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Replying To Ulsterman: "Fair play to the Alliance Party who have today called out the attempts to sectarianise the rebuilding of Casement. There are those in the North who will always be implacably opposed to the GAA for pure bigotry reasons. Unfortunately there is also an element within the GAA in Ulster who hate the very thought of Belfast getting the Ulster final again. The same ones who come into the city for their Civil Service, NHS, teaching jobs etc but never want Belfast to get anything in return." Dear god are you still going on about this, take that massive chip off your shoulder.
The vast majority of Ulster Gaels are delighted this is finally starting, those that are opposed to its location are few and far between.
sean og (Armagh) - Posts: 1071 - 21/02/2024 20:37:28
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Replying To Saynothing: "Were you ever down the M1? Casement is along side it. Can't wait for Ulster finals in it whether Tyrone's involved or not." Do you think macca999 and I were never in Belfast? Neither of us is stupid and our opinion stands i.e. the stadium is being placed in the wrong location. Wait until the rows over parking blocking nearby residents start! Also, the stadium has no room for expansion, so it's limited in capacity being only half the size of Croke Park. No wonder GAA HQ won't fork out any major dosh for its construction. Our white elephant prediction remains!!
GalloonBaffoon (Fermanagh) - Posts: 120 - 21/02/2024 20:47:53
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Replying To REDANDBLACK30: "Sinn Fein don't like making cuts. The British Government recently acknowledged that the North has been funded significantly below need then proceeded to demand revenue raising of £113 million from water charges/rates increases be introduced. If there was no Stormont assembly the British would just introduce them anyway. The bedroom tax was partially/fully mitigated by the Stormont assembly running. With direct rule there are no mitigations on whatever the British decide." They seem to like being governors of the north. Something that was anathema to republicans for generations. There's always some excuse, No wonder people starting to cop on to them.
BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3118 - 21/02/2024 20:50:22
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Replying To REDANDBLACK30: "It would be great if this stadium was built. The GAA missed a trick with their failure to often more funding for the stadium more than the £15 million they have already committed." Points to note , that some may not be aware off,
The IFA & Ulster Rugby made no contributions to the renovations of their venues.
Some of the disharmony from the soccer brigade surrounds another pot of Stormont money for sub regional soccer ground redevelopment , these has been withheld to sate dud to Casement delays.
Casement will undergo some structural changes after the Euros are. played
DelganyUpper (Tyrone) - Posts: 20 - 21/02/2024 20:53:57
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It's unfortunate that some real partitionist views are now coming out south of the border on the Irish government part funding the rebuilding Casement. Damien Duff said the money "should have been spent in Ireland". In the name of sweet....is this the same Damien Duff who took millions of quid in wages across the water? Partitionism how are ye Damien? The DUP will love you for that no doubt.
Ulsterman (Antrim) - Posts: 9785 - 22/02/2024 01:38:26
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Replying To GalloonBaffoon: "Do you think macca999 and I were never in Belfast? Neither of us is stupid and our opinion stands i.e. the stadium is being placed in the wrong location. Wait until the rows over parking blocking nearby residents start! Also, the stadium has no room for expansion, so it's limited in capacity being only half the size of Croke Park. No wonder GAA HQ won't fork out any major dosh for its construction. Our white elephant prediction remains!!" You don't sound like you have much experience of being near west Belfast anyway. Music festivals are regularly held in the same area with a few minor disruptions at the worst. It's a city, it's used to traffic. How many times do Dubs have to listen to this muck about parking and location when Croker is in the middle of a busy built up area being used on a weekly basis all summer?
SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2501 - 22/02/2024 04:06:50
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Wouldnt it be lovely if the people of the North got a slip in their door in the morning - they could decide to move across the "border" permanently, or else move to the "mainland" permanently, whatever persuasion they were of, of course. All of this could happen in a day to save our colective headache, then the six counties could be lanced off the island, and towed by the biggest ships in the world to the north of Greenland somewhere and left there for the remainder of eternity to freeze over, and never, ever be discussed again.
I am so, so, so tired of the place. To our fellow GAA fans from there, I just dont know how you put up with it. I think you all secretly love the nonsense. It is not to be seen in any other modern European country.
Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 596 - 22/02/2024 06:43:39
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This current Casement project the biggest White Elephant in the history of the GAA (Projected to run over £240stg / €280 million), more than double the price of Pairc Ui Chaoimh (€96m) with 10,000 less capacity (Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 45000 capacity, New Casement = 34578, Clones = 36000).
Project Justification
- Nationalists in West Belfast get a GAA Stadium to rival Unionist Sport Stadiums in East Belfast.
- Sinn Fein and SDLP get to claim they made it happen, when in reality the original 2023 Rugby World Cup triggered the British Government to explore it as an investment opportunity.
- Belfast has shopping, airports and hotels - things fans from Donegal, Derry, Tyrone, Monaghan, Cavan, Armagh, Fermanagh etc all really need on Ulster Championship match days.
- Can hold concerts in Belfast for various Pop, Hip Hop, Country, Rock etc events.
- British Government are paying money towards it.
- Antrim and Ulster GAA gets a top class stadium to rival other Provinces.
NOTE: Interestingly of all the justifications put forward over the last 10 years or more, needs of GAA fans who will most regularly be using it have been ignored, not even part of the considerations.
Issues
- They build in a cramped site in West Belfast with insufficient parking to cater for crowds in excess of 30,000.
- Stadium capacity is limited to a lower capacity than Clones, as there is no room for a bigger Stadium on this site.
- Many Fans will have to use Park & Ride facilities from 10+ miles outside Belfast for big games.
- It doesn't solve the 1.5 - 2 hour journey faced by many fans to Clones, many fans in Donegal, Fermanagh and Cavan will still face this or 1.5 hour minimum.
If this Stadium is likely to cost >£200 million and raising that money is a problem, did anybody consider revisiting the design and see what kind of stadium could be built for £110 million? How much did the main stand in Armagh's Athletic ground cost? Imagine multiplying that style of stand around the 4 sides of Casement?
I suspect a top class Antrim GAA stadium could be built on the Casement Park site for £100 million, which is miles better than anything we currently have in Ulster at present, simply cut out all of the nonsense.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 22/02/2024 07:57:32
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Replying To BarneyGrant: "No dog in the fight, but neither flag innocent when it comes to barbarism. Simplicity on both sides too. Republicans in 40s and 50s were very much pro Israel and indeed there were connections to Haganagh during Zionist fight against the Brits." Yeah that's true. There's no doubt that what Hamas did in October was despicable. But Israel's response has been totally disproportionate. While they were entititled to retaliate and seek justice for their own victims, I think it is clear to see that Netanyahu has used it as a pretext to annex more and more Palestinian land & to hell with the loss of life and the ensuing humanitarian catastrophe.
I haven't seen anyone in Ireland waving Hamas flags. It is not an Anti-Semitic stance, but a standing in solidarity with a people who are being brutally punished for something that the vast majority had no hand in. I wonder what the Israelis think the end game is? That when this is over that will be that? All they are doing is planting further seeds of hate in Palestinian minds.
We saw it in the North albeit on a smaller scale. The British would take a hardline view on the IRA (e.g. the Hunger Strikers) and all it did was recruit more volunteers and damage their own image in the propaganda war. Until both sides realised the war was unwinnable, and were willing to compromise there was no hope of peace. Sadly, they're a long way away from that in the Middle East.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9518 - 22/02/2024 08:54:03
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I have no problem with a stadium being built in Belfast or anywhere else in the North for that matter. What annoys me is that it will likely go the way of every other big well publicised infrastructure project on this island. It will be beset by internal wrangling, sniping, a lack of foresight and inevitable budget overspend. Anywhere there is an enormous budget for a project such as this, every pig in the game will be jostling to get their snout in the trough. Corruption is a near certainty.
I've often argued that for projects such as these, we should outsource the entire thing to German project management specialists like AECOM. They have no political alliance and their only concern would be that the project is completed in an efficient a manner as possible. But of course there is absolutely no chance something like that could be countenanced by pro Brexit eejits like the DUP.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9518 - 22/02/2024 09:27:24
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Replying To GaryMc82: "This current Casement project the biggest White Elephant in the history of the GAA (Projected to run over £240stg / €280 million), more than double the price of Pairc Ui Chaoimh (€96m) with 10,000 less capacity (Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 45000 capacity, New Casement = 34578, Clones = 36000).
