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Replying To SouthOfTheGap:  "You are wrong. It was the policies of the Fianna Fail and Progressive Democrat coalition government of 2002 - 2007, which was returned with an even greater majority in 2007, that planted the seeds that led to the bank guarantee of 2008 and subsequent IMF arrival in 2010. Fine Gael were not any part of government and were trenchant opponents of Fianna Fail at this time, coming into government in 2011."
Fine Gael might not have financially bankrupt the country but they have morally bankrupt it since coming into power in 2011.

2011 Homelessness Figures - 3808

March 2026 Homelessness Figures - 17308

There are now more children homeless in Ireland than there was total homeless in 2011.

A damning indictment of their 15 years in government.

peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 1551 - 16/04/2026 11:42:16    2666728

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Replying To peiledoir20:  "Fine Gael might not have financially bankrupt the country but they have morally bankrupt it since coming into power in 2011.

2011 Homelessness Figures - 3808

March 2026 Homelessness Figures - 17308

There are now more children homeless in Ireland than there was total homeless in 2011.

A damning indictment of their 15 years in government."
That it is a damming inditement however these figures also need more scrutiny in light of a near 1mil increase in the population since then. Our Government refuse to have adult & reasonable conversations about the elephants in the room and I'm afraid it's no longer good enough.

Square_B (Leitrim) - Posts: 1969 - 16/04/2026 12:21:35    2666735

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Replying To peiledoir20:  "Fine Gael might not have financially bankrupt the country but they have morally bankrupt it since coming into power in 2011.

2011 Homelessness Figures - 3808

March 2026 Homelessness Figures - 17308

There are now more children homeless in Ireland than there was total homeless in 2011.

A damning indictment of their 15 years in government."
For what its worth I agree with you, I believe that the government are doing a very poor job, especially around migration. But I had to correct what he was saying as it was factually incorrect, Fine Gael did not have any part in bankrupting the country. I like to deal in facts, and challenge those who don't.

Another fact is that there are 1 million more people in the country today than there was in 2011 (Census figures). So you have to adjust figures accordingly. The majority of that extra 1 million people are net contributers to the economy, but a small proportion have been a burden, both financially and socially to the State. That has to be rectified.

SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 918 - 16/04/2026 12:27:27    2666736

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "What do you think is the solution then? To be honest I thought FG/Lab 2011 was an opportunity. We know how that went. I am from a labour family, but have pretty much given up at this stage."
Refusal to have anything to do with the State. That's what I do. Can't stop them collecting tax from wages. Other than that, minimal contact.

SF ought to have stayed out of Stormont. Ceasefire was right decision. What followed was not.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4188 - 16/04/2026 12:34:57    2666738

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Replying To SouthOfTheGap:  "For what its worth I agree with you, I believe that the government are doing a very poor job, especially around migration. But I had to correct what he was saying as it was factually incorrect, Fine Gael did not have any part in bankrupting the country. I like to deal in facts, and challenge those who don't.

Another fact is that there are 1 million more people in the country today than there was in 2011 (Census figures). So you have to adjust figures accordingly. The majority of that extra 1 million people are net contributers to the economy, but a small proportion have been a burden, both financially and socially to the State. That has to be rectified."
Do you mean able bodied adults drawing unemployment allowances while loads of jobs are available?

Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 486 - 16/04/2026 12:42:19    2666740

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Replying To Square_B:  "That it is a damming inditement however these figures also need more scrutiny in light of a near 1mil increase in the population since then. Our Government refuse to have adult & reasonable conversations about the elephants in the room and I'm afraid it's no longer good enough."
Where the 1 million dropped in at once on a random Tuesday afternoon catching the government on the hop?

No they were not.

Most capable governments will make estimations and future projections around population growth, required services infrastructure etc.

This government (of which Fine Gael has been a constant since 2011) sadly could not even get something that basic correct.

peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 1551 - 16/04/2026 12:53:48    2666744

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Refusal to have anything to do with the State. That's what I do. Can't stop them collecting tax from wages. Other than that, minimal contact.

SF ought to have stayed out of Stormont. Ceasefire was right decision. What followed was not."
So you don't use public roads/footpaths?
Public water or sewers?
Public transport?
Won't take OAP?
Won't use public hospitals?

Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 486 - 16/04/2026 13:01:32    2666748

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Replying To Seanfan:  "Do you mean able bodied adults drawing unemployment allowances while loads of jobs are available?"
Absolutely. The fact is that there is a job out there for everyone. Every job may not be your dream job, you may have to make concessions, but there is a relevant job out there no matter what your circumstances are. I am a firm believer that work is good for every part of you, physically and emotionally.

SouthOfTheGap (Donegal) - Posts: 918 - 16/04/2026 13:24:53    2666755

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Replying To Seanfan:  "So you don't use public roads/footpaths?
Public water or sewers?
Public transport?
Won't take OAP?
Won't use public hospitals?"
They are proper public provisions. I don't pay LPT or TV license if that helps.

