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Replying To realdub: "Ha ha ha, I don't know to be honest, could ya imagine it? A team could build a human pyramid on the crossbar :D" It would totally fook up Hawkeye :-)
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 04/09/2019 10:02:50
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Replying To essmac: "You'd imagine it is. Often wondered why, facing a last-minute potentially-equalising or winning 45, the goalie just didn't hop up on the crossbar for a dropping ball ... unless there's some rule against assists? Though you'd be an all-time eejit / you-tube "what happened next" legend if you caught it and still fell back over the bar ..." Health and safety would have a conniption ;-)
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 04/09/2019 10:06:31
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Replying To TheFlaker: "Where did I say get the hump with Connolly? There doesn't seem to be an acknowledgement that you can't just step back in and be back at it. I don't think he is up to it. I think Gavin has made a huge mistake." Sorry Flaker, I misinterpreted what you had written.
Jury still out on the Connolly decision for me but I've no problem with him coming back in and don't see why anyone would.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 04/09/2019 13:46:04
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What's with the obsession with Connolly. Hes a great player but hes being made into the greatest player of all time somehow.
In reality he has a real bad temper is a liability sometimes and showed no loyalty to dub by going to usa last year. If it wasnt for a visa issue this year he would be back in USA with not a thought about Dublin.
For him to be played in front of any dublin player who has dedicated themselves to dublinthid last 2 years is a joke in my opinion.
On a side note that ridiculous effort he had from 50 meters out against kerry was him trying to steal the headlines by scoring the winning point. Any other player would have worked in closer to a man in a better position.
kevin03 (Tyrone) - Posts: 227 - 04/09/2019 07:21:22
Hardly a joke, nothing to get so worked up over or obsessed with.
No other player would have taken that shot, I think Brian Howard and Dean Rock would disagree.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 04/09/2019 13:48:16
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Replying To MesAmis: "Sorry Flaker, I misinterpreted what you had written.
Jury still out on the Connolly decision for me but I've no problem with him coming back in and don't see why anyone would." No problem as I said before I think the hero status towards him is a little bizarre. A superbly gifted athlete but not even the best Dublin forward in the last 10 years but some see him as the greatest of all time.
Doesn't look up to speed in my opinion. Shouldn't be in the panel.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7891 - 04/09/2019 14:12:55
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No problem as I said before I think the hero status towards him is a little bizarre. A superbly gifted athlete but not even the best Dublin forward in the last 10 years but some see him as the greatest of all time.
Doesn't look up to speed in my opinion. Shouldn't be in the panel.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6433 - 04/09/2019 14:12:55 2232745
Yeah certain players always seem to mean a little more to fans. On this Dublin team I'd say Connolly, Brogan, Cluxton, Philly Mc and maybe Kev Mc have that status.
I think of you've watched Connolly since underage, at club level and for the senior Dubs you've seen him do countless magical things on the pitch.
I hate Vinnies, I mean really hate them, but I've gone to see their seniors just to see Connolly play at times. That's the best explanation I can give you.
You could well be right and its a mistake to bring him back but we'll have to wait and see. Dublin winning the replay wouldn't necessarily mean you're wrong either.
MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13707 - 04/09/2019 14:45:30
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It was a mistake by Diarmuid Connolly to go for a point at that time, it should have been worked closer to goal, he did
however make up for it, by winning the last turnover. The biggest mistake was made by Jim Gavin in not substituting
Jonny Cooper as the writing had been on the wall.
fainleog (Limerick) - Posts: 598 - 04/09/2019 15:05:42
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Replying To MesAmis: "No problem as I said before I think the hero status towards him is a little bizarre. A superbly gifted athlete but not even the best Dublin forward in the last 10 years but some see him as the greatest of all time.
Doesn't look up to speed in my opinion. Shouldn't be in the panel.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 6433 - 04/09/2019 14:12:55 2232745
Yeah certain players always seem to mean a little more to fans. On this Dublin team I'd say Connolly, Brogan, Cluxton, Philly Mc and maybe Kev Mc have that status.
I think of you've watched Connolly since underage, at club level and for the senior Dubs you've seen him do countless magical things on the pitch.
I hate Vinnies, I mean really hate them, but I've gone to see their seniors just to see Connolly play at times. That's the best explanation I can give you.
