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Replying To KillingFields: "Or the players could just hold off on celebrating and train foe the game and celebrate the win later in the season when more appropriate.
Just keep training and the lovers don't need weeks to luck wounds. Getting back training and playing is more than appropriate to try link wounds than nothing" That is a typical statement from a strong hurling county supporter to a supporter of a weaker county trying to improve their lot. How in God's name could you ask a county who have just won their " All Ireland" to not celebrate & keep training straight away for a game they seriously underdogs for???? The preliminary q/t final is a bonus but not the destination. Winning the championship is the only goal in town. The point I was making is just give them a chance to prepare properly for the bigger team coming. Imagine Brian Dowling telling the Kildare lads their week that their was to be no celebration of their win. They have just recorded the biggest win ever for Kildare hurling & I hope they out enjoying to the fullest. I really think the top counties haven't a clue what goes on in the weaker counties & like RTE just pay it lip service
carlo (Carlow) - Posts: 273 - 10/06/2025 17:45:39
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Replying To KillingFields: "Or the players could just hold off on celebrating and train foe the game and celebrate the win later in the season when more appropriate.
Just keep training and the lovers don't need weeks to luck wounds. Getting back training and playing is more than appropriate to try link wounds than nothing" Yes because that's going to happen...
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2390 - 10/06/2025 18:22:30
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Derek Kent is very eager to scrap the preliminary quarter-finals. Kildare, Carlow, Laois and Westmeath should demand an expanded Leinster championship instead.
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8929 - 11/06/2025 13:07:30
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Replying To carlo: "That is a typical statement from a strong hurling county supporter to a supporter of a weaker county trying to improve their lot. How in God's name could you ask a county who have just won their " All Ireland" to not celebrate & keep training straight away for a game they seriously underdogs for???? The preliminary q/t final is a bonus but not the destination. Winning the championship is the only goal in town. The point I was making is just give them a chance to prepare properly for the bigger team coming. Imagine Brian Dowling telling the Kildare lads their week that their was to be no celebration of their win. They have just recorded the biggest win ever for Kildare hurling & I hope they out enjoying to the fullest. I really think the top counties haven't a clue what goes on in the weaker counties & like RTE just pay it lip service" With all due respect, saying "Winning the championship is the only goal in town" is an argument in itself for ending the direct link between the Joe McDonagh Cup and the same year's Liam McCarthy.
It's a link that doesn't exist anywhere else. I've said before how I can think of no other sport where the winners of a secondary competition are springboarded into the latter stages of the primary competition in the same year, after some of those who began in the primary competition are already eliminated. Nobody else could give an example either.
Nor does it happen anywhere else in GAA:
- Winners of this year's Christy Ring didn't go into some stage of this year's Joe McDonagh
- Winners of this year's NIckey Rackard didn't go into this year's Christy Ring
- Winners of this year's Lory Meagher didn't go into this year's Nickey Rackard
- Winners of this year's Tailteann Cup won't go into this year's Sam Maguire
- Winners of this year's intermediate club championship in Carlow, Wexford, or anywhere else won't go into this year's senior club championship.
As I've said before, would be far better to let winners of the Joe McDonagh Cup go out on the high of winning that cup, and have 10 months to prepare properly for testing themselves against somebody from the top grade, and let the losers of the McDonagh Cup Final go out on just that disappointment, instead of more than likely shipping a heavy beating a week later.
As also previously stated, leaving aside the one shock victory by a McDonagh Cup side (Laois) over a top tier side (Dublin), the average margin of defeat in all those matches has been 19 points.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2944 - 11/06/2025 14:26:14
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Replying To Pikeman96: "With all due respect, saying "Winning the championship is the only goal in town" is an argument in itself for ending the direct link between the Joe McDonagh Cup and the same year's Liam McCarthy.
It's a link that doesn't exist anywhere else. I've said before how I can think of no other sport where the winners of a secondary competition are springboarded into the latter stages of the primary competition in the same year, after some of those who began in the primary competition are already eliminated. Nobody else could give an example either.
