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Can Gaelic Football (Handball?) Be Saved?

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Replying To sligo joe: "50,000 games, a silly remark, my point is going to inter County games across 5 or 6 decades the level of entertainment is as high or low as ever. The demands and scrutiny are higher now. Watch some of the old games, really low skill levels compared to today." You are making some valid points. There have been a lot of good semi finals and finals (and to a lesser extent quarterfinals) over the last 10 to 15 years or so. Some club football is a bit of a mess with teams implementing defensive structures in a very cynical manner probably because they are coached by limited management teams with expectations above their station. Some weaker teams do have to set up to not take a drubbing then also. I do really think at the top inter county level the issue is not playing each other enough. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4524 - 06/03/2024 20:48:17 2530135 Link
Replying To Kickitout: "Im not so sure If football rules need massive changes in my opinion Thars part of problem is that for number of years they change rules for the sake of it the forward mark must be the stupidest thing ever it's rubbish kick a ball 20 meters into players chest and u get rewarded with a free shot at a point get rid ,, I don't hear hurling people on about the amour of hand passing actually throws in hurling it's just as bad as football but nothing being done , in football if u get ball from goalie u can't give it back from kick out in hurling they hit it 2 full back and he hand passes straight back to goalie no one says a word I just think football people are 2 quick to give out about everything, maybe if majority of football matches were played from April to sept in good pitched it might help ball to be moved quicker not majorly of matches played jan to April ,, if they keep messing with rules and cards then players will eventually stop playing it's a simple game made difficult by people in power" Game less appealing to play as using your skills are being strangled out of the games with blankets. Minor tampering with the rules to achieve minor impact will be a waste of time. Hurling a totally different game, the game moves forward and backwards much quicker. Any issues are minor compared to football. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1413 - 06/03/2024 21:39:19 2530139 Link
Replying To sligo joe: "50,000 games, a silly remark, my point is going to inter County games across 5 or 6 decades the level of entertainment is as high or low as ever. The demands and scrutiny are higher now. Watch some of the old games, really low skill levels compared to today." In last 20 years- In rugby preparation levels hugely increased and spectacle hugely increased. In hurling preparation levels hugely increased and spectacle hugely increased. In football preparation levels hugely increased and spectacle decreased. I say this based on how the crowds at games are quiet and way less engaged by what they are watching. With the preparation time put in now compared to 20 years ago it is amazing that most people would not agree that spectacle in Gaelic football has not hugely increased. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1413 - 06/03/2024 22:01:57 2530142 Link
Replying To bdbuddah: "Game less appealing to play as using your skills are being strangled out of the games with blankets. Minor tampering with the rules to achieve minor impact will be a waste of time. Hurling a totally different game, the game moves forward and backwards much quicker. Any issues are minor compared to football." Comparisons are odious. We are blessed to have two great sports that do an immense amount for the people of this country from both a social and a sporting point of view. What are your recommendations for major change? I personally believe that the game should be allowed to evolve with minor changes. Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6178 - 06/03/2024 23:28:55 2530149 Link
Should try making it 13 a side, and you have to have at least 2 players in each half of the field at all times. Linesmen can monitor the 2 players. May cause some hassle at club league games, but like everything teams would get used to it eventually. hopballref (Galway) - Posts: 430 - 07/03/2024 08:09:49 2530152 Link
Replying To Greengrass: "Comparisons are odious. We are blessed to have two great sports that do an immense amount for the people of this country from both a social and a sporting point of view. What are your recommendations for major change? I personally believe that the game should be allowed to evolve with minor changes." But in recent years the game has not evolved with minor changes, the game has changed enormously and away from what the character of what the game always was. A change along the lines of making players line up in their positions for each kickout I think would work (the teams already line up in positions for kickouts). I can't picture being able to implement a rule like making a set number of players stay in position for entire game working in a fluid sport like gaelic football but should work if confined to kickouts. There are so many kickouts in a game a blanket would be hard to get in place. Even if teams were able to get players back I don't see them being able to get as many back as presently happens. I think accurate kicking/ moving the ball into forwards making runs would be hugely incentivised. Any rule changes would have to be trialled at maybe colleges level before being brought in for the entire game. The above is just the basis of an idea. If someone else comes up with a clever idea that achieves a similar purpose (bringing the game back to being a more direct game with ball moved much more purposefully and with space for players to use their skills) that's fine also. If we only get minor changes which attempts to only change the way the game is played in a minor way the committee will be a waste of time. If this is got wrong gaelic football's popularity in the future could be damaged badly. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1413 - 07/03/2024 09:39:15 2530161 Link
What will the penalty be if a team in the fluid course of a game is found not to have the required no. of players in the other half? Similarly if everyone had to line up in their positions? Will there be marks on the pitch where each player has to stand? Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2295 - 07/03/2024 10:32:27 2530167 Link
