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Other tweak that might work: Treat Prov Finals as 4 AIC Rd 1 ties (maybe Rd 1A for clear designation). Rd 1B has other 4 ties (8 non-Prov Finalist, league highest). Rd 2A: 4 Prov Champ/Rd 1A winners v 4 Rd 1B winners. Rd 2B: 8 losers (Rd 1A + Rd 1B combined, open draw). Rd 3/ PQFs: 4 Rd 2A losers v 4 Rd 2B winners. QFs: 4 Rd 2A winners v 4 Rd 3 winners. SFs. F. omahant (USA) - Posts: 3085 - 01/02/2025 16:51:44 2588774 Link 0 |
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Yes fewer games[teams guaranteed just 2 games as opposed to 3 at the moment] but where is the more jeopardy] Round 1 ------ 8 games . No jeopardy. Round 2A----- 4 games. No jeopardy. Round 2B------ 4 games. Jeopardy. So in the first 2 rounds of 16 games only 4 games are K.O . Hardly more jeopardy. The 4 game round before the Q.F[ Round 3] is the same as the current P.Q.F [same thing different name]. The double elimination format is not widely used in G.A.A competitions. Why would that be? I am only aware of it in 2 instances both in club competitions . It was used in the lower tier hurling championships for a number of years but has been abandoned in favour of 6 team groups with all teams getting a minimum of 5 championship games. A progressive move indeed. Football please take note. Is the current group set up really all that bad. After all it was voted in with an overwhelming majority of 95% in 2022 and now it seems that a majority want something different .Strange indeed. In the 2024 group stages all teams had something to play for going into the final round of group games. Now teams with aspirations of winning an A.I.C were well aware of the advantage of winning a group as opposed to finishing 3nd and having to play an away P.Q.F. In fact winning a group conveyed the same reward as winning a Provincial Championship in the qualifier era i.e a Q.F spot. Probably one place the groups were found wanting were that in most cases in 2023 and 2024 the team that were going to finish bottom could be identified in advance and with 3 teams qualifying then that sense of no jeopardy prevailed The ideal scenario to arrive at in a group at the 3nd round would for all 4 teams to be on one win a piece. Now that certainly would be exciting. To date that has not happened. Within the top 16 there is an obvious gulf in class between the top few teams and the bottom handful of teams. Maybe[probably] 16 teams are too many for the A.I.C. edu (Mayo) - Posts: 89 - 01/02/2025 22:55:33 2588818 Link 0 |
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Watched Armagh V Tyrone and while it was fast paced and high scoring my view so far is that the new rules have made football even worse for spectators. Instead of 15 behind the ball you have 12 following it like school kids and worst of all the swarm tackling is destroying the game. It's early days but I, a season ticket holder for many years, would not be in a hurry to go watch this stuff. martinjoe (Mayo) - Posts: 526 - 02/02/2025 08:20:29 2588833 Link 0 |
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but where is the more jeopardy] Round 1 ------ 8 games . No jeopardy. Round 2A----- 4 games. No jeopardy. Round 2B------ 4 games. Jeopardy. So in the first 2 rounds of 16 games only 4 games are K.O . Hardly more jeopardy. The 4 game round before the Q.F[ Round 3] is the same as the current P.Q.F [same thing different name]. The double elimination format is not widely used in G.A.A competitions. Why would that be? I am only aware of it in 2 instances both in club competitions . It was used in the lower tier hurling championships for a number of years but has been abandoned in favour of 6 team groups with all teams getting a minimum of 5 championship games. A progressive move indeed. Football please take note. Is the current group set up really all that bad. After all it was voted in with an overwhelming majority of 95% in 2022 and now it seems that a majority want something different .Strange indeed. In the 2024 group stages all teams had something to play for going into the final round of group games. Now teams with aspirations of winning an A.I.C were well aware of the advantage of winning a group as opposed to finishing 3nd and having to play an away P.Q.F. In fact winning a group conveyed the same reward as winning a Provincial Championship in the qualifier era i.e a Q.F spot. Probably one place the groups were found wanting were that in most cases in 2023 and 2024 the team that were going to finish bottom could be identified in advance and with 3 teams qualifying then that sense of no jeopardy prevailed The ideal scenario to arrive at in a group at the 3nd round would for all 4 teams to be on one win a piece. Now that certainly would be exciting. To date that has not happened. Within the top 16 there is an obvious gulf in class between the top few teams and the bottom handful of teams. Maybe[probably] 16 teams are too many for the A.I.C."]Yeah you are right. I think the season needs a bit of the fat cut around the edges. The championship needs to be determining the entry for the following season, that allows for more games but fewer places in the knockout stages and more intensity as a result. The league and provincials and double elimination is all just a bit too safe for too long. The double elimination is an improvement on the group stage but it's not properly solving the issue. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4399 - 02/02/2025 14:23:50 2588880 Link 0 |
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@edu omahant (USA) - Posts: 3085 - 02/02/2025 15:40:40 2588893 Link 0 |
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Football is finished if they keep some of these idiotic rules and punishments. The referee has more control over the outcome now than ever. The idiotic offensive mark is correctly named because it's offensive to anyone that loves football. The free kick for not maintaining 3 players in your own half is ridicules. Imagine a situation where a team thinks they have won an All Ireland final with a point only for the referee to award the other team a free on their 21 to win the match. Utter stupidity. cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 493 - 02/02/2025 16:15:31 2588908 Link 0 |
