In many ways, Dublin have not been tested in the championship this year, and maybe last year too. The finals against Mayo in 07 and 06 were electric and very exciting games and only for Mayo's own goals, change of goalie and Vaughan's red card, we may not be coming up to Dublin's potential 5 in a row. Without a doubt though, Dublin, the players, the set up and team work is pretty amazing; seems like you can put any type of game to them and they can find a way. They may have gone up another level in the last two years; their demolishing of Tyrone in the final last year and more or less, every team that they have met in the championship this year, makes me wonder if any team can keep up with them; a bit like Kilkenny in their dominance.
Kerry's team is collectively young and without as much experience of Croke Park All Ireland senior finals as Dublin, but possibly enough winners of minor, 2014 senior and I think two 2009 senior (David Moran as a sub and Killian Young) to believe on a practical level that it can be done. They have the skill but it may be too early for them. Still, Kerry, in the past, have been energized about being an underdog going into a final and going back to my opening statement, Dublin may not have been tested in recent times or, they are just on a higher level to the Kerry, Tyrone, Donegal and Mayo's of the championship.
Ciarrai Abu. Gotta believe!!
kerrykerry (Kerry) - Posts: 1779 - 23/08/2019 22:09:38
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Replying To baire: "Wasn't there more excitement about the Dubs in the leaner years? Is it not the case when a team wins 3 or four in a row that some supporters switch off? Neutrals do anyway and some within the winning county, eg Kerry & KK and now Dublin - all wonderful teams but the interest wanes except amongst the real fan(atic)s." Yeah I think this is probably true. It's a bit like sex I suppose.You can't wait to consummate the relationship but after a few years it becomes more of a duty. ... interest does wane.....
NOT.....I love the f**kin' Dubs.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 2004 - 23/08/2019 22:13:09
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Replying To realdub: "Yeh its true. I can take stick off the culchies, it's the rubbish from our 'own' I have a problem with. And God knows we get lots of it up here in the smoke. The soccer crowd hate us, I remember going in for pints after our big games in the early 90s and the abuse off 'Dublin' lads over being rubbish and not good enough to win etc, turned my stomach and got me in trouble." Yep. Been there. I swear this is true. My ex-wife used to take the Dublin flag out of the window as soon as my car turned the corner. She and her family played cricket for Clontarf and she absolutely hated GAA. It became a bone of contention....one of many I might add.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 2004 - 23/08/2019 22:17:02
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Replying To Jackeen: "Dara sums it up perfectly.
Over the next 10 days, everyone will have their say about the football final.
The only thing more talked about than an All-Ireland final is a Dublin-Kerry All-Ireland final and, since this one comes with the possibility of a five-in-a-row attached, it's going to be the biggest thing in the country next week. When there's that much noise, it can be all blend into one after a while.
The one thing that doesn't ring true so far is this idea that because Kerry have a young team and because it's Peter Keane's first year, they nearly have a free swing at it on Sunday week. I even heard someone say the other day that Kerry are in bonus territory. I half expected a bolt of lightning to come down and take care of the poor lad who said it.
Bonus territory is the All Stars after you win the All-Ireland. It's the team holiday later in the winter. It's the barman waiting till the gardaí have done their rounds and driven away before he calls you out of the cellar for a last few before home time. Playing in an All-Ireland final isn't bonus territory. That isn't how it works.
Losing is never okay down here, not in an ordinary game and definitely not in an All-Ireland final An All-Ireland final is a day to be attacked. That has to be the attitude. I remember Diarmuid Connolly saying in an interview on the pitch after one of the Dublin final wins that they hadn't set out to defend the All-Ireland, they had set out to attack it.
That's exactly the way you have to be. You can't be drinking in talk about bonus territory or it being a good year whatever happens. That kind of stuff is poison in the water in the run up to a final.
Everybody knows what they know about the Dubs. They're the best Dublin team ever, the best team from any county in the past 30 years, they're an awesome outfit to be planning for a final against. But if anyone thinks Kerry people will just shrug and tell the lads to go on away up to the city there and see what happens, they haven't really been around Kerry football very much.
The last thing Kerry people will give the team over the next 10 days is an excuse to lose. Losing is never okay down here, not in an ordinary game and definitely not in an All-Ireland final.
I saw Jim Gavin saying during the Dublin press day something along the lines of Kerry's time being now, not in a couple of years. And yes, of course he has to say that. No more than Peter Keane, everything he says in the build-up to the final is just window dressing. But that doesn't make it untrue.