Replying To Seanfanbocht: "What will the penalty be if a team in the fluid course of a game is found not to have the required no. of players in the other half? Similarly if everyone had to line up in their positions? Will there be marks on the pitch where each player has to stand?" How many lines have we got on a GAA pitch, it would be very easy to define a full back/ full forward area, a half back/ half forward area and a midfield area. It should be easy to see if a team has 3 players inside say the 20m lone (this could be the full back/ full forward area for a rule like this). If a referee missed minor infringements of this it wouldn't be a big issue. For a rule like this blatant infringements should be easy to spot for a referee, this would be enough to stop a team putting a blanket in place at kickout time. Players would adapt to a rule like this once it was in place for a while and they knew there was a penalty for infringements. The above is a principle of what a rule could be based on, the committee could put more flesh on the bones as to what the penalties for breaking it could be, once the penalties were severe enough that it wouldn't be worth teams while breaking it. If not a rule based on specific player positions on the field a variant of this could be implemented stating a minimum no of players in a specific area of the pitch for kick outs. For me kickouts are a good place to implement a rule based on forcing teams to keep a number of players in an area of the pitch as they are a frequent stoppage in play in every game so easier to implement. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1413 - 07/03/2024 12:26:33 2530183 Link
Replying To hopballref: "Should try making it 13 a side, and you have to have at least 2 players in each half of the field at all times. Linesmen can monitor the 2 players. May cause some hassle at club league games, but like everything teams would get used to it eventually." Nah. Footballers get sent from the field for very little these days. Two sendings off be they for black, two yellows or a straight red would reduce the game to farcical levels. Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6178 - 07/03/2024 12:38:58 2530185 Link
Replying To bdbuddah: "How many lines have we got on a GAA pitch, it would be very easy to define a full back/ full forward area, a half back/ half forward area and a midfield area. It should be easy to see if a team has 3 players inside say the 20m lone (this could be the full back/ full forward area for a rule like this). If a referee missed minor infringements of this it wouldn't be a big issue. For a rule like this blatant infringements should be easy to spot for a referee, this would be enough to stop a team putting a blanket in place at kickout time. Players would adapt to a rule like this once it was in place for a while and they knew there was a penalty for infringements. The above is a principle of what a rule could be based on, the committee could put more flesh on the bones as to what the penalties for breaking it could be, once the penalties were severe enough that it wouldn't be worth teams while breaking it. If not a rule based on specific player positions on the field a variant of this could be implemented stating a minimum no of players in a specific area of the pitch for kick outs. For me kickouts are a good place to implement a rule based on forcing teams to keep a number of players in an area of the pitch as they are a frequent stoppage in play in every game so easier to implement." I really don't like this to be honest. Football can be a bit boring but I think this will just make it a lot less dynamic. Not all developments in the game have been bad. More players are involved in all phases of the game than they were 20 years ago say. This would set that back massively. I think the focus needs to be on teams not being allowed to hold possession for so long and waiting to get into the shooting zone is an issue. Playing the ball back behind the halfway line after entering the attacking 45 would be interesting. Also not being allowed to play it back into your defensive 45 could be interesting. Need to encourage teams to compete in that middle third which can be a bit of a dead zone. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4524 - 07/03/2024 14:35:06 2530197 Link
I still think though that when top teams face one another the games are mostly good quality. There have been a couple of so so Kerry v Dublin finals but outside of that how many times have games between the likes of Mayo, Dublin, Kerry and to a lesser extent Tyrone, Monaghan, Galway and Donegal served up very good quality matches. Those 2nd 4 have maybe struggled against Dublin but not really against Mayo or Kerry. Any team with ambitions of winning the All Ireland has to be able to go and win the ball back, it's enough incentive to get them to try to play. It's when a team has no hope and are happy to keep the score down that the issues arise. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4524 - 07/03/2024 15:00:59 2530203 Link
Replying To ecad123: "No trying to think outside the box, just seeing if there is a way to reward good long kick passing and catching, rather than just the keep ball hand passing game!" Rather than "rewarding", how about a kick "requirement" - a defence must kick pass across the defensive 45/65 to midfield OR both 65s instead? omahant (USA) - Posts: 3242 - 08/03/2024 01:51:28 2530250 Link
Replying To omahant: "Rather than "rewarding", how about a kick "requirement" - a defence must kick pass across the defensive 45/65 to midfield OR both 65s instead?" How about stop messing with the rules… bin the mark , black card and taking frees from the hand that can be scored… You can bring in whatever rule you like but the over paid coaches will find away around it I guarantee… Football is now an unwatchable mess and that's purely down to coaching… Who in their right minds would think that giving the opponent guaranteed possession from a kick out would be beneficial to your team yet that's what's going on all over the country at all levels… bonkers stuff..! ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3834 - 08/03/2024 10:24:23 2530277 Link
Replying To ForeverBlue2: "How about stop messing with the rules… bin the mark , black card and taking frees from the hand that can be scored… You can bring in whatever rule you like but the over paid coaches will find away around it I guarantee… Football is now an unwatchable mess and that's purely down to coaching… Who in their right minds would think that giving the opponent guaranteed possession from a kick out would be beneficial to your team yet that's what's going on all over the country at all levels… bonkers stuff..!" Football is an unwatchable mess. Overstatement of the year. TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8384 - 08/03/2024 11:18:42 2530289 Link