Nor does it happen anywhere else in GAA:
- Winners of this year's Christy Ring didn't go into some stage of this year's Joe McDonagh
- Winners of this year's NIckey Rackard didn't go into this year's Christy Ring
- Winners of this year's Lory Meagher didn't go into this year's Nickey Rackard
- Winners of this year's Tailteann Cup won't go into this year's Sam Maguire
- Winners of this year's intermediate club championship in Carlow, Wexford, or anywhere else won't go into this year's senior club championship.
As I've said before, would be far better to let winners of the Joe McDonagh Cup go out on the high of winning that cup, and have 10 months to prepare properly for testing themselves against somebody from the top grade, and let the losers of the McDonagh Cup Final go out on just that disappointment, instead of more than likely shipping a heavy beating a week later.
As also previously stated, leaving aside the one shock victory by a McDonagh Cup side (Laois) over a top tier side (Dublin), the average margin of defeat in all those matches has been 19 points." There's a nice bit of talk about this game around Kildare. I personally feel it's good for the promotion of the game here.
Yes - it's likely a bridge too far, but there will be a big crowd in Newbridge all the same.
The Munster runner up hasn't lost to the 3rd place Leinster team / Tailteann team since the group format was brought in. I would say there's a better chance if Kildare beating Dublin on Saturday than either team being Limerick.
It's not really broken so doesn't need to be fixed.
brianb (Kildare) - Posts: 461 - 11/06/2025 15:01:34
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Replying To legendzxix: "Derek Kent is very eager to scrap the preliminary quarter-finals. Kildare, Carlow, Laois and Westmeath should demand an expanded Leinster championship instead." Most of us in Leinster never wanted those counties excluded in the 1st place. They are Leinster counties. They certainly shouldn't be excluded for the sake of other counties from other provinces.
And that's not because I dislike those counties, I lived in Antrim and have followed their fortunes ever since, and I really hope Galway win the next time out. Tbh of all the top tier counties left if Limerick don't win the AI my next preference would be Galway.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16292 - 11/06/2025 15:03:43
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Replying To Pikeman96: "Methinks you're clutching at straws with your last line. Nobody's in doubt that the Liam McCarty is the primary competition, the Joe McDonagh is the secondary one, and the Christy Ring is the tertiary.
Anyway, consider some other examples:
In soccer, the Europa League thing that Manchester United are still involved in. The winners get a spot in the following season's Champions League. They aren't parachuted into the latter stages of the Champions League in the same season.
Or closer to home, the Tailteann Cup. It's not run off early so that the winners can join the Sam Maguire series at the preliminary quarter-final stages. Instead, the winners wait until the following season before taking their place in the primary competition.
Leaving aside the Laois victory (by two points) over Dublin in 2019, facts are:
- average winning margin of McCarthy Cup side over Joe McDonagh winners = 13.5 points
- average winning margin of McCarthy Cup side over Joe McDonagh runners-up = 20 points
Again, I say let the McDonagh Cup finalists finish their campaign either on the high of winning it and looking forward to promotion the next year, or dealing with just the one disappointment of losing that final.
Little to be gained by making them go out again a week later and more than likely losing by double digits." You are conveniently forgetting that ALL participants in this year's Tailteann Cup have ALREADY participated in the various provincial Senior championships this year.
Furthermore the link between the Joe McDonagh Cup and the McCarthy Cup were part of the motion that set up the McDonagh Cup in the first instance. Had that link not been included in the motion it may not have been carried.
MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1113 - 11/06/2025 15:09:46
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@MillerX - and by the same token, you're forgetting that it's still the case that neither of this year's McDonagh Cup finalists will have competed in this year's provincial senior championships.
Nor do you address the other points about how this year's Christy Ring winners don't enter the Joe McDonagh, this year's Nickey Rackard winners don't enter the Christy Ring, etc.
Am well aware of why the link exists in the first place. But I think time and experience has shown that the link doesn't actually serve any great purpose, and that it's time for a change.