You could well be right and its a mistake to bring him back but we'll have to wait and see. Dublin winning the replay wouldn't necessarily mean you're wrong either." Class player, no doubt about his ability. But not as consistent as other forwards in the last 10 years. People point to his impact sub role in 2017 but that is a long time ago in football terms especially for a guy who wanted to go to the States. I think Gavin could be forced into big calls the next day but not dropping him from the panel would create a circus.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 7891 - 04/09/2019 15:24:18
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Replying To fainleog: "It was a mistake by Diarmuid Connolly to go for a point at that time, it should have been worked closer to goal, he did
however make up for it, by winning the last turnover. The biggest mistake was made by Jim Gavin in not substituting
Jonny Cooper as the writing had been on the wall." Agree with all of that.I wonder what changes Gavin will make for the replay.He doesn't really seem to have that many options.Eoin Murchan was good in defence when brought on so he might be started.Cian O'Sullivan seems to be injured.He's a smart footballer who won't be getting himself sent off.Cian O'Sullivan would tighten up Dublin's defence if available.How they could do with the commanding Rory O'Carroll of a few years ago but he doesn't seem to have recovered his form since returning home from New Zealand and didn't even make the 26 last Sunday.Maybe the 5 in a row is fated never to be done.Like the Mayo curse.Seamus Darby's late goal in 82,Shefflin's injury in 2010.
endgame (Roscommon) - Posts: 2162 - 04/09/2019 15:28:29
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Disagree that it was a mistake to bring DC back. Correct decision. The problem I have, is leaving it too late to bring him on!
I don't blame him for taking that shot on, another inch to the left and he reaffirms his GOAT status. I also would have liked him to have had a pop at the last free. Made for him.
If Kerry had won that game by a point, and we had NOT gone back for him, the world and its mother would say we were wrong!
Now, I am not blind to our faults either
Dropping Brogan was a big error in my mind
Bringing Paddy Small on at that stage of that game another. Kev Mc, Connolly or Bernard would have been ideal in that situation
Not switching Johnny also a mistake
That said, I am reeling off more mistakes than ever with Jim's decisions
Add to that we lost a man, add to that Fenton and Con were out of sorts
McCarthy and Mannion also
Put all that in the pot, 14 men for 35 mins....
We STILL weren't beaten....
i am not gonna play the yerra yerra here either. I am uber confident we will win the replay
Uber confident.
COYBIB
Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 04/09/2019 15:31:44
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Nah Kerry went with a double sweeper even being a man ahead and then got men behind the ball and we had a five man attack, i think they will regret that. But Kerry are entitled t play anyway they see fit.
I feel they let us off big time playing on the back foot with the focus on repeling us and hoping for the break. Also think playing Tommy Walsh played right into our hands, freed up our back line to get forward and allowed us to sweep up around him as opposed to marking him. Obviously he made hay with the goal but that is down to an individual errors by Davey and Fitz and a bit of luck with a dropped ball as opposed to the creation of that opportunity.
Dermo was right to take the shot on, it was obviously a strategy away from our norm. Jim brought on three of our best long range kickers, in Small, Connolly and Costello, we clearly werent going to work scores through the D with the numerical disadvantage and the Kerry blanket. Kerry had us on the ropes and really should have pressed us. Happy enough about that.
The next day will be vastly different.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 04/09/2019 17:24:48
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Replying To TheUsername: "Nah Kerry went with a double sweeper even being a man ahead and then got men behind the ball and we had a five man attack, i think they will regret that. But Kerry are entitled t play anyway they see fit.
I feel they let us off big time playing on the back foot with the focus on repeling us and hoping for the break. Also think playing Tommy Walsh played right into our hands, freed up our back line to get forward and allowed us to sweep up around him as opposed to marking him. Obviously he made hay with the goal but that is down to an individual errors by Davey and Fitz and a bit of luck with a dropped ball as opposed to the creation of that opportunity.
Dermo was right to take the shot on, it was obviously a strategy away from our norm. Jim brought on three of our best long range kickers, in Small, Connolly and Costello, we clearly werent going to work scores through the D with the numerical disadvantage and the Kerry blanket. Kerry had us on the ropes and really should have pressed us. Happy enough about that.
The next day will be vastly different." Kerry didn't have a sweeper after Walsh came on
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 04/09/2019 17:50:59
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Replying To TheUsername: "Nah Kerry went with a double sweeper even being a man ahead and then got men behind the ball and we had a five man attack, i think they will regret that. But Kerry are entitled t play anyway they see fit.
