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Replying To Viking66: "I flagged this over the winter TerribleFootwork" Fair enough.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 08/05/2023 10:05:25
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Replying To Viking66: "We leak goals when 1 on 1 at the back. Noone else plays 3 inside either." I know nobody plays 3 inside anymore but we were to exterme on Saturday, watching our set up in the 1st half was so frustrating, maybe the reason we leak goals is our backs are conditioned to having an extra man back there and struggle when there isn't.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 08/05/2023 10:08:40
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Like everybody else, am still hugely disappointed and deflated over how Saturday evening went. For me, maybe the most frustrating thing is how if only a couple of very achievable things had gone differently, we'd have had a very different result.
If we'd dealt better with the ball that ended up leading to the Dublin goal, if Mikie Dwyer had buried his goal chance, and if we shot points instead of wides for even three of the 19 attempts we missed, then that would have been a nine-point turnaround. We'd have been coming out of Croke Park with seven-point victory instead of a two-point defeat, and looking far better in the group even if there'd still obviously be many aspects of the performance itself to try improve.
Anyway, that's all ifs and buts about things that didn't happen, and we are where we are. I know how that earlier poster feels about sometimes wondering if he'd have been better off getting into music or something else when he was young, instead of GAA.
Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2962 - 08/05/2023 10:15:09
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Really disappointing on Saturday. We set up like we were afraid of Dublin - conceding puckouts, playing with 11 and 12 behind the ball at all times.
Look on another day we score 2 goals, only hit 10 wides and don't concede a sloppy goal and we win by 8 or 9 but i think the problem is really to do with how we are set up and our approach. We have no confidence or structure from what i can see. I think the players look a bit lost at times and i think the men on the sideline have a lot to answer for in that regard.
LarryOBrother (Wexford) - Posts: 412 - 08/05/2023 10:20:09
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "2-3 years ago I think there could have been a case but I think on the back of the hamstring issues Lee has lost a yard of pace so wouldn't be suited now, I think his game has evolved alot the last year due to this and fair play him for this, he's as important as ever." Think ability to read the game is the most important role of the centre back and keeping the middle of your defence locked down. Conlon and hannon aren't blessed with pace. Chin well able to move quickly too. Saw him play half back for harriers v oulart (when oulart were dominating local championship) and think he scored 5 points from half back. I know inter county is different but I think he could do a brilliant job there. Westmeath game would be perfect one to look at him there
HurlingBuzz (Wexford) - Posts: 554 - 08/05/2023 10:24:14
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "I know nobody plays 3 inside anymore but we were to exterme on Saturday, watching our set up in the 1st half was so frustrating, maybe the reason we leak goals is our backs are conditioned to having an extra man back there and struggle when there isn't." We dont leak goals though, no worse than any other county at the same level, in reality our problem is we leak points at an alarming rate and dont have the forwards to compete at a game that essentially comes down to which team has the best forwards capable of scoring from long range. Flood the middle 3rd to stop the source of scores.
Thats what the modern game is about, long range point taking and goals becoming less and less frequent, and still, even still we are talking about driving the ball long into the big men in the full forward line, like i said in a previous post, its in the psyce, like we cant win any other way, i seen a comment above about Martin Storey asking for Mac and Jacko in the full forward line, without hearing the interview i can guess why? Drive it in long to the big men capable of winning ball!!! (maybe im doing the interview a disservice ill admit)
The average number of goals per game has been dropping since the 80's, it was 4.3, dropped to 3.3 in the 90s and in 2020 was as low as an average of 2.3 goals per game, thats what modern hurling is now yet we are still listening to talk of drive it long to the big men in the full forward line. Even in this years that no one cared about we are still averagin well under 3 goals per game on average.
Until we start adapting to modern day hurling without the same old reflex reaction of "traditional wexford style" we are at nothing.
tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1522 - 08/05/2023 10:34:18
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Replying To tearintom: "We dont leak goals though, no worse than any other county at the same level, in reality our problem is we leak points at an alarming rate and dont have the forwards to compete at a game that essentially comes down to which team has the best forwards capable of scoring from long range. Flood the middle 3rd to stop the source of scores.
Thats what the modern game is about, long range point taking and goals becoming less and less frequent, and still, even still we are talking about driving the ball long into the big men in the full forward line, like i said in a previous post, its in the psyce, like we cant win any other way, i seen a comment above about Martin Storey asking for Mac and Jacko in the full forward line, without hearing the interview i can guess why? Drive it in long to the big men capable of winning ball!!! (maybe im doing the interview a disservice ill admit)
The average number of goals per game has been dropping since the 80's, it was 4.3, dropped to 3.3 in the 90s and in 2020 was as low as an average of 2.3 goals per game, thats what modern hurling is now yet we are still listening to talk of drive it long to the big men in the full forward line. Even in this years that no one cared about we are still averagin well under 3 goals per game on average.
