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Replying To SouthOfTheGap: "I think we have a long term plan in place with Karl Lacey in place as Head of the Academy System, and Damien Diver as the Coaching Officer. The future is their portfolio.
Jim is the best man for the here and now, and if the Academy system delivers, then he will have the quality of player to compete at the top every year. My hope is that Jim will stay for many years to come.
I do think that the Kerry Model County Championship is worth exploring. Its been debated here previously. I personally think it could work well." Kerry have 39 all Irelands, you wouldn't need to be Einstein to figure out that we can learn from them.
Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3404 - 30/07/2025 19:10:07
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Thanks folks, being following this forum for a while but just needed a brain dump after the intercounty season and you are the ones to unfortunately receive it!
I do definitely think a champ structure like Kerry would work but would require some buy in from all the clubs. Like what CCfabu said, I wouldn't have a problem taking the Kingdoms ideas and producing something to suit.
Ya if the academy is producing players like Finnbarr then we are in for a treat. He is something else. Definitely young player of the year and I would have him high up the list for player of the year!
Mousie34 (Donegal) - Posts: 5 - 30/07/2025 19:42:47
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Thanks folks, being following this forum for a while but just needed a brain dump after the intercounty season and you are the ones to unfortunately receive it!
I do definitely think a champ structure like Kerry would work but would require some buy in from all the clubs. Like what CCfabu said, I wouldn't have a problem taking the Kingdoms ideas and producing something to suit.
Ya if the academy is producing players like Finnbarr then we are in for a treat. He is something else. Definitely young player of the year and I would have him high up the list for player of the year!
There is no doubt McG is an exceptional manager. That's the thing AI_Maguire would be good idea an outsider to help innovate. I know it has and hasn't worked before but I think it is something that is needed.
We have exceptional players as well and McG getting them to believe that is unreal.
Does anyone know the age profile of the Kerry team would love to have a look at it but can't find it anywhere online?
Mousie34 (Donegal) - Posts: 5 - 30/07/2025 19:43:33
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Replying To Commodore: "Yeah I believe Jim will stay on for the final year of his agreed 3 year term. After that he will likely still want to pursue a soccer challenge now that he has his Full UEFA license, but I believe he will see out his full agreed term hopefully." No harm to him but I don't see the point in him trying his hand at soccer again. I wish he would just stay with Donegal for at 3-4 years more.
eddieSize5Balls (Donegal) - Posts: 224 - 30/07/2025 19:54:05
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I obviously hope McGuinness stays on, but if a soccer team comes in with a decent offer, he might not have much choice but to take it.
I think a lot of the post-match analysis has been too extreme - there's no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The zonal defence might need a few tweaks here and there, but it definitely shouldn't be abandoned.
As I mentioned in another post, five of Kerry's first-half points came directly from Donegal mistakes. Add another two from the throw-ups, and that's disappointing. We've struggled to win those all year, and while that's frustrating, there's probably only so much that can be done - maybe even stop contesting them.
Letting Gavin White run the same move twice, each time resulting in a point, wasn't good enough. Someone should have had a hold of his jersey; whatever about the first half, he definitely should have been stopped at source in the second.
These kind of things, along with Kerry being very sharp on the day were big reasons for the loss. I also take issue with the two-point punishment for McCole's accidental leg entanglement with Clifford. Yes, it's a free, but conceding two points from it feels very harsh.
Two points for outside the arc and one for inside is too big a difference as well. Shaggykev is right.
Ulsterchamps_32 (Donegal) - Posts: 924 - 30/07/2025 19:59:49
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Replying To SurelyToGod: "Totally agree. Have been banging this drum for the entire season on here. In two seasons Jim hasn't lost a Championship game where he played one of Curran or McMeniman." I trust him when it comes to defence. He played our best 6 defenders. I'm sorry but McMenamin or Curran wouldn't have helped on Sunday. Curran still has time to make an impression though but Steven is into his 30s now.