For what it's worth, I'd have no objection to that change being all the Joe McDonagh Cup teams participating in the Leinster Championship in the first place. Two groups of four or five would be an option. And then, if they're good enough, and if they really deserve it, they'll have a chance at making the All-Ireland series anyway.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2944 - 11/06/2025 15:57:42
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Replying To MillerX: " Replying To Pikeman96: "Methinks you're clutching at straws with your last line. Nobody's in doubt that the Liam McCarty is the primary competition, the Joe McDonagh is the secondary one, and the Christy Ring is the tertiary.
Anyway, consider some other examples:
In soccer, the Europa League thing that Manchester United are still involved in. The winners get a spot in the following season's Champions League. They aren't parachuted into the latter stages of the Champions League in the same season.
Or closer to home, the Tailteann Cup. It's not run off early so that the winners can join the Sam Maguire series at the preliminary quarter-final stages. Instead, the winners wait until the following season before taking their place in the primary competition.
Leaving aside the Laois victory (by two points) over Dublin in 2019, facts are:
- average winning margin of McCarthy Cup side over Joe McDonagh winners = 13.5 points
- average winning margin of McCarthy Cup side over Joe McDonagh runners-up = 20 points
Again, I say let the McDonagh Cup finalists finish their campaign either on the high of winning it and looking forward to promotion the next year, or dealing with just the one disappointment of losing that final.
Little to be gained by making them go out again a week later and more than likely losing by double digits." You are conveniently forgetting that ALL participants in this year's Tailteann Cup have ALREADY participated in the various provincial Senior championships this year. Furthermore the link between the Joe McDonagh Cup and the McCarthy Cup were part of the motion that set up the McDonagh Cup in the first instance. Had that link not been included in the motion it may not have been carried."
Then an AI series with 2 round robin groups of 5. Top 2 in each group through to AISFs. Consisting of the 10 top placed teams from the League pyramid. This would add meaning to the League. And no League finals.
This would actually mean we could have slightly longer breaks between Championship games for most teams for recovery.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16292 - 11/06/2025 16:09:03
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Replying To Viking66: " Replying To MillerX: "[quote=Pikeman96: "Methinks you're clutching at straws with your last line. Nobody's in doubt that the Liam McCarty is the primary competition, the Joe McDonagh is the secondary one, and the Christy Ring is the tertiary.
Anyway, consider some other examples:
In soccer, the Europa League thing that Manchester United are still involved in. The winners get a spot in the following season's Champions League. They aren't parachuted into the latter stages of the Champions League in the same season.
Or closer to home, the Tailteann Cup. It's not run off early so that the winners can join the Sam Maguire series at the preliminary quarter-final stages. Instead, the winners wait until the following season before taking their place in the primary competition.
Leaving aside the Laois victory (by two points) over Dublin in 2019, facts are:
- average winning margin of McCarthy Cup side over Joe McDonagh winners = 13.5 points
- average winning margin of McCarthy Cup side over Joe McDonagh runners-up = 20 points
Again, I say let the McDonagh Cup finalists finish their campaign either on the high of winning it and looking forward to promotion the next year, or dealing with just the one disappointment of losing that final.
Little to be gained by making them go out again a week later and more than likely losing by double digits." You are conveniently forgetting that ALL participants in this year's Tailteann Cup have ALREADY participated in the various provincial Senior championships this year. Furthermore the link between the Joe McDonagh Cup and the McCarthy Cup were part of the motion that set up the McDonagh Cup in the first instance. Had that link not been included in the motion it may not have been carried."
Then an AI series with 2 round robin groups of 5. Top 2 in each group through to AISFs. Consisting of the 10 top placed teams from the League pyramid. This would add meaning to the League. And no League finals.
This would actually mean we could have slightly longer breaks between Championship games for most teams for recovery."]Munster SHC as is = a lot of €s
Seanfanbocht (Roscommon) - Posts: 2406 - 11/06/2025 16:26:04
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Replying To Pikeman96: "With all due respect, saying "Winning the championship is the only goal in town" is an argument in itself for ending the direct link between the Joe McDonagh Cup and the same year's Liam McCarthy.
