National Forum

Croke Park expansion

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To Viking66:  "We won the wooden spoon in 1986, the year before the 1st RWC. We won it again jointly in 88 and 89. We won it jointly in 91, the year of the 2nd RWC. We won it outright in 92. We finished 4th in 93, 94 and 95, the next RWC year, before jointly winning it again in 96 and 97 . We won it outright again in 98, the year before the 4th RWC in 99, in which year we were joint winners of the wooden spoon again. In 2000 Italy joined to make it a 6 Nations competition, and we haven't won it again since.
Basically since the world cup started we have only really been a top rugby country this Millennium. Recently enough."
You're still not answering my point. You say we're now a top rugby nation since 2000. Fine.

But how can we be simultaneously a top rugby nation, regularly at or near the number 1 spot in the world, yet somehow simultaneously be outside the top 6 or 7 teams as you claimed earlier?

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1711 - 07/12/2025 16:58:38    2647345

Link

Replying To CastleBravo:  "You're still not answering my point. You say we're now a top rugby nation since 2000. Fine.

But how can we be simultaneously a top rugby nation, regularly at or near the number 1 spot in the world, yet somehow simultaneously be outside the top 6 or 7 teams as you claimed earlier?"
I never claimed we were outside the top 6 or 7 currently.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17718 - 07/12/2025 17:11:32    2647351

Link

Replying To CTGAA10:  "Killingfields,are all champions cup rugby matches this season behind a paywall??I know RTÉ aren't showing urc matches and tg4 are showing some.."
only on premier sports. no european games on free to air. RTE dont show any rugby beyond internationals and maybe AIL final

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3894 - 07/12/2025 17:23:11    2647352

Link

Replying To alalalalalum:  "The rugby team are a cossetted bunch since birth. They've never been criticised. Look at rte coverage when they lose. One particular pundit praises them to high heaven even when they're beaten off the field like they were with S Africa. Never their fault when they lose"
cossetted bunch? Never criticised. read rugby media and theres plenty of criticism.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3894 - 07/12/2025 17:24:43    2647353

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "Alot of those lads got sent to Boarding School. Hardly cossetted from birth. They likely didnt have the option of running to mammy any time they had a problem like most people had growing up."
Saying a lot of the rugby players went to boarding schools isnt true.

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3894 - 07/12/2025 17:25:20    2647354

Link

Replying To KillingFields:  "Saying a lot of the rugby players went to boarding schools isnt true."
I never thought there was so much hate for Rugby? From Wexford to the USA some of the comments are rediculas.

Scenicparish (Donegal) - Posts: 810 - 07/12/2025 17:39:18    2647358

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "Some of those 10 times we weren't 1 of the 7 or 8 teams. There's a competition in Rugby called the wooden spoon. We have won it more times historically than any other country."
OK you actually said 7 or 8.

But you're still not addressing my point. This entire debate is whether the Ireland team are serial chokers at the World Cup.

You keep emphasising how crap Ireland were pre-2000. Yet the post-2000 Ireland teams perform no better in the World Cup than those Ireland teams you have repeatedly claimed were dire.

Repeatedly failing at the top stage despite being heavily favoured, like Ireland do, is almost the definition of choking.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1711 - 07/12/2025 18:13:01    2647365

Link

Replying To KillingFields:  "cossetted bunch? Never criticised. read rugby media and theres plenty of criticism."
Not on the main television network that's for sure. You hear phrases like 'heroic' and 'reputation enhanced' etc after the South Africa game and them bet out the gate. It was hilarious.

alalalalalum (USA) - Posts: 140 - 07/12/2025 18:18:43    2647366

Link

Replying To CastleBravo:  "OK you actually said 7 or 8.

But you're still not addressing my point. This entire debate is whether the Ireland team are serial chokers at the World Cup.

You keep emphasising how crap Ireland were pre-2000. Yet the post-2000 Ireland teams perform no better in the World Cup than those Ireland teams you have repeatedly claimed were dire.

