 I presume.
We all know Mayo had great teams and wonderful footballers but when it comes to winning an AIF ...
So that's means between Leinster, Connacht and Munster the only real challenge to Dublin in recent years has been Kerry and that Kerry team has been in transition. All things considered it's surprising that Dublin didn't win more in the previous 20 years when their capital gains and privileges are taken into account."
Mayo should have beaten Dublin 3 times in the championship in the last number of years. They have been Dublin's only real challengers. Kerry have been nowhere near Dublin in reality. They have been "in transition" for 9 years now according to Kerry people.

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 15/12/2019 22:11:01    2255057

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Ye beat one Kerry team that were finishing up in 2015 and another Kerry that was starting out in 2019 , hardly reason to get excited in my book.

I'm not going to say anything about Mayo as they should have beat ye for sure and if the games were played outside of crokepark ye might have just about scraped a 2 in a row.

Tyrone were in transition like ourselves and Donegal.

If you were to listen to jumbos propaganda you'd think dublin were a ragtag bunch of unlikely hero's that Disney would make a film about, but the thruth is that dublin have unmercifull advantages over everyone else in number advantages
Home advantages
Money advantages"
You've been "in transition" for 9 years now. That's an inter county career for some lads. We never won an AI through the back door and we never won one by playing just 3 games. Advantages is right. How's that centre of excellence palace coming along anyway?

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 15/12/2019 22:14:32    2255060

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Replying To Joxer:  "The 2011 final was that Kerry team's 3rd final in 4 years, very far from a spent force. Cooper, Sheehan, Declan and Darren O'Sullivan all in their prime. The Galway team of the 90s was a great team but the Mayo team of the last 10 years was fantastic. They ran this Dublin team to within a point three times. Dublin would have blown away that 90s Galway team, no question."
Yes Kerry had a good team in 2011 but not a patch on the middle of the previous decade when they had some of their best players ever at their peak.

You are massively underestimating that Galway team Joxer. They made three finals in four years, winning two and had outstanding footballers all over the field. We can only speculate how they would fare in todays game but I don't think the recent Mayo team are as balanced or as talented as that side personally.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 15/12/2019 22:36:23    2255066

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "That Kerry 2011 team wasn't in transition but some of the best players of the 00's era like Moynihan and Darragh O'Se were retired, Tommy Walsh had gone to the AFL etc. They were competitive but a long way off the team that had been so successful the previous decade, that particular team peaked 2004-07 imo. I think Kerry got what they deserved this decade. They were not as talented as previous Kerry teams and the results bore that out.

And Mayo are not the greatest team to come out of Connaught, are you kidding! Galway team in the late 90's was a good bit ahead of them to name just one. Tyrone were long gone as well by the time Dublin beat them in 2011, they would not have dealt with the 2005 version so easily. Donegal were excellent for a couple of years alright but couldn't sustain it.

I honestly don't think there were any great teams there except Dublin"
Gerry

That's because Dublin didn't let any other team have the opportunity

If Mayo had of won those games against Dublin they would have been considered great and spoken about for decades. Even in losing that team will be remembered

Unlike Kerry in the 00's who allowed Tyrone to become great and who in fact bossed them

Dublin won all their big battles and came through their ultimate tests. They didn't allow for anyone else to come to the front.

Something Kerry have struggled with for the last 20 years

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20600 - 16/12/2019 08:01:29    2255083

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Replying To jimbodub:  "Gerry

That's because Dublin didn't let any other team have the opportunity

If Mayo had of won those games against Dublin they would have been considered great and spoken about for decades. Even in losing that team will be remembered

Unlike Kerry in the 00's who allowed Tyrone to become great and who in fact bossed them

Dublin won all their big battles and came through their ultimate tests. They didn't allow for anyone else to come to the front.

Something Kerry have struggled with for the last 20 years"
Yeah Mayo should have won at least one of those finals. They put themselves in a position to do it but couldn't get the job done unfortunately for them. They were an excellent team, if a little limited in the forward ranks. Dublin closed out all of those close games against Mayo and Kerry and that is the hallmark of a great team.

BTW I don't think Kerry 'allowed' Tyrone to become great Jim, that is disrespectful to Tyrone. Look at their team sheet and 1-15 they had awesome footballers, and crucially they had finishers up top. They were going to be successful no matter who was in their way.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 16/12/2019 09:59:03    2255094

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I think the whole bar of greatness has been raised myself, its been a wonderful era of football really, obviously great if you are Dub, we've brought it to a new level, but the era in question even without Dublin i thought produced some excellent teams.

Kerry from 11-13 were an excellent team, 2011 was terrific game in all honesty they were naive and complacent in not seeing it out they never saw Dublin coming, 2013 semi even better, many have descirbed it as the greatest game of football ever.

Donegal of 2012 - 2014, were a great competitive side as well and enjoyed their own success and the only gun really to take out Dublin.

Mayo 2012-2017, will always be mentioned as the best side never to win an All Ireland (maybe im speaking to soon).

Tyrone 18 & Kerry 19, id say a little bit behind the first three ive mentioned, good teams though.

All those teams massively unlucky to come up against probably and in my opinion the best team ever to play to the game. Taking Dublin out of it and there more then likely would have been a different winner each year. I consider it a great era for football, more enjoyable then the one before, i thought the 00's was quite poor myself and i think the 90's as well, the game has advanced and evolved to a top level. But that is subjective opinion.

