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Picture the scenario: Dublin, relegated to Division 2 this year, win the All-Ireland this year. But they have a stinker of a league in 2027 and get relegated (happens to good teams more often than you'd think, e.g. Westmeath 2017 and Derry 2018 down to Division 4, Cork 2019 down to Division 3, Dublin 2021 down to Division 2) and don't make the Leinster final. Suddenly they find themselves out of the league places to qualify for the Sam Maguire Cup competition even though they're defending champions! Even the Tailteann Cup winners get in but not them. Think it needs a quick fix in Congress.
Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1301 - 14/05/2026 14:05:06
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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma: "Picture the scenario: Dublin, relegated to Division 2 this year, win the All-Ireland this year. But they have a stinker of a league in 2027 and get relegated (happens to good teams more often than you'd think, e.g. Westmeath 2017 and Derry 2018 down to Division 4, Cork 2019 down to Division 3, Dublin 2021 down to Division 2) and don't make the Leinster final. Suddenly they find themselves out of the league places to qualify for the Sam Maguire Cup competition even though they're defending champions! Even the Tailteann Cup winners get in but not them. Think it needs a quick fix in Congress." I think Congress have more important issues then worrying about a scenario with 100000/1 odds of happening now in fairness.
mickosarmy (Wicklow) - Posts: 6 - 14/05/2026 15:03:32
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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma: "Picture the scenario: Dublin, relegated to Division 2 this year, win the All-Ireland this year. But they have a stinker of a league in 2027 and get relegated (happens to good teams more often than you'd think, e.g. Westmeath 2017 and Derry 2018 down to Division 4, Cork 2019 down to Division 3, Dublin 2021 down to Division 2) and don't make the Leinster final. Suddenly they find themselves out of the league places to qualify for the Sam Maguire Cup competition even though they're defending champions! Even the Tailteann Cup winners get in but not them. Think it needs a quick fix in Congress." You are correct.. in theory it could happen.. but id say there is a less than 0.1% chance. Has it ever happened that the all Ireland champions have been relegated to division 3 in the year immediately following them winning Sam?
Would be no harm to revisit the provisions at congress if it were to put your mind at ease.
indaknownow (Offaly) - Posts: 121 - 14/05/2026 15:09:18
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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma: "Picture the scenario: Dublin, relegated to Division 2 this year, win the All-Ireland this year. But they have a stinker of a league in 2027 and get relegated (happens to good teams more often than you'd think, e.g. Westmeath 2017 and Derry 2018 down to Division 4, Cork 2019 down to Division 3, Dublin 2021 down to Division 2) and don't make the Leinster final. Suddenly they find themselves out of the league places to qualify for the Sam Maguire Cup competition even though they're defending champions! Even the Tailteann Cup winners get in but not them. Think it needs a quick fix in Congress." Yeah, you're correct that it could actually happen, even though chances of it actually happening are miniscule.
Still, there's a process there to put it right, if it means that much to you. Put in a motion for your club to send to County Convention at the end of the year, for them to send up along the line to Congress.
All such things have to come from somewhere and one of the great things about the GAA is that every single member has the power to kickstart a change where it's needed, instead of waiting for "the suits up above" to think of it or do it.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3648 - 14/05/2026 17:34:10
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Replying To Tacaí Liatroma: "Picture the scenario: Dublin, relegated to Division 2 this year, win the All-Ireland this year. But they have a stinker of a league in 2027 and get relegated (happens to good teams more often than you'd think, e.g. Westmeath 2017 and Derry 2018 down to Division 4, Cork 2019 down to Division 3, Dublin 2021 down to Division 2) and don't make the Leinster final. Suddenly they find themselves out of the league places to qualify for the Sam Maguire Cup competition even though they're defending champions! Even the Tailteann Cup winners get in but not them. Think it needs a quick fix in Congress." Probably happen to Leitrim.
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1063 - 14/05/2026 17:42:57
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Replying To indaknownow: "You are correct.. in theory it could happen.. but id say there is a less than 0.1% chance. Has it ever happened that the all Ireland champions have been relegated to division 3 in the year immediately following them winning Sam?
Would be no harm to revisit the provisions at congress if it were to put your mind at ease." Simple solution.
Qualifiers for Sam -
-Seeded - AI and TC Champions from last year, Provincial Champions from this year.
-Unseeded - Provincial runners up and NFL placings to make 16.
Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 568 - 14/05/2026 17:47:31
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The new Football Championship setup really seems to be stimulating people's imaginations in making up unlikely scenarios.