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Some rules could be tweaked but mayo moaning after a defeat how surprising. U want none of rules maybe defensive coaches would love u. Mayo no forwards that's issue Gaaforlife2023 (Longford) - Posts: 586 - 02/02/2025 16:37:39 2588921 Link 0 |
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The 3 players up is a rule, whether you like it or not. The " utter stupidity" you refer to would apply to a ( winning) team ignoring the rules !! Yellaman (Wexford) - Posts: 141 - 02/02/2025 17:10:11 2588937 Link 1 |
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Whatever about rules how come we can't seem to adapt like most other counties? Our sideline is absolutely clueless. McStay was quoted as saying the 2 pointers were not really relevant…really? I can accept defeat to a better team but I will not accept no fight, pride or the lack of basic execution of the skills of the game. What do they be at in training? yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11463 - 02/02/2025 17:18:36 2588944 Link 0 |
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I'm not qualified to answer that question & if I was I probably still couldn't. I don't know if it's by design or player decision but I believe only 2 players scored 2 pointers today for Mayo from play. Wide open and refusing to take a shot from just outside ye arc should land you on the bench or off the team. Today was a horror show. cluichethar (Mayo) - Posts: 493 - 02/02/2025 18:24:17 2588971 Link 0 |
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The double eliminator gives finalists and qualifiers an opportunity to grow into the tournament. Finalists could be a bit flat. Qualifiers a bit rusty. Those knocked out in Round 2B or Round 3 shouldn't have much complaints, unless a winning provincial winner is knocked into Round 3 by another winning provincial winner in Round 2A. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8533 - 03/02/2025 02:53:42 2589120 Link 0 |
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You would wonder what the league and provincials are for if not to grow into the season.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4399 - 04/02/2025 17:18:34 2589479 Link 1 |
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Fair but as we know sides can have 5 weeks from provincial knockout to All Ireland. Provincial finalists can caught a bit flat in their next game. The league is supposed to be for "incremental improvement". In Jarlath Burns' own words the championship is there to produce a champion. All championships regardless of seeding can only produce one winner. While there is obviously a runner up from the provincial championships, they are not designed to produce a fair runner up. Runners up are being overly rewarded.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8533 - 05/02/2025 01:44:24 2589533 Link 0 |
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I mean I'd agree to disagree on leagues being for incremental improvement. There's nothing like the cut and thrust of real competition for bringing teams on. As has been stated already league and Provincials should be played in parallel. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4399 - 05/02/2025 10:09:19 2589555 Link 0 |
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Or, with the latter as part of the former :) I'm a broken record, I know ! Given the tight match schedule and so many tasty 'top 12' pairings going unplayed each year, it's a luxury for any pairing to be played twice, prior to the short concluding AIC Series. omahant (USA) - Posts: 3085 - 05/02/2025 13:25:18 2589594 Link 0 |
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I can just see too many potential really quite bad outcomes from having 2nd tier teams play in the Provincials with no route back into the All Ireland.
Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4399 - 05/02/2025 16:59:16 2589634 Link 0 |
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I had to sacrifice something and this should be very rare (Tipp and Cavan again, hmmm). A Tier 2 Prov Champ, with a Tier 2 'top 4' finish could still compete for my Shield and with promotion, for Sam the next year. Also, I exclude 8 Tier 1 teams (who could more likely be Prov Champs) from my Sam playoffs. Some argue to scrap the Provs or delink entirely from Sam - mine is at least a halfway house. omahant (USA) - Posts: 3085 - 05/02/2025 20:32:53 2589671 Link 0 |
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There is no indication of provincial winners being excluded from the All Ireland any time soon. With that in mind, any format worth its salt includes 4 provincial winners and 1 Tailteann winner. I'm not on board with the current lopsided provincial championships. The footballers of Clare, Limerick, Tipperary and Waterford should be honest that getting through a lopsided draw isn't earning the respect of their own people. League seeding is a fair solution. Clare and Limerick were challenging Cork in Division 2 a few years back. It isn't entirely beyond them to get above Cork in the league for a Top 2 seeding that could then result in Kerry and Cork on one side of the draw. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8533 - 06/02/2025 09:07:08 2589716 Link 0 |
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4 Provincial Champions, last year's Sam and TC winners, then go down NFL till you get 16.
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2079 - 06/02/2025 10:27:33 2589729 Link 0 |
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I'd suggest that a halfway house is the worst of both worlds. Yes it will be rare for a Provincial champion to come from outside the top 16 but it'll be a disaster when it does happen. It will be a relatively regular occurrence for it to happen that a Provincial final will be contested by a non top 16 team. Do you turn a Provincial final into a farce in that case. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4399 - 06/02/2025 10:32:15 2589730 Link 0 |