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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "So British control of part of Ireland was not okay in 1969 but okay now?

Same with abortion? Its either wrong or it is not. Fact that itvwas approved in referendum is neither here nor there.

Most people are sheep. Took 1916 to wake them up for a few years. All back nodding away since."
The issue in 1969 was civil rights, you could say that issue has been addressed now, it shouldn't have taken a war to get those civil rights, they say the 1998 GFA was Sunningdale for slow learners.
The violence in 1969 and before was introduced by the loyalists who didn't want to lose the gerrymandered control they had enjoyed for 50 years, the IRA campaign started as a response to first defend catholic from sectarian gangs and we all know how it spiralled.
Seems to be a pattern in Irish history of over reaction from the British side that always backfires on them, if they hadn't executed the 1916 leaders we'd probably still be under British control in the 26 counties too or be operating 2 devolved Govs on this island both controlled from London.
Bloody Sunday was another, all it done apart from murder innocent people demanding their rights was send a generation to war.
I agree SF are total hypocrites, they built their electoral success of the deaths of the hunger strikers, suited them to have 10 martyrs, theirs sheep on every side.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3539 - 31/10/2025 13:44:17    2642383

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Replying To yew_tree:  "What are you suggesting another revolution?"
I think that's inevitable to be honest.

Have we achieved our ideals socially or morally?

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4007 - 31/10/2025 13:45:46    2642384

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Replying To FullOfPorter:  "It's a sign of how much we are immersed in a system of the right when SF and SDs are considered hard left.

Hard left would want a complete overthrow of the political and economic system, all industry would be nationalised, severe restrictions placed on private property (if not abolished), the state takes over provision of all services, workers councils set up with a view to replacing the current political system. You are talking full on communism.

It doesn't really matter what Ogra SF have on t shirts, if you read SF policy documents along with SDs and Labour, they are all left of centre in the mould of most social democratic parties across Europe.

PBP are left wing but not radical revolutionaries and will try and affect change from within the current political and economic system aiming for a greater role of the state in the economy and more redistribution of wealth.

FF FG are centre right. Profit, wealth accumulation, big business and individualism take priority under their policies. Ireland incorporated if you will."
Anyone that considers SF hard left is incorrect, you've made that point yourself

Cumann1 (Mayo) - Posts: 118 - 31/10/2025 13:58:37    2642389

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Replying To Seanfan:  "I was responding to Porter who listed SF as Left."
I was responding to fullofporter, for some reason it was put up under your post

Cumann1 (Mayo) - Posts: 118 - 31/10/2025 14:00:16    2642392

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Replying To Seanfan:  "??????"
When this debate on left, right and centre, interesting as it is, dies down a bit I'll try and raise the LPT issue again.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3292 - 01/11/2025 10:49:09    2642467

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Replying To supersub15:  "When this debate on left, right and centre, interesting as it is, dies down a bit I'll try and raise the LPT issue again."
I don't pay it but they take it from wages. Also don't pay TV license or dog license.

This state is inimical to interests of nation so I take any opportunity that does not impinge on fellow citizens to express my non-compliance.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3802 - 01/11/2025 11:36:54    2642473

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "I don't pay it but they take it from wages. Also don't pay TV license or dog license.

This state is inimical to interests of nation so I take any opportunity that does not impinge on fellow citizens to express my non-compliance."
Something similar myself, however Revenue tells me now that I have until Nov.7th to revalue my house or they will do it for me. I have always valued it within the allowed parameters..it now seems as if the goalposts are being moved.
It now appears as if the LPT is being used to finance other goverment projects.
That's for starters.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3292 - 01/11/2025 12:43:27    2642488

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Replying To Tirchonaill1:  "The issue in 1969 was civil rights, you could say that issue has been addressed now, it shouldn't have taken a war to get those civil rights, they say the 1998 GFA was Sunningdale for slow learners.
The violence in 1969 and before was introduced by the loyalists who didn't want to lose the gerrymandered control they had enjoyed for 50 years, the IRA campaign started as a response to first defend catholic from sectarian gangs and we all know how it spiralled.
Seems to be a pattern in Irish history of over reaction from the British side that always backfires on them, if they hadn't executed the 1916 leaders we'd probably still be under British control in the 26 counties too or be operating 2 devolved Govs on this island both controlled from London.
Bloody Sunday was another, all it done apart from murder innocent people demanding their rights was send a generation to war.
I agree SF are total hypocrites, they built their electoral success of the deaths of the hunger strikers, suited them to have 10 martyrs, theirs sheep on every side."
I think that the Sdlp and Fine Gael are just middle class types whining about the Hunger strikers.

galwayford (Galway) - Posts: 2686 - 01/11/2025 15:12:14    2642514

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "I think that's inevitable to be honest.