Since I've too much time on my hands I actually started looking through the records to see if I could find a time when this would ever have come into play, and since the league began in 1925-26 there have been 0 occasions where the reigning All Ireland champion both failed to make their provincial final and weren't among the top 15 teams in the league.
There's a chance Cork finished low in the 1945-46 league as AI champs, but the league was geographically split instead of by division, and I can't find any finished table so it's impossible to tell.
Next most likely suspect is 1992, when Down lost the Ulster Semi Final, and only finished 5th in their group in a wacky 3 group 18 team Div. 1. Might have still made Sam though.
So in 100 years of NFL play, there's no clear cut cases of this "anomaly" happening. And even less chance today when teams know what's at stake.
CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1731 - 14/05/2026 19:40:06
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Replying To Seanfan: "Simple solution.
Qualifiers for Sam -
-Seeded - AI and TC Champions from last year, Provincial Champions from this year.
-Unseeded - Provincial runners up and NFL placings to make 16." It would be a relatively simple solution all right, to say that the Sam Maguire competition shall feature the reigning Sam Maguire champions, the reigning Tailteann Cup champions, the eight provincial finalists, and whatever number of NFL placings to bring it up to 16.
Your seeding wouldn't work, though. Six seeded teams, and ten unseeded. And possibly only five or even as few as four seeded teams, if either or both the Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cup winners of one year went on to win their province the following year.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3648 - 14/05/2026 22:08:53
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Replying To Pikeman96: "It would be a relatively simple solution all right, to say that the Sam Maguire competition shall feature the reigning Sam Maguire champions, the reigning Tailteann Cup champions, the eight provincial finalists, and whatever number of NFL placings to bring it up to 16.
Your seeding wouldn't work, though. Six seeded teams, and ten unseeded. And possibly only five or even as few as four seeded teams, if either or both the Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cup winners of one year went on to win their province the following year." The principle is correct though
4 provincial winners, All Ireland champions, League Div 1 finalists and Tailteann cup winners. If a county has multiple qualifications (i.e Kerry), the move down the Div 1 table
This year
Kerry
Armagh/Monaghan
Dublin/Westmeath
Roscommon
Donegal
Kildare
Mayo
Galway
Having Donegal, Galway, Mayo and Kildare seeded doesn't rely on handy draws.
Under the current system
Next year could easily see Clare and Leitrim getting seeded in the All Ireland and 2 div 2 teams excluded from the championship altogether.
tirawleybaron (Mayo) - Posts: 1823 - 15/05/2026 09:11:29
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Replying To CastleBravo: "The new Football Championship setup really seems to be stimulating people's imaginations in making up unlikely scenarios.
Since I've too much time on my hands I actually started looking through the records to see if I could find a time when this would ever have come into play, and since the league began in 1925-26 there have been 0 occasions where the reigning All Ireland champion both failed to make their provincial final and weren't among the top 15 teams in the league.
There's a chance Cork finished low in the 1945-46 league as AI champs, but the league was geographically split instead of by division, and I can't find any finished table so it's impossible to tell.
Next most likely suspect is 1992, when Down lost the Ulster Semi Final, and only finished 5th in their group in a wacky 3 group 18 team Div. 1. Might have still made Sam though.
So in 100 years of NFL play, there's no clear cut cases of this "anomaly" happening. And even less chance today when teams know what's at stake." Galway were defending champions in 1967, lost in the Connacht semifinal to Mayo, and were only in div3 in the 67/68 league, but I think the League was split geographically, and Galway did make the knockouts, so were on that basis top 15.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19684 - 15/05/2026 09:45:14
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Replying To Viking66: " Replying To CastleBravo: "The new Football Championship setup really seems to be stimulating people's imaginations in making up unlikely scenarios.
Since I've too much time on my hands I actually started looking through the records to see if I could find a time when this would ever have come into play, and since the league began in 1925-26 there have been 0 occasions where the reigning All Ireland champion both failed to make their provincial final <b>and </b> weren't among the top 15 teams in the league.
There's a chance Cork finished low in the 1945-46 league as AI champs, but the league was geographically split instead of by division, and I can't find any finished table so it's impossible to tell.
Next most likely suspect is 1992, when Down lost the Ulster Semi Final, and only finished 5th in their group in a wacky 3 group 18 team Div. 1. Might have still made Sam though.