We lost it in the middle of the field mostly. We have big men though. Just two of them were injured quite a bit all year (McGee and Caolan)
I like what I see from Shane OD though this year. Great runner of the ball. He could maybe be our answer to Paudi Clifford. Just needs to improve shooting.
eddieSize5Balls (Donegal) - Posts: 224 - 30/07/2025 20:47:56
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Replying To eddieSize5Balls: "I trust him when it comes to defence. He played our best 6 defenders. I'm sorry but McMenamin or Curran wouldn't have helped on Sunday. Curran still has time to make an impression though but Steven is into his 30s now.
We lost it in the middle of the field mostly. We have big men though. Just two of them were injured quite a bit all year (McGee and Caolan)
I like what I see from Shane OD though this year. Great runner of the ball. He could maybe be our answer to Paudi Clifford. Just needs to improve shooting." Ur spot on Eddie.
Midfield was massive for us sun and we didn't do it in the first half there. I doubt if the 2 defenders you mention will stay about curran has committed now for 5yrs and will feel aggrieved bout his championship outings after a good league campaign. We need to unearth or at least develop a couple of ole dogs in defence I feel that will throw a shape at someone when theyv a run at them. We certainly had a few bucks that were able to take care of themselves in 12 and be no harm having a couple again in the future if we've to stand up to a team like kerry again in the future.
Tyrion (Donegal) - Posts: 171 - 30/07/2025 21:19:20
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I'd love to see some sort of timeline of how the amalgamated Kerry Championship runs alongside the championship for clubs.
Regarding out underage success, or lack of it, we are behind in school football due to the size of the schools in The North and that might play a part when it comes to having experience in big games.
ThroughTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 83 - 30/07/2025 21:38:12
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Replying To eddieSize5Balls: "I trust him when it comes to defence. He played our best 6 defenders. I'm sorry but McMenamin or Curran wouldn't have helped on Sunday. Curran still has time to make an impression though but Steven is into his 30s now.
We lost it in the middle of the field mostly. We have big men though. Just two of them were injured quite a bit all year (McGee and Caolan)
I like what I see from Shane OD though this year. Great runner of the ball. He could maybe be our answer to Paudi Clifford. Just needs to improve shooting." I'm not as up to date with some of your individual players as Kerrys and that's somewhat indicative of why Kerry are champions. Spare me now till I explain..With old rules Donegal would be champions 2025 as they play much more of a combined system as was the case with most teams for years and Kerry struggled against that for those years. However Kerry have continually produced better individual footballers who were somewhat lost in the old rules and naivety and lack of willingness to adapt cost them a few All Irelands. Tradition was never going to be beat out of Kerry and those players can now just go for it and we saw that in Croke Park on Sunday. The new rules allow for footballers to play football and its not before time. Imagine Tyrone beat Kerry in 2021 semi! Jim McGuinness had much more adapting to do than Jack O Connor did and thats legacy more than anything. Donegal have those players but they need more freedom.. Donegal can't have too many complaints. 2 Ulsters in a row and a semi final and final appearance in 2 yrs..If the truth be told last years semi against Galway was the biggest miss of all time because yee always know how to beat Armagh.
Dothesimplethingswell (Sligo) - Posts: 6 - 30/07/2025 21:55:24
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Hello all Donegal Gaels.
Commiserations on your All Ireland loss. You were beaten on the day tactically and by an overall better team.
I'm here as I've seen many people commentate on the early abandonment of the parade behind the Artane band.
Maybe it was an effort to gain an edge over Kerry but it's my opinion it was highly disrespectful to the band, opposition and the event itself.
Instead of revelling in the atmosphere and historical traditions, the team engaged in one up-manship tactics maybe in an attempt to unnerve the opposition or gain a percent or 2.
Separately, In the pre-lim QF my county men of Louth were soundly beaten by Donegal in Ballybofey. Donegal were superior and fair play to those players.