Repeatedly failing at the top stage despite being heavily favoured, like Ireland do, is almost the definition of choking."
They lost to France in 2003. Well beaten by a better team on the day.
In 2007 they were in a group of death, luck of the draw, and lost to France and Argentina. Never made a QF.
In 2011 we lost to Wales in the QF. Wales won the Grand slam a few months later. They were very good at that time.
2015 we lost to Argentina in the QF. We were missing Paul O'Connell, Johnny Sexton, Peter O'Mahony, Sean O'Brien and Jared Payne injured before the game even started, then Tommy Bowe had to go off injured in the first quarter. To put that into context thats 3 of the best forwards, and our best back and playmaker. Would Kerry have won the AI final this year without the 2 Cliffords, White, Meanwhile and O'Shea? Not very likely. And Donegals challenge wouldve been far better in the closing stages after they got it back to 4 points at the 3/4 mark if Mchugh and Thompson hadn't had to go off injured before that. Injuries to key players often determine results in any sport.
In 2019 we were one of the favourites, ranked 1 in the world, and 3rd or 4th favourites for that year's RWC. Japan hosted the tournament. We lost to them in a very contentious group game. They scored 4 penalties, 3 of which were incorrect offside penalties as determined by World Rugby subsequently. No good to us on the night. Losing to Japan meant we went through to a quarter final against the tournament bookies favourites, the All blacks. We lost.
In 2023 hopes were high again. We beat the Boks in the group stages, before losing a really close game to the all Blacks in the QF. We would actually have got a better draw had we lost to SA, as France had shocked the All Blacks in the group stage.
So no, I don't think we are chokers. There have been 10 world cups, we weren't anywhere near the level of the top teams in the 1st four of them, for example we had never beaten NZ in history since the 19th Century.
Since then we lost quarter finals that we weren't clear pre match favourites for in 2003, 2011, 2019 and 2023. We were ravaged by key injuries to our most important players in the 2015 loss to Argentina, and we never made a QF in 2007.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17718 - 07/12/2025 19:32:23    2647377

Link

Replying To Viking66:  "They lost to France in 2003. Well beaten by a better team on the day.
In 2007 they were in a group of death, luck of the draw, and lost to France and Argentina. Never made a QF.
In 2011 we lost to Wales in the QF. Wales won the Grand slam a few months later. They were very good at that time.
2015 we lost to Argentina in the QF. We were missing Paul O'Connell, Johnny Sexton, Peter O'Mahony, Sean O'Brien and Jared Payne injured before the game even started, then Tommy Bowe had to go off injured in the first quarter. To put that into context thats 3 of the best forwards, and our best back and playmaker. Would Kerry have won the AI final this year without the 2 Cliffords, White, Meanwhile and O'Shea? Not very likely. And Donegals challenge wouldve been far better in the closing stages after they got it back to 4 points at the 3/4 mark if Mchugh and Thompson hadn't had to go off injured before that. Injuries to key players often determine results in any sport.
In 2019 we were one of the favourites, ranked 1 in the world, and 3rd or 4th favourites for that year's RWC. Japan hosted the tournament. We lost to them in a very contentious group game. They scored 4 penalties, 3 of which were incorrect offside penalties as determined by World Rugby subsequently. No good to us on the night. Losing to Japan meant we went through to a quarter final against the tournament bookies favourites, the All blacks. We lost.
In 2023 hopes were high again. We beat the Boks in the group stages, before losing a really close game to the all Blacks in the QF. We would actually have got a better draw had we lost to SA, as France had shocked the All Blacks in the group stage.
So no, I don't think we are chokers. There have been 10 world cups, we weren't anywhere near the level of the top teams in the 1st four of them, for example we had never beaten NZ in history since the 19th Century.
Since then we lost quarter finals that we weren't clear pre match favourites for in 2003, 2011, 2019 and 2023. We were ravaged by key injuries to our most important players in the 2015 loss to Argentina, and we never made a QF in 2007."
We have underperformed in World Cups, no matter what way you dress it up. You've been a bit selective there too. In 2007, it wasn't just that we were unlucky to be in a group of death. We barely beat Namibia and Georgia. We were very lucky to beat the latter. France and Argentina then beat us easily. We were awful in that tournament.
In 2011, we were favourites against Wales but again played poorly when it mattered most. 2015, we did lost a lot of players after the France game, but again we made a terrible start against Argentina in the quarter final and we're chasing the game from then. They pulled away comfortably in the end.
You say the loss to Japan in2019 was contentious, but the truth is we were outplayed over the course of the game. We got a good start this time, but ran out of ideas fairly soon and couldn't deal with their high energy and quick passing game. New Zealand then hockeyed us.
2023 was out best World Cup by far. We performed in ever single game and the NZ game could have gone either way. That's one where the draw really did mess with us. The best 4 teams in the world were all on the same side.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2659 - 07/12/2025 20:42:29    2647388