Regardless of Dublin and taking them away there has been some truly great games between the team si mentioned above, really high quality and dramatic stuff that is to be admired, its been a really good era in my opinion.

We just did something not done before in the history of the game, we beat every challenger up and down the country year after year, there is just no one left, the list of counties beaten is unprecedented and we have just abdicated as oppressed to be beaten.

No doubt we will take a back ward step and everyone will think its a massive coincidence that football just became "competitive" again suddenly and mystically some teams will come out of "transition", what boots they have to fill though. ;D

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 16/12/2019 11:25:11    2255116

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Yeah Mayo should have won at least one of those finals. They put themselves in a position to do it but couldn't get the job done unfortunately for them. They were an excellent team, if a little limited in the forward ranks. Dublin closed out all of those close games against Mayo and Kerry and that is the hallmark of a great team.

BTW I don't think Kerry 'allowed' Tyrone to become great Jim, that is disrespectful to Tyrone. Look at their team sheet and 1-15 they had awesome footballers, and crucially they had finishers up top. They were going to be successful no matter who was in their way."
The thing about Mayo, it was the case with the Galway hurlers for years, is that they should/could have won All Irelands but didn't and often times they didn't win not because of ill-luck but mostly due to lack of self-belief. When the winning of the game was there doubts crept in and chances were missed, mistakes were made etc. One can argue that Dublin defeated a great Mayo team but on the other hand Dublin defeated a county team that had no experience, no folk memory of winning the big one and found that final hurdle insurmountable. As others have observed the balance of their teams was not the same as that of the All Ireland winning teams of Donegal, Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone or Galway where you had quality players all over the field. Mayo seemed to lack 3 or 4 scoring forwards on the big day - possibly concentrating too much on defence which reflected their lack of belief.

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1795 - 16/12/2019 11:27:26    2255117

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Replying To Joxer:  "Mayo should have beaten Dublin 3 times in the championship in the last number of years. They have been Dublin's only real challengers. Kerry have been nowhere near Dublin in reality. They have been "in transition" for 9 years now according to Kerry people."
Basically you're saying that Dublin weren't that great at all, they could barely beat Mayo, a county that hasn't won an All-Ireland in 68 years!

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1795 - 16/12/2019 11:37:38    2255119

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Replying To baire:  "Basically you're saying that Dublin weren't that great at all, they could barely beat Mayo, a county that hasn't won an All-Ireland in 68 years!"
That's the bit that no Dublin poster can close the circle on!

They claim they've been successful in a competitive era where standards are higher than ever, and yet they've scraped past a Mayo team who failed to win Connaught and drew with Derry and Cork in the same championship.

Mayo stumbled to the all ireland finals of 16 and 17 and were still a match for Dublin.
Kerry were definitely in transition in 2015 and came within a score of Dublin without showing up for that final.
If any team other than Dublin had won the 2018 all ireland, they'd probably be labelled the worst team to ever win it.
2019 Kerry are showing signs of a very promising young team, but even drawing the 1st final was a huge shock as they've a long way to go to become the finished article.


The Celtic comparison is relevant here again. The current Celtic team will win 10 in a row in all likelihood. They are by far and away a pale pale shadow of previous Celtic teams who couldn't manage the same feat.

Good achievements on paper aren't always what they seem.

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5012 - 16/12/2019 12:31:51    2255128

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How do we try to take away from Dublin achievements? I know, let's breakdown their wins, lets say other teams weren't that great which means Dublin weren't that great. Let's liken them to Celtic, that ought to do it. Let's say Kerry were in transition which basically means they weren't good enough. Let's say their nearest rival throughout the decade, Mayo, weren't really contenders cos they haven't won Sam. Let's clutch at all the straws we can cos we just can't stomach the thoughts that they made history. You're persistent lads, if nothing else.

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 4097 - 16/12/2019 12:51:32    2255132

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I dont think anyo other county has a period of dominance against so many high profile high quality counties then Dublin in this era, if you compared to prob the next kerry from 78-82 runs, there just isnt a comparison in term sof opposition and quality, the Kerry 4 in a row, hasn't aged well in terms of achievement, 19 games unbeaten for 4 in a row and to get to a final to try for the 5th, Dublin currently on a 37 game unbeaten run to do a modern day 5..


Dublin 2011:

Loais
Kildare
Wexford
Tyrone
Donegal
Kerry

2013
Westmeath
Kildare
Meath
Cork
Kerry
Mayo

2015
Longford
Kildare
Westmeath
Fermanagh
Mayo
Mayo R
Kerry

2016
Loais
Meath
Wesmeath
Donegal
Kerry
Mayo
Mayo R

2017
Carlow
Westmeath
Kildare
Monaghan
Tyrone
Mayo

2018

Wicklow
Longford
Laois
Donegal
Tyrone
Roscommon
Galway
Tyrone

2019
Louth
Kildare
Meath
Cork
Roscommon
Tyrone
Mayo
Kerry
Kerry R

Dont think any county can get near a sniff of that country wide dominance with such a mix of counties in it over such a long period of time, nor a record breaking 37 game unbeaten run in the championship with the first senior 5 in a row and history made.

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 16/12/2019 13:55:08    2255144

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Replying To baire:  "Basically you're saying that Dublin weren't that great at all, they could barely beat Mayo, a county that hasn't won an All-Ireland in 68 years!"
You can only beat what's in front of ye and the fact that this Mayo team made the latter stages several years in the decade speaks volumes about them does it not?

Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4700 - 16/12/2019 14:40:03    2255156

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