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Listening to TT tonight and Sylvester had a few stats that were interesting, daithi Casey had 43 possessions and did very well with all of them and got the ball moving forward at nearly every opportunity and he also scored two excellent points from play. Syl also said in the 13 years that he's been doing stats that's the second highest amount he's come across, so fair play to daithi.

Also Clifford got 23 possessions in the inside line which was excellent.

Our possessions from kickouts were not so great where we only managed to win 17 from the 52 kickouts on the night.

Our boys need to put in serious work on the breaking ball for the summer.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 19/03/2018 20:27:24    2086003

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Yea I've been a fan of Casey for a while now I think he was a victim of the Crokes success as he couldn't play in the league a few years there. I'll say one thing he can move a much faster player than Buckley for what I have seen and he will get better and fitter as he still is a club player and the county training will help him even though he played the whole game its probably his first full one. He is exactly the player we need someone with speed and can score on the run but then again he might disappear the rest of the year like a few have done. As sure as god made gooseberries I can see donnacha back in there if he is anyway fit I heard Fitzy mention him last week and to me he should not be anywhere near that team now or barry john kean either for that matter.

chicago09 (Kerry) - Posts: 694 - 20/03/2018 01:38:53    2086087

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Replying To chicago09:  "Yea I've been a fan of Casey for a while now I think he was a victim of the Crokes success as he couldn't play in the league a few years there. I'll say one thing he can move a much faster player than Buckley for what I have seen and he will get better and fitter as he still is a club player and the county training will help him even though he played the whole game its probably his first full one. He is exactly the player we need someone with speed and can score on the run but then again he might disappear the rest of the year like a few have done. As sure as god made gooseberries I can see donnacha back in there if he is anyway fit I heard Fitzy mention him last week and to me he should not be anywhere near that team now or barry john kean either for that matter."
Ya it's a young mans game now for sure and I know daithi is no spring chicken but he wouldn't have the miles on the clock of a donnacha or Johnny Buckley.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 20/03/2018 10:16:30    2086134

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Seeing as we are nearing the end of the League I'm curious for others opinion. Defense, I think we all agree is the biggest issue so if we were playing a Munster final tomorrow and everyone was fit and available what would your full-back and half back lines be?

For me Foley was left high and dry on Saturday night, and I'd like us to persist with him in the FB position. I also think Shanahan should be alongside him. Moving to the half-forward line I really like Crowley and what he brings but for me it's becoming clear he is no centre back. I'd have him on the wing with Murphy at the other side.

I was having a few pints with the 'wrong' side of the family from Lixnaw (ha ha), over the weekend. Now my cousins would know Fitzy well and would have played with him and their assessment of his managerial record over the past 2-3 years is sobering enough to hear - stubborn as a mule and unwilling to hear other's opinions is there summation. But I think that's been pretty clear for a while.
They also mentioned the worrying fact that he's from the Ballynageragh part of the Parish, how lads from that side have been in charge of the Lixnaw teams for years and how the rest of the parish take it as fact that the lads in charge of Lixnaw have lost them more county finals than they have won with bizarre decisions during games. The point being, if that is the environment and tradition Fitzy came from it would seem to explain the baffling substitutions he tends to make in games.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 20/03/2018 14:09:11    2086241

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any truth in the rumour that ye have a challenge game lined up with us (Leitrim) before we go to New York in our Centre of Excellence in Annaduff??

LovelyLeitrim (Leitrim) - Posts: 111 - 20/03/2018 14:17:07    2086245

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Replying To Leitrim1:  "any truth in the rumour that ye have a challenge game lined up with us (Leitrim) before we go to New York in our Centre of Excellence in Annaduff??"
I haven't heard anything about it Leitrim1 but I wouldn't be surprised as we'lol play 5/6 challenge matches between next weekend and the start of the Munster championship.

Maybe one of the other Kerry posters have heard something.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 20/03/2018 15:11:08    2086269

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@theHermit I think our half back line come the summer will be:
Crowley, Morley, Murphy

It's a pity Gavin Crowley got injured because that will put him back a bit, he was well in the shakeup based on early season form. Tom o'Sullivan hasn't played much but he is another good option as well.

