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New Format 2026 All Ireland

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@Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4464 - 17/04/2025

My AILC is a 27-week season, incorporating League & Prov SFCs into an all-in-one and plenty of staggered 'off weeks' to breathe.

With no Sam berth guarantee for Prov Champs, it can be said that Prov SFCs are decoupled from Sam, although Prov match pts aids AIC qualification to one of three AIC tiers.

While the AILC is complex (but not confusing) - it is so because I weave the Prov SFCs in - a political necessity.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3200 - 18/04/2025 02:51:52    2602521

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Replying To omahant:  "@Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4464 - 17/04/2025

My AILC is a 27-week season, incorporating League & Prov SFCs into an all-in-one and plenty of staggered 'off weeks' to breathe.

With no Sam berth guarantee for Prov Champs, it can be said that Prov SFCs are decoupled from Sam, although Prov match pts aids AIC qualification to one of three AIC tiers.

While the AILC is complex (but not confusing) - it is so because I weave the Prov SFCs in - a political necessity."
It just doesn't make sense though.

You could have an Ulster preliminary round count towards the All Ireland but the final not count.

That sort of situation just makes your proposal completely unworkable.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4478 - 18/04/2025 11:14:19    2602554

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Replying To Whammo86:  "It just doesn't make sense though.

You could have an Ulster preliminary round count towards the All Ireland but the final not count.

That sort of situation just makes your proposal completely unworkable."
Would 10 'intra-tier' games and 2 'tier-crossover' games for all, counting toward a total of 12 games, be better?

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3200 - 18/04/2025 15:19:58    2602614

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Replying To omahant:  "Would 10 'intra-tier' games and 2 'tier-crossover' games for all, counting toward a total of 12 games, be better?"
No, it's the provincials being half in half out that's the issue.

It doesn't make sense that some Provincials ties can count but finals can't.

You don't want a situation where a team is playing their provincial final and it's a hindrance to their All Ireland prospects.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4478 - 18/04/2025 19:40:28    2602642

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Replying To Whammo86:  "No, it's the provincials being half in half out that's the issue.

It doesn't make sense that some Provincials ties can count but finals can't.

You don't want a situation where a team is playing their provincial final and it's a hindrance to their All Ireland prospects."
As things currently stand the provincials are half in and half out.
There are a few scenarios that play out--
A team already qualified for A.I.C playing a team that need to win to qualify.
2 teams already qualified for A.I.C playing each other.
2 teams that each need to win in order to qualify for A.I.C
Then there are teams [ Some N.L D2 +D3] that are not quiet sure what needs to be done in order to qualify for A.I.C but need to reach a provincial Final to be sure but may also qualify by not doing so . It all being dependant on how things pan out in other provinces.

edu (Mayo) - Posts: 99 - 19/04/2025 00:22:59    2602684

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Replying To Whammo86:  "No, it's the provincials being half in half out that's the issue.

It doesn't make sense that some Provincials ties can count but finals can't.

You don't want a situation where a team is playing their provincial final and it's a hindrance to their All Ireland prospects."
I take your point but my most recent question of 10+2 was if awarding match pts for 2 tier-crossover Prov ties as well (or non-Prov tier-crossover, if needed) would be better?

Personally, I'd rather keep what I have - despite the off chance that Antrim wins Ulster playing 4 rounds, mostly tier-crossover.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3200 - 19/04/2025 00:41:03    2602685

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Replying To Whammo86:  "Look it's all about a bit of balance and some trade offs.

In a lot systems the weak get weaker and the strong get stronger.

I guess you want to give teams opportunity to grow and build and progress.

I'd see working at it over a number of seasons at the right level against teams the right amount above you makes the most sense.

It's not without cost. The dream runs when they happen are good for exposure to the game.

I'd guess the Fermanagh and Wexford examples would indicate that the progress never stuck.

It's also probably the case that it's increasingly difficult for a weaker team to pull of a shock."
It indicates that in the backdoor system some of the so-called weaker counties improved their standards because they had opportunity to test themselves against a higher standard. They now have very little chance of doing that in league or championship. Do you think under the current system they have the same opportunities of improving their standards compared to the back door All Ireland?

