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Replying To ExiledInWex: "This is Wexford problem for me. Wexford need to find goals, even their goal chances were from a range most keepers would stop.
The big problem Wexford have compared to Cork and Tipp is when top counties win the turnover in their backs they work the ball through the lines at speed but not at such a speed that the half-forward line have not had time to move in and the full forward line gained a yard on the full back line to neutralise the sweeper, so a goal threat is always there. The Wexford half forward line don't and haven't worked hard enough to put pressure on the opposition backs and this was evident in that Clare match in the league yet he changed nothing.
What Wexford did on Saturday was music to Dublin ears but if I was up from Wexford I would have been pulling my hair out. Long range shots dropping short in to an uncontested goalie on top of the 19 wides.
Daire Egan threw them under a bus but he sets the team up and if there is no option inside, what else can a forward do only take a long range shot?
And btw, those coaching courses in Wexford are much better than they have been made out to be. I have gone to them routinely over the years and pick new things up each time. Either the poster hasn't done them or like tondydoranfan and his son on the minor team until challenged..." To say he threw them under the bus is ridiculousl in my opinion. If any of the other top teams at the minute got the chances Wexford got last weekend they would of easily finished up with 1-30.
I don't like the set up and it's not that easy on the eye but all the criticism he's getting from the weekend just doesn't add up. If we took our chances the weekend we would of won the game comfortably and there's no debating that. I'm sure they have done a huge amount of shooting practice in training, like any intercounty team would.
JT22 (Wexford) - Posts: 51 - 08/05/2023 13:57:06
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Replying To HurlingBuzz: "Agree. Management, county board and players will no doubt all reflect on the year and think about things going forward after the championship" Mad thing is it wasn't some upstart trying to make a name for himself, Alan Corcoran is News editor for the radio station.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 08/05/2023 14:08:55
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I don't like criticising any manager or individual players on forums like these, and hence I don't often post in too much detail after any particular match. Any one of them knows far more about the game than me or is a far better player than I ever was, if they're managing or playing for a county team in the first place.
So I'm not singling anybody out here, but in my view, it's the players more than the manager who should be held responsible for Saturday's disappointment.
People might question certain aspects of Egan's management - e.g. picking players who may not be fully fit instead of going with alternatives, or some parts of the game plan - but still, Saturday's was a game plan that saw us create almost 50 scoring chances. I don't think the manager can be held directly responsible for how we converted less than half of them, or how we conceded a sloppy goal that was the real difference between the sides for the rest of the game after it went in.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2962 - 08/05/2023 14:19:27
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Replying To Onfor15: "Firstly it isn't difficult to get the man's name right, it's Darragh Egan. It has been printed in enough places at this stage.
I don't think the differences on Saturday could be blamed on the team management. If individuals had executed the basic skills of the game more effectively then we would have won by 8/10 points and everyone would be saying how fantastic the management were.
We missed umpteen shots from 40-60 yards out under very little pressure by intercounty standards, at least 3 or 4 of them should be scored 9 times out of 10 by intercounty players. We conceded a very sloppy goal that both the defenders and goalkeeper made a mess of. Those things are individual mistakes that management just can't be held responsible for.
We hit the crossbar and forced the Dublin goalkeeper to make a fantastic save. On another day a very fair scoreline on the balance of play could have been something like 2-26 to 0-22 in Wexford's favour.
The game plan that everyone seems to be bemoaning resulted in us creating 20 scoring chances more than Dublin." There were lots of mistakes from players for sure. But I don't think anyone would be complementing management regardless if we had managed to squeak over the line on Saturday. Team selection was wrong with his faith in clearly injured players badly misplaced. McGovern not starting at midfield after finishing strongly there v Antrim? More importantly tactics were a complete **** show. Letting an inexperienced Dublin defence run the ball out to midfield all first half, that beggars belief really. Think it also demonstrates his lack of faith in our back line to front up to the might of the Dublin attack, Kevin Foley played like a second full back at times. KK or Galway won't attempt it anyway and watch them put the Dubs to the sword.
