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Football Format Changes Discussion

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Replying To ORIELMAN85: "Not a chance. Players want games." Imagine the scenario Armagh bt Monaghan in the prelim round Donegal in QF, Derry in SF. Lose to Tyrone in Final. Then play 3 games in a group v Cork, Mayo and Derry again. Meanwhile Dublin have 3 walks in the park, get 5 or 6 weeks rest, Kerry bt Waterford and Cork and also get 5 or 6 weeks rest.. Who comes out with this **? Or is it HQ floating Prentys idea to gauge the reaction? Seanfanbocht (Roscommon)** - Posts: 1967 - 06/06/2024 14:29:25 2549864 Link
Replying To Seanfanbocht: "Imagine the scenario Armagh bt Monaghan in the prelim round Donegal in QF, Derry in SF. Lose to Tyrone in Final. Then play 3 games in a group v Cork, Mayo and Derry again. Meanwhile Dublin have 3 walks in the park, get 5 or 6 weeks rest, Kerry bt Waterford and Cork and also get 5 or 6 weeks rest.. Who comes out with this **? Or is it HQ floating Prentys idea to gauge the reaction?" Yeah, a bit unbalanced alright. My response is: give Armagh match pts for the hard Ulster wins and then swap opponents with Dublin & Kerry who play those tough Ulster teams while Armagh rounds out their schedule playing the likes of Waterford. You'd have a mix of good and bad games but it would be fair. Best teams advance to the KO like any sane tourney. omahant (USA)** - Posts: 2899 - 06/06/2024 16:04:53 2549877 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "There are rumours that the CCC are looking to streamline the football championship. One option being explored is provincial winners direct to quarter-finals. The other 12 in three groups of 4. Possibly only the group winner from the three going forward to the quarter-finals. Not exactly ideal. I'd imagine Seed 3 v Seed 4 in Round 1, Seed 2 provincial runners-up v Seed 4 in Round 2 and Seed 2 v Seed 3 in Round 3." Thats not for me anyway. You'd have the same problem with dead rubbers but with the added complication of getting 12 down to 4 in lop-sided groups. Its hard to untangle the various things that are working against football at the moment. There are really 4 things being tried at the same time 1 - Linking the league to the championship 2 - Keeping as many teams as possible in for as long as possible avoiding dead rubbers 3 - Tailteann cup 4 - Fully split season with All Ireland final in July To me - a lot of the problems we are seeing would be solved by removing the split season from the equation. If the group phase was played over 6 weeks in the summer then I think the crowds would come back. It was frosty last night and yet the All Ireland quarter finals are just 3 weeks away! I'd also remove the link between the league and championship - but keep the tiers as is. To move up a tier you either need to win your province or move up from the tailteann cup. Both would apply to the following season. I could see a very interesting play off competition between say teams 2 & 3 in the tailteann cup and teams 14 & 15 in the Sam Maguire. Bring avoiding being bottom of your group into the competition and theres no need for preliminary 1/4 finals to avoid dead rubbers as well. brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 356 - 06/06/2024 16:40:23 2549885 Link
Replying To brianb: "Thats not for me anyway. You'd have the same problem with dead rubbers but with the added complication of getting 12 down to 4 in lop-sided groups. Its hard to untangle the various things that are working against football at the moment. There are really 4 things being tried at the same time 1 - Linking the league to the championship 2 - Keeping as many teams as possible in for as long as possible avoiding dead rubbers 3 - Tailteann cup 4 - Fully split season with All Ireland final in July To me - a lot of the problems we are seeing would be solved by removing the split season from the equation. If the group phase was played over 6 weeks in the summer then I think the crowds would come back. It was frosty last night and yet the All Ireland quarter finals are just 3 weeks away! I'd also remove the link between the league and championship - but keep the tiers as is. To move up a tier you either need to win your province or move up from the tailteann cup. Both would apply to the following season. I could see a very interesting play off competition between say teams 2 & 3 in the tailteann cup and teams 14 & 15 in the Sam Maguire. Bring avoiding being bottom of your group into the competition and theres no need for preliminary 1/4 finals to avoid dead rubbers as well." You will have dead rubbers no matter what group based system you have and the potential for them shouldn't be reason to not have a particular format in place. KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 3675 - 06/06/2024 17:16:46 2549890 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "There are rumours that the CCC are looking to streamline the football championship. One option being explored is provincial winners direct to quarter-finals. The other 12 in three groups of 4. Possibly only the group winner from the three going forward to the quarter-finals. Not exactly ideal. I'd imagine Seed 3 v Seed 4 in Round 1, Seed 2 provincial runners-up v Seed 4 in Round 2 and Seed 2 v Seed 3 in Round 3." Typo in my earlier post. The CCC are looking at 4 groups of 3 teams each. Guessing each county will have one home game and one away game. Groups of only 3 teams seems very messy. A basic change is the top two only qualifying from the group. Provincial finalists could be rewarded with two home games. In groups of 4 with 2 advancing and if fixtures have to be planned in advance for logistical reasons, you don't want two on two wins each playing in Round 3, the higher probability of avoiding that is: Round 1: Seed 1 v Seed 3 and Seed 2 v Seed 4 Round 2: Seed 1 v Seed 2 and Seed 3 v Seed 4 Round 1: Seed 2 v Seed 3 and Seed 4 v Seed 1 Now there is still a reasonable probability of 2 and 3 have 2 wins, or even a Seed 4 but sure looks, avoiding dead rubbers shouldn't come with the price of no jeopardy. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8299 - 06/06/2024 17:26:26 2549892 Link
