National Forum

Mayo V Donegal and the league in general 2017

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Replying To panamasam:  "Ah here any contact was minimal and on the calf. The big lad (with previous) goes down holding his ribs....it was embarrassing. I am quite content with Mayo winning today as it frees up the U-21's for remainder of their Ulster game so not as if I have chip on my shoulder cause of the result. That was a joke and an embarrassment to the sport. Not so much the officiating side of things esp considering the ref involved."
Striking or attempting to strike is a red. He got what he deserved and no point crying that O'Shea went down easy - if the boot didn't fly he would have no need to go down.

Torcaill (Australia) - Posts: 204 - 03/04/2017 08:29:57    1974566

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Replying To Torcaill:  "Striking or attempting to strike is a red. He got what he deserved and no point crying that O'Shea went down easy - if the boot didn't fly he would have no need to go down."
If the boot did'nt fly...will u cop onto yourself will you.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2850 - 03/04/2017 10:29:32    1974640

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Ironic that RTE did not show O'Se getting two punches to the face (to which to his credit did not react) but decided to discuss one poor enough camera action. Donegal players targeted O'Se the minute he came on but couldn't handle him. If Donegal had stuck to their own game they could have won. While Mayo were very good in the final 20mins I also go the feeling Donegal were happy to sit back.

Word is Donegal heading to New York for a training week.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11542 - 03/04/2017 10:37:22    1974647

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Replying To Torcaill:  "Striking or attempting to strike is a red. He got what he deserved and no point crying that O'Shea went down easy - if the boot didn't fly he would have no need to go down."
I think any honest person would be embaressed with O'Shea's reaction.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4953 - 03/04/2017 10:45:45    1974659

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I think Joe Brolly said it best in that he hates the Super 8 concept simply because it's going to be great.
Yesterday was a preview of what the Super 8 might just be like with some of the games playing at a championship pace. If we got that quality of game more regularly we would have a much better product in my opinion.
I think there's a very good chance that the weaker counties won't improve in the new format but I do see chances for the teams just outside the top 8 to improve. I think Kildare, Galway, Meath are already making good progress to bring themselves back for games against the big boys.
I'm just annoyed that after Sunday we have to wait a very long time before we see games of yesterdays standard again.

Will definitely be going to Croke Park on Sunday, this should be an absolute belter of a game

keithlemon (Australia) - Posts: 920 - 03/04/2017 10:49:02    1974664

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Replying To Fionn:  "People give out about AOS a lot, saying he is over rated and has no legs - that may well be the case but without him Mayo are only a shadow of a team. Very similar to Donegal without Michael Murphy. Both players have lost their legs and ability to get up and down the pitch as much as they used to, but both are Vital to their respective counties.

Mayo will win Connacht and Kerry will canter to another Munster title, so yes ye will be at the business end of the championship yet again.

However, I think Kerry will be on an upward curve in the next few years - I think the opposite may possibly be the case for Mayo.
Just my honest opinion."
Mayo without O'Shea aren't at as much of a loss as Donegal without Murphy. Murphy is a more skilful footballer, a better forward and he's more mentally and physically aggressive than Aidan. He does the smart things in the big games, be it taking out an opponent, winning a free or a point from 40 yards.

Aidan is still learning as a forward but he's getting better. I don't think he has shown yet how good he can be but he needs more aggression in big games to be mentioned in the same class as Michael Murphy.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7926 - 03/04/2017 10:49:28    1974665

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I find the rules of the game laughable at the moment. We have rules that are tight and enforced about attempting to strike but a different rule for actually properly striking or close lining someone.

The striking rule seems to be ignored all of the time when a player is in possession and his opponent hits him with a closed fist in the ribs 'attempting to get the ball.' Similarly, a close line tackle around the neck is a tactic used to stop a running player by a dangerous counter measure, and hopefully derail him for the rest of the game with fear or injury.

On the other hand, when a player attempts to strike, or raises his hand to strike and doesnt, the rule is enforced 100% of the time, usually because the opposition try and get the accused sent off.

A boot flying as someone said above makes it sound like a move in the ufc. Its more like the motion of someone getting out of bed ffs.

Anyway, bottom line is that we stayed up and this experience will stand to our lads. Play like we did in the 1st half and we will have a good summer.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3846 - 03/04/2017 10:50:41    1974667

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Replying To arock:  "I think any honest person would be embaressed with O'Shea's reaction."
The same ref was involved,as a linesman, when Lee Keegan was sent off against Kerry in 2014 for a half a**** kick that didn't connect, so at least he was consistent. From my view of it at the game it looked a clear red but it was hard to tell with the camera angle. At least Aido didn't go running after the ref waving an imaginary card, now that would really have been embarrassing.