Egan aside, in terms of basic skills I think we are well off the players in the top teams. Maybe the free taking issue is overblown (don't recall ROC or Chin missing any in the first two games?) but their technique is nowhere near as certain as the likes of TJ Reid or someone like that. If it was a golfer they would be in for analysis from the age of 16 or 17 to correct those technical flaws. Inability to win ball in the air, another age old complaint but seemingly no improvement. I think the perennial wides count is indicative of poor striking technique more than psychology.
To get Wexford consistently competing for even AI semi final spots is going to take a lot more than moving Egan on.
Timbertony (Wexford) - Posts: 428 - 08/05/2023 14:23:56
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Replying To Onfor15: "In the last 11 championship meetings between Wexford and Dublin stretching back to 2008 the results are
Wexford 2 wins (2008, 2018)
Dublin 6 wins (2009, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2022, 2023)
3 draws (2008, 2013, 2019)" Yep. Bizarre that there's lads here carrying on like we have the automatic right to be beating Dublin then.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16367 - 08/05/2023 14:27:06
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Replying To LarryOBrother: "Really disappointing on Saturday. We set up like we were afraid of Dublin - conceding puckouts, playing with 11 and 12 behind the ball at all times.
Look on another day we score 2 goals, only hit 10 wides and don't concede a sloppy goal and we win by 8 or 9 but i think the problem is really to do with how we are set up and our approach. We have no confidence or structure from what i can see. I think the players look a bit lost at times and i think the men on the sideline have a lot to answer for in that regard." Confidence is a really big issue. The lads who are playing half injured aren't confident their hamstring, foot, ac joint, or thigh are going to hold up. And the newer lads aren't being shown any confidence in them. Starting half injured lads in front of them shows Egan has no confidence in them. So is it any wonder if they then doubt themselves?
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16367 - 08/05/2023 14:30:35
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Replying To tearintom: "We dont leak goals though, no worse than any other county at the same level, in reality our problem is we leak points at an alarming rate and dont have the forwards to compete at a game that essentially comes down to which team has the best forwards capable of scoring from long range. Flood the middle 3rd to stop the source of scores.
Thats what the modern game is about, long range point taking and goals becoming less and less frequent, and still, even still we are talking about driving the ball long into the big men in the full forward line, like i said in a previous post, its in the psyce, like we cant win any other way, i seen a comment above about Martin Storey asking for Mac and Jacko in the full forward line, without hearing the interview i can guess why? Drive it in long to the big men capable of winning ball!!! (maybe im doing the interview a disservice ill admit)
The average number of goals per game has been dropping since the 80's, it was 4.3, dropped to 3.3 in the 90s and in 2020 was as low as an average of 2.3 goals per game, thats what modern hurling is now yet we are still listening to talk of drive it long to the big men in the full forward line. Even in this years that no one cared about we are still averagin well under 3 goals per game on average.
Until we start adapting to modern day hurling without the same old reflex reaction of "traditional wexford style" we are at nothing." Spot on. Traditional style only worked when we had Rackard and then Doran.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16367 - 08/05/2023 14:31:57
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Replying To hunting: "3rd to 6th and done every session(one a week) sense September" We don't have anyone in doing that. A few of us parents, well 1 in particular fair play to him, got together to arrange Friday morning 365 at 8am before school for 1st to 6th classes. And it's real hurling and football alternate weeks.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16367 - 08/05/2023 14:33:50
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Replying To Timbertony: "I'd try Conor Devitt at 6, think he has plenty of hurling in him and a good turn of speed. Lee Chin is still a fine player but for me needs to lose some bulk. Stuck to the ground at times and rarely fully fit either so you would have to question all his gym work. Has to be at 11.
