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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Is there a Gael criteria? Many Irish people don't speak Irish or having an interest in it. It's up to them. Doesn't make them any less Irish. We got rid of the Brits so we could live in a democracy with the right to choose to speak our own language but also to be able to choose not to. Live and let live or die from an ulcer from being vexated by people whose thinking differs from your own."
Indeed. I don't know where this comes from. It's very old style, the holy trinity of the gaa the Catholic Church and Fianna Fáil is long gone . Well for those of us living in 2019 it is.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 15/01/2019 20:36:53    2157425

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I'd agree that the whole "True Gael" thing is a load of BS. The Irish language is only a small thread to this island. I'd doubt that anyone in my family tree spoke Irish as a first language ever for example.

But you can only laugh at a lot of those that cannot watch a football match with the commentary in a language they did every day in school for over 10 years.

Yeah bla, bla, bla the teachers were crap but.....

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13797 - 15/01/2019 20:41:51    2157427

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Kind of sad what this thread has degenerated into. Was reading on History Ireland that 100 years ago today Cathal Brugha was arrested because he gave his name in Irish to a policeman who asked him who he was. The policeman said if he didn't give him the English form of his name he'd have to arrest him. Cathal then laughed at the idiocy of it all but still got himself arrested! Seems like the policeman's kin are very much alive and contributing on this forum!!

Whether people like it or not, the GAA was part of a pan nationalist revival. Gaelic football today would probably be no more popular than rounders is if it wasn't part of that wider movement which included, and had at its centre, the revival of the Irish language.

PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 2016 - 15/01/2019 21:33:02    2157443

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Indeed. I don't know where this comes from. It's very old style, the holy trinity of the gaa the Catholic Church and Fianna Fáil is long gone . Well for those of us living in 2019 it is."
It doesn't seem to have left your consciousness royaldunne, you rehash these sentiments regularly along with a few others.

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 15/01/2019 21:35:26    2157444

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Replying To MesAmis:  "I'd agree that the whole "True Gael" thing is a load of BS. The Irish language is only a small thread to this island. I'd doubt that anyone in my family tree spoke Irish as a first language ever for example.

But you can only laugh at a lot of those that cannot watch a football match with the commentary in a language they did every day in school for over 10 years.

Yeah bla, bla, bla the teachers were crap but....."
Not only that. But it's a hateful language, actually really bad compared to the fluency of other ones. Our bad luck I guess. Honestly it and the welsh scots language are terrible. Compare it to French , Spanish , even the polish Eastern Europe ones are pleasant to listen to. Ours not so unfortunately.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 15/01/2019 21:44:13    2157447

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Is there a Gael criteria? Many Irish people don't speak Irish or having an interest in it. It's up to them. Doesn't make them any less Irish. We got rid of the Brits so we could live in a democracy with the right to choose to speak our own language but also to be able to choose not to. Live and let live or die from an ulcer from being vexated by people whose thinking differs from your own."
Hardly a gaelic criteria when RTE, Sky, Eir sports show gaelic games with English commentary. Those English speaking channels have a monopoly on the All Ireland series in both codes. If it's English commentary you're after there's no shortage of it here in Ireland.

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 15/01/2019 22:03:35    2157450

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Not only that. But it's a hateful language, actually really bad compared to the fluency of other ones. Our bad luck I guess. Honestly it and the welsh scots language are terrible. Compare it to French , Spanish , even the polish Eastern Europe ones are pleasant to listen to. Ours not so unfortunately."
With a finger in each ear it's a pity you don't have one to plug the orifice here most of your Bull comes from.

seamusorinn (USA) - Posts: 295 - 15/01/2019 22:22:39    2157455

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Replying To royaldunne:  "Not only that. But it's a hateful language, actually really bad compared to the fluency of other ones. Our bad luck I guess. Honestly it and the welsh scots language are terrible. Compare it to French , Spanish , even the polish Eastern Europe ones are pleasant to listen to. Ours not so unfortunately."
You're showing your true colours now with your, "hateful language'. A language is not a living thing or person, it's a system of communication used by a particular country or community. Hatred and intolerance is in people's hearts and minds. Those who say they hate a language are in fact racists who hate the people who speak that language.
Adiós ahora, señor Dunne, I'm done with you!

