|
Replying To Viking66: "https://kilkennygaa.ie/2024/03/u19-development-league/
https://kilkennygaa.ie/2024/03/29860/
Don't think any lads are on both Kilkennys u20 and U19 panels. They even have different managers.
A few lads didn't commit to ours apparently. All the same the results have been very poor. I wonder are they setting up like the u20s? They have conceded 12 goals in 3 games, and have been hammered by Dublin, Offaly and Kilkenny." From what I seen from the under 20s Saturday and looking at the u19 results I would be worried about the players coming through
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 327 - 04/04/2024 09:30:33
2535500
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Afinestick96: "From what I seen from the under 20s Saturday and looking at the u19 results I would be worried about the players coming through" I wouldn't be too hasty.
It's certainly better to have success at underage but you only really need 3/4 players per year from those teams.
Galway are always excellent at underage but less successful than us at senior.
Even looking back on great teams we've had they don't generally do anything until 21.
We've had multiple 21 teams in all Ireland finals who did nothing at minor.
Wouldn't be throwing in the towel just yet.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2900 - 04/04/2024 10:41:08
2535523
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Afinestick96: "From what I seen from the under 20s Saturday and looking at the u19 results I would be worried about the players coming through" Simon Roche, Brohan, Kehoe, O Tuama, Whelan, Byrne, Rowley, Farrell, Luke Murphy, Luke Roche, and the 2 Purcells all started or were on matchday 24s on last years u20 team. Wickham, Asple and Cian Doyle were also on the panel. That's 15 lads. And the lads up to the age this year were unlucky to lose the Leinster minor final in 2021 to Kilkenny by a single score their keeper made some excellent saves. Some of those lads are currently injured but it's wronging the players to say "we haven't the players" or that "we have a long tail". They are still only teenagers.
I don't think we took the u19s as seriously as the other counties. Some of the players asked wouldn't commit to it, it's not an "official " competition, just something Kilkenny organised and invited us to participate in. Kilkenny took it seriously, they had a completely seperate u19 panel for it, and even had their own seperate management team and dedicated u19 squad training.
As regards the u20s we were missing some starters last Saturday, including one of our best players at the grade, if not the best. More worrying than the players was the teams set up and shape. We were largely smaller than Kilkenny, as we always seem to be, so need a gameplan to suit.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12873 - 04/04/2024 10:55:38
2535532
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Doylerwex: "I wouldn't be too hasty.
It's certainly better to have success at underage but you only really need 3/4 players per year from those teams.
Galway are always excellent at underage but less successful than us at senior.
Even looking back on great teams we've had they don't generally do anything until 21.
We've had multiple 21 teams in all Ireland finals who did nothing at minor.
Wouldn't be throwing in the towel just yet." I wouldnt say Galway are less successful than us at senior . In the last 20 years they have been to 4 All Ireland finals winning 1. We havent been there since 96. They've won 3 Leinster championships since 2009 we've only won one. We havent beaten them since 96 in championship.
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 327 - 04/04/2024 11:03:37
2535536
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Slowandshortsighted: "As with any defeat the whole script is to be tore up and everything is wrong. This was a bad bad defeat no one is going to shy away from that. These days are well gone where a wexford team goes to kk and gets hammered out the gate. When i saw the big back room team i was happy that alot of people were involved. Joyce is a defense coach and this is his first job but the harm was being done further out. I think wexford midfield got 1-5 between them and when ran at kk were in trouble. Theres a big lack of pace there and its dissapointing it wasnt targetted more.lets not forget kk were very sore losing twice last year to wexford and that was very evident on Saturday. They wanted goals. I will give them that they have hurlers coming. This team will improve and id expect a much better performance the next day. These lads are only chaps and are learning everyday. No point lads coming on here slating them either behind fake names. Arm around the shoulder can be better than a kick in the arse" Nobody has criticised the players. I and most here are conscious of players and mental health etc having sons not much younger than some of these players. No player ever went out to hurl bad. There was enough of a nucleus of last years team that lost out to Offaly to say that it should form the heart of a decent team, or as a ground zero not a team to go out and be beaten out the gate.