Project Justification
- Nationalists in West Belfast get a GAA Stadium to rival Unionist Sport Stadiums in East Belfast.
- Sinn Fein and SDLP get to claim they made it happen, when in reality the original 2023 Rugby World Cup triggered the British Government to explore it as an investment opportunity.
- Belfast has shopping, airports and hotels - things fans from Donegal, Derry, Tyrone, Monaghan, Cavan, Armagh, Fermanagh etc all really need on Ulster Championship match days.
- Can hold concerts in Belfast for various Pop, Hip Hop, Country, Rock etc events.
- British Government are paying money towards it.
- Antrim and Ulster GAA gets a top class stadium to rival other Provinces.
NOTE: Interestingly of all the justifications put forward over the last 10 years or more, needs of GAA fans who will most regularly be using it have been ignored, not even part of the considerations.
Issues
- They build in a cramped site in West Belfast with insufficient parking to cater for crowds in excess of 30,000.
- Stadium capacity is limited to a lower capacity than Clones, as there is no room for a bigger Stadium on this site.
- Many Fans will have to use Park & Ride facilities from 10+ miles outside Belfast for big games.
- It doesn't solve the 1.5 - 2 hour journey faced by many fans to Clones, many fans in Donegal, Fermanagh and Cavan will still face this or 1.5 hour minimum.
If this Stadium is likely to cost >£200 million and raising that money is a problem, did anybody consider revisiting the design and see what kind of stadium could be built for £110 million? How much did the main stand in Armagh's Athletic ground cost? Imagine multiplying that style of stand around the 4 sides of Casement?
I suspect a top class Antrim GAA stadium could be built on the Casement Park site for £100 million, which is miles better than anything we currently have in Ulster at present, simply cut out all of the nonsense." You're missing the main point. The cost has increased due to need for a UEFA standard stadium. Of course a basic enough 25k stadium could be built easily for far less. But this needs over 30k and certain facilities for that grade of a stadium to hold events of that UEFA level. So funding issue should indeed be looked at by the govt, who are the ones who applied for the Euros and who want this. That's the crux of the matter. Remove this and the cost drops - but then there is no venue. the place will literally pay for itself in no time with the Euros and otehr events
Anf come on, the location maybe is not the best, but it is far far better than Clones. there's a motorway nearby, and parking will be fine in a city. Sure look how Croker absorbs an 83k crowd. Casement will be fine, and either way support infrastructure can be upgraded if needed
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2450 - 22/02/2024 10:10:20
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Replying To Lockjaw: "I have no problem with a stadium being built in Belfast or anywhere else in the North for that matter. What annoys me is that it will likely go the way of every other big well publicised infrastructure project on this island. It will be beset by internal wrangling, sniping, a lack of foresight and inevitable budget overspend. Anywhere there is an enormous budget for a project such as this, every pig in the game will be jostling to get their snout in the trough. Corruption is a near certainty.
I've often argued that for projects such as these, we should outsource the entire thing to German project management specialists like AECOM. They have no political alliance and their only concern would be that the project is completed in an efficient a manner as possible. But of course there is absolutely no chance something like that could be countenanced by pro Brexit eejits like the DUP." AECOM are not German, they're American based, and they are already involved in multiple infrastructure projects in Ireland that have well run over budget. They're in it for profit, they're not philanthropic
Loughduff Lad (Cavan) - Posts: 2450 - 22/02/2024 10:13:00
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Replying To GaryMc82: "This current Casement project the biggest White Elephant in the history of the GAA (Projected to run over £240stg / €280 million), more than double the price of Pairc Ui Chaoimh (€96m) with 10,000 less capacity (Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 45000 capacity, New Casement = 34578, Clones = 36000).
Project Justification
- Nationalists in West Belfast get a GAA Stadium to rival Unionist Sport Stadiums in East Belfast.
- Sinn Fein and SDLP get to claim they made it happen, when in reality the original 2023 Rugby World Cup triggered the British Government to explore it as an investment opportunity.
- Belfast has shopping, airports and hotels - things fans from Donegal, Derry, Tyrone, Monaghan, Cavan, Armagh, Fermanagh etc all really need on Ulster Championship match days.