I feel they let us off big time playing on the back foot with the focus on repeling us and hoping for the break. Also think playing Tommy Walsh played right into our hands, freed up our back line to get forward and allowed us to sweep up around him as opposed to marking him. Obviously he made hay with the goal but that is down to an individual errors by Davey and Fitz and a bit of luck with a dropped ball as opposed to the creation of that opportunity.
Dermo was right to take the shot on, it was obviously a strategy away from our norm. Jim brought on three of our best long range kickers, in Small, Connolly and Costello, we clearly werent going to work scores through the D with the numerical disadvantage and the Kerry blanket. Kerry had us on the ropes and really should have pressed us. Happy enough about that.
The next day will be vastly different." At one stage late in the 2nd half every player bar Cluxton was inside the Kerry 40
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12118 - 04/09/2019 18:03:32
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Actually reading back on your post we must have been at a different match. Kerry didn't have a double sweeper at any stage. What they did do was get back in numbers to protect the D when they didn't have the ball, pretty similar to what Dublin do tbh.
Murphy was ft sweeper after Cooper was sent off but they abandoned that when they started making the changes. We can attribute 1-1 to 1-2 directly to Walsh after he came in and he intercepted a poor Cluxton kick out but put it wide. I'm not sure how that plays in to Dublin's hands? When Dublin hemmed Kerry I'm at the end Walsh was relatively free but they just couldn't find him.
It was a mistake not pushing on sooner because I think if they had really went for it after half time they'd probably have won. Hindsight is 20/20
Next match will be different without a doubt and if Kerry's chance is gone so be it. They got a lot closer than anybody thought they could.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 04/09/2019 18:11:10
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Replying To Breffni39: "At one stage late in the 2nd half every player bar Cluxton was inside the Kerry 40" *1st half sorry
Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12118 - 04/09/2019 18:18:07
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Replying To Breffni39: "At one stage late in the 2nd half every player bar Cluxton was inside the Kerry 40" Common enough occurrence in a lot of games the way football has evolved tbh
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 04/09/2019 18:30:30
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Replying To TheUsername: "Nah Kerry went with a double sweeper even being a man ahead and then got men behind the ball and we had a five man attack, i think they will regret that. But Kerry are entitled t play anyway they see fit.
I feel they let us off big time playing on the back foot with the focus on repeling us and hoping for the break. Also think playing Tommy Walsh played right into our hands, freed up our back line to get forward and allowed us to sweep up around him as opposed to marking him. Obviously he made hay with the goal but that is down to an individual errors by Davey and Fitz and a bit of luck with a dropped ball as opposed to the creation of that opportunity.
Dermo was right to take the shot on, it was obviously a strategy away from our norm. Jim brought on three of our best long range kickers, in Small, Connolly and Costello, we clearly werent going to work scores through the D with the numerical disadvantage and the Kerry blanket. Kerry had us on the ropes and really should have pressed us. Happy enough about that.
The next day will be vastly different." Tommy Walsh nearly won the game for Kerry. He was involved in setting up Spillanes goal,another point,a point for himself and had a miss himself. I think he rescued Kerry to be honest. He's a great athlete and player to have on the bench that's for sure.
seanie_boy (Tyrone) - Posts: 4235 - 04/09/2019 21:33:19
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If he's going well in training I think Dublin have to start Connolly the next day, I also think Bernard Brogan should be on the bench, again I don't know how he's going in training but if he is going well he would be a great option to have in a tight finish, I think it's going to be close again and I wouldn't be surprised to see Kerry play as well or better again, 15 v 15 it's hard to call, could come down to a decision going either way. Tommy Walsh should also start, even bring him on and of if necessary, he changes up the dynamic of the Kerry attack, I think Clifford will have a better game the next day, he done well in the drawn game but missed a few good chances too, can't wait.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 2747 - 04/09/2019 22:15:48
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Replying To GeniusGerry: "Actually reading back on your post we must have been at a different match. Kerry didn't have a double sweeper at any stage. What they did do was get back in numbers to protect the D when they didn't have the ball, pretty similar to what Dublin do tbh.
Murphy was ft sweeper after Cooper was sent off but they abandoned that when they started making the changes. We can attribute 1-1 to 1-2 directly to Walsh after he came in and he intercepted a poor Cluxton kick out but put it wide. I'm not sure how that plays in to Dublin's hands? When Dublin hemmed Kerry I'm at the end Walsh was relatively free but they just couldn't find him.