With approx 10 mins left however, Jimmy and the bench headed to the dressing rooms leaving the remainder on the pitch to close out the game. I assume to get planning for the next game.
I was dismayed with this move. Would holding out for 10-15 mins and closing out the game in the usual manner made that much difference to the overall goal?
Consequently, I was not surprised with the parade antics in Croke park. Note that other teams have also done the same I previous years. Is there any actual advantage to this? I really doubt it.
Enjoy the occasion for what it is, follow the parade to the end, sing Amhrán na BhFiann like your life depends on it.
I was at the semi final, Kerry v Tyrone and a Kerry man in front of me sang with so much pride, so obvious that it meant everything to him, the occasion, his club, his county and his country.
I never spoke to him but I was delighted for him on All Ireland day.
ged (Louth) - Posts: 321 - 30/07/2025 21:57:44
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Replying To Ulsterchamps_32: "I obviously hope McGuinness stays on, but if a soccer team comes in with a decent offer, he might not have much choice but to take it.
I think a lot of the post-match analysis has been too extreme - there's no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The zonal defence might need a few tweaks here and there, but it definitely shouldn't be abandoned.
As I mentioned in another post, five of Kerry's first-half points came directly from Donegal mistakes. Add another two from the throw-ups, and that's disappointing. We've struggled to win those all year, and while that's frustrating, there's probably only so much that can be done - maybe even stop contesting them.
Letting Gavin White run the same move twice, each time resulting in a point, wasn't good enough. Someone should have had a hold of his jersey; whatever about the first half, he definitely should have been stopped at source in the second.
These kind of things, along with Kerry being very sharp on the day were big reasons for the loss. I also take issue with the two-point punishment for McCole's accidental leg entanglement with Clifford. Yes, it's a free, but conceding two points from it feels very harsh.
Two points for outside the arc and one for inside is too big a difference as well. Shaggykev is right." Generally agree especially about the reaction being a bit OTT, but on the throw ins - Ryan's injury came from the 2nd throw in. They were obviously told go hell for leather for that ball, him and White went at full pelt and unfortunately Ryan came off 2nd best in a bad collision. A bit of cuteness and pull on White's jersey maybe, but I think they recognised they weren't at the races for the first one.
Also 100% agree on a 2 point free. Both the tangle of legs and the one on Paudie Clifford 2nd half (I think it was Mogan) were absolute daggers. Both fouls yes but is a free 2 point shot really fair for those types of fouls, not cynical at all? I'm not sure but I don't know how they fix that without it getting too convoluted.
In terms of an outside coach, I don't know. So long as the dynamic is right and it's Jim's decision. Hindsight is 20/20 but in my view Rochford was the beginning of the end for Declan's tenure. And I like that we see lads from 2012 involved, I think it's important that successful players from the past get involved coaching at all levels. No more than what Jim said about getting the best minor each year involved, I think we need to harness coaching talent within the county as well.
CCFabu (Donegal) - Posts: 269 - 30/07/2025 22:20:20
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Replying To Ulsterchamps_32: "I obviously hope McGuinness stays on, but if a soccer team comes in with a decent offer, he might not have much choice but to take it.
I think a lot of the post-match analysis has been too extreme - there's no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The zonal defence might need a few tweaks here and there, but it definitely shouldn't be abandoned.
As I mentioned in another post, five of Kerry's first-half points came directly from Donegal mistakes. Add another two from the throw-ups, and that's disappointing. We've struggled to win those all year, and while that's frustrating, there's probably only so much that can be done - maybe even stop contesting them.
Letting Gavin White run the same move twice, each time resulting in a point, wasn't good enough. Someone should have had a hold of his jersey; whatever about the first half, he definitely should have been stopped at source in the second.
These kind of things, along with Kerry being very sharp on the day were big reasons for the loss. I also take issue with the two-point punishment for McCole's accidental leg entanglement with Clifford. Yes, it's a free, but conceding two points from it feels very harsh.