The placement of the sweeper is the problem for me. Push them up around half back line/midfield instead of a second full back. We have big problems in that area of the pitch. Especially if Liam Ryan is fit I think our full back line is our strongest line on the field anyway with Shane Reck and Donohue/Hanlon." That's where the sweeper has to play. A holding midfielder as the half backs are expected to score. Only Donohue of the backs scored I think.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16367 - 08/05/2023 14:59:52
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Replying To Afinestick: "Maybe 6 is the perfect position for Chin as he 31 this year. His body takes so much hits as a forward . At 6 he can read the game well and be a good platform for us. Losing him as a ball winning option further forward could be a big problem for us though. Even the top players on the under 20 team such as Corey Byrne Dunbar and Cian Byrne are small skillful players but wouldnt be strong in the air. Perhaps Jack Redmond could be a ball winning option in the half forward line going forward he has the size" I think Shamey O Hagan and Farrell are our best chances of a ball winning forward at Senior on that u20 team.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16367 - 08/05/2023 15:00:53
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Replying To Afinestick: "Maybe 6 is the perfect position for Chin as he 31 this year. His body takes so much hits as a forward . At 6 he can read the game well and be a good platform for us. Losing him as a ball winning option further forward could be a big problem for us though. Even the top players on the under 20 team such as Corey Byrne Dunbar and Cian Byrne are small skillful players but wouldnt be strong in the air. Perhaps Jack Redmond could be a ball winning option in the half forward line going forward he has the size" I think Shamey O Hagan and Farrell are our best chances of a ball winning forward at Senior on that u20 team. Kinsella and Clancy, if they bulk up, maybe the best other young potential forwards in the Senior panel that way.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16367 - 08/05/2023 15:02:04
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Replying To wexford2012: "Haven't had the heart to post until now. Saturday was one of the more frustrating and disappointing games we've played in years. Dublin were good without being great, they were obviously nervous too and really should have closed out the game with some comfort but they didn't and somehow they left Wexford in the game and for a few mins towards the end it looked like we would pull off an arguably ill deserved win coming up just short.
I try to avoid the Wexford affliction of 'ying yanging' from thinking we are All Ireland contenders to no hopers but it's the hope that kills you and like others here I sometimes think I care too much given the toll a loss like that takes on my mood and overall mental health.
Looking at stats makes tough reading:
Shots 48 - scored 23 or 47%
34 of wides from play 9 from placed balls
Dublin 100% from placed balls, Wexford 64%
We were superior on turnovers, superior on frees conceded, superior on own puc outs won, superior in goal chances, the only place we were not superior was the only place it actually counts, the score board.
Confidence understanbly is in VERY short supply and was evident on Saturday, I feel for players on days like that. Egan didn't take those 25 wides but he did set up the team and many far more knowledgeable people than I have pointed to basic issues, they've questioned (all year) the lack a discernible game plan. This has been a year from hell for Wexford hurling, injuries have plagued us and this has surely been a huge contributing factor, add in the need to build a squad and the ratcheting pressure and it must be a tough place to be right now.
It's the senior managers job to maximise the return with the resources he has to hand - we can question Egan on this front, the senior team is the front window.
It's the clubs, County Board, Coaching staff and development squads job to provide the raw talent, this 'back office' is where we need to be really honest in our assessment. Yes we've upped things but have we kept pace with other counties? We need to turn the pipeline into a torrent, to develop a wave of talent and increase the odds of success. Do we have enough players, enough coaches, is our ambition matching our actions or are we sitting back with an odd sense of entitlement? Lets hear no more about 'great work' - lets set clear objectives for the county and chase these relentlessly. As the saying goes you can curse the dark or light a candle, we get a lot right but seem to missing the critical elements still!
Sorry for all the cliches but I'll close with one more they say "the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now" its the same in coaching and player development, make Saturday mean something, make it the line we drew in the sand, he markers we put down so that in 10 years its the story Wexford hurling people refer back to as the moment everything changed and we put down the foundations of future success." Great post
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16367 - 08/05/2023 15:07:38
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Replying To Viking66: "We don't have anyone in doing that. A few of us parents, well 1 in particular fair play to him, got together to arrange Friday morning 365 at 8am before school for 1st to 6th classes. And it's real hurling and football alternate weeks." Are u from Taghmon Viking?
hunting (Wexford) - Posts: 1149 - 08/05/2023 15:08:26
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "This is Wexford problem for me. Wexford need to find goals, even their goal chances were from a range most keepers would stop.