The full back line is a bit of a conundrum and I don't think any position is completely nailed down. It's between Griffen and Foley at full back and the corners will be two out of Enright, O'Beaglaoich, Fionn, Shanahan and Young (if fit). If Griffen takes the full back spot Foley could play in the corner as well.

It will depend on what goes on in training from here until June. I think a lot of the above players are fairly interchangeable and there isn't a lot between them. Our issue is mainly a tactical one IMO. We need to stop giving the opposition so much space and protect the full back line better.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2113 - 21/03/2018 13:38:58    2086615

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Off the grid since before the Dublin Game - that was one of the most disappointing performances, ok we got inside the cover on occasions and should have had 2 green flags but the manner of the defeatist attitude in the closing 25 minutes was alarming. What made me smile was people saying oh we lost Geaney and Seanie Sé.. the lad is 19 years old and in his first season, the set up and man marking was baffling, and again when ran at we were opened like a can of beans.. the first goal came at a crucial stage we had a free, went short didn't capitalise and they scored at the other end.. basically a 4 point swing. The subs that day too were non effective with BJ Keane and sorry now for singling out bet did we even touch the ball. Moran was like a racehorse out for the first gallop huffing and puffing after 8-10 minutes. This game displayed the gulf in class and level or class of player difference. No this was an eye opening and alarming display.

On to the Kildare game.. ok an ok performance against a bad bad side. Everyone is stating how roasted Foley was.. perversely enough I do not agree. His man scored 6 points from play but for every score Foley had gotten goal side and did not dive in and give away a needless free or an easy goal. This was done with little or no protection from outside. All Kildares scores were from play, this is an excellent stat for our defence and discipline. On the team itself for the last few games, Murphy had acquitted himself only ok and I still feel this area needs radical improvement. I would persist with Foley and Shanahan, Enright was rested but as much of a fan as I am of O'Beagleach I don't think he is a corner man. Similarly Crowley is not a number 6. Ok at club level but the game has evolved and the days of the Horse or Liam Flaherty nailing a man is long long gone… we need readers and ball players here now.. is it a coincidence that the two games we won that Gavin Crowley was at 6? Back wise I think we are fine for cover but need a system and plan in place that will both zonally cover space while also being in a place to take runners out of the equation. Maybe a double line here were 3 mark space and 2 cover the moves would suffice, my only regret here is we have returned to the Griffins and Fionn fitz and given little or no time to the Gavin Whites and Tom Sullivans of the world. Midfield Jack Barry has become a serious player and option for us. Maher is gone gone… the question now is who will partner Jack.. Moran is too ponderous and slow on the ball while the likes of Barry Sullivan who I have time for is an excellent passer and ball player lacks the pace, still I would have him ahead of Moran with the likes of Casey or Enna O'Connor who has really impressed me to be persisted with.

For me Seanie and Clifford are the finds of the forwards, Geaney needs a wee break but should be fine come dry sod. Getting a fit James is no longer a priority in my opinion and could be a better option if not fully fit in the role of impact sub. I would love to see how a Donaghy and Clifford inside line with Geaney roving would look like as both have serious hands and football brains… outside again please don't return to the Darran's and Donnachadh's of the world,.. admittedly I have never been a fan of Casey but his form has been impressive and if he continues this vein it would be hard to exclude. Again the like of Keane, Buckley etc would be slow to re-introduce but disappointed the likes of Rob O'Se and Tomas O'Se and a few more did not make the step up or get adequate game time.

Hermit you asked about a starting 15, as it stands if I was picking a Championship at this moment in time and going on league and club form I would be looking along these lines: Murphy, O'Beagleach, Foley, Shanahan, Paul Murphy, Tadgh Morley, Gavin Crowley, Jack Barry, Barry Sullivan, Daithi Casey, Seanie Sé, Kevin MacCarthy, David Clifford, Paul Geaney, James O'Donoghue

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5491 - 21/03/2018 16:19:50    2086680

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Not convinced Barry Dan is the answer at midfield just yet, he is a nice footballer but is he that much more mobile than Moran? We are probably going to have 5-6 newcomers as it is so I'd stick with Moran for now.