Replying To Whammo86: "I really don't like this to be honest. Football can be a bit boring but I think this will just make it a lot less dynamic. Not all developments in the game have been bad. More players are involved in all phases of the game than they were 20 years ago say. This would set that back massively. I think the focus needs to be on teams not being allowed to hold possession for so long and waiting to get into the shooting zone is an issue. Playing the ball back behind the halfway line after entering the attacking 45 would be interesting. Also not being allowed to play it back into your defensive 45 could be interesting. Need to encourage teams to compete in that middle third which can be a bit of a dead zone." I would see more players giving and receiving uncontested handpassing a negative. One thing I've noticed at adult level club first teams is that there are more naturally uncoordinated type players, lads who are capable of jogging up and down the pitch but have little natural football ability, on teams. I'm not saying these type players make up most of the team, just you know of more lads like this on teams. Years ago most would have probably been playing with the club second team. Often more naturally coordinated players who years ago would have been ahead of them in the pecking order are now behind them (or more likely have stopped playing). bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1413 - 08/03/2024 11:36:30 2530299 Link
If football is to be saved; there needs to a change of focus and less influence from coaches and background teams. I've watch matches at both club and county level over the last twenty years and I've come to the conclusion that a player who is well conditioned will be picked over a player with good ability on the ball. I've read extensively that players are better today than in previous years but better in what way? Yes, players are extremely fit and well conditioned. Players are adapt at hand passing and moving the ball around but are players better at foot passing? Are they better at scoring? I would say no. Not because they don't have ability but because these skills are not focused upon. Even the top teams like Kerry; are dependent on one or two forwards and if these forwards are kept quiet then there is no one to step up in their absence; this isn't just confined to Kerry, by the way. In the modern game; half forwards are by and large ball carriers as oppose to finishers, based upon what I have witnessed in recent years. I hope the new committee can devise a rule or change to the mentality whereby the ball is moved quicker and the blanket defense is dismantled. I don't envy the committee its job as to bring about some change won't be easy. wicklowsupport (Wicklow) - Posts: 2102 - 08/03/2024 12:17:17 2530306 Link
Replying To bdbuddah: "I would see more players giving and receiving uncontested handpassing a negative. One thing I've noticed at adult level club first teams is that there are more naturally uncoordinated type players, lads who are capable of jogging up and down the pitch but have little natural football ability, on teams. I'm not saying these type players make up most of the team, just you know of more lads like this on teams. Years ago most would have probably been playing with the club second team. Often more naturally coordinated players who years ago would have been ahead of them in the pecking order are now behind them (or more likely have stopped playing)." I'll never defend uncontested hand passing (to be honest though backwards kick passing is at least just as bad) , I just don't think all developments in the game are negative. The focus then has to be to get more incentive for teams to push out and play. The more I think of it teams no being able to play back into their own 45 makes sense as it'd encourage a proactive press. Whammo86 (Antrim) - Posts: 4524 - 08/03/2024 13:19:51 2530310 Link
Replying To TheFlaker: "Football is an unwatchable mess. Overstatement of the year." What else would you call it…. Maybe a snore fest… but it is certainly in no way entertaining anymore…. ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3834 - 08/03/2024 13:26:11 2530312 Link
Replying To wicklowsupport: "If football is to be saved; there needs to a change of focus and less influence from coaches and background teams. I've watch matches at both club and county level over the last twenty years and I've come to the conclusion that a player who is well conditioned will be picked over a player with good ability on the ball. I've read extensively that players are better today than in previous years but better in what way? Yes, players are extremely fit and well conditioned. Players are adapt at hand passing and moving the ball around but are players better at foot passing? Are they better at scoring? I would say no. Not because they don't have ability but because these skills are not focused upon. Even the top teams like Kerry; are dependent on one or two forwards and if these forwards are kept quiet then there is no one to step up in their absence; this isn't just confined to Kerry, by the way. In the modern game; half forwards are by and large ball carriers as oppose to finishers, based upon what I have witnessed in recent years. I hope the new committee can devise a rule or change to the mentality whereby the ball is moved quicker and the blanket defense is dismantled. I don't envy the committee its job as to bring about some change won't be easy." On club teams anyway it is the way in which the game has become about possession has led to the increased influence of the manager. In the era of possession football it is easier to justify paying a manager X per session and easier for the manager to look for more sessions per week when they will talk about focusing on setting up right. A side benefit of moving the game back towards a direct style could be decreased costs associated with preparing adult teams. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1413 - 08/03/2024 14:03:10 2530318 Link
Replying To ForeverBlue2: "What else would you call it…. Maybe a snore fest… but it is certainly in no way entertaining anymore…." The latter end of the championship is brilliant and has been for years. That's all forgotten about in every discussion. TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8384 - 08/03/2024 14:37:07 2530324 Link