Replying To brianb: "Thats not for me anyway. You'd have the same problem with dead rubbers but with the added complication of getting 12 down to 4 in lop-sided groups. Its hard to untangle the various things that are working against football at the moment. There are really 4 things being tried at the same time 1 - Linking the league to the championship 2 - Keeping as many teams as possible in for as long as possible avoiding dead rubbers 3 - Tailteann cup 4 - Fully split season with All Ireland final in July To me - a lot of the problems we are seeing would be solved by removing the split season from the equation. If the group phase was played over 6 weeks in the summer then I think the crowds would come back. It was frosty last night and yet the All Ireland quarter finals are just 3 weeks away! I'd also remove the link between the league and championship - but keep the tiers as is. To move up a tier you either need to win your province or move up from the tailteann cup. Both would apply to the following season. I could see a very interesting play off competition between say teams 2 & 3 in the tailteann cup and teams 14 & 15 in the Sam Maguire. Bring avoiding being bottom of your group into the competition and theres no need for preliminary 1/4 finals to avoid dead rubbers as well." Yes something like this would also be a big improvement. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 06/06/2024 18:24:51 2549899 Link
No dead rubbers next weekend. There would be 3 if 2 teams were going through from the groups. If this Prenty system was to come in I'd guess the Provincial Finals would be in late May. The groups of 3 games would be last weekend May, 1st 2 weeks June. Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1967 - 06/06/2024 20:08:40 2549914 Link
Replying To KillingFields: "You will have dead rubbers no matter what group based system you have and the potential for them shouldn't be reason to not have a particular format in place." The obsession with having no dead rubbers really annoys me. There are dead rubbers in the hurling and no-one cares because the competition has good teams playing one another regularly in a format where good teams fail to make it out of the group stage. That's what the focus should be on. That's what makes things exciting. When there's something on the line. Promotion and relegation through the championship would also add more spice to the competition though too. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 07/06/2024 04:00:13 2549938 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "The obsession with having no dead rubbers really annoys me. There are dead rubbers in the hurling and no-one cares because the competition has good teams playing one another regularly in a format where good teams fail to make it out of the group stage. That's what the focus should be on. That's what makes things exciting. When there's something on the line. Promotion and relegation through the championship would also add more spice to the competition though too." 100% agree… 24 games will be played and only 4 of them will have any jeopardy as regards being knocked out of the competition, and even then draws will do in those 4 games to put certain teams through.. Madness stuff.. this is not a real Championship at all… Teams still in it despite 3 defeats in a row… bonkers ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3034 - 07/06/2024 07:19:20 2549942 Link
Replying To Seanfanbocht: "No dead rubbers next weekend. There would be 3 if 2 teams were going through from the groups. If this Prenty system was to come in I'd guess the Provincial Finals would be in late May. The groups of 3 games would be last weekend May, 1st 2 weeks June." The Pretty system if they take that direction would possibly require 4 provincial finals on the same weekend. Otherwise the Connacht and Munster champions could be waiting 5 weeks for the quarter-final. If the 4 provincial winners contested a Champions Round, the two winners could go off to the semi-finals. The two losers to the quarter-finals. The 4 groups of 3 winners could contest a preliminary quarter-final, where the two winners would advance to the two quarter-finals. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8299 - 07/06/2024 10:41:54 2549963 Link
