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All under-age games tend to be free flowing.
neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 09/10/2018 15:01:59 2145784 Link 0 |
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Compare football, hurling and rugby in the last 25 years. The common thread is that the preparation levels in all 3 sports has exploded. In the case of hurling and rugby their best aspects have been hugely improved on and the spectacle on offer has improved immensely. Look at football on the other hand and rather than improve on its best aspects it has mutated into a slower, blanket defense ridden game where most passes are to teammates a few meters away with an open fist and little man on man competition for the ball. If we could get the rules right (rugby has constantly changed the rules to get their sport played well) we could have a game true to its origins (not almost mutated into a different sport) but played much better than before as the players are so much better prepared (like what has happened with hurling and rugby). bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1340 - 09/10/2018 15:07:19 2145786 Link 0 |
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Well said MesAmis. That was a very succinct and welcome response to Canuck's nonsense .
Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 09/10/2018 17:14:56 2145800 Link 0 |
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You guys trying to put lipstick on the pig. Bastard ball is not close to the skill of hurling. Try showing both to a neutral audience around the world as I have and see the reaction. People are enthralled watching hurling. They walk off if you show them gaelic football. Inter county hurling not as strong in as many counties does not make football better and a poor excuse for what was a great game.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 09/10/2018 18:33:27 2145814 Link 1 |
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I honestly think some of the best games ever have been since the blanket came in. Tyrone Kerry 2005 and 2008 Tyrone Dublin 2005 Kerry Mayo 2014, 2017 Mayo Dublin 2015, 2016, 2017 Kerry Dublin 2011, 2013, 2016 There were other memorable performances by top teams like Donegal in 2012 and 2014. Accounting for Cork, Kerry and Dublin with style to get to 2 All Ireland finals. There was a very good and exciting Cork team around 2008-2012. Kildare has their moments under McGeeney. Down reached an All Ireland final with an average enough team but great attacking talent like Martin Clarke and Benny Coulter. Monaghan have produced a top team, they have generally been pretty defensive but they've also had Conor McManus who's worth the admission price alone. Don't get me started on some of talent from Dublin, Mayo, Donegal and Kerry in that time. Some incredibly attacking wing backs have been operating. I actually think to really believe that football is that bad you have to go out of your way to ignore all of the great stuff. Could tweaks help it, yes! Does it need whole style change. No! Really it's just nostalgia and people's preconceptions of what the game "was meant to be" that would indicate that. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 09/10/2018 19:07:48 2145817 Link 4 |
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Great post. Agree wholeheartedly. MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 09/10/2018 20:33:39 2145829 Link 3 |
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There have been some great games at county level, but at club level its just getting worse; 15 men behind the ball, endless passing around the 45 in front of the blanket defence; something has to change.
befair (Down) - Posts: 237 - 09/10/2018 21:35:11 2145839 Link 0 |
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In all the time I have posted about the ills of the former great game not one poster refuted that taking line balls from the hand resulted in the ball going backwards. There are other times as well but this contributed to hight percentage of back play. No-one will chance a backwards kick in case it is lost. Also no one has refuted that a 21yds free to the left or right of the post ends up from 14 yds in front of the posts. Why not correct these few issues firsts. "Foot-ball " The only time the ball should be in the hands is when fielded or lifted with the toe. Not handed to a player to kick from his hands. A fist pass with the elbow retracting., space created between hand and ball and a striking action that must go 10 yds would automatically increase the boot work because so many would get intercepted. There is no need to go back to catch and kick but undo these rule changes that were mistake. Lets try "foot-ball" for awhile. Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 09/10/2018 22:15:27 2145843 Link 0 |
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Honestly no disrespect but you must have been born 2004.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 09/10/2018 22:29:02 2145848 Link 0 |
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I would have to disagree. In my opinion this keep ball football we are seeing now and side to side hand passing is a product of the blanket defence. This is what needs fixing if anything. Handpassing can be brilliant to watch and highly effective when done well but people only ever focus on it being a negative because its a way of maintaining possession infront of a wall of a defence. Look at just about every game, players are far more fit and athletic than ever, 13 a side should work just fine on the pitches we have, dublin, the best team there is on occasions in this years all ireland had every player back in their own half so in essence you are playing with 25 to 28/29 bodies regularly in a condensed 70 meters pitch or so. Take 2 bodies from each team out of there and you will have more space for attacking football, more holes to run into, more space to kick into. I might be wrong but i think they completely got these rule changes proposed wrong, i can see these rewarding the blanket defence far more than creating good attacking football. 13 a side may not work but i feel its got a far greater chance of being a success if trialed
