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Replying To Pikeman96: "@Viking66 - I still maintain that it's lazy analysis because it ignores the fact that results weren't much different for several earlier U21 teams, whose players had indeed been allowed to play at adult grades while they were still minors. And that those earlier teams were often "bullied" en route to the defeats they suffered too." Last 3 years - beaten in two Q finals and a semi funal. Previous 3 years beaten in 2 finals and lost to Kildare.
Which set of results are better? Id imagine the ones where beat Kk and lost to them by a point. But you'll find something else to suggest different.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 1006 - 21/05/2026 15:59:17
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Replying To StoreysTash: "Probably the same amount as you.
And if you have so many, tell us who you are then. Otherwise "random anonymous man on internet claims...."" Over the last 15 years? There are plenty on the forum know who I am.
countyman2022 (Wexford) - Posts: 1006 - 21/05/2026 16:00:36
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@Viking66 - right, I'll try sum this up as fairly as I can.
Whether we lost those games in earlier years through underdeveloped S&C, or lost them through being "bullied", fact remains that patterns of results over a few years still aren't much different whether or not the lads were allowed to play adult and Minor at the same time.
If improved S&C in the past few years is to make such a difference, then this year's Minors are the ones who stand to benefit most from it by the time they hit 20, and there's a chance that it might have made the required difference by itself. Not necessarily the case that things required improved S&C and allowing to play both Minor & adult.
Your claims about 2020 are strange. Fully agree it was an odd year all round. But you seem to have forgotten that there were indeed club championships played that year, at all levels from adult down to U13 (we were still operating "odd" ages at the time).
So clearly not the case that the lads who played U21 v Dublin in December 2020 "had no competitive games at all in over a year", or that the ones who lost to Kildare in 2021 "didn't play adult championship the previous year as there was no adult championship".
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3689 - 21/05/2026 16:01:28
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Replying To Pikeman96: "@Viking66 - I still maintain that it's lazy analysis because it ignores the fact that results weren't much different for several earlier U21 teams, whose players had indeed been allowed to play at adult grades while they were still minors. And that those earlier teams were often "bullied" en route to the defeats they suffered too." We are trying to come up with ideas to make things better.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19742 - 21/05/2026 17:06:43
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Replying To Pikeman96: "@Viking66 - right, I'll try sum this up as fairly as I can.
Whether we lost those games in earlier years through underdeveloped S&C, or lost them through being "bullied", fact remains that patterns of results over a few years still aren't much different whether or not the lads were allowed to play adult and Minor at the same time.
If improved S&C in the past few years is to make such a difference, then this year's Minors are the ones who stand to benefit most from it by the time they hit 20, and there's a chance that it might have made the required difference by itself. Not necessarily the case that things required improved S&C and allowing to play both Minor & adult.
Your claims about 2020 are strange. Fully agree it was an odd year all round. But you seem to have forgotten that there were indeed club championships played that year, at all levels from adult down to U13 (we were still operating "odd" ages at the time).
So clearly not the case that the lads who played U21 v Dublin in December 2020 "had no competitive games at all in over a year", or that the ones who lost to Kildare in 2021 "didn't play adult championship the previous year as there was no adult championship"." Believe it or not I had forgotten they were in late 2020, got them confused with 2021!
Up or down Dublin were good in 2020, they reached the AI final. And they had played 2 games before we even played them in our first game.
2021 again we got caught cold in our 1st day out.
I get that fixture makers are inconvenienced by the change, but I don't get how you think that playing an extra year, or in some cases a year at all, of club adult hurling wouldn't be beneficial to our u20 teams.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 19742 - 21/05/2026 17:43:11
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Replying To btwex90: "Bit ironic that coming from a Harriers man" What's that supposed to mean?
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 4522 - 21/05/2026 17:53:48
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@countyman2022 - And those previous three years you refer to (beaten in two finals, and lost to Kildare) are just further proof of my point.
We have a pattern of two or three years of doing poorly at U20/U21, followed by two or three years of doing relatively well, whether or not those players those players were allowed to play adult hurling while still Minors.