It's a link that doesn't exist anywhere else. I've said before how I can think of no other sport where the winners of a secondary competition are springboarded into the latter stages of the primary competition in the same year, after some of those who began in the primary competition are already eliminated. Nobody else could give an example either.
Nor does it happen anywhere else in GAA:
- Winners of this year's Christy Ring didn't go into some stage of this year's Joe McDonagh
- Winners of this year's NIckey Rackard didn't go into this year's Christy Ring
- Winners of this year's Lory Meagher didn't go into this year's Nickey Rackard
- Winners of this year's Tailteann Cup won't go into this year's Sam Maguire
- Winners of this year's intermediate club championship in Carlow, Wexford, or anywhere else won't go into this year's senior club championship.
As I've said before, would be far better to let winners of the Joe McDonagh Cup go out on the high of winning that cup, and have 10 months to prepare properly for testing themselves against somebody from the top grade, and let the losers of the McDonagh Cup Final go out on just that disappointment, instead of more than likely shipping a heavy beating a week later.
As also previously stated, leaving aside the one shock victory by a McDonagh Cup side (Laois) over a top tier side (Dublin), the average margin of defeat in all those matches has been 19 points." Its only a runout for the third placed teams, nothing else.
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2390 - 11/06/2025 16:34:25
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If Laois and Carlow are ok with being part of a Leinster 8 - why shut them out?
legendzxix (Kerry) - Posts: 8929 - 11/06/2025 16:43:58
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Replying To Bon: "Its only a runout for the third placed teams, nothing else." Surprised at your pessimism, Bon. Kildare should give Dublin a decent test.
Actually, I would continue to allow the winner of McDonagh the play-off - but have it against the third placed Leinster team every year.
burdizzo (Laois) - Posts: 12 - 11/06/2025 16:54:05
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I think once you have 4 competitions in hurling you start to pigeonhole teams. They only become worried about the opposition in their own cup and that's very limiting. Teams always learn when they play better teams (even when they get beat) and that's how they improve. The more this happens the better so it a no to removing the link.
We've seen it in the FA cup in the UK when lower league teams punch above their weight. Its a great way to bring teams and players on.
I hope a four cup competition never comes into football for the same reason
ponger (Cavan) - Posts: 574 - 11/06/2025 17:13:33
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Replying To Seanfanbocht: " Replying To Viking66: "[quote=MillerX: "[quote=Pikeman96: "Methinks you're clutching at straws with your last line. Nobody's in doubt that the Liam McCarty is the primary competition, the Joe McDonagh is the secondary one, and the Christy Ring is the tertiary.
Anyway, consider some other examples:
In soccer, the Europa League thing that Manchester United are still involved in. The winners get a spot in the following season's Champions League. They aren't parachuted into the latter stages of the Champions League in the same season.
Or closer to home, the Tailteann Cup. It's not run off early so that the winners can join the Sam Maguire series at the preliminary quarter-final stages. Instead, the winners wait until the following season before taking their place in the primary competition.
Leaving aside the Laois victory (by two points) over Dublin in 2019, facts are:
- average winning margin of McCarthy Cup side over Joe McDonagh winners = 13.5 points
- average winning margin of McCarthy Cup side over Joe McDonagh runners-up = 20 points
Again, I say let the McDonagh Cup finalists finish their campaign either on the high of winning it and looking forward to promotion the next year, or dealing with just the one disappointment of losing that final.
Little to be gained by making them go out again a week later and more than likely losing by double digits." You are conveniently forgetting that ALL participants in this year's Tailteann Cup have ALREADY participated in the various provincial Senior championships this year. Furthermore the link between the Joe McDonagh Cup and the McCarthy Cup were part of the motion that set up the McDonagh Cup in the first instance. Had that link not been included in the motion it may not have been carried."
Then an AI series with 2 round robin groups of 5. Top 2 in each group through to AISFs. Consisting of the 10 top placed teams from the League pyramid. This would add meaning to the League. And no League finals.