The big problem Wexford have compared to Cork and Tipp is when top counties win the turnover in their backs they work the ball through the lines at speed but not at such a speed that the half-forward line have not had time to move in and the full forward line gained a yard on the full back line to neutralise the sweeper, so a goal threat is always there. The Wexford half forward line don't and haven't worked hard enough to put pressure on the opposition backs and this was evident in that Clare match in the league yet he changed nothing.
What Wexford did on Saturday was music to Dublin ears but if I was up from Wexford I would have been pulling my hair out. Long range shots dropping short in to an uncontested goalie on top of the 19 wides.
Daire Egan threw them under a bus but he sets the team up and if there is no option inside, what else can a forward do only take a long range shot?
And btw, those coaching courses in Wexford are much better than they have been made out to be. I have gone to them routinely over the years and pick new things up each time. Either the poster hasn't done them or like tondydoranfan and his son on the minor team until challenged..." The courses I attended had very little by way of drills etc. They highlighted theory and objectives moreso. The practical stuff less so.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16367 - 08/05/2023 15:13:35
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Replying To Onfor15: "Firstly it isn't difficult to get the man's name right, it's Darragh Egan. It has been printed in enough places at this stage.
I don't think the differences on Saturday could be blamed on the team management. If individuals had executed the basic skills of the game more effectively then we would have won by 8/10 points and everyone would be saying how fantastic the management were.
We missed umpteen shots from 40-60 yards out under very little pressure by intercounty standards, at least 3 or 4 of them should be scored 9 times out of 10 by intercounty players. We conceded a very sloppy goal that both the defenders and goalkeeper made a mess of. Those things are individual mistakes that management just can't be held responsible for.
We hit the crossbar and forced the Dublin goalkeeper to make a fantastic save. On another day a very fair scoreline on the balance of play could have been something like 2-26 to 0-22 in Wexford's favour.
The game plan that everyone seems to be bemoaning resulted in us creating 20 scoring chances more than Dublin." Good post also Onfor15
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16367 - 08/05/2023 15:15:22
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Replying To HurlingBuzz: "Agree. Management, county board and players will no doubt all reflect on the year and think about things going forward after the championship" And it's not over yet
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16367 - 08/05/2023 15:16:02
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Replying To hunting: "Are u from Taghmon Viking?" Yes
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16367 - 08/05/2023 15:17:26
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Replying To hunting: "Are u from Taghmon Viking?" That's Carrowreagh school though. Think Taghmon have more going on than us they have much higher numbers.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 16367 - 08/05/2023 15:20:13
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Replying To Viking66: "The courses I attended had very little by way of drills etc. They highlighted theory and objectives moreso. The practical stuff less so." A lot of child psychology etc which while important not enough done on actually teaching the kids how to perfect the various skills, correct issues…. I played the game so at least knew the basics but there's also correct and incorrect ways of coaching skills. Ended up researching the main skills myself and the correct way to teach them
HurlingBuzz (Wexford) - Posts: 554 - 08/05/2023 15:58:33
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Replying To Onfor15: "In the last 11 championship meetings between Wexford and Dublin stretching back to 2008 the results are
Wexford 2 wins (2008, 2018)
Dublin 6 wins (2009, 2013, 2014, 2016, 2022, 2023)
3 draws (2008, 2013, 2019)" Few things on these,2009-2012 was probably the bleakest most of us remember Wexford hurling, this coinsided with Dublin's peak time under Dalo 2009-14 so they were very much a level ahead during that time. every contest from 2018 onwards has been decided by 2 points or less, not point mincing our words we've thrown away the 2 most recent meetings.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 08/05/2023 16:21:12
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