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How Do We Take Hurling On From Here

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Mayo getting to a Ring final and Kildare getting to Leinster are notable achievements. A landmark achievement will be some breaking the top 4 stranglehold Leinster.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9611 - 01/04/2026 13:52:27    2664266

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Agree that looking at provincial and All-Ireland titles is not a suitable metric for measuring overall development of hurling. Realistically, would have to doubt that we'll ever see a first-time winner. But seeing counties rise a level or two and being competitive at that level is significant progress overall.

Of course, for everyone who goes up, somebody else has to come down. But even that could be seen as a "good" thing - e.g. if what used to be good enough to remain in the Ring is no longer good enough and you end up dropping to the Rackard instead, that's a sign that overall standards have risen in the Ring.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3463 - 01/04/2026 14:13:49    2664269

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Mayo getting to a Ring final and Kildare getting to Leinster are notable achievements. A landmark achievement will be some breaking the top 4 stranglehold Leinster."
Offaly might do that but would we call that a "new team". They obviously have tradition.

All eyes on Kildare now to see if they can push on at all.

I suppose the first goal is to survive.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4373 - 01/04/2026 14:40:22    2664276

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I wonder is there anything to be said for a promotion/relegation play off in Leinster?

Hard on the team that wins Joe Mac but to really build something it's no use going up and down like a yoyo either.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4373 - 01/04/2026 14:42:03    2664277

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "I wonder is there anything to be said for a promotion/relegation play off in Leinster?

Hard on the team that wins Joe Mac but to really build something it's no use going up and down like a yoyo either."
Definitely not. Hurling league had those playoffs. Winning your level has to mean promotion, even if that means harsh lessons.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9611 - 01/04/2026 15:02:13    2664279

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "I wonder is there anything to be said for a promotion/relegation play off in Leinster?

Hard on the team that wins Joe Mac but to really build something it's no use going up and down like a yoyo either."
Yet more protectionism. I'm of the opinion that relegating any team serves no purpose. But then I wonder why is it fair for some counties but not others?

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1583 - 01/04/2026 15:21:12    2664281

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "Yet more protectionism. I'm of the opinion that relegating any team serves no purpose. But then I wonder why is it fair for some counties but not others?"
Ah, but if you never relegated anyone, then you'd have seven teams in Leinster next year, followed by eight, nine, ten, etc., broken only by whenever Kerry would win what's left of the Joe McDonagh :)

Maybe it does beg the question though - how long does a team "need" at the higher level in order to raise its game consistently?

Three McDonagh Cup winners have gone straight back down the following year. Longest anybody's managed to stay up has been three years. If three is not enough, are you somehow then looking for a way to more or less guarantee them four, five, or even more?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3463 - 01/04/2026 16:10:01    2664287

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Ah, but if you never relegated anyone, then you'd have seven teams in Leinster next year, followed by eight, nine, ten, etc., broken only by whenever Kerry would win what's left of the Joe McDonagh :)

Maybe it does beg the question though - how long does a team "need" at the higher level in order to raise its game consistently?

Three McDonagh Cup winners have gone straight back down the following year. Longest anybody's managed to stay up has been three years. If three is not enough, are you somehow then looking for a way to more or less guarantee them four, five, or even more?"
Aside from the possibility of a "new" county doing what Wexford did in the early 50s and Offaly did in the early 80s, in other words get a generational team together from near enough nowhere, the only way a "new" county is going to get there is gradually increase hurling playing numbers and the number of clubs playing hurling at a good level, and then along with that the standard of coaching from the bottom up. A pointer that this will be going well is when schools in that county get more competitive, snd clubs in provincial competitions.
Looking at it from a demographic point of view ironically the 2 counties most likely to achieve this probably arent the traditional second tier counties, but probably more likely Kildare and Meath.
Im too much of an optimist to say thats never going to happen, but the realist in me acknowledges that that process will take many years.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19001 - 01/04/2026 16:41:13    2664296

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "Yet more protectionism. I'm of the opinion that relegating any team serves no purpose. But then I wonder why is it fair for some counties but not others?"
I'm inclined to agree but then you further dilute our championship and widen the perceived gap between the provinces. You can't have your cake and eat it as it were

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4373 - 01/04/2026 18:23:45    2664315