This thread is a discussion about the All Ireland. Weaker counties aren't discussed. They drop out of Division 2 and are almost guaranteed to be in Tailteann. Poor standard of football for their remaining championship and again in Division 3 the next season. Very slim chance to get to All Ireland by getting to a provincial final. Just my opinion but this thread is all about watching a few more good games on the telly between top teams when the All Ireland gets interesting. The league and provincials are devalued under this system. Division One this year was a joke. There should be more to intercounty football than top teams getting a few chances to qualify for an All Ireland series. A lot more.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7910 - 19/04/2025 05:45:26    2602689

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The ongoing football format discussion is sleep inducing. Hurling seems to be sorted with minor wrinkles but nothing is perfect.
Kerry had a poor hurling league and are looking to retain McDonagh status. They have enjoyed three weekends off. The hurling national league, championship group stage and knockout is more or less working fine. Finally a hurling league format has been found that should last the course.
Football, football, football!!! Teams falling over each other not to make the Division 1 final! Donegal v Derry, Cork v Kerry, Galway v Roscommon, Donegal v Monaghan, Meath v Dublin and Armagh v Tyrone dead rubbers as all have qualified for the All-Ireland series - just like Tyrone v Dublin in 2019 was a dead rubber as both had already qualified for the All-Ireland semi finals.
The whole thing is a mess. The GAA might fix the league final with a weekend off afterwards. They are still going to be left with the phoney war in provincial championships.

legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8716 - 19/04/2025 08:13:32    2602693

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The ongoing football format discussion is sleep inducing. Hurling seems to be sorted with minor wrinkles but nothing is perfect.
Kerry had a poor hurling league and are looking to retain McDonagh status. They have enjoyed three weekends off. The hurling national league, championship group stage and knockout is more or less working fine. Finally a hurling league format has been found that should last the course.
Football, football, football!!! Teams falling over each other not to make the Division 1 final! Donegal v Derry, Cork v Kerry, Galway v Roscommon, Donegal v Monaghan, Meath v Dublin and Armagh v Tyrone dead rubbers as all have qualified for the All-Ireland series - just like Tyrone v Dublin in 2019 was a dead rubber as both had already qualified for the All-Ireland semi finals.
The whole thing is a mess. The GAA might fix the league final with a weekend off afterwards. They are still going to be left with the phoney war in provincial championships."
Then either
A abolish Provincials
B make them pre season competitions
C make them Qualifiers for AI Championship
D adopt the hurling format where only top teams play in the Provincials and the rest play in lower grades.

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2251 - 19/04/2025 11:04:06    2602715

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Replying To edu:  "As things currently stand the provincials are half in and half out.
There are a few scenarios that play out--
A team already qualified for A.I.C playing a team that need to win to qualify.
2 teams already qualified for A.I.C playing each other.
2 teams that each need to win in order to qualify for A.I.C
Then there are teams [ Some N.L D2 +D3
that are not quiet sure what needs to be done in order to qualify for A.I.C but need to reach a provincial Final to be sure but may also qualify by not doing so . It all being dependant on how things pan out in other provinces."]Yeah I agree with you and I think it's slowly killing them already.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4478 - 19/04/2025 11:57:33    2602734

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Replying To omahant:  "I take your point but my most recent question of 10+2 was if awarding match pts for 2 tier-crossover Prov ties as well (or non-Prov tier-crossover, if needed) would be better?

Personally, I'd rather keep what I have - despite the off chance that Antrim wins Ulster playing 4 rounds, mostly tier-crossover."
Ah right, no I don't think cross tier matches counting makes much sense either.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4478 - 19/04/2025 11:58:22    2602736

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "It indicates that in the backdoor system some of the so-called weaker counties improved their standards because they had opportunity to test themselves against a higher standard. They now have very little chance of doing that in league or championship. Do you think under the current system they have the same opportunities of improving their standards compared to the back door All Ireland?

This thread is a discussion about the All Ireland. Weaker counties aren't discussed. They drop out of Division 2 and are almost guaranteed to be in Tailteann. Poor standard of football for their remaining championship and again in Division 3 the next season. Very slim chance to get to All Ireland by getting to a provincial final. Just my opinion but this thread is all about watching a few more good games on the telly between top teams when the All Ireland gets interesting. The league and provincials are devalued under this system. Division One this year was a joke. There should be more to intercounty football than top teams getting a few chances to qualify for an All Ireland series. A lot more."
I don't agree with this thread just about being having top teams having more chances.

I don't agree that some weaker teams having a qualifier run that proved to be fleeting is evidence that teams were able to raise their standards.

Calling the Tailteann a poor standard of football lacks a lot of nuance.

Antrim got to play 11 Tailteann fixtures over the last 2 seasons and they were playing teams that were a mix of being better, similar standard and a little bit worse than us. Those are the games that we need more of, those are games that can stretch us and improve us.

The reason I liked tiered competition is because it provides teams that aren't challenging at the level that they are in to play more matches of consequence because they need to avoid relegation.