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 15/01/2019 22:27:08    2157458

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Replying To baire:  "Hardly a gaelic criteria when RTE, Sky, Eir sports show gaelic games with English commentary. Those English speaking channels have a monopoly on the All Ireland series in both codes. If it's English commentary you're after there's no shortage of it here in Ireland."
I am not after commentary in any particular language as you assume. I'm proud to say that I sat honours Irish for my Leaving Cert in '87. But unfortunately never kept the same interest in our native language since then. In the same school I learned to be tolerant and respectful of others and their beliefs and opinions even if I don't agree with them. I asked was there a Gael criteria. Nobody answered my question.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7981 - 15/01/2019 23:32:28    2157475

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Not only that. But it's a hateful language, actually really bad compared to the fluency of other ones. Our bad luck I guess. Honestly it and the welsh scots language are terrible. Compare it to French , Spanish , even the polish Eastern Europe ones are pleasant to listen to. Ours not so unfortunately.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 14076 - 1/15/19 9:44:13 PM

Right.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion I suppose.

Irish is a language just like any other. All languages have their poetry and prose that is easy on the ear.

Seeing as you're such an expert, what is it about the fluency of the language that makes it 'hateful' and 'really bad' compared to other languages? Examples would be helpful.

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13797 - 16/01/2019 07:56:46    2157499

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "I am not after commentary in any particular language as you assume. I'm proud to say that I sat honours Irish for my Leaving Cert in '87. But unfortunately never kept the same interest in our native language since then. In the same school I learned to be tolerant and respectful of others and their beliefs and opinions even if I don't agree with them. I asked was there a Gael criteria. Nobody answered my question."
Perhaps people don't understand your question. Was there a Gael criteria? What does that mean?

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 16/01/2019 09:28:06    2157508

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Replying To baire:  "Perhaps people don't understand your question. Was there a Gael criteria? What does that mean?"
People commenting about people not liking Gaeilge as not being Gaels or not being 'True Gaels'. I'm asking what's is their criteria for someone to be defined, for them, as a Gael or a True Gael.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7981 - 16/01/2019 10:00:40    2157514

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "People commenting about people not liking Gaeilge as not being Gaels or not being 'True Gaels'. I'm asking what's is their criteria for someone to be defined, for them, as a Gael or a True Gael."
It's hard to define really. I would describe a true Gael as someone who is not Royaldunne.

Breffni40 (Cavan) - Posts: 12342 - 16/01/2019 12:15:47    2157548

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Replying To Breffni39:  "It's hard to define really. I would describe a true Gael as someone who is not Royaldunne."
:-)

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7981 - 16/01/2019 12:48:17    2157554

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "People commenting about people not liking Gaeilge as not being Gaels or not being 'True Gaels'. I'm asking what's is their criteria for someone to be defined, for them, as a Gael or a True Gael."
There is a distinction between Gaelic and Irish, Gaelach agus Éireannach. Most of the population who live in Ireland would regard themselves as Irish. Those who are gaelic speaking, a minority, are also mostly Irish and have a varying degree of competence in the language, as native speakers of English have in English. Gaelic refers to the language historically spoken in Ireland, Scotland and on the Isle of Man. When the GAA was founded one of its main objectives was the preservation, cultivation and promotion of the Irish language. This goal of theirs was much more difficult to achieve than to revive hurling or to promote gaelic football.
The word gaelic means gaelic speaking. Look it up in the dictionary if you don't believe me.
Re the GAA, I have noticed and I have experienced first hand in recent years a minority within the organisation who are not only ambivalent towards the language but openly hostile towards it. There is also in recent years an increasing hostility towards minorities in Ireland and across the water.