Minimal means little, not none, by the way.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4188 - 16/04/2026 13:40:01    2666761

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Replying To SouthOfTheGap:  "For what its worth I agree with you, I believe that the government are doing a very poor job, especially around migration. But I had to correct what he was saying as it was factually incorrect, Fine Gael did not have any part in bankrupting the country. I like to deal in facts, and challenge those who don't.

Another fact is that there are 1 million more people in the country today than there was in 2011 (Census figures). So you have to adjust figures accordingly. The majority of that extra 1 million people are net contributers to the economy, but a small proportion have been a burden, both financially and socially to the State. That has to be rectified."
Were Fine Gael completely unaware of what was going on before the banking crisis? What's a government opposition's job if not to keep tabs on the government? They were quick enough to take credit for the recovery of the economy when it was the Troika prodding them every step of the way. Bar Paschal Donohue it's difficult to name any competent Fine Gael minister in he time since that crisis. Alas Paschal is off to better things. A decent man who wouldn't sugar coat bad news In the middle of a housing crisis they would not sack a former Minister of State for housing who claimed he forgot that he owned a second house. Themselves and Fianna Fáil are as arrogant and out of touch as the other. Great lads to say 'We spent X on that, loads of money'. 'We won't have those figures yet' talking about Childrens Hospital. Then, for fuel compensation package 'We're giving more than Poland and Spain.' 2 countries with a cheaper cost of living! Spain already reducing fuel excise. Not comparing like with like. No accountability like most of have. No setting targets and meeting them. Insulting the electorate's intelligence.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8515 - 16/04/2026 13:41:29    2666762

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Replying To peiledoir20:  "Where the 1 million dropped in at once on a random Tuesday afternoon catching the government on the hop?

No they were not.

Most capable governments will make estimations and future projections around population growth, required services infrastructure etc.

This government (of which Fine Gael has been a constant since 2011) sadly could not even get something that basic correct."
I don't intend to get dragged into this argument a whole lot, but one consideration is how we're currently hosting some 80,000 Ukranian people who wouldn't be here at all if Putin hadn't decided to play bully big boy.

And having to accommodate them somehow is obviously having a significant knock-on effect on available accommodation for others.

How oh how could Fine Gael in government (or indeed, any other party if they'd been in government) have predicted and foreseen that in advance, and planned accordingly?

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3483 - 16/04/2026 14:16:46    2666776

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "They are proper public provisions. I don't pay LPT or TV license if that helps.

Minimal means little, not none, by the way."
Hmmm. "Minimal means little, not none, by the way."

So what does "Refusal to have anything to do with the State" mean?

Seems in your case, it doesn't mean what most would take it to mean.

Instead it seems to mean "I'll make use of all the services that the State provides, but I'll refuse to pay for them if I have a choice in the matter at all".

Charming.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3483 - 16/04/2026 14:23:06    2666780

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "They are proper public provisions. I don't pay LPT or TV license if that helps.

Minimal means little, not none, by the way."
Free corporation House/apartment?
Medical card?
Free university education whilst living in their Free flat within a stones throw of said 3rd level institution?
Don't want to bother with improving yourself? No problem! We'll still give you money to sit at home and do nothing.

ThePowerhouse (Leitrim) - Posts: 295 - 16/04/2026 14:46:12    2666789

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "I don't intend to get dragged into this argument a whole lot, but one consideration is how we're currently hosting some 80,000 Ukranian people who wouldn't be here at all if Putin hadn't decided to play bully big boy.

And having to accommodate them somehow is obviously having a significant knock-on effect on available accommodation for others.

How oh how could Fine Gael in government (or indeed, any other party if they'd been in government) have predicted and foreseen that in advance, and planned accordingly?"
Before even one Ukranian national set foot in this country there were still 10000 homeless in Ireland.

What excuse will you make for that?

The Childrens Hospital debacle is that down to the Ukranians living here as well?

peiledoir20 (Donegal) - Posts: 1551 - 16/04/2026 14:58:50    2666795

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Replying To ThePowerhouse:  "Free corporation House/apartment?
Medical card?
Free university education whilst living in their Free flat within a stones throw of said 3rd level institution?
Don't want to bother with improving yourself? No problem! We'll still give you money to sit at home and do nothing."
I have none of those free things! Think you have wrong target.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4188 - 16/04/2026 16:11:05    2666811

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Hmmm. "Minimal means little, not none, by the way."

So what does "Refusal to have anything to do with the State" mean?

Seems in your case, it doesn't mean what most would take it to mean.

Instead it seems to mean "I'll make use of all the services that the State provides, but I'll refuse to pay for them if I have a choice in the matter at all".

Charming."
I keep overestimating the intellectual level here.

There is long history of nationalist disengagement from the State. GAA itself is an example.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 4188 - 16/04/2026 16:13:30    2666812

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