Looking at it from a logical testing point of view, the only real way you could say for sure that not being allowed to play adult made a real, discernible, lasting difference would have been if the rule was left that way, and we looked at subsequent U20 results for the next three to five years. But rule has been changed, that won't happen, and we'll never know.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3689 - 21/05/2026 18:19:11
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@viking66 - I've never actually said or suggested that starting to play adult hurling a year earlier might not be a benefit to players, and a benefit we might see pay off for our county U20 teams.
But I think it'd be only a very small factor in the overall scheme of things, compared to other things like having effective management teams in place, good coaching, good gameplans, good S&C, and so on. It seems others would have you believe it's the major thing missing that will have a massive effect all by itself.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3689 - 21/05/2026 22:29:12
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Bit of change to try keep lads playing longer run championships for all ages ie 10 11 12 13 15 15 16 17 18 . No championship for 10s but some competition for u11
Run 10 12 14 16 18 first April to end June /mid July then mid July to Oct ages 11 13 15 17 . Then 18s year olds can play adult and u20 after adult over .
Would take a bit of organising and more thought .
Problems might be exams county minor etc but bit theres and will theres a way
Buy to keep lads playing they need to be up.to the age at some time during the year . Where they are the stronger boys and less likely to be intimated by older boys and give up..
Shortened championship bit like development leagues and the way minor snd 16s run at present. But you get to play 2 championships in 1 year.
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 594 - 21/05/2026 22:44:38
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Replying To StoreysTash: "I for once agree countyman has a point re being allowed to play adult. Who knows if it will help our results but you are playing against a man from Galway or wherever with a year of adult hurling behind him, conditioned to the rough and tumble of adult hurling.
Much of the rest is pure bluster." People who say its going to make a difference imo are false prophets. If the lad is huring county when he is 25 that year will made zero difference to his development, I don't see the upside for the downside it will cause for so many young players who remember will never play county but they will be shoved into club teams to make up the numbers and who may never play again as a result. Everyone wants to change a rule for less than 5% of the players.
zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2208 - 22/05/2026 07:55:59
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Replying To Formertownie: "Bit of change to try keep lads playing longer run championships for all ages ie 10 11 12 13 15 15 16 17 18 . No championship for 10s but some competition for u11
Run 10 12 14 16 18 first April to end June /mid July then mid July to Oct ages 11 13 15 17 . Then 18s year olds can play adult and u20 after adult over .
Would take a bit of organising and more thought .
Problems might be exams county minor etc but bit theres and will theres a way
Buy to keep lads playing they need to be up.to the age at some time during the year . Where they are the stronger boys and less likely to be intimated by older boys and give up..
Shortened championship bit like development leagues and the way minor snd 16s run at present. But you get to play 2 championships in 1 year." That's actually a very interesting idea, and deserves further consideration.
Shorter championships (and particularly the first one - says groups of four, with just two going through) - could bring more of the "cut-throat" and "consequences" that another poster was looking for but had no ideas of his own. And if you do get knocked out early, well, there'll be more matches and a fresh start later in the year anyway.
Only obvious and immediate flaw is that by Rule, you can't run an official competition for U11, but that's only a minor point in the overall scheme of things. Another consideration is that you'd need twice as many sets of medals that somebody somewhere would have to pay for, but that's only a minor point too.
So, again - a really good idea, and worth further thought.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3689 - 22/05/2026 10:57:47
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Replying To Formertownie: "Bit of change to try keep lads playing longer run championships for all ages ie 10 11 12 13 15 15 16 17 18 . No championship for 10s but some competition for u11
Run 10 12 14 16 18 first April to end June /mid July then mid July to Oct ages 11 13 15 17 . Then 18s year olds can play adult and u20 after adult over .
Would take a bit of organising and more thought .
Problems might be exams county minor etc but bit theres and will theres a way
Buy to keep lads playing they need to be up.to the age at some time during the year . Where they are the stronger boys and less likely to be intimated by older boys and give up..
Shortened championship bit like development leagues and the way minor snd 16s run at present. But you get to play 2 championships in 1 year." With the current Minor format at inter-county level, it's harder than it was before the play club championship games in April and May
I'm not too sure a Minor league is that much of an issue, think Clare have had one for quite a while now if I'm not mistaken?