My full championship 15 FWIW

Kelly
O'Beaglaoich, Griffen, Foley
Crowley, Morley, Murphy
Barry, Moran
Burns, O'Shea, McCarthy
Clifford, Geaney, Casey

Two man FF line with Casey coming out to the half forwards while the two wingers will be required to do a bit of tracking at times.

I think that's a nice blend of youth and experience. Lots of options off the bench like G.Crowley, Young, O'Sullivan, O'Brien, JOD and Donaghy. Midfield is the big worry, we have a fairly worrisome lack of alternatives in the middle if Jack Barry or Moran gets hurt. I suppose Morley could plug a gap for us here if it comes to that, a bit like McCarthy does for the Dubs sometimes

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2113 - 21/03/2018 21:51:05    2086804

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Ya I'd actually toy with the idea of Morley at midfield also he has ball ability and played there in the league last year

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5491 - 21/03/2018 22:18:14    2086811

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Replying To Horsebox77:  "Ya I'd actually toy with the idea of Morley at midfield also he has ball ability and played there in the league last year"
Trouble is he is needed at centre back too. I suppose Gavin Crowley could slot in there though if he is back to full health.

Either way I think Barry and Moran won't be displaced unless there are injuries. Who comes in to give that burst of energy at the end of games though? I just don't see it in Barry Dan for now. I know it's pointless saying it but what a pity Mark O'Connor is in Oz, I think the position he plays is going to be our biggest weakness for the foreseeable future.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2113 - 21/03/2018 22:38:40    2086817

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Replying To GeniusGerry:  "Trouble is he is needed at centre back too. I suppose Gavin Crowley could slot in there though if he is back to full health.

Either way I think Barry and Moran won't be displaced unless there are injuries. Who comes in to give that burst of energy at the end of games though? I just don't see it in Barry Dan for now. I know it's pointless saying it but what a pity Mark O'Connor is in Oz, I think the position he plays is going to be our biggest weakness for the foreseeable future."
Agree but then why not give game time to the likes of Rob Se or even try Adrain Spillane or Daithi there or Enna O'Connor this is the very reason that we should have entered the McGrath cup. Unfortunately we have the same type of players the buckleys Morans Barry Sull all similar all big but slow no ball carrier no break builder - remember Tommy Griffin when playing midfield not a big big man or Usain Bolt be he could always break the initial tackle - key here is beat the first man - no one on our panel can do this - what is worrying is we have one competitive game left before championship who are nailed starters? Ah Paul Murphy, Jack Barry, Seanie Se, Clifford and Paul Geaney that's just 5 a 1/3 of our championship team - if we all sat down on the high stool some night all of us here we would all gave different opinions this late in the year with an unsettled side is worrying - ok Morley is also a starter so thats 6 we could all probably agree on

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5491 - 21/03/2018 22:56:40    2086822

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Replying To Horsebox77:  "Agree but then why not give game time to the likes of Rob Se or even try Adrain Spillane or Daithi there or Enna O'Connor this is the very reason that we should have entered the McGrath cup. Unfortunately we have the same type of players the buckleys Morans Barry Sull all similar all big but slow no ball carrier no break builder - remember Tommy Griffin when playing midfield not a big big man or Usain Bolt be he could always break the initial tackle - key here is beat the first man - no one on our panel can do this - what is worrying is we have one competitive game left before championship who are nailed starters? Ah Paul Murphy, Jack Barry, Seanie Se, Clifford and Paul Geaney that's just 5 a 1/3 of our championship team - if we all sat down on the high stool some night all of us here we would all gave different opinions this late in the year with an unsettled side is worrying - ok Morley is also a starter so thats 6 we could all probably agree on"
Good points by all of ye lads, horse you're correct if you asked us all to name a team we'd all come up with something different which I suppose, I'd say fitz probably knows his starting 15 by now unfortunately for us fans it'l probably look a lot like the 15 that started against Mayo in the drawn game,

Fitz has done his bit for us now by blooding 9/10 players and keeping us in division 1 and he'll feel free now to become more conservative, although given we could be in the super 8s we will have injuries and no doubt suspensions at times so that might force his arm a bit.