Until we start adapting to modern day hurling without the same old reflex reaction of "traditional wexford style" we are at nothing." I didn't say I agreed with Martin Storey's view but we have to find a way of scoring goals because we won't compete with the top counties unless we do. We just do not score enough points. Against Tipp in '19 we needed 3 goals to give us a chance.. same last year v Clare.
HurlingBuzz (Wexford) - Posts: 554 - 08/05/2023 11:03:05
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Replying To HurlingBuzz: "Think ability to read the game is the most important role of the centre back and keeping the middle of your defence locked down. Conlon and hannon aren't blessed with pace. Chin well able to move quickly too. Saw him play half back for harriers v oulart (when oulart were dominating local championship) and think he scored 5 points from half back. I know inter county is different but I think he could do a brilliant job there. Westmeath game would be perfect one to look at him there" I remember him 2 years in a row having excellent games against Oulart in the HB line but that was 2012&13, I'd use last year as a better indicator when the Harriers played him there but their year turned from a likely relegation play off into unlucky to lose to the Rapps in the QF by going more conventical pushing him up the field.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 08/05/2023 11:03:15
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Replying To Pikeman96: "What age children are you talking about here?
"No Man's Land" - assuming you mean the same game that I'm thinking of - is a game to promote quick and accurate ground striking of the ball into a target area.
"Cat and mouse" games are to promote things like mobility and reaction time.
All very suitable and indeed recommended for children up to the age of 7 or 8. But if the coach you're talking about is just playing chase games with 10 and 11-year-olds instead, you'd be right to be critical of them all right." 3rd to 6th and done every session(one a week) sense September
hunting (Wexford) - Posts: 1149 - 08/05/2023 11:06:56
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A disappointing day and a disastrous result. I was shocked at the small crowd as I thought 12-15k would surely be the attendance.
There is no doubt but we threw the game away with some very bad wides from inside 50 metres and Kevin Foley missed a great goal chance also.
Alot has been said here and in plenty of Dublin pubs on Saturday about team selection and all the problems of Wexford hurling. Most of it is pub talk including the idea that of we put Chin at 6 and Conor Mac and Jack O in full forward line with Rory playing off them we are as good as anyone. Cringeworthy stuff!
There are defintely issues with wexford hurling that need to be sorted and we can only hope that the appointment of a director of hurling helps solve them.
wexfordwin (Wexford) - Posts: 191 - 08/05/2023 11:13:32
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I'd try Conor Devitt at 6, think he has plenty of hurling in him and a good turn of speed. Lee Chin is still a fine player but for me needs to lose some bulk. Stuck to the ground at times and rarely fully fit either so you would have to question all his gym work. Has to be at 11.
The placement of the sweeper is the problem for me. Push them up around half back line/midfield instead of a second full back. We have big problems in that area of the pitch. Especially if Liam Ryan is fit I think our full back line is our strongest line on the field anyway with Shane Reck and Donohue/Hanlon.
Timbertony (Wexford) - Posts: 428 - 08/05/2023 11:24:00
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "I remember him 2 years in a row having excellent games against Oulart in the HB line but that was 2012&13, I'd use last year as a better indicator when the Harriers played him there but their year turned from a likely relegation play off into unlucky to lose to the Rapps in the QF by going more conventical pushing him up the field." Maybe 6 is the perfect position for Chin as he 31 this year. His body takes so much hits as a forward . At 6 he can read the game well and be a good platform for us. Losing him as a ball winning option further forward could be a big problem for us though. Even the top players on the under 20 team such as Corey Byrne Dunbar and Cian Byrne are small skillful players but wouldnt be strong in the air. Perhaps Jack Redmond could be a ball winning option in the half forward line going forward he has the size
Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 08/05/2023 11:52:13
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Haven't had the heart to post until now. Saturday was one of the more frustrating and disappointing games we've played in years. Dublin were good without being great, they were obviously nervous too and really should have closed out the game with some comfort but they didn't and somehow they left Wexford in the game and for a few mins towards the end it looked like we would pull off an arguably ill deserved win coming up just short.