tipp11 (Tipperary) - Posts: 353 - 09/10/2018 22:32:32 2145849 Link 2 |
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You talk about "people's preconceptions of what the game "was meant to be"", sometimes you wonder what's the point of a sport if no one cares if the way its played completely changes and it almost becomes a different sport. No other sport would allow this to happen. In rugby when Italy took advantage of existing rules to stop their opposition forming rucks by putting men on the opposition side of the ball in one match, completely changing the way the game was played, within 5 months the rule makers in rugby brought in changes updating their rules out lawing what they did. Had they not this would have become normal in rugby and the game could have completely changed. The interest level amongst casual sports fans for most of the football championship was the worst I ever remember and the biggest reason is the mundane repetitive nature of the modern game with hand pass after hand pass in front of a packed defence. Yes even in these games we got well kicked points but this did not stop people being completely bored with the games overall. Over use of the hand pass and packed defensives slows the game down too much and bores people watching it. The truth is this gets worse the further away from the top teams you go. Further on down in club matches some games can be terrible. The GAA should have some confidence in Gaelic football and say this we want to keep Gaelic football as Gaelic football like the rugby authorities would do for their sport. Saying packed defensives allows weaker teams compete with the strong is a better argument for a tiered championship than the saying we should not implement rules to combat it.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1340 - 09/10/2018 22:59:44 2145853 Link 0 |
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The idea of the ball going ten yards when the ball is passed with the fist/hand is interesting but may prove very difficult to monitor . It may also help teams that play defensively because one of the most effective ways of opening up defensive teams is to move the ball quickly with good support play . I accept your point about players who hit frees from the hand encroaching on the goals . An effective way to stop that would be for the referees to be supplied with the same spray that the soccer referees use . They could use the spray to show from where the free must be taken . If a free taker goes beyond the point marked by the referee then there a free out would be awarded from the point where the initial free should have been taken . I would not dispense with frees from the hand . I was at an Ulster semi final in 2016. Donegal led Monaghan by two points with time almost up . Monaghan were awarded a free from 52 yards out in front of the posts . Conor McManus hit it from his hands and scored . Very shortly afterwards Monaghan were awarded a free from almost the exact same spot . McManus scored for the hand again to draw the match . It was magnificent to see . In relation to your concerns about the sideline ball I think that the new proposals deal very well with them . The game is not broken . The current framework within which the game is played has the potential when teams are evenly matched to provide for compelling sport . It has already done so as has been illustrated on previous posts . I would never say that football is more skillful than hurling . Hurling is the most skillful field game on the planet . The key is competition . Hurling is on a huge high at the moment following the greatest sporting competition I have ever witnessed. Football, which I accept has declined as a spectacle is suffering by comparison . However hurling is only now emerging from a prolonged period when the championship was barely worthy of the name because of it's stultifying predictability. For fifteen years the eventual winners could be named on two fingers . That was partly down to the enduring magnificence of Kilkenny . Dublin are now similarly magnificent . That will also come to an end . Football is not broken . The framework is there . The cohort of high profile, relentlessly negative, highly remunerated "analysts" must be resisted and faced down . Yes the spectacle must be improved but the last thing we need is a knee jerk reaction and the package of reforms that are now being proposed. In 2007 and 2008 we had two of the most depressingly one sided All Ireland finals of all time but did the hurling people panic ? No they didn't . They did as they always do . They reacted with common sense and had faith in the game . Football deserves the same courtesy . Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 09/10/2018 23:03:01 2145854 Link 0 |
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I find the dogmatism/wishful thinking that Gaelic football is and ALWAYS WILL BE the most successful and most popular sport in Ireland interesting. It's a comforting thought but no more than that. Anyone who has lived through the wholesale societal changes that Ireland has gone through over the past 50 years cannot say with any confidence that what is popular and successful today will hold the same interest and enthusiasm for people in 20 years time, let alone into the distant future. In terms of passive interest we are already at the stage where half the gaa-oriented sporting public (myself included) only begin to take an interest in what is going on in the championship when it reaches the All Ireland semi final stage. That's such a massive change from the 70's, 80's, 90's and every decade before that when nearly every championship game grabbed the public's attention and people couldn't wait for the start of it. That sense of excitement has well diminished now and doesn't extend hugely beyond the audience of this website. We also now have a growing 17% of our population who are non- Irish and I don't see many of them (or of their children who are Irish) becoming big followers of it. And while we have such things as blanket defences and negative play it will remain a hard sell to get them interested. PoolSturgeon (Galway) - Posts: 1902 - 10/10/2018 02:50:17 2145861 Link 0 |