But why shouldn't management be criticised? Message board or not. A big back room team in inter county costs a lot of money every night they train and questions need to be asked and answered. Nobody does inter county GAA for nothing any more. Everybody is on the take, so they have to be accountable.
This is not Tom, Dick and Harry over the U12 team giving their time freely.
You talk about a "defence coach" in Joyce, what was he at for the last 4 months if they concede 4-21 the first day out?
This is the big leagues and they had plenty of time to prepare a team to at least go out and compete. They can't just be given a free pass and I hope clubs ask real and honest questions about this appointment unless things turn around massively. The whole appointment was a saga and results have not stood up to scrutiny after it.
I'm saying all this as somebody who wants to see Wexford succeed, living here I want to see my children support a successful Wexford team. The summer of 19 was great but since has been just constant doom.
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1204 - 04/04/2024 11:12:34
2535547
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Afinestick96: "I wouldnt say Galway are less successful than us at senior . In the last 20 years they have been to 4 All Ireland finals winning 1. We havent been there since 96. They've won 3 Leinster championships since 2009 we've only won one. We havent beaten them since 96 in championship." I think he means less successful overall in history. The last stat is a bit of a red herring as they haven't beaten us that many times since 96. Since 2019 we have drawn 2, lost 2, although 1 of those losses was in 2020 when our lads prepared for the hurling championship by playing club championship football! For our other loss, last year, we were missing Chin and Damien Reck, our best forward and our best back, while other lads were playing despite not being fully fit.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12873 - 04/04/2024 11:21:48
2535553
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Afinestick96: "I wouldnt say Galway are less successful than us at senior . In the last 20 years they have been to 4 All Ireland finals winning 1. We havent been there since 96. They've won 3 Leinster championships since 2009 we've only won one. We havent beaten them since 96 in championship." They have fewer all Irelands than we have. A pretty simple metric but fact.
They weren't even winning all Irelands when they entered at the last four.
They've won 1 since they joined Leinster.
One more than us in that time but still not very impressive for a top county.
Record books go back further than 09
If qualifying for finals is a measure of success we had a wonderful period from 01-08 (which we didn't obviously, we only won one of them)
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2900 - 04/04/2024 12:08:05
2535570
Link
0
|
|
It doesn't matter what we did and when we did it and how we compare. Our record is dismal.
What matters is what we are doing now. Where are we at. As it stands, we might have a good minor team, a bad u20 team and a senior team who knows. We are not in great place, are we?
Everything else is just barstool talk. We need to be doing our talking on the pitch.
StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1754 - 04/04/2024 12:48:02
2535587
Link
0
|
|
Replying To ExiledInWex: "Nobody has criticised the players. I and most here are conscious of players and mental health etc having sons not much younger than some of these players. No player ever went out to hurl bad. There was enough of a nucleus of last years team that lost out to Offaly to say that it should form the heart of a decent team, or as a ground zero not a team to go out and be beaten out the gate.
But why shouldn't management be criticised? Message board or not. A big back room team in inter county costs a lot of money every night they train and questions need to be asked and answered. Nobody does inter county GAA for nothing any more. Everybody is on the take, so they have to be accountable.
This is not Tom, Dick and Harry over the U12 team giving their time freely.
You talk about a "defence coach" in Joyce, what was he at for the last 4 months if they concede 4-21 the first day out?
This is the big leagues and they had plenty of time to prepare a team to at least go out and compete. They can't just be given a free pass and I hope clubs ask real and honest questions about this appointment unless things turn around massively. The whole appointment was a saga and results have not stood up to scrutiny after it.
I'm saying all this as somebody who wants to see Wexford succeed, living here I want to see my children support a successful Wexford team. The summer of 19 was great but since has been just constant doom." Joyce's previous intercounty experience amounts to being involved with Kilkennys u15s in some capacity.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12873 - 04/04/2024 13:12:47
2535595
Link
0
|
|
Replying To StoreysTash: "It doesn't matter what we did and when we did it and how we compare. Our record is dismal.
What matters is what we are doing now. Where are we at. As it stands, we might have a good minor team, a bad u20 team and a senior team who knows. We are not in great place, are we?