I try to avoid the Wexford affliction of 'ying yanging' from thinking we are All Ireland contenders to no hopers but it's the hope that kills you and like others here I sometimes think I care too much given the toll a loss like that takes on my mood and overall mental health.
Looking at stats makes tough reading:
Shots 48 - scored 23 or 47%
34 of wides from play 9 from placed balls
Dublin 100% from placed balls, Wexford 64%
We were superior on turnovers, superior on frees conceded, superior on own puc outs won, superior in goal chances, the only place we were not superior was the only place it actually counts, the score board.
Confidence understanbly is in VERY short supply and was evident on Saturday, I feel for players on days like that. Egan didn't take those 25 wides but he did set up the team and many far more knowledgeable people than I have pointed to basic issues, they've questioned (all year) the lack a discernible game plan. This has been a year from hell for Wexford hurling, injuries have plagued us and this has surely been a huge contributing factor, add in the need to build a squad and the ratcheting pressure and it must be a tough place to be right now.
It's the senior managers job to maximise the return with the resources he has to hand - we can question Egan on this front, the senior team is the front window.
It's the clubs, County Board, Coaching staff and development squads job to provide the raw talent, this 'back office' is where we need to be really honest in our assessment. Yes we've upped things but have we kept pace with other counties? We need to turn the pipeline into a torrent, to develop a wave of talent and increase the odds of success. Do we have enough players, enough coaches, is our ambition matching our actions or are we sitting back with an odd sense of entitlement? Lets hear no more about 'great work' - lets set clear objectives for the county and chase these relentlessly. As the saying goes you can curse the dark or light a candle, we get a lot right but seem to missing the critical elements still!
Sorry for all the cliches but I'll close with one more they say "the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now" its the same in coaching and player development, make Saturday mean something, make it the line we drew in the sand, he markers we put down so that in 10 years its the story Wexford hurling people refer back to as the moment everything changed and we put down the foundations of future success.
wexford2012 (Wexford) - Posts: 118 - 08/05/2023 12:22:40
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Replying To tearintom: "We dont leak goals though, no worse than any other county at the same level, in reality our problem is we leak points at an alarming rate and dont have the forwards to compete at a game that essentially comes down to which team has the best forwards capable of scoring from long range. Flood the middle 3rd to stop the source of scores.
Thats what the modern game is about, long range point taking and goals becoming less and less frequent, and still, even still we are talking about driving the ball long into the big men in the full forward line, like i said in a previous post, its in the psyce, like we cant win any other way, i seen a comment above about Martin Storey asking for Mac and Jacko in the full forward line, without hearing the interview i can guess why? Drive it in long to the big men capable of winning ball!!! (maybe im doing the interview a disservice ill admit)
The average number of goals per game has been dropping since the 80's, it was 4.3, dropped to 3.3 in the 90s and in 2020 was as low as an average of 2.3 goals per game, thats what modern hurling is now yet we are still listening to talk of drive it long to the big men in the full forward line. Even in this years that no one cared about we are still averagin well under 3 goals per game on average.
Until we start adapting to modern day hurling without the same old reflex reaction of "traditional wexford style" we are at nothing." This is Wexford problem for me. Wexford need to find goals, even their goal chances were from a range most keepers would stop.
The big problem Wexford have compared to Cork and Tipp is when top counties win the turnover in their backs they work the ball through the lines at speed but not at such a speed that the half-forward line have not had time to move in and the full forward line gained a yard on the full back line to neutralise the sweeper, so a goal threat is always there. The Wexford half forward line don't and haven't worked hard enough to put pressure on the opposition backs and this was evident in that Clare match in the league yet he changed nothing.
What Wexford did on Saturday was music to Dublin ears but if I was up from Wexford I would have been pulling my hair out. Long range shots dropping short in to an uncontested goalie on top of the 19 wides.
Daire Egan threw them under a bus but he sets the team up and if there is no option inside, what else can a forward do only take a long range shot?
And btw, those coaching courses in Wexford are much better than they have been made out to be. I have gone to them routinely over the years and pick new things up each time. Either the poster hasn't done them or like tondydoranfan and his son on the minor team until challenged...
ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1389 - 08/05/2023 12:26:43
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Replying To wexford2012: "Haven't had the heart to post until now. Saturday was one of the more frustrating and disappointing games we've played in years. Dublin were good without being great, they were obviously nervous too and really should have closed out the game with some comfort but they didn't and somehow they left Wexford in the game and for a few mins towards the end it looked like we would pull off an arguably ill deserved win coming up just short.