This would actually mean we could have slightly longer breaks between Championship games for most teams for recovery."]Munster SHC as is = a lot of €s"]So too would an AI round robin series. There'd be plenty of all-Munster games in it.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16292 - 11/06/2025 17:31:15
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Replying To Viking66: " Replying To Seanfanbocht: "[quote=Viking66: "[quote=MillerX: "[quote=Pikeman96: "Methinks you're clutching at straws with your last line. Nobody's in doubt that the Liam McCarty is the primary competition, the Joe McDonagh is the secondary one, and the Christy Ring is the tertiary.
Anyway, consider some other examples:
In soccer, the Europa League thing that Manchester United are still involved in. The winners get a spot in the following season's Champions League. They aren't parachuted into the latter stages of the Champions League in the same season.
Or closer to home, the Tailteann Cup. It's not run off early so that the winners can join the Sam Maguire series at the preliminary quarter-final stages. Instead, the winners wait until the following season before taking their place in the primary competition.
Leaving aside the Laois victory (by two points) over Dublin in 2019, facts are:
- average winning margin of McCarthy Cup side over Joe McDonagh winners = 13.5 points
- average winning margin of McCarthy Cup side over Joe McDonagh runners-up = 20 points
Again, I say let the McDonagh Cup finalists finish their campaign either on the high of winning it and looking forward to promotion the next year, or dealing with just the one disappointment of losing that final.
Little to be gained by making them go out again a week later and more than likely losing by double digits." You are conveniently forgetting that ALL participants in this year's Tailteann Cup have ALREADY participated in the various provincial Senior championships this year. Furthermore the link between the Joe McDonagh Cup and the McCarthy Cup were part of the motion that set up the McDonagh Cup in the first instance. Had that link not been included in the motion it may not have been carried."
Then an AI series with 2 round robin groups of 5. Top 2 in each group through to AISFs. Consisting of the 10 top placed teams from the League pyramid. This would add meaning to the League. And no League finals.
This would actually mean we could have slightly longer breaks between Championship games for most teams for recovery."]Munster SHC as is = a lot of €s"]So too would an AI round robin series. There'd be plenty of all-Munster games in it."]I was the first to say this but the path to the McCarthy will be there and should be by winning your way up to the next level first. Firstly that team should prove that they are better than the McDonagh by at least two consecutive final appearances. Then when promoted giving them more than one year to adjust to the McCarty level. This is not to punish them but give a better chance to be competitive. Thus up and down is counter productive. Avoiding the 30 point beating. In the present game the elite teams can be beaten by 10 or more teams.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3108 - 11/06/2025 19:15:00
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Replying To burdizzo: "Surprised at your pessimism, Bon. Kildare should give Dublin a decent test.
Actually, I would continue to allow the winner of McDonagh the play-off - but have it against the third placed Leinster team every year." They should, but a six day turnaround only favours the Dublin/Tipperary teams. The stronger teams have been resting for a couple of weeks and now Kildare and Laois especially have to try raise themselves. How is that supposed to benefit the mcdonagh cup teams. Hopefully they'll put up a good performance
Bon (Kildare) - Posts: 2390 - 11/06/2025 19:18:42
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Replying To Viking66: " Replying To Seanfanbocht: "[quote=Viking66: "[quote=MillerX: "[quote=Pikeman96: "Methinks you're clutching at straws with your last line. Nobody's in doubt that the Liam McCarty is the primary competition, the Joe McDonagh is the secondary one, and the Christy Ring is the tertiary.
Anyway, consider some other examples:
In soccer, the Europa League thing that Manchester United are still involved in. The winners get a spot in the following season's Champions League. They aren't parachuted into the latter stages of the Champions League in the same season.
Or closer to home, the Tailteann Cup. It's not run off early so that the winners can join the Sam Maguire series at the preliminary quarter-final stages. Instead, the winners wait until the following season before taking their place in the primary competition.