Llaw_Gyffes (Mayo) - Posts: 1113 - 03/04/2017 11:01:13    1974674

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Ironic that RTE did not show O'Se getting two punches to the face (to which to his credit did not react) but decided to discuss one poor enough camera action. Donegal players targeted O'Se the minute he came on but couldn't handle him. If Donegal had stuck to their own game they could have won. While Mayo were very good in the final 20mins I also go the feeling Donegal were happy to sit back.

Word is Donegal heading to New York for a training week."
Get out of it sure was not in Donegal's interests to get into the physical stuff especially after the first half where the football done the talking. I was not at the game so can only comment on what I saw which was O'Shea role in the read card. There is a very different account of what went on in the 2nd half from the Donegal side. I have made my thoughts known and like I said fine with the result all about the U-21's Wednesday night for now.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2850 - 03/04/2017 11:06:05    1974678

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Replying To Llaw_Gyffes:  "The same ref was involved,as a linesman, when Lee Keegan was sent off against Kerry in 2014 for a half a**** kick that didn't connect, so at least he was consistent. From my view of it at the game it looked a clear red but it was hard to tell with the camera angle. At least Aido didn't go running after the ref waving an imaginary card, now that would really have been embarrassing."
He was too busy simulating grievous injury on the ground.

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3846 - 03/04/2017 11:11:53    1974684

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Replying To keithlemon:  "I think Joe Brolly said it best in that he hates the Super 8 concept simply because it's going to be great.
Yesterday was a preview of what the Super 8 might just be like with some of the games playing at a championship pace. If we got that quality of game more regularly we would have a much better product in my opinion.
I think there's a very good chance that the weaker counties won't improve in the new format but I do see chances for the teams just outside the top 8 to improve. I think Kildare, Galway, Meath are already making good progress to bring themselves back for games against the big boys.
I'm just annoyed that after Sunday we have to wait a very long time before we see games of yesterdays standard again.

Will definitely be going to Croke Park on Sunday, this should be an absolute belter of a game"
If you'd the league and championship merged and the league played later in the season I think the GAA would have a much better product.

The league has so much potential that's just not maximised in both codes.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4512 - 03/04/2017 11:18:08    1974687

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Look, O'Shea went down easy, what of it, Doherty lost his cool and paid the price. Everyone knows any sort of striking action like that and you're off, end of story. Hopefully he will learn, and hopefully the squad will learn from the second half yesterday. I've seen a few mention that Donegal seemed content to sit back but from where I was sat Rory was very animated trying to push us up. You have to give Mayo credit for how they came out second half in fairness.

As was mentioned, we secured Division 1 status and had a great league in terms of a learning curve over most of the matches. You can't ask for much more than that.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 03/04/2017 11:34:40    1974701

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Replying To JoeSoap:  "Look, O'Shea went down easy, what of it, Doherty lost his cool and paid the price. Everyone knows any sort of striking action like that and you're off, end of story. Hopefully he will learn, and hopefully the squad will learn from the second half yesterday. I've seen a few mention that Donegal seemed content to sit back but from where I was sat Rory was very animated trying to push us up. You have to give Mayo credit for how they came out second half in fairness.

As was mentioned, we secured Division 1 status and had a great league in terms of a learning curve over most of the matches. You can't ask for much more than that."
He went down holding his ribs any contact was on the calf and that contact was minimal. Think we need a few more rule changes so that the game becomes more similar to basketball in terms of punishment for contact received the way things are going.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2850 - 03/04/2017 11:49:34    1974715

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Replying To JoeSoap:  "Look, O'Shea went down easy, what of it, Doherty lost his cool and paid the price. Everyone knows any sort of striking action like that and you're off, end of story. Hopefully he will learn, and hopefully the squad will learn from the second half yesterday. I've seen a few mention that Donegal seemed content to sit back but from where I was sat Rory was very animated trying to push us up. You have to give Mayo credit for how they came out second half in fairness.

As was mentioned, we secured Division 1 status and had a great league in terms of a learning curve over most of the matches. You can't ask for much more than that."
This is strange. We pushed up at will in the 1st half and suddenly we didnt in the 2nd. Did we even try despite Mayo's improvement? or was it a case that we sat back and wanted to go sideways up the field? I am trying to imagine how we didnt score in the 2nd half after the 2 quick scores at the beginning of the half. Likewise the ulster final. Likewise the final game of the league v monaghan. All the same pattern. Is the players defensive behavior now out of the manager's control at this stage?