It doesn't matter a damn that the Kerry team is young and full of potential. They're not being picked because of what they might do in the future. They're being picked for what they can offer now. Their potential is all fine and dandy but it doesn't exist past Sunday week.
Kerry aren't going with youth out of necessity or because they have no choice in the matter. Keane has plenty of options. There is no shortage of footballers in the county. Somebody sent me a clip the other day of Barry John Keane scoring the winning goal in the Boston championship last Sunday. If there was a sniff of a call for a final, someone like Barry John would swim home to get in on it.
Huge opportunity But he's playing in Boston because Kerry have David Clifford and Seán O'Shea and Killian Spillane and a few others who Keane thinks are better than him. Not younger than him - that's irrelevant. It's a bit of a bonus alright, in that they have time to improve over the coming years. But it means nothing in relation to the final.
This is a huge opportunity for Kerry. The vast majority of footballers never get to play in an All-Ireland final. You never know when you're going to be back. We don't know what the starting team will be for Kerry against the Dubs yet but you'd imagine either nine or 10 of them will be playing in their first final. You can be fairly sure that not all of them will get back to play in a second one.
Some lads will get injured, some will lose form, some will get bypassed by someone else on the panel. Kerry won't always win their semi-final or, like last year, they won't always get out of their Super 8s group. It's all very well saying Kerry have these great underage teams feeding into the senior set-up and that they're bound to be sorted for the next decade. But getting to a final isn't a given in any year.
And even for those who do get back, who's to say they'll have a better chance to win one than this? Andy Moran played in his first All-Ireland final in 2004, Keith Higgins played in his first one in 2006. Here we are, a decade and a half later, and both of them have played in half a dozen without getting one over the line.
The big difference between the Mayo teams of this decade as opposed to the ones they started out playing in is that it's a long time since anyone talked about Mayo having a great year because they got to a final. There's no such thing as bonus territory for them in finals. You either win it out or the whole thing is another scar to carry around with you.
I don't buy this idea that Kerry have nothing to lose. They have an All-Ireland final to lose. Trust me, that's plenty The same will go for Kerry if they are beaten on Sunday week. Losing an All-Ireland final stays with you forever. I don't care if you're 20 or 35, the world is a colder place for you in the days and weeks and months after you've been beaten in one. There is no sense of, 'Ah sure look, we've plenty more chances'. All you get is a winter of people either not talking to you about it or, worse, earnestly telling you their theory on how it all went wrong.
Go to any GAA pub or clubhouse in the country and there'll be pictures of famous county teams from the past up on the walls. In some counties, those pictures might be from winning league titles or provincial titles or maybe even getting to All-Ireland finals. Not in Kerry. When the season is over, nobody in Kerry will be getting the screwdrivers out to hang a photo of the 2019 Munster champions. Or the All-Ireland runners-up.
When I started playing senior intercounty away back in medieval times, I came through with a heap of other young players from teams that won back-to-back All-Ireland under-21 titles. We all broke onto the scene at more or less the same time and big things were expected. Nobody was going, 'Ah look, they're only young.' It was more, 'They could be good, let's see them go and do it'.
Only thing You don't get leeway for being young. It took me three years of championship football before I was on a winning team against Cork - and I heard all about it. Nobody in Kerry was interested in our age. They were only interested in the fact that we didn't seem to be any great shakes.
We made it to our first All-Ireland final in 1997 and it was against Mayo, who had beaten us well the previous year in the semi-final. Everyone thought they were subsequently robbed out of the All-Ireland with the drawn final against Meath and the big row in the replay. They were back again the following year and everyone had them down as favourites. We were only young lads and we were coming up against giants such as Liam McHale, James Nallen, Pat Holmes and the boys.
The likes of Dublin's Jack McCaffrey and and Paul Mannion (above celebrating last year's final win) weren't treating 2013 like it was a free swing. And they were younger then than Clifford and O'Shea and the Spillanes are now. Photograph: Ryan Byrne/Inpho P Sé was our manager and I remember him having this thing all through the year, breaking it down in terms of time. After we beat Clare in the Munster final he said, "Lads, we're an hour and 10 minutes of good football away from an All-Ireland final. And we're quarehawks in finals".
And so we were.
Now, you can roll your eyes at that kind of stuff if you want. But Kerry football has been built on generations of teams finding a way to win All-Irelands. Some of them as favourites, some of them not. It's the only thing that counts.