Leaving aside the Laois victory (by two points) over Dublin in 2019, facts are:
- average winning margin of McCarthy Cup side over Joe McDonagh winners = 13.5 points
- average winning margin of McCarthy Cup side over Joe McDonagh runners-up = 20 points
Again, I say let the McDonagh Cup finalists finish their campaign either on the high of winning it and looking forward to promotion the next year, or dealing with just the one disappointment of losing that final.
Little to be gained by making them go out again a week later and more than likely losing by double digits." You are conveniently forgetting that ALL participants in this year's Tailteann Cup have ALREADY participated in the various provincial Senior championships this year. Furthermore the link between the Joe McDonagh Cup and the McCarthy Cup were part of the motion that set up the McDonagh Cup in the first instance. Had that link not been included in the motion it may not have been carried."
Then an AI series with 2 round robin groups of 5. Top 2 in each group through to AISFs. Consisting of the 10 top placed teams from the League pyramid. This would add meaning to the League. And no League finals.
This would actually mean we could have slightly longer breaks between Championship games for most teams for recovery."]Munster SHC as is = a lot of €s"]So too would an AI round robin series. There'd be plenty of all-Munster games in it."]I was the first to say this but the path to the McCarthy will be there and should be by winning your way up to the next level first. Firstly that team should prove that they are better than the McDonagh by at least two consecutive final appearances. Then when promoted giving them more than one year to adjust to the McCarty level. This is not to punish them but give a better chance to be competitive. Thus up and down is counter productive. Avoiding the 30 point beating. In the present game the elite teams can be beaten by 10 or more teams.
Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 3108 - 11/06/2025 19:20:55
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Replying To Pikeman96: "With all due respect, saying "Winning the championship is the only goal in town" is an argument in itself for ending the direct link between the Joe McDonagh Cup and the same year's Liam McCarthy.
It's a link that doesn't exist anywhere else. I've said before how I can think of no other sport where the winners of a secondary competition are springboarded into the latter stages of the primary competition in the same year, after some of those who began in the primary competition are already eliminated. Nobody else could give an example either.
Nor does it happen anywhere else in GAA:
- Winners of this year's Christy Ring didn't go into some stage of this year's Joe McDonagh
- Winners of this year's NIckey Rackard didn't go into this year's Christy Ring
- Winners of this year's Lory Meagher didn't go into this year's Nickey Rackard
- Winners of this year's Tailteann Cup won't go into this year's Sam Maguire
- Winners of this year's intermediate club championship in Carlow, Wexford, or anywhere else won't go into this year's senior club championship.
As I've said before, would be far better to let winners of the Joe McDonagh Cup go out on the high of winning that cup, and have 10 months to prepare properly for testing themselves against somebody from the top grade, and let the losers of the McDonagh Cup Final go out on just that disappointment, instead of more than likely shipping a heavy beating a week later.
As also previously stated, leaving aside the one shock victory by a McDonagh Cup side (Laois) over a top tier side (Dublin), the average margin of defeat in all those matches has been 19 points." My point as stated now a number of times is quiet simple. If you are going to allow the Mcdonagh Finalist play preliminary q/t finals then at least give them a chance to prepare properly. 6 days is a bloody joke especially after winning as you will hopefully be celebrating your win. I think it gives the winners of Mcdonagh a game to test themselves against superior opposition & get ready for what they will be facing the following year. You can throw out all the stats you want about the losing margins but our lads gave Dublin an almighty fright in 2023 but they pulled away in the end as can happen so quickly in hurling. Leave we'll enough alone
carlo (Carlow) - Posts: 273 - 12/06/2025 00:35:37
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What if-
Mcdonagh Cup winners only go through to All Ireland series . They go directly to the Q.Fs to play the Leinster Championship winners. So this year Kildare would play Kilkenny as part of 3 Q.Fs. Tipperary v Galway and Dublin v Limerick being the other two.
This removes the P.Q.Fs so would give the Mcdonagh Cup winners two weeks to prepare for.
edu (Mayo) - Posts: 114 - 12/06/2025 10:16:51
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