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Disingenuous, Disgusting, Odious, Nasty!!

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Replying To ballydalane:  "When Gavin said that the game against Roscommon was a tough test (or words to that effect) he was being disingenuous. But then, I think every GAA manager in the history of the game is disingenuous, because they all say the same bloody thing! "Tough game.... Scoreline not a fair reflection on the game..... We got the breaks at the right time..... Bla bla bla". I've yet to hear one manager say, "actually, that was just as easy as I thought it'd be".

The other comments about him, if true (I haven't read the tweet), were scurrilous."
Interesting that a KK man says this.... because I recall the greatest manager of all Brian Cody saying after a game in which they absolutely hammered Offaly that it was not a good day for Offaly Hurling and not where they should be and the type of result was no good for KK either. And he said it in away that was genuine as a hurling man who loves tough, uncompromising games and the sport he loves. Jim Gavin just does not come across as genuine in his interviews and his lecture a few years ago about the "ideals of the republic" was breathtakingly arrogant - I think even he copped that afterwards and never mentioned it again in the context of the Diarmuid Connolly (unjust) ban. A Taoiseach or President belongs in a discussion about the ideals of the Republic. I believe his positioning and narrative is well calculated and choreographed to psychologically battle other counties - mild mannered references to his squad, internal matches, the Dublin GAA Medical Team etc... All to quietly create an aura around Dublin beyond their amazing ability on the pitch. And for those reasons I would be wary of him and not particularly fond of him. That said his contribution to Dublin has been immense both at senior and underage and I'm sure he is a good, solid citizen in general.

DonegalAtlantic (Donegal) - Posts: 114 - 22/07/2019 23:56:46    2215051

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Judging by the reaction to him on here, he has achieved his goal sadly.

ponga (Mayo) - Posts: 658 - 23/07/2019 08:34:08    2215073

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Incredible if he really used those words. I don't follow him on twitter and I don't know the context of what he was saying but that kind of language is unacceptable. His hatred of Dublin must be actually driving him crazy at this stage.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2113 - 23/07/2019 09:36:52    2215091

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Replying To DonegalAtlantic:  "Interesting that a KK man says this.... because I recall the greatest manager of all Brian Cody saying after a game in which they absolutely hammered Offaly that it was not a good day for Offaly Hurling and not where they should be and the type of result was no good for KK either. And he said it in away that was genuine as a hurling man who loves tough, uncompromising games and the sport he loves. Jim Gavin just does not come across as genuine in his interviews and his lecture a few years ago about the "ideals of the republic" was breathtakingly arrogant - I think even he copped that afterwards and never mentioned it again in the context of the Diarmuid Connolly (unjust) ban. A Taoiseach or President belongs in a discussion about the ideals of the Republic. I believe his positioning and narrative is well calculated and choreographed to psychologically battle other counties - mild mannered references to his squad, internal matches, the Dublin GAA Medical Team etc... All to quietly create an aura around Dublin beyond their amazing ability on the pitch. And for those reasons I would be wary of him and not particularly fond of him. That said his contribution to Dublin has been immense both at senior and underage and I'm sure he is a good, solid citizen in general."
To be fair, he says every manager does it.

waynoI (Dublin) - Posts: 13654 - 23/07/2019 11:01:46    2215144

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Replying To DonegalAtlantic:  "Interesting that a KK man says this.... because I recall the greatest manager of all Brian Cody saying after a game in which they absolutely hammered Offaly that it was not a good day for Offaly Hurling and not where they should be and the type of result was no good for KK either. And he said it in away that was genuine as a hurling man who loves tough, uncompromising games and the sport he loves. Jim Gavin just does not come across as genuine in his interviews and his lecture a few years ago about the "ideals of the republic" was breathtakingly arrogant - I think even he copped that afterwards and never mentioned it again in the context of the Diarmuid Connolly (unjust) ban. A Taoiseach or President belongs in a discussion about the ideals of the Republic. I believe his positioning and narrative is well calculated and choreographed to psychologically battle other counties - mild mannered references to his squad, internal matches, the Dublin GAA Medical Team etc... All to quietly create an aura around Dublin beyond their amazing ability on the pitch. And for those reasons I would be wary of him and not particularly fond of him. That said his contribution to Dublin has been immense both at senior and underage and I'm sure he is a good, solid citizen in general."
Ok, some genuinely good points there. However...psychology is a part of the game, in all sports. What he says in probably always calculated to serve his teams interest. I take your point about Cody, but even he along with all other managers will mostly speak and act only to serve their teams interests. The dummy team a good example. McKenna or anyone else do not have to like Gavin and can be 'wary' as you say of him. That is their right. But to use those other words about Gavin or anyone that he does not know outside of his persona as Dublin manager is a... well, a disgusting thing to do.