- Can hold concerts in Belfast for various Pop, Hip Hop, Country, Rock etc events.
- British Government are paying money towards it.
- Antrim and Ulster GAA gets a top class stadium to rival other Provinces.
NOTE: Interestingly of all the justifications put forward over the last 10 years or more, needs of GAA fans who will most regularly be using it have been ignored, not even part of the considerations.
Issues
- They build in a cramped site in West Belfast with insufficient parking to cater for crowds in excess of 30,000.
- Stadium capacity is limited to a lower capacity than Clones, as there is no room for a bigger Stadium on this site.
- Many Fans will have to use Park & Ride facilities from 10+ miles outside Belfast for big games.
- It doesn't solve the 1.5 - 2 hour journey faced by many fans to Clones, many fans in Donegal, Fermanagh and Cavan will still face this or 1.5 hour minimum.
If this Stadium is likely to cost >£200 million and raising that money is a problem, did anybody consider revisiting the design and see what kind of stadium could be built for £110 million? How much did the main stand in Armagh's Athletic ground cost? Imagine multiplying that style of stand around the 4 sides of Casement?
I suspect a top class Antrim GAA stadium could be built on the Casement Park site for £100 million, which is miles better than anything we currently have in Ulster at present, simply cut out all of the nonsense." I agree with nearly everything here. The bottom line is that the site is too tight. If it was offered to my Gaa club tomorrow, I'd turn it down. It has absolutely no room for facilities, and no room for further development.
It is not going to be a home for Ulster Gaels. Its going to be a concert venue.
SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 704 - 22/02/2024 10:13:17
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Replying To Lockjaw: "I have no problem with a stadium being built in Belfast or anywhere else in the North for that matter. What annoys me is that it will likely go the way of every other big well publicised infrastructure project on this island. It will be beset by internal wrangling, sniping, a lack of foresight and inevitable budget overspend. Anywhere there is an enormous budget for a project such as this, every pig in the game will be jostling to get their snout in the trough. Corruption is a near certainty.
I've often argued that for projects such as these, we should outsource the entire thing to German project management specialists like AECOM. They have no political alliance and their only concern would be that the project is completed in an efficient a manner as possible. But of course there is absolutely no chance something like that could be countenanced by pro Brexit eejits like the DUP." Won't happen with the "dinosaurs never existed/earth is 3000 years old: party up there
freetaker1 (Limerick) - Posts: 757 - 22/02/2024 10:30:12
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Replying To GaryMc82: "This current Casement project the biggest White Elephant in the history of the GAA (Projected to run over £240stg / €280 million), more than double the price of Pairc Ui Chaoimh (€96m) with 10,000 less capacity (Pairc Ui Chaoimh - 45000 capacity, New Casement = 34578, Clones = 36000).
Project Justification
- Nationalists in West Belfast get a GAA Stadium to rival Unionist Sport Stadiums in East Belfast.
- Sinn Fein and SDLP get to claim they made it happen, when in reality the original 2023 Rugby World Cup triggered the British Government to explore it as an investment opportunity.
- Belfast has shopping, airports and hotels - things fans from Donegal, Derry, Tyrone, Monaghan, Cavan, Armagh, Fermanagh etc all really need on Ulster Championship match days.
- Can hold concerts in Belfast for various Pop, Hip Hop, Country, Rock etc events.
- British Government are paying money towards it.
- Antrim and Ulster GAA gets a top class stadium to rival other Provinces.
NOTE: Interestingly of all the justifications put forward over the last 10 years or more, needs of GAA fans who will most regularly be using it have been ignored, not even part of the considerations.
Issues
- They build in a cramped site in West Belfast with insufficient parking to cater for crowds in excess of 30,000.
- Stadium capacity is limited to a lower capacity than Clones, as there is no room for a bigger Stadium on this site.
- Many Fans will have to use Park & Ride facilities from 10+ miles outside Belfast for big games.
- It doesn't solve the 1.5 - 2 hour journey faced by many fans to Clones, many fans in Donegal, Fermanagh and Cavan will still face this or 1.5 hour minimum.