You're glass half empty thinking about the teams in Tailteann because the likes of Down, Laois, Westmeath and Kildare that are a bit above Antrim could be qualifying for the top tier All Ireland and getting multiple games against division 1 standard teams.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4478 - 19/04/2025 14:32:40    2602752

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Replying To Whammo86:  "I don't agree with this thread just about being having top teams having more chances.

I don't agree that some weaker teams having a qualifier run that proved to be fleeting is evidence that teams were able to raise their standards.

Calling the Tailteann a poor standard of football lacks a lot of nuance.

Antrim got to play 11 Tailteann fixtures over the last 2 seasons and they were playing teams that were a mix of being better, similar standard and a little bit worse than us. Those are the games that we need more of, those are games that can stretch us and improve us.

The reason I liked tiered competition is because it provides teams that aren't challenging at the level that they are in to play more matches of consequence because they need to avoid relegation.

You're glass half empty thinking about the teams in Tailteann because the likes of Down, Laois, Westmeath and Kildare that are a bit above Antrim could be qualifying for the top tier All Ireland and getting multiple games against division 1 standard teams."
So you think the gap in football standards between top half and bottom half counties will get tighter under the current system, compared to the backdoor championship system when teams weren't seeded?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7910 - 19/04/2025 17:01:42    2602795

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "So you think the gap in football standards between top half and bottom half counties will get tighter under the current system, compared to the backdoor championship system when teams weren't seeded?"
I'm clearly not fully happy with the current system.

I think a proper tiered competition would be better overall and would help to close the standards.

A system like the old league of 2 groups of 8 per tier would be a good start. If a team had a good crop of players they'd have a fair shot at improving and progressing and who knows where they get to.

They only be 1 season from getting to tier 1 and getting 7 meaningful fixtures against other top 16 teams.

How many years of qualifiers does it take to get that number of quality games.

Don't forget we also need teams that aren't challenging in that top half but not All Ireland challengers to have quality games to progress.

You compare the number of championship tests that Meath were getting over the years versus Dublin and is it any wonder they were increasingly unable to compete. Although I do accept that there were other factors at play there.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4478 - 19/04/2025 19:07:15    2602859

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I think of Antrim from about 15-20 years ago, we'd a relatively ok team, got to an Ulster final, gave Kerry something of a game in the qualifiers. Beat Galway. Had a season in division 2. I wonder could we have progressed if we were in a high profile top tier.

Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4478 - 19/04/2025 19:09:11    2602861

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "Then either
A abolish Provincials
B make them pre season competitions
C make them Qualifiers for AI Championship
D adopt the hurling format where only top teams play in the Provincials and the rest play in lower grades."
Actually most hurling counties do not participate in their respective provincial championships.

edu (Mayo) - Posts: 99 - 19/04/2025 20:28:18    2602891

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Replying To edu:  "Actually most hurling counties do not participate in their respective provincial championships."
I said that under D

Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2251 - 19/04/2025 22:20:13    2602928

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Replying To Seanfanbocht:  "I said that under D"
Yes just emphasizing that fact.

edu (Mayo) - Posts: 99 - 20/04/2025 01:54:46    2602948

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Replying To Whammo86:  "No, it's the provincials being half in half out that's the issue.

It doesn't make sense that some Provincials ties can count but finals can't.

You don't want a situation where a team is playing their provincial final and it's a hindrance to their All Ireland prospects."
Half in / half out:
Clare in after beating Tipp;
Kerry gains nothing beating Cork (both in Sam before game).

It's there already.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3200 - 20/04/2025 14:50:51    2603058

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Replying To legendzxix:  "The ongoing football format discussion is sleep inducing. Hurling seems to be sorted with minor wrinkles but nothing is perfect.
Kerry had a poor hurling league and are looking to retain McDonagh status. They have enjoyed three weekends off. The hurling national league, championship group stage and knockout is more or less working fine. Finally a hurling league format has been found that should last the course.
Football, football, football!!! Teams falling over each other not to make the Division 1 final! Donegal v Derry, Cork v Kerry, Galway v Roscommon, Donegal v Monaghan, Meath v Dublin and Armagh v Tyrone dead rubbers as all have qualified for the All-Ireland series - just like Tyrone v Dublin in 2019 was a dead rubber as both had already qualified for the All-Ireland semi finals.
The whole thing is a mess. The GAA might fix the league final with a weekend off afterwards. They are still going to be left with the phoney war in provincial championships."
But as you nod off, you keep coning up with ideas - inducing roll on.

omahant (USA) - Posts: 3200 - 20/04/2025 14:53:45    2603060

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