Two points for outside the arc and one for inside is too big a difference as well. Shaggykev is right." Sour grapes maybe kerry just better on the day caused some mistakes. Here we with 2 points now you have lost ye didn't try for then with shooters ye have until late but it's same every team with 2 .
4 pt goal maybe should come but sounds like kerry kicked them or had balls to on day and now want cry about sorry but sounds like sour grapes. I thi k kerry would have still won
Gaaforlife2023 (Longford) - Posts: 855 - 31/07/2025 00:26:58
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Replying To Mousie34: "Thanks folks, being following this forum for a while but just needed a brain dump after the intercounty season and you are the ones to unfortunately receive it!
I do definitely think a champ structure like Kerry would work but would require some buy in from all the clubs. Like what CCfabu said, I wouldn't have a problem taking the Kingdoms ideas and producing something to suit.
Ya if the academy is producing players like Finnbarr then we are in for a treat. He is something else. Definitely young player of the year and I would have him high up the list for player of the year!
There is no doubt McG is an exceptional manager. That's the thing AI_Maguire would be good idea an outsider to help innovate. I know it has and hasn't worked before but I think it is something that is needed.
We have exceptional players as well and McG getting them to believe that is unreal.
Does anyone know the age profile of the Kerry team would love to have a look at it but can't find it anywhere online?" Some younger players and few older ones most around 24 26 or 27 though from reading programme
Gaaforlife2023 (Longford) - Posts: 855 - 31/07/2025 00:27:44
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Replying To Mousie34: "This is going to be a very unpopular opinion...I think McGuinness is a great manager and has brought so much joy to the county over the years and I must stress I'm no expert!!! But I can help but thinking with McG is it short term gain for long term pain. I don't know how to phrase it but I will try... McGuinness is involved in a lot of the managing / coaching (could it be classes as micromanaging - which isnt great in any context as it give this impression that you can't be trusted to undertake a task on your own) that I think the players can be automonous. This is good when its going well but very bad when it doesn't. Take for example on Sunday - the kickouts being dropped on Joe O'Connor could someone not of taken the initiative on the pitch and said this ain't working?! Likewise, Clifford having all the time on the ball someone take it by the scruff an so something about it (I know about tactics and space being created inside and that - but I'm thinking high level stuff at the minute). Not taking two pointers as another example. I'm not getting at the players or management, but I think the players should be allowed to make more decisions in realtime and not stuck to a 'system'.... I remember Jim Gavin saying once this is all player lead and we just facilitate it (I know he is a shroud operator as well so could be taken as a pinch of salt). Another thing Clifford said we are allowed to do what we want up front (obviously they have the quality to do that), Cian O'Neill said Jack let's them do what they have to do coaching wise... Anyway long winded post but we seen what happen in 2014 when McG left, will the same happen this year (or next year) when he goes and a few retirements also. As someone else stated I think this year was the year we win or it's bust. I cant see us coming back as strong next year...Should we be concentrating on the long term not the short, how do change the shift in focus from systems etc....
My thoughts would be for the future would be to have a manager to over see everything, with top Donegal coaches and a coach from outside the county for a different perspective (I'm tipping Philly McMahon to do top stuff wherever he ends up). My only fear with coaches from the inside is their tutelage under McG and would there be systems etc. and the same school or thought etc.
We also need to have a championship or similar comp like they have in Kerry for Junior and Intermediate to expose them to senior football. This would drive players on in this grade and also has the potential to unearth more players in addition to the academy.
As I said Im no expert and my thoughts are all high level stuff...I would love to hear opinions, and this is not a post to give out about anyone, just generally interested and passionate about Donegal GAA." I disagree. Jim has spoken all year about creating an environment and system for players to succeed, but ultimately its then about trusting the players on the pitch to make decisions. He also alluded to this in 2011 after the Kildare All Ireland QF, that tactics etc was out the window, it was down to the players to find a way. However like Jim Gavin, he implements structures to minimize risk and give players the best platform to perform.