It was a mistake not pushing on sooner because I think if they had really went for it after half time they'd probably have won. Hindsight is 20/20
Next match will be different without a doubt and if Kerry's chance is gone so be it. They got a lot closer than anybody thought they could." I think we may well have been at different games. I thought i was being uncontroversial calling it a double sweeper, you can use any semantics, blanket defense, double/triple sweeper, getting everyone back behind the ball, its the same outcome in a lot of phases of play there was line between your half back and full back line. Its the old Donnie Buckley rotation protecting the D we saw bring joy to Mayo over the years against us.
Its fine its not a criticism Kerry can set up any way they want to achieve what the manager things is the best outcome in any phase and why wouldn't they Dublin are the most dangerous team in the country for scoring. It was notable in a few phases after half time, when the advantage and numerical advantage needed to be pressed and in the last phase of the game.
What was notable was that we haven't come up against the blancket a lot this year and we looked rusty at it, obviously being a man down didnt help. Hopefully we improve the next day.
I dont agree that Dublin defensive system and Kerry are the same, we are a bit more risky overall, yes we get men back, but Dublin will always cough up chances, because we take risks at the back in our offensive play and if you play at the back you also have to have an offensive role. To give an example our defenders were our best scoring line in the game on Sunday.
We also rarely do back to the wall defending like Kerry in the last 10 mins, we do percentage defending, for example Kerry will think they missed a lot of frees in the first half, they didnt, Dublin force teams in to taking low success percentage shots, trust me that accounts for Kerry wides up until the sending off, look at how many wides teams hit against Dublin. There is always a risk of getting in behind mind as we can be open, Killian goal is an example. Of course our defensive structure was shot to pieces after Jonny went.
Which bring me to TW, yes Dublin will always cough up scores, because we take risks. TW came on and had a good impact as a forward, he got a point and was a unit in there, taht fine we always accept the risk. One thing though, Davey Byrne was very unluky to drop the ball, lets be honest. TW did well to pick it up and pass it, but it was an error rather then a brilliant bit of play.
When TW came on within about 2 mins you saw Brian Howard dance through Kerry lines and begin to have a huge impact on the game, TW is getting close to marking him. So on comes Murchan, one of the speediest players in the Dublin team and immediately gets involved in cutting down offensively the Kerry central channel. TW and his lack of mobility, gave Dublin the freedom for their half backs to flood up the filed resulting in Kerry being under the kosh for the last 10 mins.
There are of course pros and cons to TW hes a threat, but also unleashes and frees up Dublin line as they know we can recover. I think Cluxton finished up marking him, a risk certainly bit that our defense we take risks, but gives you a sense of what our plan was TW, he might impact but we back ourselves to impact more with what he frees up.
Like you say though its a fascinating battle, with 15 Vs 15. Watching it back, we were doing very, very well up to the sending off. I think it might have been our biggest half time lead in a final this era, but i could be corrected on that.
I agree by the way, Kerry let us out of jail big time, could you image what would be written about Mayo or even Tyrone if the didn't turn us over with 14 men for 42 mins.
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4445 - 04/09/2019 22:36:33
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Big difference between what most GAA fans would call a blanket defence and what Kerry did the last day though would you not agree? Not trying to be pedantic but your post had more than a hint of smugness about it.
Dublin were motoring nicely before the sending off but Kerry had left 2-3 or 2-4 on the table at that stage with some very disappointing misses. They weren't low percentage misses either as you are suggesting, a penalty, a shot from inside the area cleared off the line and several point attempts from in and around the D that were going over in previous games. The scoreboard didn't tell the full story of the half and who knows what happens if the sending off didn't occur. Most people would assume Dublin continues their purple patch and closes out a comprehensive victory but we don't know for sure.
As for Byrne dropping the ball, many scores have an element of luck or a mistake in them. It's not like he dropped it in the square, Spillane had quite a bit to do when he picked that ball up.
TW was left free at times towards the end when Dublin had no choice but to go for broke because they were about to be beaten but I'm not buying that that it is a routine or systematic thing. If they were 2-3 points up there is simply no way that happens because it's just too risky. They went for it and fair play it worked, their experience and know how was huge in those closing stages, as was their incredible conditioning. And yes it was backs to the wall for Kerry in added time.
It should be noted that Kerry took huge risks too, particularly on Dublin restarts and got caught for 1-2 from it in the first half.
GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2105 - 05/09/2019 01:04:04
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