So in 100 years of NFL play, there's no clear cut cases of this "anomaly" happening. And even less chance today when teams know what's at stake."</div>Galway were defending champions in 1967, lost in the Connacht semifinal to Mayo, and were only in div3 in the 67/68 league, but I think the League was split geographically, and Galway did make the knockouts, so were on that basis top 15." Yes it was difficult to map the modern Sam Maguire/Tailteann Cup setup onto the many different NFL setups that were never designed to accomodate it. For my own purposes I took it that if a lower division team made it to the knockout stages they leapfrogged the teams that didn't even if those teams were in higher divisions. Continuing this pointless historical conjecture, 1992 was an interesting year since Clare qualified through the league as Div 2. champs and through the championship from their famous Munster win. If we call the SFC B the equivalent of today's Tailteann Cup, Clare actually qualified 3 times as they'd won that in 1991.
CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1731 - 15/05/2026 10:38:32
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I'd also see it as an anomaly that a semi-finalist this year could suffer the same fate (possibly more likely). Lets take Monaghan into your example being beaten by Dublin in this year's semi final by a point or two.
In next year's league they finish 5th after defeats to Dublin. Tyrone, Down and Derry. They could also miss out on Sam Maguire completion due to say Westmeath and Sligo getting to provincial finals.
We need to see championship based promotion and relegation and stop these potential anomalies.
brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 499 - 15/05/2026 13:13:19
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Replying To brianb: "I'd also see it as an anomaly that a semi-finalist this year could suffer the same fate (possibly more likely). Lets take Monaghan into your example being beaten by Dublin in this year's semi final by a point or two.
In next year's league they finish 5th after defeats to Dublin. Tyrone, Down and Derry. They could also miss out on Sam Maguire completion due to say Westmeath and Sligo getting to provincial finals.
We need to see championship based promotion and relegation and stop these potential anomalies." I wouldn't actually see that as a big deal. Outside of World Cup Rugby and its relatively small number of top tier nations, In can't think of an example where just reaching the semi-finals of one competition automatically guarantees you entry into the next. But it's normal to give competition winners a guaranteed chance of defending their crown all right.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3648 - 15/05/2026 13:35:38
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Replying To brianb: "I'd also see it as an anomaly that a semi-finalist this year could suffer the same fate (possibly more likely). Lets take Monaghan into your example being beaten by Dublin in this year's semi final by a point or two.
In next year's league they finish 5th after defeats to Dublin. Tyrone, Down and Derry. They could also miss out on Sam Maguire completion due to say Westmeath and Sligo getting to provincial finals.
We need to see championship based promotion and relegation and stop these potential anomalies." Yes, I agree.
Maybe, prior Sam QF 8 & TC Champ (9 teams);
plus current Prov Champs (0-4 more);
plus league top-up to Sam 16 (hosted by prior QF 8).
omahant (USA) - Posts: 3424 - 15/05/2026 13:58:26
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Replying To Pikeman96: "I wouldn't actually see that as a big deal. Outside of World Cup Rugby and its relatively small number of top tier nations, In can't think of an example where just reaching the semi-finals of one competition automatically guarantees you entry into the next. But it's normal to give competition winners a guaranteed chance of defending their crown all right." I do see what you mean - even the winners of the world cup this year will have to qualify in 2030.
But isn't that what we do in every other GAA tournament in the country? The Senior / Intermediate / Junior set-up with a single team going up/down between the levels. The club semi-finalists in every county will stay senior this year - but not necessarily the county semi-finalists. Its certainly an anomaly.
brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 499 - 15/05/2026 14:04:44
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Replying To brianb: "I do see what you mean - even the winners of the world cup this year will have to qualify in 2030.
But isn't that what we do in every other GAA tournament in the country? The Senior / Intermediate / Junior set-up with a single team going up/down between the levels. The club semi-finalists in every county will stay senior this year - but not necessarily the county semi-finalists. Its certainly an anomaly." That's a fair point as well. But there's a bit of a difference, which I hope I'll explain properly -
Take a 2026 senior club championship, for example. Being able to also compete in the '27 senior championship wouldn't be a prize for reaching semi-finals of this year's championship. Instead, you earn it by virtue of avoiding the relegation process for the 2027 process (e.g. coming bottom of your group in 2026 and then losing out in relegation playoffs).
The "relegation process" for the 2027 Sam Maguire Cup won't actually happen until 2027, and will be determined by the League placings and provincial championships of 2027. How you fare in the Sam Maguire Cup this year has absolutely no impact on whether or not you'll be able to compete in it next year. As we've discussed, even the winners wouldn't be absolutely guaranteed a place!
