National Forum

Football Format Changes Discussion

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Replying To omahant:  "Does my format above on this page balance things out?"
You've come with so many different formats our heads are fried. Keep your equations for the class room.

Saynothing (Tyrone) - Posts: 2720 - 03/06/2026 17:37:28    2677718

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Replying To Whammo86:  "That's an improvement alright. Small tweaks where things are clearly wrong makes sense."
Tidying up the messy draw situation is an improvement, giving provincial winners guaranteed home games to get to the QF is a disaster.

JimB1991 (Donegal) - Posts: 188 - 03/06/2026 17:39:11    2677719

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This discussion has boiled down to 4 points of view

1. Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - wants status quo - so if Limerick get a luck draw and make a Munster final, they will be seeded in All Ireland first round and avoid all the provincial champions
2. Legendzxix (Kerry) - wants provincial winners to get the handiest draw possible because Kerry are always a provincial winner and having to face Donegal/Mayo at home in Killarney as their first serious match.
3. Omahant (US) - wants an over elaborate system that only 5% of people can follow

4. Everyone else - just wants the current system with the provincial Runners up not getting seeded primarily because Munster is so lop sided.

ITs a pit Hogan stand dont do Poll's

tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1853 - 04/06/2026 09:14:22    2677770

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Replying To JimB1991:  "Tidying up the messy draw situation is an improvement, giving provincial winners guaranteed home games to get to the QF is a disaster."
Sorry yes it was the draw piece I was focusing on.

The home advantage to the quarterfinals is a bit strange.

It's tough though because trying to have a fair All Ireland but also making the Provincials meaningful come into conflict most of the time.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4693 - 04/06/2026 10:46:00    2677795

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "This discussion has boiled down to 4 points of view

1. Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - wants status quo - so if Limerick get a luck draw and make a Munster final, they will be seeded in All Ireland first round and avoid all the provincial champions
2. Legendzxix (Kerry) - wants provincial winners to get the handiest draw possible because Kerry are always a provincial winner and having to face Donegal/Mayo at home in Killarney as their first serious match.
3. Omahant (US) - wants an over elaborate system that only 5% of people can follow

4. Everyone else - just wants the current system with the provincial Runners up not getting seeded primarily because Munster is so lop sided.

ITs a pit Hogan stand dont do Poll's"
Thats a very narrow and cynical way of both mine and legends perspective on the system.
I want a seeded system that recognises provincial championship success/progression plus recognition of league performance but capped at 16 teams one of which is the previous year's TC winner. I proposed seeding provincial winners 1, runners up 2, top 4 from league 3 and next 4/TC winners 4. I dont distinguish between provinces because under the current system they are treated equally and rightly so. Thats my point of view. I base it both on tradition and standing of the competitions in the season. The provincial championship is more prestigious and placed more centrally in the season accordingly. The league is early season and the All Ireland the final part. We work up to the all ireland not down. Teams use the league to build for the championship. Only this season on the Roscommon thread supporters were valuing a Connacht Championship win over pursuing a Division 1 league opportunity and they were in a position to pursue it. I absolutely believe that any new system must preserve the status of provincial championships and their link to the AI series. Otherwise they are dead and a slightly more prestigious version of the McGrath Cup and its equals.
Legends position, as I see it anyway, changes regularly. He was looking to break the link completely at one stage and was one of the first and strongest proponents of the straw man " let them stand on their merits" argument. He has moved away from that somewhat and now recognises that the provincial championships are an integral part of our system.
USA one is a stand alone complicated idea that I haven't really engaged with so wont comment any further.
Everyone else's as you put it simply isnt true. Some feel very strongly that the AI series should be 16 teams ranked only on league performance and dont care that it will destroy the provincial championships. They even claim that its already happening using big teams losses as proof without any evidence to support their claim only theoretical ideology.
Others want to retain the link but in a very complicated and diluted manner which largely amounts to the same thing. Playing the championship at the same time etc.

However, regardless of where you stand im very confident on this. Any reform that is proposed that is rooted solely or primarily in making life harder for the munster teams is flawed and therefore should be dismissed immediately. It is illogical to reform on the back of prejudice and shouldn't be entertained. Life is full of anomolies but we dont allow those anomolies to take centre stage in how we function and live our lives. It shouldn't happen in sport either.
Id also like to finish on this. If seeding was on league alone ( at end of league as per current seeding system) Kerry would still be in pot 1 and Cork in pot 2. Westmeath would be in pot 4 though.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 533 - 04/06/2026 11:26:24    2677812

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Replying To Drax_the_destroyer:  "So from next year the round 1 draw will be done differently split in two and the provincial winners will more than likely get a home match in round 1,2 and 3 if in it. More tweaks but at least HQ are admitting they have made mistakes."
Interesting.
1. Round 1 draw split in 2 makes sense.
2. Giving provincial winners home advantage in rounds 1 and 2 would offer something of a carrot.
3. 2A losers should be treated like group runners up under the previous format and given home advantage in Round 3. Winning Round 1 then would be guaranteeing at least a home game in Round 3.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9776 - 04/06/2026 12:46:11    2677848