I try to avoid the Wexford affliction of 'ying yanging' from thinking we are All Ireland contenders to no hopers but it's the hope that kills you and like others here I sometimes think I care too much given the toll a loss like that takes on my mood and overall mental health.
Looking at stats makes tough reading:
Shots 48 - scored 23 or 47%
34 of wides from play 9 from placed balls
Dublin 100% from placed balls, Wexford 64%
We were superior on turnovers, superior on frees conceded, superior on own puc outs won, superior in goal chances, the only place we were not superior was the only place it actually counts, the score board.
Confidence understanbly is in VERY short supply and was evident on Saturday, I feel for players on days like that. Egan didn't take those 25 wides but he did set up the team and many far more knowledgeable people than I have pointed to basic issues, they've questioned (all year) the lack a discernible game plan. This has been a year from hell for Wexford hurling, injuries have plagued us and this has surely been a huge contributing factor, add in the need to build a squad and the ratcheting pressure and it must be a tough place to be right now.
It's the senior managers job to maximise the return with the resources he has to hand - we can question Egan on this front, the senior team is the front window.
It's the clubs, County Board, Coaching staff and development squads job to provide the raw talent, this 'back office' is where we need to be really honest in our assessment. Yes we've upped things but have we kept pace with other counties? We need to turn the pipeline into a torrent, to develop a wave of talent and increase the odds of success. Do we have enough players, enough coaches, is our ambition matching our actions or are we sitting back with an odd sense of entitlement? Lets hear no more about 'great work' - lets set clear objectives for the county and chase these relentlessly. As the saying goes you can curse the dark or light a candle, we get a lot right but seem to missing the critical elements still!
Sorry for all the cliches but I'll close with one more they say "the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now" its the same in coaching and player development, make Saturday mean something, make it the line we drew in the sand, he markers we put down so that in 10 years its the story Wexford hurling people refer back to as the moment everything changed and we put down the foundations of future success." To compound matters the game in Wexford Park last year was a mirror image, we've essentially handed Dublin 4 points the last 2 years due to our own malfunctions.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 08/05/2023 12:45:18
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Replying To wexford2012: "Haven't had the heart to post until now. Saturday was one of the more frustrating and disappointing games we've played in years. Dublin were good without being great, they were obviously nervous too and really should have closed out the game with some comfort but they didn't and somehow they left Wexford in the game and for a few mins towards the end it looked like we would pull off an arguably ill deserved win coming up just short.
I try to avoid the Wexford affliction of 'ying yanging' from thinking we are All Ireland contenders to no hopers but it's the hope that kills you and like others here I sometimes think I care too much given the toll a loss like that takes on my mood and overall mental health.
Looking at stats makes tough reading:
Shots 48 - scored 23 or 47%
34 of wides from play 9 from placed balls
Dublin 100% from placed balls, Wexford 64%
We were superior on turnovers, superior on frees conceded, superior on own puc outs won, superior in goal chances, the only place we were not superior was the only place it actually counts, the score board.
Confidence understanbly is in VERY short supply and was evident on Saturday, I feel for players on days like that. Egan didn't take those 25 wides but he did set up the team and many far more knowledgeable people than I have pointed to basic issues, they've questioned (all year) the lack a discernible game plan. This has been a year from hell for Wexford hurling, injuries have plagued us and this has surely been a huge contributing factor, add in the need to build a squad and the ratcheting pressure and it must be a tough place to be right now.
It's the senior managers job to maximise the return with the resources he has to hand - we can question Egan on this front, the senior team is the front window.
It's the clubs, County Board, Coaching staff and development squads job to provide the raw talent, this 'back office' is where we need to be really honest in our assessment. Yes we've upped things but have we kept pace with other counties? We need to turn the pipeline into a torrent, to develop a wave of talent and increase the odds of success. Do we have enough players, enough coaches, is our ambition matching our actions or are we sitting back with an odd sense of entitlement? Lets hear no more about 'great work' - lets set clear objectives for the county and chase these relentlessly. As the saying goes you can curse the dark or light a candle, we get a lot right but seem to missing the critical elements still!
Sorry for all the cliches but I'll close with one more they say "the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now" its the same in coaching and player development, make Saturday mean something, make it the line we drew in the sand, he markers we put down so that in 10 years its the story Wexford hurling people refer back to as the moment everything changed and we put down the foundations of future success." Good post wexford2012. Saturday should be seen as a turning point for us as a county . Until we can develop a conveyor belt of talent competing to win provincial and all ireland titles at underage we are at nothing. Is the new hurling development plan up and running yet and what does it entail?