Everything else is just barstool talk. We need to be doing our talking on the pitch." Last line is the one.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12873 - 04/04/2024 13:13:20
2535596
Link
0
|
|
Replying To StoreysTash: "It doesn't matter what we did and when we did it and how we compare. Our record is dismal.
What matters is what we are doing now. Where are we at. As it stands, we might have a good minor team, a bad u20 team and a senior team who knows. We are not in great place, are we?
Everything else is just barstool talk. We need to be doing our talking on the pitch." I agree with that.
I think the outlook at the moment is good.
We are unlikely to win anything this year.
We're building a new panel with some success.
1. Maintain division one status objective is achieved.
2. Finish at least third in Leinster. I'd be very hopeful in this regard.
Very much looking forward to 21st now. I'd expect a serious contest. A must win for us for a number of reasons.
It's expected that third is between us and Dublin.
We're due a win against them.
Just as important, we've underperformed against them in particular in 22 and 23.
I think we've a more balanced team than them overall but take nothing for granted.
Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 2900 - 04/04/2024 13:26:33
2535600
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Doylerwex: " Replying To StoreysTash: "It doesn't matter what we did and when we did it and how we compare. Our record is dismal.
What matters is what we are doing now. Where are we at. As it stands, we might have a good minor team, a bad u20 team and a senior team who knows. We are not in great place, are we?
Everything else is just barstool talk. We need to be doing our talking on the pitch." I agree with that. I think the outlook at the moment is good. We are unlikely to win anything this year. We're building a new panel with some success. 1. Maintain division one status objective is achieved. 2. Finish at least third in Leinster. I'd be very hopeful in this regard. Very much looking forward to 21st now. I'd expect a serious contest. A must win for us for a number of reasons. It's expected that third is between us and Dublin. We're due a win against them. Just as important, we've underperformed against them in particular in 22 and 23. I think we've a more balanced team than them overall but take nothing for granted."
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 327 - 04/04/2024 16:00:50
2535646
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Viking66: "There are the same broader structures as there were the last 2 years. The minor decoupling is a bit of a red herring. The lads up to the age at u20 this year played adult club last year. Most of these lads were in some class of Wexford squad the first half of last year, and the lads too young to play club adult played club minor, then they all played for their schools and colleges. The issues I have with management stem more from team rather than squad selection, and the positions some lads were selected to play in. And the shape of the team or team structure on the day.
I watched the game back last night on clubber to see if I'd seen things wrong from the stand on the day. I don't think I did. The warning signs of what was to come were there to see in the 1st quarter when it was level pegging. Kilkenny created 3 or 4 goal opportunities, yet we persisted largely with 3 men inside, which Kilkenny didn't, and no spare man at the back, or even further forwards in our own half, which they had. Their spare man got on loads of ball we played forwards, and our inside 3 were largely wasted as they got no ball. There was very little encouragement to them to work harder when we conceded the short puckout, so Kilkenny had plenty of space to bring the ball out without getting turned over. Lee Chin, who was sitting a few rows down in front of me, was the only person who seemed interested in this, and he shouted out to Luke Murphy his clubman a couple of times. Why did the management set the team up this way, why did they persist with it when the warning signs were there, and why weren't they offering more encouragement/advice from the sidelines? While there was a decent crowd it wasn't as if it was too noisy. I expected changes in set up at halftime but there weren't any. I watched the game with a lad I know on the Kilkenny County Board and he politely described our set up as "naive" and suggested at one point that maybe we were trying to keep our powder dry for the knock out stages. That's all well and good, but losing in that manner will not have done the players any good if that was the case.
As regards selection I heard rumours that Farrell wasn't selected due to something that happened at minor. I really, really hope that that isn't the case. Byrne had played midfield for that minor team, but has been an inside forward ever since, and a very good one at that. Simon Roche has been one of our best backs the last while, but was selected at centre forward, maybe because he had played as a forward at minor. If we had of selected Byrne as an inside forward but played him predominantly around the half forward line as a midfielder, with 2 other lads working hard inside, and played our other midfielder a little deeper sitting back either in front of our back 3, or around 6 so the 6 could sit deeper as Damien does for the Senior team, maybe had Farrell around the half forward line playing as he did when he eventually came on as a target for longer puckouts, Kilkenny would have had way less space around the middle, and less space to run at our fullback line. On the longer puckouts we didn't always have players stationed at the quarters for the breaking ball, which Kilkenny then won most of.