CornAghais91 (Dublin) - Posts: 126 - 23/07/2019 13:53:54    2215259

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Replying To CornAghais91:  "Ok, some genuinely good points there. However...psychology is a part of the game, in all sports. What he says in probably always calculated to serve his teams interest. I take your point about Cody, but even he along with all other managers will mostly speak and act only to serve their teams interests. The dummy team a good example. McKenna or anyone else do not have to like Gavin and can be 'wary' as you say of him. That is their right. But to use those other words about Gavin or anyone that he does not know outside of his persona as Dublin manager is a... well, a disgusting thing to do."
People forget that Gavin is an expert on hype, media influence and Dublin GAA, he was part of the team in the early to mid 90's that saw its impact in heightening expectations and lashing it gave its failures in three all Ireland defeats only to come home 95.

Media, hype and expectation as always been an undermining force for Dublin until now.

Id say an awful lot, the negative media stuff by Ewan and others - i remember Paul Kimmage also doing a hatchet job on Jim after the 2017 final on newstalk, is frustration in that hes given them nothing. looks at Diarmuid Connolly news last week, id say they are all furious with them - then we get comments like this, the veil slips and credibility (such as it was) is lost.

Good on Jim, the dog is wagging the tail and the tail doesnt like it. ;)

TheUsername (Dublin) - Posts: 4516 - 23/07/2019 14:13:01    2215269

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I think the measure of as man like MacKenna was shown when he liked a particularly horrific tweet about the attack on Jonny Cooper and then deleted that 'like' when the heat came on. The adjectives he used to describe JG are the very ones I'd apply to him. He likes to take pot shots at winners just to remain 'relevant'.Disgusting is right.

avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1991 - 23/07/2019 16:12:16    2215324

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OK I give up, 4 attempts to post on this thread, innocuous and factual, enough is enough!

realdub (Dublin) - Posts: 8753 - 23/07/2019 17:07:45    2215348

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Replying To realdub:  "OK I give up, 4 attempts to post on this thread, innocuous and factual, enough is enough!"
Maybe try twitter ;)

cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5246 - 23/07/2019 17:10:19    2215352

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Replying To realdub:  "OK I give up, 4 attempts to post on this thread, innocuous and factual, enough is enough!"
Unfortunately Ewan can say what he wants (even if he has to delete his own words for fear of exposing his undeniable ignorance)

But how dare you try post a rebuttal on HS

Listen he's been very blatantly exposed and it was his own words that did it..

It's always the way.

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 23/07/2019 17:14:13    2215355

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Replying To cavanman47:  "Maybe try twitter ;)"
The policies of admin on HS is one of the deepest mysteries.
Utterly fickle and inconsistent.
Often influenced by certain posters as to what should remain and what should be deleted.
Too heavily monitored at times ; on the other hand, something spiteful and ignorant is allowed to stand. I often suspect they have an agenda. Posters like legend with his wummery and insistence on refusing to call Dublin by its proper name seem to enjoy full access. Posters who inadvertently post the same message twice will be glad to see their additional post included while people can spend a while putting together a post just to have it block on the most tenuous grounds.
I once made a pertinent post about the importance of child welfare in the GAA only have it blocked . Ridiculous.

avonali (Dublin) - Posts: 1991 - 23/07/2019 18:07:39    2215383

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Replying To DonegalAtlantic:  "Interesting that a KK man says this.... because I recall the greatest manager of all Brian Cody saying after a game in which they absolutely hammered Offaly that it was not a good day for Offaly Hurling and not where they should be and the type of result was no good for KK either. And he said it in away that was genuine as a hurling man who loves tough, uncompromising games and the sport he loves. Jim Gavin just does not come across as genuine in his interviews and his lecture a few years ago about the "ideals of the republic" was breathtakingly arrogant - I think even he copped that afterwards and never mentioned it again in the context of the Diarmuid Connolly (unjust) ban. A Taoiseach or President belongs in a discussion about the ideals of the Republic. I believe his positioning and narrative is well calculated and choreographed to psychologically battle other counties - mild mannered references to his squad, internal matches, the Dublin GAA Medical Team etc... All to quietly create an aura around Dublin beyond their amazing ability on the pitch. And for those reasons I would be wary of him and not particularly fond of him. That said his contribution to Dublin has been immense both at senior and underage and I'm sure he is a good, solid citizen in general."
In the days when Kilkenny would beat teams handy, I do remember Cody getting a lot of flak on the hurling forums for talking up the competitiveness of games, either beforehand or afterwards. "We're expecting a massive challenge from Offaly on Sunday".

"Ah would ya come off it Cody, you know ye're gonta hammer em!"

Like, what did people expect him to say?!