I have a serious question for ye boys, would Clifford and seanie be better off joining up with the U20s? I mean in all fairness they'd at least have some chance of winning that competition.

KingdomBoy1 (Kerry) - Posts: 14092 - 22/03/2018 10:25:47    2086880

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Good points by all of ye lads, horse you're correct if you asked us all to name a team we'd all come up with something different which I suppose, I'd say fitz probably knows his starting 15 by now unfortunately for us fans it'l probably look a lot like the 15 that started against Mayo in the drawn game,

Fitz has done his bit for us now by blooding 9/10 players and keeping us in division 1 and he'll feel free now to become more conservative, although given we could be in the super 8s we will have injuries and no doubt suspensions at times so that might force his arm a bit.

I have a serious question for ye boys, would Clifford and seanie be better off joining up with the U20s? I mean in all fairness they'd at least have some chance of winning that competition."
IMO, the minors and U-20's sole purpose is to develop potential players for the Kerry senior team. So no offense to either competition but I couldn't give a damn whether we won or lost All-Ireland's at that level as long as we were unearthing talent to feed and win with the Kerry seniors. Same with the junior grade.
Clifford and O'Se have proven they can handle this level, I was skeptical of Clifford being ready for the big time last January but with each game he's looking more at home. When these boys careers are done they'll be remembered for what they did for the Kerry seniors not how well they did underage, so sorry Jack but you should have more than enough around the county to give the U-20's a rattle without them!

P.S, Kingdomboy, I really hope you are wrong about Kerry in the summer being close to the drawn semi-final team but I'm worried you aren't!
Just to remind us all this is the team that started last August 20th:
Brian Kelly;
Shane Enright, Mark Griffin, Killian Young;
Peter Crowley, Tadhg Morley, Paul Murphy;
David Moran, Anthony Maher;
Michael Geaney, Johnny Buckley, Stephen O'Brien;
Paul Geaney, Kieran Donaghy, James O'Donoghue

If nohing else, none of that half-forward line should be anywhere near a Kerry starting team this summer!

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 22/03/2018 12:15:53    2086923

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Replying To TheHermit:  "IMO, the minors and U-20's sole purpose is to develop potential players for the Kerry senior team. So no offense to either competition but I couldn't give a damn whether we won or lost All-Ireland's at that level as long as we were unearthing talent to feed and win with the Kerry seniors. Same with the junior grade.
Clifford and O'Se have proven they can handle this level, I was skeptical of Clifford being ready for the big time last January but with each game he's looking more at home. When these boys careers are done they'll be remembered for what they did for the Kerry seniors not how well they did underage, so sorry Jack but you should have more than enough around the county to give the U-20's a rattle without them!

P.S, Kingdomboy, I really hope you are wrong about Kerry in the summer being close to the drawn semi-final team but I'm worried you aren't!
Just to remind us all this is the team that started last August 20th:
Brian Kelly;
Shane Enright, Mark Griffin, Killian Young;
Peter Crowley, Tadhg Morley, Paul Murphy;
David Moran, Anthony Maher;
Michael Geaney, Johnny Buckley, Stephen O'Brien;
Paul Geaney, Kieran Donaghy, James O'Donoghue

If nohing else, none of that half-forward line should be anywhere near a Kerry starting team this summer!"
Or the full back line and midfield paring - keeper ah I'm on the fence

Horsebox77 (Kerry) - Posts: 5491 - 22/03/2018 12:46:31    2086938

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Replying To Horsebox77:  "Or the full back line and midfield paring - keeper ah I'm on the fence"
Well Horse, as others have said its hard to see any alternative to a Barry/Moran midfield given how bereft we are of options there.
But surely Killian can still cut it in the fullback line? And Enright can probably be a horses for courses choice for some of the potential opposition we will meet.