I know there used to be the Jim Byrne Cup for U17s late in the year (A precursor for Minor football the following year), don't know if that's still going, there might have been an U13 hurling competition a few years back as well that was run late in the year
Could do with bringing back competitions like these and extending the playing year, have to make sure all clubs are involved as I don't think all clubs too part in the Jim Byrne Cup for example
Maybe competitions (Possibly indoors for the younger age groups) for U9/U11/U13/U15/U17 in winter and early spring?
I know there's also a district competition for Rackard League 6th Class students in both hurling and football
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 1293 - 22/05/2026 11:05:41
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Are the dev squads detrimental to underage hurling .
Squads of say 45 for hurling and 45 for football . Who are nt permitted to play in development leagues u16 or 18 . Leaving clubs without big numbers at a stretch across 2 ages to to fill teams fo dev leagues .
If u cant field teams how can you keep players playing.
I see a couple of walkoves or concedings in football dev finals . Not necessarily related could be exams school trips etc .
But if 90 players are taken out of equation for dev leagues cant be good for clubs and intensity in those games .
Club players go backwards . Dev squad players get better . Come back to clubs and play championship and can dominate as club players standards dropped .
Which has the knock on of dev squad players get complacent as they don't have to try as hard their standard drop. It's all related . Go back to dev squads and year on year they drop their standards of skill/intensity level as they dont get challenged enough at club level . It's a recurring cycle .
Our drop in underage age intercounty competiveness is related to the expansion of the intercounty underage championship competition . Which affects club championship which then affects stands of dev squads .
Theres Too much emphasis on intercountyy at underage.
Should not take away from club
Formertownie (Wexford) - Posts: 594 - 22/05/2026 11:14:24
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Replying To zinny: "People who say its going to make a difference imo are false prophets. If the lad is huring county when he is 25 that year will made zero difference to his development, I don't see the upside for the downside it will cause for so many young players who remember will never play county but they will be shoved into club teams to make up the numbers and who may never play again as a result. Everyone wants to change a rule for less than 5% of the players." Here's a downside to the new "Minors can play adult" rule, albeit not one that affects the higher level of things, so it's the kind of thing that probably won't get much attention -
In the All County Leagues for the past few years, my club was able to field two hurling and two football teams in every round, all obviously made up of players who were already out of Minor. This year, we haven't been able to do it once. There hasn't been a single match in either hurling or football where our second team hasn't had to bring three or four or even more Minors.
Those Minor lads are not being brought because they're good enough and strong enough that they should have been playing anyway, and that the only thing that would have stopped them before now was a rule. They're being brought because it's easier now for older players to opt out in any given week. "Sure they don't need me that badly. They can just bring up some of the young lads instead."
So these older ones who should indeed be playing are now starting to drift away instead. And I'd expect my club is not alone in this.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3689 - 22/05/2026 11:21:26
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Replying To ElGranSenor: "With the current Minor format at inter-county level, it's harder than it was before the play club championship games in April and May
I'm not too sure a Minor league is that much of an issue, think Clare have had one for quite a while now if I'm not mistaken?
I know there used to be the Jim Byrne Cup for U17s late in the year (A precursor for Minor football the following year), don't know if that's still going, there might have been an U13 hurling competition a few years back as well that was run late in the year
Could do with bringing back competitions like these and extending the playing year, have to make sure all clubs are involved as I don't think all clubs too part in the Jim Byrne Cup for example
Maybe competitions (Possibly indoors for the younger age groups) for U9/U11/U13/U15/U17 in winter and early spring?
I know there's also a district competition for Rackard League 6th Class students in both hurling and football" The U16 & U18 competitions in the early part of the year would have to remain as Leagues or "championships" without county players all right, but that shouldn't be a fatal flaw in the overall plan.
The Jim Byrne Cup and the associated Tier 2 and I think Tier 3 competitions (can't even remember what they were called!) actually used to be run early in the year, around February/March/early April. Basically the precursor to the Club Development Leagues that currently run. I don't recall an U13 hurling competition late in the year, but that's not to say it didn't happen.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3689 - 22/05/2026 11:46:00
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If anything I think certain lads are been flogged to death currently .. especially at U11 / U12 / U13 / U14 level. Primary schools have Rackard League, Mini 7s, Rounders etc as well as U12 and U14 championship, rising stars etc and soccer is only just after finishing up. Throw Football into the mix on top of that
MyOhMi (Wexford) - Posts: 314 - 22/05/2026 11:48:44
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Replying To MyOhMi: "If anything I think certain lads are been flogged to death currently .. especially at U11 / U12 / U13 / U14 level. Primary schools have Rackard League, Mini 7s, Rounders etc as well as U12 and U14 championship, rising stars etc and soccer is only just after finishing up. Throw Football into the mix on top of that" That's a fair point as well. I've seen my own lad having to juggle all those things. There were some weeks when he was absolutely worn out.