And maybe he was being genuine if only to drum it into the team to expect a "massive challenge" (even if none was likely to be forthcoming). None of his great teams were ever complacent.

ballydalane (Kilkenny) - Posts: 1256 - 23/07/2019 20:44:08    2215440

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I'm sure Ewan is just loving the absolutely deserved and highest praise coming Jim Gavin's way at present ;)

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 06/12/2019 16:11:56    2253583

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I don't know much about McKenna and he seems like an attention seeking individual who has his own issues but again I have never read any of his articles.
What I would say on the manager speak is , you only have to look at some of the headlines on here to see club managers at exactly the same thing. It's the same old stuff from all of them and what else are they ever likely to say.
If one ever did say " they are a poor side and they got what they deserved " the manager would be lambasted from every quarter.
They'd get the kind of attention McKenna and Co. long for.

Dubh_linn (Dublin) - Posts: 2313 - 06/12/2019 19:22:50    2253616

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In fairness to managers (now professionals in most cases) they have to manage the talent fitness, some times career, ego, attitude, expectation, and with some players keep them grounded before and after games. If the manager himself came out and said that was an easy win what do you think would be said about him ? Often he is asked a loaded question by some reporter who is trying to get a head line or cause controversy. Like him or dislike him Davy avoids the scripted answer and is then blasted for his honesty.
With regards the posters on here I would regard the most of them honest supporters and in general discuss issues objectively. There is the odd over the top but if you look at total postings it is a low percentage. A bit of ribbing and banter is no harm and it is easy distinguish that from "Disingenuous, Disgusting, Odious, Nasty!! The stuff I do not like is the circulation of rumours about players, managers etc. Often started by one person with no facts to back it up. The best moderators can be be the contributors here calling out what is wrong.
Not going to say anything about pundits. In general I hold them in low esteem. That is my view about them and don't expect everyone or anyone to agree.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3046 - 06/12/2019 19:50:33    2253621

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That toad McKenna thrives on attention and will write or say anything, no matter how foul or untrue, to get it.

Don't give him your attention.

Gavvygavgav (Dublin) - Posts: 383 - 08/12/2019 13:13:01    2253802

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Replying To waynoI:  "Just some of the words Ewan McKenna placed ina tweet about Jim Gavin over the weekend.

I think that's very harsh if you dont know the man personally. Totally uncalled for in my view.

If people want to talk about Dublin playing two games in croke park, their finances, population etc then fine I respect that, and if people feel jim gavin comes across as a bit patronizing and boring, fine, I accept that too, but surely McKenna went over the line in describing jim as disgusting, nasty and odious..

Or maybe he didnt?

Am I just reading too much into it ? Seems very personal to me. No need for it."
I don't know what he said but Gavin has always carried himself with class and there's been no arrogance with him or the team.
There's been some tremendous players Cluxton, the Brogans, Flynn, OCallagahan, MCCarthy, Fenton etc. I've watched Mayo come out on the wrong side against them but never had any dislike for them as they played the game properly and showed respect to all opposition which can't be said for some other top counties going back further into the past.

There are financial imbalances that need to be addressed but that's nothing to do with Gavin or the team. They've maxed out their talent which has to be admired

centerfield (Mayo) - Posts: 360 - 08/12/2019 14:03:24    2253806

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Ewan Mackenna hasn't been a serious journalist for a long time. All he does is tweet from a barstool and delete the ones he gets wrong. Anyone who thinks he is still doing good work would want to have a word with themselves.

TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8388 - 08/12/2019 14:24:23    2253811

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Replying To waynoI:  "Just some of the words Ewan McKenna placed ina tweet about Jim Gavin over the weekend.

I think that's very harsh if you dont know the man personally. Totally uncalled for in my view.

If people want to talk about Dublin playing two games in croke park, their finances, population etc then fine I respect that, and if people feel jim gavin comes across as a bit patronizing and boring, fine, I accept that too, but surely McKenna went over the line in describing jim as disgusting, nasty and odious..

Or maybe he didnt?

Am I just reading too much into it ? Seems very personal to me. No need for it."
Sums the man up completely in my opinion.

Royal.Legend (Meath) - Posts: 715 - 08/12/2019 15:56:07    2253821

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I view McKenna as a shaker; he tries to polarize his audience, and create controversy naturally in his work. There have been plenty of McKenna's in the past and will be plenty more in the future. He's no fool, he looks for the attention he gets to keep himself relevant. He doesn't necessarily mean what he is writing as much as he is setting an argument. In that regard he is very good at his job.

I'd never describe Gavin as any of those terms. However I would say he was patronizing in interviews, in post-match dissections for the cameras after another dismantling of a clearly lower class team, he would often follow the script of using phrases like "nip and tuck" and "it was closer than the score line showed", etc, knowing full well that there's a bigger picture to his team's dominance and the lacking quality of many, many others. He was in the business of delivering for Dublin and deliver he did, in my opinion he's the best coach in the game and his trophy haul won't be topped. I stand by my point that he was never a big picture man, he delivered for his county but was willfully ignorant or even apathetic of the issues of the game around the country, and he is a very grey figure.

Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 597 - 08/12/2019 16:44:47    2253825

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