Take the kick-outs on Sunday, Patton wasn't trying to drop ball on Joe O'Connor in that open 15 minutes, O'Connor was mobile and Kerry had done their homework on any pattern to his kick-outs and exploited it. We knew this would happen, so one criticism of the management team was probably that they didn't take counter measures weeks before the final and also leaving Hugh McFadden and Jason McGee on the bench proved costly too, as we missed physicality around the middle. We finally got to grips with them in the 2nd half, but chasing the game for too long runs down energy levels and pushing up hard left us exposed at the back for a late goal. Nerves got to some of younger players, as is common for young players from Kerry, Dublin etc in the past.
I would be refrain from being critical of the Donegal management after the All Ireland final, because they got a lot of things right this year and will learn from the mistakes in that final, we were a Top 2 County in 2025, so they are doing a lot right.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1448 - 31/07/2025 08:42:04
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Replying To eddieSize5Balls: "I trust him when it comes to defence. He played our best 6 defenders. I'm sorry but McMenamin or Curran wouldn't have helped on Sunday. Curran still has time to make an impression though but Steven is into his 30s now.
We lost it in the middle of the field mostly. We have big men though. Just two of them were injured quite a bit all year (McGee and Caolan)
I like what I see from Shane OD though this year. Great runner of the ball. He could maybe be our answer to Paudi Clifford. Just needs to improve shooting." Stephen McMenamin isn't 30 yet, I think he is 28, will be 29 next season. In 2019 Super 8's he limited David Clifford to 3 points in Croke Park, definitely more to him than meets the eye.
It was clear from when McCole clinched with David Clifford that Clifford had the greater upper body strength, that is one area where Stephen McMenamin probably would have tilted the scales the other way, as he far stronger and more gritty. McCole is more athletic, but I think McMenamin would have been an asset in mopping up dirty breaking ball on Sunday, he excels in those games.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1448 - 31/07/2025 08:48:27
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I think there's always room for critical analysis, but like others have mentioned, I don't think we should be ripping up the script entirely either. After all, it was good enough to win another difficult Ulster title and get us to only our fourth ever All-Ireland final. One thing I'd like to see is the odd quicker attack by foot-pass or long direct ball. It won't always be an option, but at least have it in the locker to keep opposition defences guessing. We did it a couple of times in the Ulster final, but then seemed to discard it completely.
I'd be hopeful that more traditional man-marking defenders will emerge from club-level owing to the new rules. Similarly, tricky, speedy inside forwards should also flourish. For big men around the middle, I'm looking forward to seeing how Domhnall MacGiolla Bhríde gets on in the club championships, and if he can perhaps stake a claim in the 2026 league. As we found to out cost the other day, if you're not winning the majority of possession around the middle of the park from kickouts, you're very much on the back foot.
Lockjaw (Donegal) - Posts: 9954 - 31/07/2025 09:31:55
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Replying To ged: "Hello all Donegal Gaels.
Commiserations on your All Ireland loss. You were beaten on the day tactically and by an overall better team.
I'm here as I've seen many people commentate on the early abandonment of the parade behind the Artane band.
Maybe it was an effort to gain an edge over Kerry but it's my opinion it was highly disrespectful to the band, opposition and the event itself.
Instead of revelling in the atmosphere and historical traditions, the team engaged in one up-manship tactics maybe in an attempt to unnerve the opposition or gain a percent or 2.
Separately, In the pre-lim QF my county men of Louth were soundly beaten by Donegal in Ballybofey. Donegal were superior and fair play to those players.
With approx 10 mins left however, Jimmy and the bench headed to the dressing rooms leaving the remainder on the pitch to close out the game. I assume to get planning for the next game.
I was dismayed with this move. Would holding out for 10-15 mins and closing out the game in the usual manner made that much difference to the overall goal?
Consequently, I was not surprised with the parade antics in Croke park. Note that other teams have also done the same I previous years. Is there any actual advantage to this? I really doubt it.