Apparently JOD and Darran will be available for Sunday. Not sure what Darran's role will be come the summer though.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 22/03/2018 12:56:55    2086944

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Well Horse, as others have said its hard to see any alternative to a Barry/Moran midfield given how bereft we are of options there.
But surely Killian can still cut it in the fullback line? And Enright can probably be a horses for courses choice for some of the potential opposition we will meet.

Apparently JOD and Darran will be available for Sunday. Not sure what Darran's role will be come the summer though."
I think Killian would be ideal for the sweeper role if that's the route Eamon goes down. His discipline and distribution is good and he has a lot of winning experience. He would be well able for a role in the full back line as well. His injury record is a concern though.

Agree on O'Shea and Clifford. There is no comparison at U20 level to the experience they would get in the Super 8's playing in Croker against the best teams. I don't think we'll win anything this year but If they are left back to the U20's they will be facing in to 2019 with no championship experience again. If there were doubts about whether they will start you'd say fair enough, but both have played their way in to the first fifteen for me.

Jack will still have an outstanding panel to pick from at U20 level without them, although admittedly I wouldn't blame him for being annoyed that his two best players are unavailable to him.

GeniusGerry (Kerry) - Posts: 2113 - 22/03/2018 13:30:06    2086953

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Replying To TheHermit:  "Well Horse, as others have said its hard to see any alternative to a Barry/Moran midfield given how bereft we are of options there.
But surely Killian can still cut it in the fullback line? And Enright can probably be a horses for courses choice for some of the potential opposition we will meet.

Apparently JOD and Darran will be available for Sunday. Not sure what Darran's role will be come the summer though."
I always felt Darran has not been used enough over the last few years when you see the amount of game time the likes of Mike Geaney and BJ Keane gets in comparison. I know these players get alot of doubters but im tired of it at this stage as i really feel they are nowhere near good enough from what I have seen year in year out.

It has cost us before and will cost us again with these selections.

IMO much more of a scoring threat running from deep and better on the ball then alot of players given central roles over fitzmaurices tenure.

His best days might be behind him now alright especially with the new players coming in. An impact sub again for Darran I would think.

KY4SAM2015 (Kerry) - Posts: 898 - 22/03/2018 16:58:51    2087045

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Replying To KingdomBoy1:  "Good points by all of ye lads, horse you're correct if you asked us all to name a team we'd all come up with something different which I suppose, I'd say fitz probably knows his starting 15 by now unfortunately for us fans it'l probably look a lot like the 15 that started against Mayo in the drawn game,

Fitz has done his bit for us now by blooding 9/10 players and keeping us in division 1 and he'll feel free now to become more conservative, although given we could be in the super 8s we will have injuries and no doubt suspensions at times so that might force his arm a bit.

I have a serious question for ye boys, would Clifford and seanie be better off joining up with the U20s? I mean in all fairness they'd at least have some chance of winning that competition."
From a neutral perspective KingdomBoy I think you would be better off letting those lads off with the under 20s. I think Kerry are doing the right thing in persisting with the youth but I don't think you will win anything this year with or without the two lads. I think the worst thing that happened Kerry was winning the 2014 All Ireland as it was more the end of the old era rather than the beginning of a new one. There were a few new lads on that team who were not good enough and it seemed to take Fitzmaurice a couple of years before he realised that. Keep bringing the young lads through, even if it means a barren couple of years, and leave the likes of Darren O Sullivan and Donaghy out of it as their day is done. I know it will mean the Dubs probably winning the five in a row and we'll all be as well to immigrate if that happens, but I don't think you'll beat them with the old brigade. You have the backbone of a good team with the likes of Murphy, Barry, Crowley (if you can keep him on the pitch ) Geaney and a fit O Donoghue. Add in the best of your three in a row minor teams and in two or three years time you should be able for the Dubs. The Dubs domination will not last forever as they will find it hard to replace the likes of Brogan, Cluxton, McCauley, Connolly and a couple of others. Those lads only come along once in a generation. There is nothing to challenge them at the minute. Galway are throwing shapes but the Dubs will dismantle them when it matters. Tyrone are improving but they are far from the Tyrone of old. Donegal maybe, but not for a few years and that's about it. We are gone I'm afraid and will be for some considerable time. Our coaching system is a shambles with two many lads content to go through the motions. Poor timekeeping, poor coaching sessions etc. There have been some moves lately to introduce some young ex county players as coaches, with the emphasis on young, but as usual with us it will be one step forward and two steps back. Mind you I like the look of our U20s manager but time will tell as we have tended to take the necessary funds from the minors to fund the senior team. We got very little out of our U21 winning team with a lot of them either carrying injuries or just losing interest and moving away. The big problem I can see down the road is the lack of players. Almost all our youth are moving away, even half our senior team are living in Dublin, and their families will grow up outside the county. I live in the country and there isn't a young lad in their twenties within two miles of me. When I was young we could field a team from my own village. Changed times and not for the better. Anyway that's my tuppence worth and apologies for trying to teach you Kerry lads how to suck eggs!