I know alot of the above is personal preference stuff, but senior intercounty and even club senior and Intermediate managers are setting up their teams along the lines of what I've proposed, it's the modern way, and seems to work pretty well. The Kilkenny u20 team set up along those lines as well btw. I didn't use the term "thrown to the wolves", but I do feel they let the players down somewhat. Maybe I'll go with the polite term "naive" and leave it at that. With lads like Whelan, Purcell, Chapman etc back, and maybe some selection and set up tweaks I'm still confident this panel of players can do well in the knockouts." Look back at the post I replied to, which wasn't from yourself.
It contains the exact phrase, "thrown to the wolves".
I stand over everything I said in that post. You make some interesting points about players, some oif which I broadly agree with, some I don't.
I don;t think the incident you referred to from three years ago has anything to do with selection this year. Bygones on all sides.
wendellgee (Wexford) - Posts: 29 - 04/04/2024 19:41:54
2535692
Link
0
|
|
Replying To wendellgee: "Look back at the post I replied to, which wasn't from yourself.
It contains the exact phrase, "thrown to the wolves".
I stand over everything I said in that post. You make some interesting points about players, some oif which I broadly agree with, some I don't.
I don;t think the incident you referred to from three years ago has anything to do with selection this year. Bygones on all sides." Wouldnt expect you to agree with everything I said. Sound that you agree with some of it. As I said in that post you replied to alot of it is personal preference stuff. There are numerous ways to set up a hurling team, none of them are right or wrong as such. Just the way the game went in the 1st half I was hoping to see some changes in set up in the 2nd half. And hopefully when management watch the videos of the game back, especially if they had a camera at one or both ends as they always should that showed the whole shape and movement of both teams as passages of play evolved, they will see where we went wrong. And we did go wrong, we could've lost that game by another 12 or 15 points if Kilkenny had of taken all their goal chances. Finally, great news that everyone has moved on from 3 years ago.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 12873 - 04/04/2024 20:24:27
2535699
Link
0
|
|
Some sensible things being said here and others that i wouldn't agree with. I agree that the standards should always be there and they should remain high.I was told kieran joyce is good friends with a member of the backroom team and they know each other from school so thats where he came out of. He took over graignamanagh this year but has very little coaching experience. He does have plenty of playing experience. Anyone looking at the match could see some of the problems so cohesively the management will have to take responsibility for this.
The management shouldn't be exempt from criticism. I see people after it giving out on wexford gaa twitter and they got blocked. The result cant be brushed under the carpet.
The only thing about this result is its not keeping with the last good number of years. When was the last time this kind of score was conceeded at u20.Maybe it was a combination of different things but from talking to a kk man at the match he said there was alot of hurt from last years defeat. They had this game eyed up for 12 months.We will see over the next few weeks how good both teams really are.Id expect alot of hard lessons were learnt in defeat and id be suprised if there isnt a reaction.
Every year is different at u20,some years better than others. This is still a development and bar the exception it usually takes another a 3 or 4 years to break into the senior team. Kk won the u20 two years ago and not one player starting for them in the league final 2 years later. Kk people will tell you the jury is out on that team, that drennan and clifford are a good bit away from consistently making the team.
Criticism and standards are good in a county and shouldn't be settling for 2nd or 3rd best.Get out and get behind these chaps at u17 and u20. They wont be superstars next year but they could be very important players in 4 or 5 years time.
These lads will be the future. We already spoke about a number of leaders in the twilight of their career. Rossi is no fool and he knows lads will be stepping away soon and has started the process of introducing younger lads.
Slowandshortsighted (UK) - Posts: 39 - 05/04/2024 00:08:51
2535728
Link
0
|
|
Have the seniors any challenge game this weekend? Would imagine it's the last opportunity to get a game with championship in 2 weeks
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 327 - 05/04/2024 11:24:38
2535789
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Doylerwex: " Replying To StoreysTash: "It doesn't matter what we did and when we did it and how we compare. Our record is dismal.