Replying To legendzxix: "The Pretty system if they take that direction would possibly require 4 provincial finals on the same weekend. Otherwise the Connacht and Munster champions could be waiting 5 weeks for the quarter-final. If the 4 provincial winners contested a Champions Round, the two winners could go off to the semi-finals. The two losers to the quarter-finals. The 4 groups of 3 winners could contest a preliminary quarter-final, where the two winners would advance to the two quarter-finals." Don't know how serious the Prenty system is being taken. Is it a bit of kite flying or are HQ seriously considering it? It seriously gives Dublin and Kerry a major advantage as if they haven't enough already. I know players and managers have more on their minds these weeks but I'd love to hear what they might think of it. Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1967 - 07/06/2024 11:04:48 2549966 Link
Replying To ForeverBlue2: "100% agree… 24 games will be played and only 4 of them will have any jeopardy as regards being knocked out of the competition, and even then draws will do in those 4 games to put certain teams through.. Madness stuff.. this is not a real Championship at all… Teams still in it despite 3 defeats in a row… bonkers" Again your ignorance is astounding. Teams have only yet played 2 games in the All Ireland Championship,so how 3 losses? All games in this system have jeopardy. They all count towards final positions,very important with bye weeks and home advantage at stake. Last year 3 of the group toppers were semi finalists, and only a Rory Beggan penalty save stopped it being all 4. Ask Galway when jeopardy begins. Seldom have we seen anyone as clueless about sport competitions on this forum. The biggest stakeholders in this are the players. If any of them would entertain you, then get their opinion. You come across as a little selfish old man who wants his own way at all costs. Get used to it lad we are not going back to your "one and done" competition or anything like it. ORIELMAN85 (Monaghan) - Posts: 390 - 07/06/2024 11:39:10 2549974 Link
Replying To ORIELMAN85: "Again your ignorance is astounding. Teams have only yet played 2 games in the All Ireland Championship,so how 3 losses? All games in this system have jeopardy. They all count towards final positions,very important with bye weeks and home advantage at stake. Last year 3 of the group toppers were semi finalists, and only a Rory Beggan penalty save stopped it being all 4. Ask Galway when jeopardy begins. Seldom have we seen anyone as clueless about sport competitions on this forum. The biggest stakeholders in this are the players. If any of them would entertain you, then get their opinion. You come across as a little selfish old man who wants his own way at all costs. Get used to it lad we are not going back to your "one and done" competition or anything like it." Is provincial no longer championship? johncreilly (Sligo) - Posts: 109 - 07/06/2024 11:52:14 2549976 Link
I'm just going to say it. Bring back the qualifiers. Is this any better? johncreilly (Sligo) - Posts: 109 - 07/06/2024 11:56:33 2549977 Link
Replying To johncreilly: "Is provincial no longer championship?" There are FOUR Provincial Championships all Separate. There is ONE All Ireland Championship separate to the above 4 but with some links. The NFL is also a separate competition but with some links. Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 1967 - 07/06/2024 12:22:48 2549981 Link
The Provincial Championship in Ulster and Connacht are excellent, the Dub dominance of Leinster is not going to last forever and Cork are showing signs of a revival in Munster. Provincial winners must be well rewarded. At the moment that reward is a first home game in the round robin. If a provincial winner goes on to top the group they play QF at home or a venue of choice depending on stadium numbers or they should play a team that finishes 3rd in the round robin. giveitlong (Galway) - Posts: 1258 - 07/06/2024 12:55:07 2549991 Link
Replying To johncreilly: "Is provincial no longer championship?" That clueless idiot from Monaghan doesn't see the provincials as championships at all…. even though it's the only one his team have any hope in ( like ourselves ) … Once you hear a clown using the word 'stakeholders' for players you know your dealing with an idiot… Probably never saw a GAA game ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3034 - 07/06/2024 13:19:40 2549998 Link
Tier 1 & 2, 'four groups of four' in each. Tier 1, 4 x top 2s to AI KO QFs. Tier 1, 4 x 3rds to Tier 2 KO QFs. Tier 1, 4 x 4ths v Tier 2, 4 x 1sts to Tier 2 KO Prelim QFs (4 losers go or stay down, QF8 go or stay up). Tier 2, 4 x 2nds v 4 x 3rds to Tier 3 KO QFs (all 8 stay down). omahant (USA) - Posts: 2899 - 08/06/2024 00:08:11 2550115 Link
If 3rd placed teams were ranked 9 to 12 based on results and 4th placed teams ranked 13 to 16 based on results, with the top 11 championship ranked counties qualifying for the next year's championship, counties knocked out after Round 2 would still have a reason to win in Round 3. Counties 12 to 15 can be in line for a wild card qualification where a county in the top 11 wins their provincial championship. legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8299 - 08/06/2024 07:54:37 2550124 Link
Replying To johncreilly: "I'm just going to say it. Bring back the qualifiers. Is this any better?" I think it's better for counties like ours getting more games around our level. Overall I think it's worse though. Years ago when they were talking about tiered championship I always just thought a better solution was to take the league out of February and March. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4329 - 09/06/2024 07:20:37 2550262 Link