Enjoy the occasion for what it is, follow the parade to the end, sing Amhrán na BhFiann like your life depends on it.
I was at the semi final, Kerry v Tyrone and a Kerry man in front of me sang with so much pride, so obvious that it meant everything to him, the occasion, his club, his county and his country.
I never spoke to him but I was delighted for him on All Ireland day." Three things.
1. Ballybofey match against Louth, the reason they left the pitch early was to avoid pitch crowd invasion and get players into recovery asap, as we were in the middle of a crazy series of weekly games and in previous games they were struggling to get players off the pitch due to the number of fans surrounding them. It wasn't meant as disrespect, purely a response to the hectic schedule.
2. I'm not sure what the story was around the players leaving the parade at that point, possibly nerves due to the big occasion. Only 3 Donegal players had previously contested an All Ireland final, only 2 had won one, so this was a new experience for most of these players and most were very nervous. I think breaking away a bit early was probably an attempt to get them warming up and mentally settled before throw-in. This Kerry team have been in 3 or 4 finals prior to this one and had won one, so they definitely had more experience of the occasion.
3. A large contingent of Donegal fans stayed on after the final whistle to applaud Kerry lifting the cup and congratulate the Kerry fans and wish them safe home. It was notable though was that many Kerry fans evacuated the Stadium immediately ahead of Donegal fans, no celebrating or anything, just a few minutes clapping and then off down the road. I'm not critical of this, having won so many All Ireland's its understandable, it just doesn't have the same effect for them. B
However based on recent online evidence, I can't help but feel that if Donegal fans did that, we would be under full scale attack.
Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1448 - 31/07/2025 10:16:31
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To compete with kerry we need to play 3 or 4 natural defenders. I've been criticised on here for stating this for a few years now. Playing in croke park is where your tested especially against teams like kerry. Do we have these type defenders in the county i don't think so. It pains me to say. Hopefully we might come across 1 or 2 in the c ship. Mc menamin marked Clifford in 2019 and held him well but I'm privy to how he was training. But he's 29 coming and is the defender we need an in your face defender..
rorysboys (Donegal) - Posts: 2658 - 31/07/2025 10:55:35
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Replying To Lockjaw: "I think there's always room for critical analysis, but like others have mentioned, I don't think we should be ripping up the script entirely either. After all, it was good enough to win another difficult Ulster title and get us to only our fourth ever All-Ireland final. One thing I'd like to see is the odd quicker attack by foot-pass or long direct ball. It won't always be an option, but at least have it in the locker to keep opposition defences guessing. We did it a couple of times in the Ulster final, but then seemed to discard it completely.
I'd be hopeful that more traditional man-marking defenders will emerge from club-level owing to the new rules. Similarly, tricky, speedy inside forwards should also flourish. For big men around the middle, I'm looking forward to seeing how Domhnall MacGiolla Bhríde gets on in the club championships, and if he can perhaps stake a claim in the 2026 league. As we found to out cost the other day, if you're not winning the majority of possession around the middle of the park from kickouts, you're very much on the back foot." McFadden/Ferry would have done a good job on either of the Cliffords, especially Paudie.
jacktheboy (Donegal) - Posts: 493 - 31/07/2025 11:50:49
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I saw a clip somewhere Philly McMahon was talking about stats from the game.Donegal matched Kerry in almost every respect except for one and that was the tackle count.Kerry had far more tackles than Donegal.There is a lot of talk about tactics and defenders but there is one prime reason that Kerry won the game and that is that they were far more up for the game.They seemed to relish the game and played with great aggression and intensity.All this talk about the superior skills they have is nonsense.As a famous commentator in another sport always said "You have to be bang at it".Donegal were definitely not bang at it on the day.That showed up particularly in the way Kerry attacked breaking ball and the ferocity of their tackling.If you succeed in the less pretty parts of the game it gives you the opportunity to play your football.
gunman (Donegal) - Posts: 1186 - 31/07/2025 11:53:33
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