Donegalman (None) - Posts: 3846 - 03/04/2017 11:54:13    1974723

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Replying To panamasam:  "He went down holding his ribs any contact was on the calf and that contact was minimal. Think we need a few more rule changes so that the game becomes more similar to basketball in terms of punishment for contact received the way things are going."
Could be a good plan. Give the opposition a 21 yard free in front of the posts if the opposition reaches a foul limit in the half regardless of where the foul occured. Give weighting to name taken, black, yellow, red card.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7926 - 03/04/2017 12:11:00    1974733

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Replying To Donegalman:  "This is strange. We pushed up at will in the 1st half and suddenly we didnt in the 2nd. Did we even try despite Mayo's improvement? or was it a case that we sat back and wanted to go sideways up the field? I am trying to imagine how we didnt score in the 2nd half after the 2 quick scores at the beginning of the half. Likewise the ulster final. Likewise the final game of the league v monaghan. All the same pattern. Is the players defensive behavior now out of the manager's control at this stage?"
Could be a number of different factors really. I wouldn't include last years Ulster final as an example. Alot of changes in personnel to use it as a comparison. Last weeks Monaghan game can and should be used. Human nature and the fear of losing could be a reason and this is something that can be difficult to coach out of a team. Teams in most cases tend to sit back more when they have built up a lead, only the exceptional teams drive home their advantage e.g current Dublin team. Another factor could be conditioning/freshness of this Donegal team. We don't know how much training the older lads have in the legs at this stage and the under 21's have been flat out over the last few weeks so it could of caught up with them in the 2nd half. Either way I think it's a fixable problem that I'm sure the management team have a plan to rectify for championship.

Mobot (Donegal) - Posts: 459 - 03/04/2017 12:57:05    1974764

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Replying To panamasam:  "If the boot did'nt fly...will u cop onto yourself will you."
What part of that do you find hard to understand? The foot was raised, contact made, O'Shea made a meal of it but it is still a red card infraction. But all you claim to have seen was O'Sheas role in it!!!!!!!!

Torcaill (Australia) - Posts: 204 - 03/04/2017 13:10:35    1974770

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Replying To arock:  "I think any honest person would be embaressed with O'Shea's reaction."
Totally over reacted but he should not have been given the opportunity to. Right in front of the ref too - left him with no other option.

Torcaill (Australia) - Posts: 204 - 03/04/2017 13:16:10    1974773

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Replying To Donegalman:  "This is strange. We pushed up at will in the 1st half and suddenly we didnt in the 2nd. Did we even try despite Mayo's improvement? or was it a case that we sat back and wanted to go sideways up the field? I am trying to imagine how we didnt score in the 2nd half after the 2 quick scores at the beginning of the half. Likewise the ulster final. Likewise the final game of the league v monaghan. All the same pattern. Is the players defensive behavior now out of the manager's control at this stage?"
I couldn't make the Monaghan match so can't really comment on that one. What I saw yesterday was Mayo being an awful lot more physical with us in the second half, and we went into our shells a little bit. The sending off definitely had an impact in that regard as well, as it was a bit of a manic free-for-all for a good 5/10 minutes I felt before then.

I'd say psychologically there may have been a bit of a fear of losing, trying to be conservative and work an opening to get a point which wasn't working because Mayo were pushing so hard and being so physical - they weren't allowing us to build from the back or to secure possession too easily. As I say, I can only comment that there were a few times I thought Rory was quite animated in trying to get the team to push out a bit but for whatever reason the message was not getting on the pitch. Or if it was, the lads just didn't have the legs for it for whatever reason.

I don't think it's really fair to include the Ulster final in this. We've had a raft of changes personnel wise and I think when you take the league overall we have shown a lot of improvements on last year. The last 2 weeks would be worrying in how we didn't close out games we were in control of - however saying that even at Monaghan last week, they needed a last minute penalty to nick the draw. Though like I say, I wasn't there so I don't know the pattern of the second half really.

Wouldn't be hitting any panic buttons, I really don't think we were content to sit on 4 point lead, I feel it was more Mayo upped the intensity and physicality considerably and for whatever reason we didn't have the discipline on the day to deal with it.

JoeSoap (Donegal) - Posts: 1432 - 03/04/2017 13:52:18    1974804

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Replying To Torcaill:  "What part of that do you find hard to understand? The foot was raised, contact made, O'Shea made a meal of it but it is still a red card infraction. But all you claim to have seen was O'Sheas role in it!!!!!!!!"
I understand totally the embarrassment was there for all to see. A red card infraction for raising your leg and barely making contact with a lads calf? Laughable just like the reaction from AOS and the flying boot suggestion. Give over lads wasting your time defending that nonsense. Like I said It is not like I feel anyway aggrieved by the result happy that U-21's can get on solely with their business Wednesday night and hopefully an Ulster final thereafter.

panamasam (Australia) - Posts: 2850 - 03/04/2017 14:50:34    1974836

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