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13 a side will me 13 men behind the ball in their 45. It will not be mean loads of room opening up. Inside the 45s are the only parts of the pitch that matters. Players hit percentage shots and increasingly hit only from inside the 45 in the middle of the pitch. The pitch is too big for the game and managers have found that out and that's why the middle third is not contested in regular play. This is the problem. Also managers pull everyone back because they want as many of their players in the game at one time. There's no point in having someone standing picking his hole not doing anything. The 2 points for a score outside the 45 and 4 points for a goal could improve the game. You now get a wider viable shooting zone. Finding other ways of encouraging teams to press could help also. I think stopping teams from being able to play backwards behind lines could help. So if a team enters the 65 then they can't play it back to a man behind that line. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 10/10/2018 05:32:35 2145865 Link 3 |
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Ha funny because there's only one person in this thread who's contributing at an adolescent level.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4210 - 10/10/2018 07:11:19 2145869 Link 4 |
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The pitch is only too big because moving the ball a long way quickly up the field (kicking the ball forward) does not seem like an effective option. You are inconsistent in saying on one hand you only believe in only bringing in small rule changes and then suggest the pitch size should be looked at.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1340 - 10/10/2018 07:48:52 2145870 Link 0 |
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The first point you make of 13 men in their own half is the exact point in making, now you have 15 so there should be more room, not drastically but should improve it. I think it's something that could have big benefits to trial but we wouldn't know for sure until it was. Preseason competitions, sigerson is the perfect places to try it out. If successful then bring it into the league, if theres no improvement then go back to 15. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong but would love to see it tried. I think the pitch is the right size, if anything hurling its hurling where the midfield is constantly getting bypassed, not hurling. Not a huge fan of changing the scoring structure and would be against limiting handpasses, playing the ball backwards tipp11 (Tipperary) - Posts: 353 - 10/10/2018 09:56:39 2145894 Link 0 |
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I think you're engaging in wishful thinking to be honest by stating that in the 70s, 80s and 90s and every decade before that every championship game grabbed the public's attention and that people couldn't wait for it to start. That's just plainly not true. Gaelic Football and Association football are deeply ingrained in Irish society but that doesn't have to always stay the same. Both will need to evolve at different times of course. In the last 40 years we've seen Gaelic Football go from a minority sport in Dublin to a sport played all across the city and county for example and one that has challenged soccer's domination of the city and county. Something unthinkable once. Soccer and GAA now dominate the sporting landscape of the city and county in terms of attendances, TV, interest and player numbers. I don't think that Gaelic Football shouldn't change if if it wants to remain top dog but I feel that the current conversation that "football is broken and unwatchable" to be the most dangerous threat to football as it could bring in ill thought out rule changes to appease the vocal 'something must be done' mob. Every sport has great games, average games and poor games. This is allowed in all sports. With Gaelic Football currently there is an over exaggeration of the amount of poor games in this era and an over exaggeration of the amount of great games in past eras. People have become so entrenched in their personal views that Gaelic Football is the worst sport in the history of world sport that they quickly forget the great games we get every year in the league and championships. They only see the bad games and they lump average games in as terrible games too! MesAmis (Dublin) - Posts: 13705 - 10/10/2018 10:06:16 2145897 Link 3 |
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Yes at times hand passing moves can be good but the problem with the game is when kicking forward is not in the mix. The the amount of hand passing in a game and blanket defense when it comes to seeing what causes the other is a bit like the chicken and egg situation. I think making teams line up in their 'zones' from kickouts would have a huge positive effect on the game as it would make kicking the ball forward after the kickouts much more effective than it is now and with about 40 kickouts in a game would dictate how the game was played.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1340 - 10/10/2018 10:26:47 2145899 Link 0 |
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Handpassing or footpassing the ball over and back the field for long periods was started by Dublin as a way of getting around packed defences.They waited for the right opening to appear and usually seized the opportunity.A lot of teams of lower ability have copied this passing about without the ability to do what Dublin can do.There are fat too many copycat coaches in the game who put no innovative thinking in to the game. gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1056 - 10/10/2018 12:21:50 2145921 Link 1 |