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Replying To JimB1991:  "Tidying up the messy draw situation is an improvement, giving provincial winners guaranteed home games to get to the QF is a disaster."
Kerry lost in Round 1. If Kerry got through to Round 3, the team from 2A should have home advantage in Round 3 - similar to group runners up in the previous format. All 2B winners should be away in Round 3 after losing in Round 1.
Rightly or wrongly all provincial finalists were given home advantage in Round 1. Roscommon, Armagh, Kerry and Westmeath actually won their provinces. If rightly or wrongly all provincial finalists are to keep home advantage in Round 1, provincial WINNERS should have the reward of home game in Round 2 e.g. Roscommon home to Monaghan, Kerry home to Kildare, Armagh home to Louth and Westmeath at home to Galway.
The way Round 2 worked this year - all provincial winners are away in Round 2. Typical GAA that that would happen to shine something of a spotlight on it!!!!

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9776 - 04/06/2026 13:09:01    2677860

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "This discussion has boiled down to 4 points of view

1. Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - wants status quo - so if Limerick get a luck draw and make a Munster final, they will be seeded in All Ireland first round and avoid all the provincial champions
2. Legendzxix (Kerry) - wants provincial winners to get the handiest draw possible because Kerry are always a provincial winner and having to face Donegal/Mayo at home in Killarney as their first serious match.
3. Omahant (US) - wants an over elaborate system that only 5% of people can follow

4. Everyone else - just wants the current system with the provincial Runners up not getting seeded primarily because Munster is so lop sided.

ITs a pit Hogan stand dont do Poll's"
They do polls on the main page.If they counted a poll per username and not per poster their polls would be skewed.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8603 - 04/06/2026 13:25:38    2677863

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Interesting.
1. Round 1 draw split in 2 makes sense.
2. Giving provincial winners home advantage in rounds 1 and 2 would offer something of a carrot.
3. 2A losers should be treated like group runners up under the previous format and given home advantage in Round 3. Winning Round 1 then would be guaranteeing at least a home game in Round 3."
I like the idea of provincial winners getting home advantage but can't guarantee it in round 2 as I wouldn't want to restrict that draw so much, as provincial winners have to be able to draw each other. For example if this year Roscommon, Galway, Kerry, and Cork had all won R1 then with R2 split, and Roscommon & Kerry guaranteed home, the only valid draw is Kerry v Galway and Roscommon v Cork. That would not be a good scenario for the draw to suddenly not matter.

systematic (Galway) - Posts: 309 - 04/06/2026 13:37:50    2677870

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Re. Flip flopping on provincial championships linked to the All Ireland:
I'm in favour of provincial championships being standalone. Living in the reality that that is an unlikely change in the foreseeable future - any realistic tweaks to the championship has to work with the reality that the strenuous link is being kept.
Butter or mayo.. beef or salmon.. tea or coffee.. If the only future changes are minor changes around home advantage and partial draws - a lot of the discussion going forward is only on minor details.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9776 - 04/06/2026 13:49:26    2677880

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Replying To systematic:  "I like the idea of provincial winners getting home advantage but can't guarantee it in round 2 as I wouldn't want to restrict that draw so much, as provincial winners have to be able to draw each other. For example if this year Roscommon, Galway, Kerry, and Cork had all won R1 then with R2 split, and Roscommon & Kerry guaranteed home, the only valid draw is Kerry v Galway and Roscommon v Cork. That would not be a good scenario for the draw to suddenly not matter."
Within the current system provincial winners would be in with the other round one winners for the second round draw so probably shouldn't be seeded in that draw. Winning is the seeding.
Im not entirely in favour of the luck of the draw ( home advantage) concept for such an important competition, but if you keep winning its not much of an issue. As 2 wins gets you to CP if im correct? And you are at home for the first one.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 533 - 04/06/2026 13:59:44    2677885

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Replying To tirawleybaron:  "This discussion has boiled down to 4 points of view

1. Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - wants status quo - so if Limerick get a luck draw and make a Munster final, they will be seeded in All Ireland first round and avoid all the provincial champions
2. Legendzxix (Kerry) - wants provincial winners to get the handiest draw possible because Kerry are always a provincial winner and having to face Donegal/Mayo at home in Killarney as their first serious match.
3. Omahant (US) - wants an over elaborate system that only 5% of people can follow

4. Everyone else - just wants the current system with the provincial Runners up not getting seeded primarily because Munster is so lop sided.

ITs a pit Hogan stand dont do Poll's"
Very few claim my "elaborates" are unfair.
The Covid vaccine was welcomed by many, but its creation was far from easy and understood by too few.
Count yourself among the 5% (as you have).