If this Stadium is likely to cost >£200 million and raising that money is a problem, did anybody consider revisiting the design and see what kind of stadium could be built for £110 million? How much did the main stand in Armagh's Athletic ground cost? Imagine multiplying that style of stand around the 4 sides of Casement?
I suspect a top class Antrim GAA stadium could be built on the Casement Park site for £100 million, which is miles better than anything we currently have in Ulster at present, simply cut out all of the nonsense." Isn't Clones limited to 28k these days?
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1950 - 22/02/2024 11:20:47
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Replying To Lockjaw: "Yeah that's true. There's no doubt that what Hamas did in October was despicable. But Israel's response has been totally disproportionate. While they were entititled to retaliate and seek justice for their own victims, I think it is clear to see that Netanyahu has used it as a pretext to annex more and more Palestinian land & to hell with the loss of life and the ensuing humanitarian catastrophe.
I haven't seen anyone in Ireland waving Hamas flags. It is not an Anti-Semitic stance, but a standing in solidarity with a people who are being brutally punished for something that the vast majority had no hand in. I wonder what the Israelis think the end game is? That when this is over that will be that? All they are doing is planting further seeds of hate in Palestinian minds.
We saw it in the North albeit on a smaller scale. The British would take a hardline view on the IRA (e.g. the Hunger Strikers) and all it did was recruit more volunteers and damage their own image in the propaganda war. Until both sides realised the war was unwinnable, and were willing to compromise there was no hope of peace. Sadly, they're a long way away from that in the Middle East." The Israel project is a 100 year plantation on a gigantic scale which has forcibly removed the native Palestinains from something close to 90% of their land to accomodate European, Russian and American Jews. I have huge sympathy for Jewish people and the horrors they had to endure but that was not the correct way to create a safe country. The notion that you can create a country based on a 2000 year old book is mental. It's the equivalent of everyone with the Kelly surname around the world deciding to create a homeland based on the Book of Uí Maine and forcibly removing every non-Kelly from their land in east Galway-south Roscommon.
MachaireConnacht (Roscommon) - Posts: 999 - 22/02/2024 11:24:04
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Replying To Loughduff Lad: "AECOM are not German, they're American based, and they are already involved in multiple infrastructure projects in Ireland that have well run over budget. They're in it for profit, they're not philanthropic" I plucked AECOM for a Google search to be honest. But I agree, they wouldn't be doing it out of the goodness of their hearts, they'd need to make a buck as well. My main point is that we frequently mismanage large infra projects ourselves. The Germans have a well earned reputation when it comes to engineering which is what I was trying to convey.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9518 - 22/02/2024 11:38:19
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Replying To MachaireConnacht: "The Israel project is a 100 year plantation on a gigantic scale which has forcibly removed the native Palestinains from something close to 90% of their land to accomodate European, Russian and American Jews. I have huge sympathy for Jewish people and the horrors they had to endure but that was not the correct way to create a safe country. The notion that you can create a country based on a 2000 year old book is mental. It's the equivalent of everyone with the Kelly surname around the world deciding to create a homeland based on the Book of Uí Maine and forcibly removing every non-Kelly from their land in east Galway-south Roscommon." We know all that, but you can't undo the past , whether it happened 100 or 2,000 years ago. The people are there.
A solution is needed now, and references to wrongs/rights from a century ago or more aren't going to help in that regard.
I think most rational people agree that a two-state solution is the only answer, but achieving that is incredibly difficult.
The most important thing is an end to the bloodshed. Any ceasefire is always fragile though, as there are people there who have it in their interest for the conflict to continue.
WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2187 - 22/02/2024 11:59:32
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Isn't Clones limited to 28k these days?
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1265 - 22/02/2024 11:20:47
No, I think Clones is 36,000 max capacity, but in recent years they usually limit that to 33-34,000 for safety approval.
GaryMc82 (Derry) - Posts: 3017 - 22/02/2024 12:00:59
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Replying To GaryMc82: "Isn't Clones limited to 28k these days?
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1265 - 22/02/2024 11:20:47
No, I think Clones is 36,000 max capacity, but in recent years they usually limit that to 33-34,000 for safety approval." Was 28k in 2023
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1950 - 22/02/2024 12:38:30
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