Have we achieved our ideals socially or morally?"
I don't agree that is inevitable or even likely.

The most obvious problem is getting the people of Ireland to agree to a joint set of social or moral ideals, people's opinions tend to differ greatly depending on the subject.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1512 - 04/11/2025 12:56:05    2642970

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Replying To Commodore:  "I don't agree that is inevitable or even likely.

The most obvious problem is getting the people of Ireland to agree to a joint set of social or moral ideals, people's opinions tend to differ greatly depending on the subject."
Industrial estates don't have "social or moral ideals." Men of '16 would have been better off heading to Bo Derroll's for an early pint that Easter Monday.

BarneyGrant (Dublin) - Posts: 3802 - 04/11/2025 14:09:12    2642984

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Industrial estates don't have "social or moral ideals." Men of '16 would have been better off heading to Bo Derroll's for an early pint that Easter Monday."
The "men of 16" wouldn't want people having jobs?

Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 209 - 04/11/2025 16:22:48    2643020

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Industrial estates don't have "social or moral ideals." Men of '16 would have been better off heading to Bo Derroll's for an early pint that Easter Monday."
For sure Barney, they'd have been better off staying in their beds on easter Monday. just look at what and who they fought and died for.

Tirchonaill1 (Donegal) - Posts: 3539 - 04/11/2025 18:04:25    2643037

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Replying To Seanfan:  "The "men of 16" wouldn't want people having jobs?"
I'd wager a lot of those wearing Easter Lilies certainly don't have jobs.

Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2564 - 05/11/2025 00:02:21    2643082

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Replying To BarneyGrant:  "Industrial estates don't have "social or moral ideals." Men of '16 would have been better off heading to Bo Derroll's for an early pint that Easter Monday."
What does that even mean? Ideals don't pay the mortgage. Some people don't live in reality.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11812 - 05/11/2025 06:57:39    2643088

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Replying To yew_tree:  "What does that even mean? Ideals don't pay the mortgage. Some people don't live in reality."
Ah yes, this isn't the first time you've asserted that right and wrong are for sale.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4007 - 05/11/2025 09:27:56    2643095

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "Ah yes, this isn't the first time you've asserted that right and wrong are for sale."
If I go round to Dunnes, fill a trolley and hand in a copy of the Proclamation at the till........

Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 209 - 05/11/2025 11:27:24    2643114

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Replying To yew_tree:  "What does that even mean? Ideals don't pay the mortgage. Some people don't live in reality."
Do you stand for the National anthem?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17391 - 05/11/2025 14:19:13    2643147

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Replying To Seanfan:  "If I go round to Dunnes, fill a trolley and hand in a copy of the Proclamation at the till........"
You know that isn't comparative.

You can however go around Dunnes and try to make responsible purchasing decisions, or you can look out for number one and fund atrocities.

People have an obligation to do the right thing, sometimes that requires sacrifice.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4007 - 05/11/2025 14:24:53    2643151

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Replying To Doylerwex:  "You know that isn't comparative.

You can however go around Dunnes and try to make responsible purchasing decisions, or you can look out for number one and fund atrocities.

People have an obligation to do the right thing, sometimes that requires sacrifice."
We've gone from 1916 leaders should have stayed at home Easter Monday to funding atrocities.......
Can someone explain what's the point here.....?

Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 209 - 05/11/2025 15:35:26    2643163

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Replying To Seanfan:  "We've gone from 1916 leaders should have stayed at home Easter Monday to funding atrocities.......
Can someone explain what's the point here.....?"
My point has nothing to do with 1916 leaders. It's to do with morality.

I responded to a comment that said "ideals don't pay the mortgage".

That type of attitude isn't a million miles away from your average axis soldier in the 30s/40s.

Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4007 - 05/11/2025 15:49:45    2643166

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