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Replying To Viking66:  "Aside from the possibility of a "new" county doing what Wexford did in the early 50s and Offaly did in the early 80s, in other words get a generational team together from near enough nowhere, the only way a "new" county is going to get there is gradually increase hurling playing numbers and the number of clubs playing hurling at a good level, and then along with that the standard of coaching from the bottom up. A pointer that this will be going well is when schools in that county get more competitive, snd clubs in provincial competitions.
Looking at it from a demographic point of view ironically the 2 counties most likely to achieve this probably arent the traditional second tier counties, but probably more likely Kildare and Meath.
Im too much of an optimist to say thats never going to happen, but the realist in me acknowledges that that process will take many years."
And the thing about that is an elite team now that doesn't have a conveyor as such only has about a 3 year peak. For us that was 17-19.

Carlow on the back of MLR success and a couple of underage teams came up and got a draw with kk and now they're back to square one.

I don't know what the answer is but it's very very tough to break the system.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4373 - 01/04/2026 18:27:30    2664316

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Not looking to labour the point or get stuck into format discussions. In a Leinster group of 8 where everyone plays a team from 4 seeded brackets, the lower 4 in relegation semi finals have the opportunity to retain Leinster status.
1. Kilkenny, Dublin
2. Wexford, Galway
3. Offaly, Kildare
4. Antrim, Carlow

Kilkenny v Dublin, Wexford and 2 lower seeds.
Dublin v Kilkenny, Galway and 2 lower seeds.
Wexford v Kilkenny, Galway and 2 lower seeds.
Galway v Dublin, Wexford and 2 lower seeds.

Example semi finals if finishing in top 4 after 4 games:
Kilkenny v Dublin
Galway v Wexford
Currently these four have 3 tough games in the group stage. Between 2 tough group rounds and a tough semi final they would retain 3 tough games before a possible Leinster final.

Offaly v Kildare, Antrim and 2 higher seeds.
Kildare v Offaly, Carlow and 2 higher seeds.
Antrim v Offaly, Carlow and 2 higher seeds.
Carlow v Kildare, Antrim and 2 higher seeds.

Example relegation semi finals if finishing in the bottom 4 after 4 games:
Offaly v Kildare
Antrim v Carlow
These four would have 2 group games of a reasonable equivalent level. If in relegation semi finals, they've a more reasonable opportunity to retain Leinster status. Sin é.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 9611 - 01/04/2026 19:04:35    2664321

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Replying To legendzxix:  "Not looking to labour the point or get stuck into format discussions. In a Leinster group of 8 where everyone plays a team from 4 seeded brackets, the lower 4 in relegation semi finals have the opportunity to retain Leinster status.
1. Kilkenny, Dublin
2. Wexford, Galway
3. Offaly, Kildare
4. Antrim, Carlow

Kilkenny v Dublin, Wexford and 2 lower seeds.
Dublin v Kilkenny, Galway and 2 lower seeds.
Wexford v Kilkenny, Galway and 2 lower seeds.
Galway v Dublin, Wexford and 2 lower seeds.

Example semi finals if finishing in top 4 after 4 games:
Kilkenny v Dublin
Galway v Wexford
Currently these four have 3 tough games in the group stage. Between 2 tough group rounds and a tough semi final they would retain 3 tough games before a possible Leinster final.

Offaly v Kildare, Antrim and 2 higher seeds.
Kildare v Offaly, Carlow and 2 higher seeds.
Antrim v Offaly, Carlow and 2 higher seeds.
Carlow v Kildare, Antrim and 2 higher seeds.

Example relegation semi finals if finishing in the bottom 4 after 4 games:
Offaly v Kildare
Antrim v Carlow
These four would have 2 group games of a reasonable equivalent level. If in relegation semi finals, they've a more reasonable opportunity to retain Leinster status. Sin é."
I actually really like that

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4373 - 01/04/2026 21:53:05    2664341

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "I actually really like that"
I like how we wouldn't have to play Dublin in the schedule set out above, since they're the ones we haven't been able to beat at all in recent years! :D

Seriously though, I think it might be too arbitrary as regards deciding who exactly you play from each seeding group. For example, realistically Kilkenny are still probably the "strongest" team in Leinster each year. The team from the other three higher seeds (Dublin/Wexford/Galway) who doesn't have to play them would have an immediate advantage over the other two teams there.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3463 - 02/04/2026 11:54:22    2664386

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