Llaw_Gyffes (Mayo) - Posts: 1113 - 22/03/2018 17:23:07    2087052

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Replying To Llaw_Gyffes:  "From a neutral perspective KingdomBoy I think you would be better off letting those lads off with the under 20s. I think Kerry are doing the right thing in persisting with the youth but I don't think you will win anything this year with or without the two lads. I think the worst thing that happened Kerry was winning the 2014 All Ireland as it was more the end of the old era rather than the beginning of a new one. There were a few new lads on that team who were not good enough and it seemed to take Fitzmaurice a couple of years before he realised that. Keep bringing the young lads through, even if it means a barren couple of years, and leave the likes of Darren O Sullivan and Donaghy out of it as their day is done. I know it will mean the Dubs probably winning the five in a row and we'll all be as well to immigrate if that happens, but I don't think you'll beat them with the old brigade. You have the backbone of a good team with the likes of Murphy, Barry, Crowley (if you can keep him on the pitch ) Geaney and a fit O Donoghue. Add in the best of your three in a row minor teams and in two or three years time you should be able for the Dubs. The Dubs domination will not last forever as they will find it hard to replace the likes of Brogan, Cluxton, McCauley, Connolly and a couple of others. Those lads only come along once in a generation. There is nothing to challenge them at the minute. Galway are throwing shapes but the Dubs will dismantle them when it matters. Tyrone are improving but they are far from the Tyrone of old. Donegal maybe, but not for a few years and that's about it. We are gone I'm afraid and will be for some considerable time. Our coaching system is a shambles with two many lads content to go through the motions. Poor timekeeping, poor coaching sessions etc. There have been some moves lately to introduce some young ex county players as coaches, with the emphasis on young, but as usual with us it will be one step forward and two steps back. Mind you I like the look of our U20s manager but time will tell as we have tended to take the necessary funds from the minors to fund the senior team. We got very little out of our U21 winning team with a lot of them either carrying injuries or just losing interest and moving away. The big problem I can see down the road is the lack of players. Almost all our youth are moving away, even half our senior team are living in Dublin, and their families will grow up outside the county. I live in the country and there isn't a young lad in their twenties within two miles of me. When I was young we could field a team from my own village. Changed times and not for the better. Anyway that's my tuppence worth and apologies for trying to teach you Kerry lads how to suck eggs!"
That's a depressing assessment of Mayo's long term future Llaw, I hope its not so bad but unfortunately I suspect you are on the money. The West of Ireland is becoming a wasteland for the youth and the GAA will suffer massively. We see it already underage in Kerry, I know from my cousins up in Roscommon how places up there are nothing but ghost towns.
Some places like Killarney will escape due to the tourism but for most places its a very grim long term picture.
How any country our size can be run where the powers that be are content to focus economic growth and expansion on the capital, a few crumbs then shared out to the second and third cities and then practically nothing for the rest is beyond me.
Do they expect the entire population to live within the M50, because judging by Government policies that seems to be the plan.

TheHermit (Kerry) - Posts: 6354 - 22/03/2018 18:40:45    2087074

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