What matters is what we are doing now. Where are we at. As it stands, we might have a good minor team, a bad u20 team and a senior team who knows. We are not in great place, are we?
Everything else is just barstool talk. We need to be doing our talking on the pitch." I agree with that. I think the outlook at the moment is good. We are unlikely to win anything this year. We're building a new panel with some success. 1. Maintain division one status objective is achieved. 2. Finish at least third in Leinster. I'd be very hopeful in this regard. Very much looking forward to 21st now. I'd expect a serious contest. A must win for us for a number of reasons. It's expected that third is between us and Dublin. We're due a win against them. Just as important, we've underperformed against them in particular in 22 and 23. I think we've a more balanced team than them overall but take nothing for granted."
Is there any news on the injury front for Wexford?
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1204 - 05/04/2024 11:42:33
2535792
Link
0
|
|
Replying To ExiledInWex: " Replying To Doylerwex: "[quote=StoreysTash: "It doesn't matter what we did and when we did it and how we compare. Our record is dismal.
What matters is what we are doing now. Where are we at. As it stands, we might have a good minor team, a bad u20 team and a senior team who knows. We are not in great place, are we?
Everything else is just barstool talk. We need to be doing our talking on the pitch." I agree with that. I think the outlook at the moment is good. We are unlikely to win anything this year. We're building a new panel with some success. 1. Maintain division one status objective is achieved. 2. Finish at least third in Leinster. I'd be very hopeful in this regard. Very much looking forward to 21st now. I'd expect a serious contest. A must win for us for a number of reasons. It's expected that third is between us and Dublin. We're due a win against them. Just as important, we've underperformed against them in particular in 22 and 23. I think we've a more balanced team than them overall but take nothing for granted."
Is there any news on the injury front for Wexford?"]Chin is back in full training. Dee might be out until club championship
Afinestick96 (Wexford) - Posts: 327 - 05/04/2024 12:33:57
2535804
Link
0
|
|
Replying To Slowandshortsighted: "Some sensible things being said here and others that i wouldn't agree with. I agree that the standards should always be there and they should remain high.I was told kieran joyce is good friends with a member of the backroom team and they know each other from school so thats where he came out of. He took over graignamanagh this year but has very little coaching experience. He does have plenty of playing experience. Anyone looking at the match could see some of the problems so cohesively the management will have to take responsibility for this.
The management shouldn't be exempt from criticism. I see people after it giving out on wexford gaa twitter and they got blocked. The result cant be brushed under the carpet.
The only thing about this result is its not keeping with the last good number of years. When was the last time this kind of score was conceeded at u20.Maybe it was a combination of different things but from talking to a kk man at the match he said there was alot of hurt from last years defeat. They had this game eyed up for 12 months.We will see over the next few weeks how good both teams really are.Id expect alot of hard lessons were learnt in defeat and id be suprised if there isnt a reaction.
Every year is different at u20,some years better than others. This is still a development and bar the exception it usually takes another a 3 or 4 years to break into the senior team. Kk won the u20 two years ago and not one player starting for them in the league final 2 years later. Kk people will tell you the jury is out on that team, that drennan and clifford are a good bit away from consistently making the team.
Criticism and standards are good in a county and shouldn't be settling for 2nd or 3rd best.Get out and get behind these chaps at u17 and u20. They wont be superstars next year but they could be very important players in 4 or 5 years time.
These lads will be the future. We already spoke about a number of leaders in the twilight of their career. Rossi is no fool and he knows lads will be stepping away soon and has started the process of introducing younger lads." They've a habit of that with the Twitter account, know someone who was blocked who just asked why there was no updates on the score of a county minor football game.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 05/04/2024 13:14:23
2535812
Link
1
|
|
Good news on Chins hamstring, he's putting in full sessions with the squad this past few weeks and feeling fit and raring to go. Hopefully he has no more set backs
WEXILE_AGAIN (Wexford) - Posts: 19 - 05/04/2024 13:37:57
2535819
Link
0
|