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3648 - 15/05/2026 16:42:52
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Replying To Viking66: " Replying To CastleBravo: "The new Football Championship setup really seems to be stimulating people's imaginations in making up unlikely scenarios.
Since I've too much time on my hands I actually started looking through the records to see if I could find a time when this would ever have come into play, and since the league began in 1925-26 there have been 0 occasions where the reigning All Ireland champion both failed to make their provincial final <b>and </b> weren't among the top 15 teams in the league.
There's a chance Cork finished low in the 1945-46 league as AI champs, but the league was geographically split instead of by division, and I can't find any finished table so it's impossible to tell.
Next most likely suspect is 1992, when Down lost the Ulster Semi Final, and only finished 5th in their group in a wacky 3 group 18 team Div. 1. Might have still made Sam though.
So in 100 years of NFL play, there's no clear cut cases of this "anomaly" happening. And even less chance today when teams know what's at stake."</div>Galway were defending champions in 1967, lost in the Connacht semifinal to Mayo, and were only in div3 in the 67/68 league, but I think the League was split geographically, and Galway did make the knockouts, so were on that basis top 15." They were National League Champions in 66/67, so how far down could they have been at the end of the next League campaign? Likely winning the 66/67 Home League Final cost them the game with Mayo as they had just retuned from a 2 game League Final against New York in the Big Apple. Always thought that team should have done the four in a row All Irelands.
ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1063 - 15/05/2026 17:06:03
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Replying To CastleBravo: "The new Football Championship setup really seems to be stimulating people's imaginations in making up unlikely scenarios.
Since I've too much time on my hands I actually started looking through the records to see if I could find a time when this would ever have come into play, and since the league began in 1925-26 there have been 0 occasions where the reigning All Ireland champion both failed to make their provincial final and weren't among the top 15 teams in the league.
There's a chance Cork finished low in the 1945-46 league as AI champs, but the league was geographically split instead of by division, and I can't find any finished table so it's impossible to tell.
Next most likely suspect is 1992, when Down lost the Ulster Semi Final, and only finished 5th in their group in a wacky 3 group 18 team Div. 1. Might have still made Sam though.
So in 100 years of NFL play, there's no clear cut cases of this "anomaly" happening. And even less chance today when teams know what's at stake." One of the things I like about this post is that, even though the previous posters sarcastically suggested that this was some urgent matter for me that was keeping me awake at night, someone actually went out and researched it a little. So kudos to you. But my point was that it's a quick, harmless fix that can come from anyone, and I'm pretty sure that a few years ago someone in GAA administration cobbled together a few motions where there technicalities that needed tidying up, and they all got voted in almost unanimously in the space of a few minutes. So something like this has happened before.
Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1301 - 17/05/2026 23:07:40
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Replying To ORIELMAN85: "Probably happen to Leitrim." You'll be the toast of our county when I go back and tell them how much faith you have that we'll win the All-Ireland. Iron your good shirt.
Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1301 - 17/05/2026 23:09:17
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Replying To Viking66: " Replying To CastleBravo: "The new Football Championship setup really seems to be stimulating people's imaginations in making up unlikely scenarios.
Since I've too much time on my hands I actually started looking through the records to see if I could find a time when this would ever have come into play, and since the league began in 1925-26 there have been 0 occasions where the reigning All Ireland champion both failed to make their provincial final <b>and </b> weren't among the top 15 teams in the league.
There's a chance Cork finished low in the 1945-46 league as AI champs, but the league was geographically split instead of by division, and I can't find any finished table so it's impossible to tell.
Next most likely suspect is 1992, when Down lost the Ulster Semi Final, and only finished 5th in their group in a wacky 3 group 18 team Div. 1. Might have still made Sam though.
So in 100 years of NFL play, there's no clear cut cases of this "anomaly" happening. And even less chance today when teams know what's at stake."</div>Galway were defending champions in 1967, lost in the Connacht semifinal to Mayo, and were only in div3 in the 67/68 league, but I think the League was split geographically, and Galway did make the knockouts, so were on that basis top 15." I think you're right, the 3 in Division 3 was just a meaningless number with nothing to do with how good the teams were, and they were just split geographically. Leitrim and Longford were in Division 2 and Kerry and Cork were in Division 3. But also Galway won their three group games and also the Div 3 semifinal and final to win Div 3, before losing to eventual winners Down in the overall semi-final.
Tacaí Liatroma (Leitrim) - Posts: 1301 - 17/05/2026 23:15:07
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