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3438 - 04/06/2026 14:11:50    2677891

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Replying To Tadhg2020:  "Thats a very narrow and cynical way of both mine and legends perspective on the system.
I want a seeded system that recognises provincial championship success/progression plus recognition of league performance but capped at 16 teams one of which is the previous year's TC winner. I proposed seeding provincial winners 1, runners up 2, top 4 from league 3 and next 4/TC winners 4. I dont distinguish between provinces because under the current system they are treated equally and rightly so. Thats my point of view. I base it both on tradition and standing of the competitions in the season. The provincial championship is more prestigious and placed more centrally in the season accordingly. The league is early season and the All Ireland the final part. We work up to the all ireland not down. Teams use the league to build for the championship. Only this season on the Roscommon thread supporters were valuing a Connacht Championship win over pursuing a Division 1 league opportunity and they were in a position to pursue it. I absolutely believe that any new system must preserve the status of provincial championships and their link to the AI series. Otherwise they are dead and a slightly more prestigious version of the McGrath Cup and its equals.
Legends position, as I see it anyway, changes regularly. He was looking to break the link completely at one stage and was one of the first and strongest proponents of the straw man " let them stand on their merits" argument. He has moved away from that somewhat and now recognises that the provincial championships are an integral part of our system.
USA one is a stand alone complicated idea that I haven't really engaged with so wont comment any further.
Everyone else's as you put it simply isnt true. Some feel very strongly that the AI series should be 16 teams ranked only on league performance and dont care that it will destroy the provincial championships. They even claim that its already happening using big teams losses as proof without any evidence to support their claim only theoretical ideology.
Others want to retain the link but in a very complicated and diluted manner which largely amounts to the same thing. Playing the championship at the same time etc.

However, regardless of where you stand im very confident on this. Any reform that is proposed that is rooted solely or primarily in making life harder for the munster teams is flawed and therefore should be dismissed immediately. It is illogical to reform on the back of prejudice and shouldn't be entertained. Life is full of anomolies but we dont allow those anomolies to take centre stage in how we function and live our lives. It shouldn't happen in sport either.
Id also like to finish on this. If seeding was on league alone ( at end of league as per current seeding system) Kerry would still be in pot 1 and Cork in pot 2. Westmeath would be in pot 4 though."
Donegal lost their first championship game, their next fixture had them entering the all Ireland at the same time as Provincial champions.

The link between Provincials and All Ireland is definitely way diluted already. That's pretty much objective fact that you refuse to acknowledge.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4693 - 04/06/2026 14:23:49    2677894

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Re. Flip flopping on provincial championships linked to the All Ireland:
I'm in favour of provincial championships being standalone. Living in the reality that that is an unlikely change in the foreseeable future - any realistic tweaks to the championship has to work with the reality that the strenuous link is being kept.
Butter or mayo.. beef or salmon.. tea or coffee.. If the only future changes are minor changes around home advantage and partial draws - a lot of the discussion going forward is only on minor details."
Tentative Prov link.
Back to the Jim McGuinness old idea (4+11+1), with a twist.

- Sam 16 (Prov/TC Champs 5 + other NFL top 11)
- Schedule 2 initial Sam rounds:

- Rd 1A 'Fully' Open Draw (Prov Champs can meet, first out at home)
- Rd 1B (Automatic: 1st game away team in Rd 1A hosts 2nd game home team in Rd 1A; 2nd away hosts 3rd home etc....8th away hosts 1st home)

- Double winners to AI QFs (could be 0-8 teams); double losers are out (could be 0-8 teams); and others to Prelim QFs (could be 0-16 teams, maybe Rd of 16 is ideal)

- Do same for TC

Not elaborate, but still cynically no good?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3438 - 04/06/2026 14:50:59    2677901

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Donegal lost their first championship game, their next fixture had them entering the all Ireland at the same time as Provincial champions.

The link between Provincials and All Ireland is definitely way diluted already. That's pretty much objective fact that you refuse to acknowledge."
I dont agree. Donegal come back in on the strength of their league performance. All Provincial winners and lovers remain in the championship based on their provincial performance. Im not sure how you can claim that the link is diluted. The winners and lovers also get home venue as a reward. So what exactly are you talking about.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 533 - 04/06/2026 15:08:29    2677907

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Replying To systematic:  "I like the idea of provincial winners getting home advantage but can't guarantee it in round 2 as I wouldn't want to restrict that draw so much, as provincial winners have to be able to draw each other. For example if this year Roscommon, Galway, Kerry, and Cork had all won R1 then with R2 split, and Roscommon & Kerry guaranteed home, the only valid draw is Kerry v Galway and Roscommon v Cork. That would not be a good scenario for the draw to suddenly not matter."
Hmmm. Provincial finalists have home advantage and avoid each other in Round 1. Would it just be an extra reward for provincial winners that they would have home advantage and avoid each other in Round 2. It's not a major restriction like. Just looking to offer some reasonable carrot for actually winning the finals.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9776 - 04/06/2026 15:32:04    2677914

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Donegal lost their first championship game, their next fixture had them entering the all Ireland at the same time as Provincial champions.

The link between Provincials and All Ireland is definitely way diluted already. That's pretty much objective fact that you refuse to acknowledge."
I dont agree. Donegal come back in on the strength of their league performance. All Provincial winners and losers remain in the championship based on their provincial performance. Im not sure how you can claim that the link is diluted. The winners and lovers also get home venue as a reward. So what exactly are you talking about.

Tadhg2020 (Limerick) - Posts: 533 - 04/06/2026 15:48:34    2677922

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