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 16/01/2019 12:48:42    2157555

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Replying To bloodyban:  "So if your not a Republican Marxist then you must be a Unionist. There's a way of thinking. I'd consider myself an ordinary Irish Man. I want politics to stay out of sport. I don't care what you believe in politically but I do have a problem with people hijacking the Irish language and Gaelic games for a Republican agenda. Carson played hurling and he was a Dublin Unionist...Now that we have Jackeens up to a decent standard of hurling we should be getting the Other Northern unionists back playing."
My point is that when you brand Irish language speakers as Republican gaelgoers, extreme Marxists etc it's the same as the DUP's reaction, the siege mentality and rejection of everything that is not British/English. The first president of Ireland, was an Irish speaking Protestant and did more for the preservation and promotion of Irish than any Republican or Marxist. Cuir é sin i do phíopa anois, a mhaicín!

baire (Galway) - Posts: 1849 - 16/01/2019 12:59:20    2157561

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Replying To baire:  "There is a distinction between Gaelic and Irish, Gaelach agus Éireannach. Most of the population who live in Ireland would regard themselves as Irish. Those who are gaelic speaking, a minority, are also mostly Irish and have a varying degree of competence in the language, as native speakers of English have in English. Gaelic refers to the language historically spoken in Ireland, Scotland and on the Isle of Man. When the GAA was founded one of its main objectives was the preservation, cultivation and promotion of the Irish language. This goal of theirs was much more difficult to achieve than to revive hurling or to promote gaelic football.
The word gaelic means gaelic speaking. Look it up in the dictionary if you don't believe me.
Re the GAA, I have noticed and I have experienced first hand in recent years a minority within the organisation who are not only ambivalent towards the language but openly hostile towards it. There is also in recent years an increasing hostility towards minorities in Ireland and across the water."
I have no stats but think a lot of people's dislike of the Irish language stems from it being compulsory or bad or lazy teachers or being bullied by Irish teachers. Unfortunately Irish wouldn't be the only school subject where peopled formed a dread of the subject. And some people were inspired by great teachers or other influences, like their parents, into loving the language.

I'm from Ballyhaunis so I'm well used to and welcome foreign nationals. I don't know if that makes me more tolerant but my wife is Filippina. She's picking up some Irish from helping our daughter with her homework. Her Irish isn't great but my Tagalog isn't great either. I'm on a tangent but I agree there are some hostilities to minorities. Hopefully not so much in the GAA. as we need more members, be they native Irish or not.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7981 - 16/01/2019 13:17:12    2157567

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Replying To baire:  "My point is that when you brand Irish language speakers as Republican gaelgoers, extreme Marxists etc it's the same as the DUP's reaction, the siege mentality and rejection of everything that is not British/English. The first president of Ireland, was an Irish speaking Protestant and did more for the preservation and promotion of Irish than any Republican or Marxist. Cuir é sin i do phíopa anois, a mhaicín!"
Douglas Hyde was a good guy and central to the revival of Irish as we're many protestants. Not too many protestants speaking Irish now. Id say theres no protestant family in Ireland speaking Irish and thats partly because the language has been weaponised.Unfortunately I seriously doubt he'd like to see how the language is being hijacked for political gain.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 16/01/2019 13:44:45    2157571

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Douglas Hyde was a good guy and central to the revival of Irish as we're many protestants. Not too many protestants speaking Irish now. Id say theres no protestant family in Ireland speaking Irish and thats partly because the language has been weaponised.Unfortunately I seriously doubt he'd like to see how the language is being hijacked for political gain.
bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 797 - 1/16/19 1:44:45 PM

For the vast majority of people speaking Irish it has nothing political about it.

Labelling people with your silly labels is strangely trying to turn it into a political issue, something you say your against others doing, especially if they're middle class cultural Marxists (or whatever other label you've heard and picked up lately).

MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13797 - 16/01/2019 13:57:49    2157574

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Played against an Irish speaking club one time

All shouting at each other in Irish

One of my team mates turned to me and said
"Clever c***s are speaking in code"

jimbodub (Dublin) - Posts: 20763 - 17/01/2019 14:08:47    2157777

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