A few years ago, after he won Footballer of the Year in 2014, James O'Donoghue said something about nearly being embarrassed before the final because he already had an All Star but he had no All-Ireland. Because he'd been in such good form through the summer, he was nearly guaranteed another All Star no matter what happened in the final and the thought of having two of them but no All-Ireland medal to go along with them was picking at him. As if he'd nearly feel wrong about walking around Killarney like that.
An All-Ireland final is never a stepping stone or a building block. Maybe when you're years down the line you can look back on it like that but the Kerry camp has to be ruthless in clearing out any whisper of that between now and the final.
Yes, the Dubs are great now but go back to Gavin's first year and they had a lot of young players back then too. The likes of Jack McCaffrey and Ciarán Kilkenny and Paul Mannion weren't treating 2013 like it was a free swing. And they were younger then than Clifford and O'Shea and the Spillanes are now.
That's why I don't buy this idea that Kerry have nothing to lose. They have an All-Ireland final to lose. Trust me, that's plenty." For a moment I thought you had actually made a contribution ..... but well done on the copy & pasting none the less.
greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 967 - 23/08/2019 23:22:17
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Replying To TheUsername: "Ive never seen anything like Jack McCaffery in a parade, breaking his cake, laughing, joking. messing and pulling faces into the crowd, im pretty certain he doesn't even know its final." Sure he will have an even bigger grin this year knowing his Da's colleague is the ref.
greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 967 - 23/08/2019 23:23:46
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Replying To avonali: "Yeah I think this is probably true. It's a bit like sex I suppose.You can't wait to consummate the relationship but after a few years it becomes more of a duty. ... interest does wane.....
NOT.....I love the f**kin' Dubs." Quite an inappropriate post.
greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 967 - 23/08/2019 23:32:13
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Replying To greysoil: "For a moment I thought you had actually made a contribution ..... but well done on the copy & pasting none the less." I'm sure the irony of that post won't be lost on you.
Joxer (Dublin) - Posts: 4748 - 24/08/2019 00:28:09
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Replying To greysoil: "Quite an inappropriate post." As miserable as they come.....Look at your last 3 posts...misery and negativity. Jesus wept.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 2004 - 24/08/2019 00:40:22
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Replying To greysoil: "Sure he will have an even bigger grin this year knowing his Da's colleague is the ref." Have noticed an emerging unsavoury tone by some posters of late. Indeed, what is surprising is the posts that are being generated by users that would have appeared level headed before. There is no place for personal slights on players or indirectly on their families. Important to remember that these are amateurs giving a big chunk of their time to their counties & for our entertainment. Keep the slagging general. We never know the impact of flippant commentary. #Give respect. Get respect.
greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 635 - 04/06/2019 22:10:02
http://www.hoganstand.com/County/National/Forum/Details/107392?PageNumber=0#msg_2190705
;)
TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4518 - 24/08/2019 07:18:52
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Replying To realdub: "Yeh its true. I can take stick off the culchies, it's the rubbish from our 'own' I have a problem with. And God knows we get lots of it up here in the smoke. The soccer crowd hate us, I remember going in for pints after our big games in the early 90s and the abuse off 'Dublin' lads over being rubbish and not good enough to win etc, turned my stomach and got me in trouble." Very true. I remember a work colleague, a big premiership fan, in Dublin, hearing me mention an AI final a few years ago, asked me if "the Gah" was over for this year. I said that it was, at intercounty level anyway. "Great", he replied, "I can't stand that [deleted] rubbish!". Or the Receptionist who, on hearing that some colleagues cars had been vandalised and broken into over the weekend, remarked that it was " probably some GAA fans". Or the weirdness of being at lunch with senior management colleagues, after a final or semi final involving Dublin, being surrounded by Dubs (though with their pointy-mouthed accents, it's more like "Dabs" ) and not a single mention of the game. Not one. So I try and bring the conversation round to the match, just for the crack. The eyes narrow. "Oh, you follow the old Gah, do you?". Snigger. "It's a bit rough, isn't it?". And so on.
It has improved a lot in the last decade though. There's a whole new middle-class demographic (and not all of them culchie blow-ins) now taking their kids to trailing; people who in the past wouldn't have been caught dead near a Garlic match. From what my better half says, it seems as if it's the youngsters who are changing the parents in some cases.