Link

Replying To WanPintWin:  "We have underperformed in World Cups, no matter what way you dress it up. You've been a bit selective there too. In 2007, it wasn't just that we were unlucky to be in a group of death. We barely beat Namibia and Georgia. We were very lucky to beat the latter. France and Argentina then beat us easily. We were awful in that tournament.
In 2011, we were favourites against Wales but again played poorly when it mattered most. 2015, we did lost a lot of players after the France game, but again we made a terrible start against Argentina in the quarter final and we're chasing the game from then. They pulled away comfortably in the end.
You say the loss to Japan in2019 was contentious, but the truth is we were outplayed over the course of the game. We got a good start this time, but ran out of ideas fairly soon and couldn't deal with their high energy and quick passing game. New Zealand then hockeyed us.
2023 was out best World Cup by far. We performed in ever single game and the NZ game could have gone either way. That's one where the draw really did mess with us. The best 4 teams in the world were all on the same side."
The All Blacks were better than us in 2023. Like South Africa they know how to win big games. They were at their ease camped on their line when we couldn't cross after 37 phases. I think the scoreline didn't tell the full story . They remained calm and kept us out, experience of grinding out big games stood to them and dealing well with the pressure of being one of the favourites. We need to physically and mentally peak for World Cups.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8384 - 07/12/2025 23:00:04    2647409

Link

Replying To GreenandRed:  "The All Blacks were better than us in 2023. Like South Africa they know how to win big games. They were at their ease camped on their line when we couldn't cross after 37 phases. I think the scoreline didn't tell the full story . They remained calm and kept us out, experience of grinding out big games stood to them and dealing well with the pressure of being one of the favourites. We need to physically and mentally peak for World Cups."
Themselves and South Africa are the Kerry and Dublin of Football. Steeped in winning big games since the 19th Century. Any other country probably has to be 8 or 10 points better than them to win by 1.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17718 - 08/12/2025 10:52:22    2647442

Link

Replying To GreenandRed:  "The All Blacks were better than us in 2023. Like South Africa they know how to win big games. They were at their ease camped on their line when we couldn't cross after 37 phases. I think the scoreline didn't tell the full story . They remained calm and kept us out, experience of grinding out big games stood to them and dealing well with the pressure of being one of the favourites. We need to physically and mentally peak for World Cups."
They were better than us, but the gap wasn't much. Barrett's leg getting under the ball was the difference between us taking the lead late in the game. Would NZ have gotten another score to go ahead? Very possibly, but it was a close game.
We weren't camped on their line for 37 phases at the end. We worked the ball up from our own line in 37 phases, and never got to within 5m of their line. The legs were well and truly gone at that stage and we could have been there for another 30 phases without scoring.
That doesn't render the rest of the game obsolete though. It was a tight game and NZ were deserving winners. My point is, I believe we were in the top 4 teams in that tournament, as were France. However, all 4 were on the same side. It's the World Cup this century where I feel we did perform at a high level throughout.
The same isn't true for the rest, where we definitely underperformed.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2659 - 08/12/2025 11:11:28    2647447

Link

NZ and S Africa can celebrate world cup titles all they want, they'll never be able to celebrate like James Lowe did when he kicked the ball out of play against NZ in a friendly when Ireland were being beaten by 20pts. That is real joy.

alalalalalum (USA) - Posts: 140 - 08/12/2025 11:41:07    2647453

Link

Replying To alalalalalum:  "NZ and S Africa can celebrate world cup titles all they want, they'll never be able to celebrate like James Lowe did when he kicked the ball out of play against NZ in a friendly when Ireland were being beaten by 20pts. That is real joy."
For a lad who doesn't support the team they seem to be living rent free in your head :-D

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17718 - 08/12/2025 12:54:43    2647469

Link