Just on soccer - in many cases, it's not actually finished up yet. On the Wexford Schoolboys League website, on their competitions page, they put a green tick beside a division when it's completed. Of the 51 divisions from U11 upwards (the point at which things become competitive leagues for them), only 21 of them have green ticks so far.
Granted, in many of them, most teams are finished and there are just two teams with one game left against each other. But others are crazy, considering things started all the way back in September.
Worst of all is U16 Division 1. Six teams in it, so 10 games each on a home and away basis. One team has only played six league matches so far, and another has only played five.
That's literally only half their league season completed, almost nine months after it started. They'll no doubt be hit with a raft of midweek games over the next few weeks. I'd hate to be trying to manage the U16 hurling or football team there, and having to work around that!
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 3689 - 22/05/2026 13:06:12
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Replying To Pikeman96: "That's actually a very interesting idea, and deserves further consideration.
Shorter championships (and particularly the first one - says groups of four, with just two going through) - could bring more of the "cut-throat" and "consequences" that another poster was looking for but had no ideas of his own. And if you do get knocked out early, well, there'll be more matches and a fresh start later in the year anyway.
Only obvious and immediate flaw is that by Rule, you can't run an official competition for U11, but that's only a minor point in the overall scheme of things. Another consideration is that you'd need twice as many sets of medals that somebody somewhere would have to pay for, but that's only a minor point too.
So, again - a really good idea, and worth further thought." Don't know how it would work but maybe we could do something like the following at underage
Championships for each age group every year
League for U14/U16/U18 (When Intercounty Minor is on - no county players allowed, can be 13-a-side)
Divisions of 8 for the Championships & a double-elimination structure like the AISF Championship
So 4v 4 in the first round, winners play each other and winners of that go straight to the SF, losers play each other and then the losers of that go out (Or else maybe go to a shield competition) while the winners go to the QFs where they play the losers of the winners' section
Would have issues with teams not being guaranteed home games but would be closer to a truer knock-out structure
Could play the first two rounds of U15/U17 Championship in hurling and football in March, then there'd be league in hurling and football during April, May, and early June (County games on plus exams)
Play out the rest of the U15/U17 games in late June/early July and then immediately start U16/U18, would probably finish at the same time of year as before
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 1293 - 22/05/2026 13:10:30
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Replying To Formertownie: "Are the dev squads detrimental to underage hurling .
Squads of say 45 for hurling and 45 for football . Who are nt permitted to play in development leagues u16 or 18 . Leaving clubs without big numbers at a stretch across 2 ages to to fill teams fo dev leagues .
If u cant field teams how can you keep players playing.
I see a couple of walkoves or concedings in football dev finals . Not necessarily related could be exams school trips etc .
But if 90 players are taken out of equation for dev leagues cant be good for clubs and intensity in those games .
Club players go backwards . Dev squad players get better . Come back to clubs and play championship and can dominate as club players standards dropped .
Which has the knock on of dev squad players get complacent as they don't have to try as hard their standard drop. It's all related . Go back to dev squads and year on year they drop their standards of skill/intensity level as they dont get challenged enough at club level . It's a recurring cycle .
Our drop in underage age intercounty competiveness is related to the expansion of the intercounty underage championship competition . Which affects club championship which then affects stands of dev squads .
Theres Too much emphasis on intercountyy at underage.
Should not take away from club" Problem there is that all the currently successful Senior counties also have development squads so they're probably affected by the same issues
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 1293 - 22/05/2026 13:35:01
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I suppose one drawback of Minor being U17 is that you have more TYs playing, think we're down two starters from the last day who are away on a TY trip to the US
ElGranSenor (Wexford) - Posts: 1293 - 22/05/2026 14:10:49
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