A classic for me was when Rugby matches were held at Croke Park for a while - remember how the Irish Times actually published a map telling readers how to get there.
PS: for the good of the game, I was hoping to see a Kerry win, but the nice gesture at the A McAnespie memorial now has me torn. Once you get past the (shocking to a mumbly culchie) noise, the Dubs are the jolliest and most fair-minded fans you could ever meet; and the current Dublin team are very modest lads. I'll just have to see how the game goes. If the ref is throwing bones to one team, then I'll just cheer for the other team.
essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 1141 - 24/08/2019 09:18:32
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Replying To TheUsername: "Have noticed an emerging unsavoury tone by some posters of late. Indeed, what is surprising is the posts that are being generated by users that would have appeared level headed before. There is no place for personal slights on players or indirectly on their families. Important to remember that these are amateurs giving a big chunk of their time to their counties & for our entertainment. Keep the slagging general. We never know the impact of flippant commentary. #Give respect. Get respect. greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 635 - 04/06/2019 22:10:02 http://www.hoganstand.com/County/National/Forum/Details/107392?PageNumber=0#msg_2190705;)" Stating a fact in response to your silly post. Hardly a slight?
greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 967 - 24/08/2019 10:06:52
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Replying To avonali: "As miserable as they come.....Look at your last 3 posts...misery and negativity. Jesus wept." You think?
greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 967 - 24/08/2019 10:07:31
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Replying To Joxer: "I'm sure the irony of that post won't be lost on you." No it isn't. Thanks.
greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 967 - 24/08/2019 10:08:34
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Replying To TheUsername: "Have noticed an emerging unsavoury tone by some posters of late. Indeed, what is surprising is the posts that are being generated by users that would have appeared level headed before. There is no place for personal slights on players or indirectly on their families. Important to remember that these are amateurs giving a big chunk of their time to their counties & for our entertainment. Keep the slagging general. We never know the impact of flippant commentary. #Give respect. Get respect. greysoil (Monaghan) - Posts: 635 - 04/06/2019 22:10:02 http://www.hoganstand.com/County/National/Forum/Details/107392?PageNumber=0#msg_2190705;)" Well spotted!!!!! The utter hypocrisy of it.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 2004 - 24/08/2019 10:10:33
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Replying To avonali: "I think those of us who follow GAA either had parents from strong football/hurling families or went to school in an area where GAA was strong. My Dad played for North Kerry and a cousin of mine played for Kerry- he only retired in the last few years. I went to school in Marino so St Vincents was the local club. I drove down to see a sick uncle a few years ago and was blown away by the display of colour. From Abbeyfeale on it was the green and gold. The community was bound up in its loyalty to their county. It's much more diluted up here. I guarantee you reithi there'll be pubs in Dublin showing a premiership match rather than the All-Ireland.
If we lose there will be a nice quiet soccer pub to go into so I can drown my sorrows." Avonali as someone from not too far back from Abbeyfeale, not too far atall.....let me tell you, Abbeyfeale is in Limerick, and don't you forget it!!!! :) :)
I have a very complicated relationship with Kerry myself. I can't stand losing to Kerry. Nothing is worse. I can't stand Kerry football. I cheer for Cork in Munster finals as if I were born and raised by the Lee! I hate the patronising attitude of so many Kerry fans. The superior attitude. There was a kerry fan on the news after the semi final, he was asked how will they beat the Dubs, his answer "same way we always do, sure they can never beat us".....and I am sitting there seething!! Bigger fool me!! :)
But........
I love Kerry. Kerry is literally my favourite place in the world, bar none. West Kerry is where I want to retire. The people are the nicest, soundest most genuine you will meet. The scenery, the atmosphere, everything about the place is idyllic. I come from Kerry stock ffs! Rock St Tralee of all places!! All my favourite non Dublin/Limerick footballers, were Kerrymen. Tomas is a prince, Maurice a King. Marc O'Se a legend.
I love Kerry. I love Kerry people. Just....don't talk to them about football!!
UP THE DUBS!
Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 24/08/2019 10:18:22
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I'm from Rock St myself Liam, John's Park, gone for yrs now, living in Meath working in Dublin, married to a Monaghan woman!!!! Who was your stock from Rock St
bernard3 (Kerry) - Posts: 106 - 24/08/2019 10:52:54
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Replying To bernard3: "I'm from Rock St myself Liam, John's Park, gone for yrs now, living in Meath working in Dublin, married to a Monaghan woman!!!! Who was your stock from Rock St" Couldn't be telling that now!!!! Tisn't the most common of surnames :) Safe to say, as Rockie as could be!!! Still have family in Tralee but they are Kerins !
Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 24/08/2019 11:33:16
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Replying To Liamwalkinstown: "Avonali as someone from not too far back from Abbeyfeale, not too far atall.....let me tell you, Abbeyfeale is in Limerick, and don't you forget it!!!! :) :)
I have a very complicated relationship with Kerry myself. I can't stand losing to Kerry. Nothing is worse. I can't stand Kerry football. I cheer for Cork in Munster finals as if I were born and raised by the Lee! I hate the patronising attitude of so many Kerry fans. The superior attitude. There was a kerry fan on the news after the semi final, he was asked how will they beat the Dubs, his answer "same way we always do, sure they can never beat us".....and I am sitting there seething!! Bigger fool me!! :)
But........
I love Kerry. Kerry is literally my favourite place in the world, bar none. West Kerry is where I want to retire. The people are the nicest, soundest most genuine you will meet. The scenery, the atmosphere, everything about the place is idyllic. I come from Kerry stock ffs! Rock St Tralee of all places!! All my favourite non Dublin/Limerick footballers, were Kerrymen. Tomas is a prince, Maurice a King. Marc O'Se a legend.
I love Kerry. I love Kerry people. Just....don't talk to them about football!!
UP THE DUBS!" West Kerry is heaven on earth Liam although it's tough down here in the winter, it's probably why we're such hard people.
KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 24/08/2019 12:58:05
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Replying To Liamwalkinstown: "Avonali as someone from not too far back from Abbeyfeale, not too far atall.....let me tell you, Abbeyfeale is in Limerick, and don't you forget it!!!! :) :)
I have a very complicated relationship with Kerry myself. I can't stand losing to Kerry. Nothing is worse. I can't stand Kerry football. I cheer for Cork in Munster finals as if I were born and raised by the Lee! I hate the patronising attitude of so many Kerry fans. The superior attitude. There was a kerry fan on the news after the semi final, he was asked how will they beat the Dubs, his answer "same way we always do, sure they can never beat us".....and I am sitting there seething!! Bigger fool me!! :)
But........
I love Kerry. Kerry is literally my favourite place in the world, bar none. West Kerry is where I want to retire. The people are the nicest, soundest most genuine you will meet. The scenery, the atmosphere, everything about the place is idyllic. I come from Kerry stock ffs! Rock St Tralee of all places!! All my favourite non Dublin/Limerick footballers, were Kerrymen. Tomas is a prince, Maurice a King. Marc O'Se a legend.
I love Kerry. I love Kerry people. Just....don't talk to them about football!!
UP THE DUBS!" Well, Liam I'm up to my neck organising my mum's 90th today. But I will answer your post at greater length later. My father's family weren't townies. They hailed from a place called Curraheen which was situated between Blennerville and Camp on the Dingle Road from Tralee. Beautiful, stunning part of the world. The Slieve Mish Mountains are imprinted on my memory.ON wet days they were dark and gloomy but when the sun shone they lit up like a cathedral window. I could go on and on about my feelings for Kerry. There was an Oedipal element to it that emerged every time Dublin played Kerry.
avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 2004 - 24/08/2019 13:07:09
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Replying To avonali: "Well, Liam I'm up to my neck organising my mum's 90th today. But I will answer your post at greater length later. My father's family weren't townies. They hailed from a place called Curraheen which was situated between Blennerville and Camp on the Dingle Road from Tralee. Beautiful, stunning part of the world. The Slieve Mish Mountains are imprinted on my memory.ON wet days they were dark and gloomy but when the sun shone they lit up like a cathedral window. I could go on and on about my feelings for Kerry. There was an Oedipal element to it that emerged every time Dublin played Kerry." I know it well :) Often stopped in Keanes of Curaheen for a sup My heart is in Castlegregory, or, well, a little parish called Aughcashla, between Camp and Castlegregory I am not exaggerating when I say it is THE greatest place in the world on a nice day. From Camp village as far as Stradbally, and all the beaches in between, Shore Acre, Maherabeg in particular. I absolutely LOVE Kerry
I also can't stand them tho ;)
Liamwalkinstown (Dublin) - Posts: 8166 - 24/08/2019 14:26:45
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