Afinestick (Wexford) - Posts: 999 - 08/05/2023 12:50:52
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "This is Wexford problem for me. Wexford need to find goals, even their goal chances were from a range most keepers would stop.
The big problem Wexford have compared to Cork and Tipp is when top counties win the turnover in their backs they work the ball through the lines at speed but not at such a speed that the half-forward line have not had time to move in and the full forward line gained a yard on the full back line to neutralise the sweeper, so a goal threat is always there. The Wexford half forward line don't and haven't worked hard enough to put pressure on the opposition backs and this was evident in that Clare match in the league yet he changed nothing.
What Wexford did on Saturday was music to Dublin ears but if I was up from Wexford I would have been pulling my hair out. Long range shots dropping short in to an uncontested goalie on top of the 19 wides.
Daire Egan threw them under a bus but he sets the team up and if there is no option inside, what else can a forward do only take a long range shot?
And btw, those coaching courses in Wexford are much better than they have been made out to be. I have gone to them routinely over the years and pick new things up each time. Either the poster hasn't done them or like tondydoranfan and his son on the minor team until challenged..." Firstly it isn't difficult to get the man's name right, it's Darragh Egan. It has been printed in enough places at this stage.
I don't think the differences on Saturday could be blamed on the team management. If individuals had executed the basic skills of the game more effectively then we would have won by 8/10 points and everyone would be saying how fantastic the management were.
We missed umpteen shots from 40-60 yards out under very little pressure by intercounty standards, at least 3 or 4 of them should be scored 9 times out of 10 by intercounty players. We conceded a very sloppy goal that both the defenders and goalkeeper made a mess of. Those things are individual mistakes that management just can't be held responsible for.
We hit the crossbar and forced the Dublin goalkeeper to make a fantastic save. On another day a very fair scoreline on the balance of play could have been something like 2-26 to 0-22 in Wexford's favour.
The game plan that everyone seems to be bemoaning resulted in us creating 20 scoring chances more than Dublin.
Onfor15 (Wexford) - Posts: 533 - 08/05/2023 13:19:05
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Replying To wexfordwin: "A disappointing day and a disastrous result. I was shocked at the small crowd as I thought 12-15k would surely be the attendance.
There is no doubt but we threw the game away with some very bad wides from inside 50 metres and Kevin Foley missed a great goal chance also.
Alot has been said here and in plenty of Dublin pubs on Saturday about team selection and all the problems of Wexford hurling. Most of it is pub talk including the idea that of we put Chin at 6 and Conor Mac and Jack O in full forward line with Rory playing off them we are as good as anyone. Cringeworthy stuff!
There are defintely issues with wexford hurling that need to be sorted and we can only hope that the appointment of a director of hurling helps solve them." Taught some of the line of questioning in the Storey interview was bizarre too, we're all really disappointed after Saturday but asking if the manager should go before the Westmeath was a bit much and a bit on the tabloid side of things if you ask me.
TerribleFootwork (Wexford) - Posts: 1760 - 08/05/2023 13:24:36
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Replying To ExiledInWex: "This is Wexford problem for me. Wexford need to find goals, even their goal chances were from a range most keepers would stop.
The big problem Wexford have compared to Cork and Tipp is when top counties win the turnover in their backs they work the ball through the lines at speed but not at such a speed that the half-forward line have not had time to move in and the full forward line gained a yard on the full back line to neutralise the sweeper, so a goal threat is always there. The Wexford half forward line don't and haven't worked hard enough to put pressure on the opposition backs and this was evident in that Clare match in the league yet he changed nothing.
What Wexford did on Saturday was music to Dublin ears but if I was up from Wexford I would have been pulling my hair out. Long range shots dropping short in to an uncontested goalie on top of the 19 wides.
Daire Egan threw them under a bus but he sets the team up and if there is no option inside, what else can a forward do only take a long range shot?
And btw, those coaching courses in Wexford are much better than they have been made out to be. I have gone to them routinely over the years and pick new things up each time. Either the poster hasn't done them or like tondydoranfan and his son on the minor team until challenged..." Last sentence is a cheap shot exiled. I've done up to and including level 1 coaching course(hurling )together with a large number of other workshops. Not everyone on here should be accused of making things up if they don't fall in line with your view
HurlingBuzz (Wexford) - Posts: 554 - 08/05/2023 13:30:22
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Replying To TerribleFootwork: "Taught some of the line of questioning in the Storey interview was bizarre too, we're all really disappointed after Saturday but asking if the manager should go before the Westmeath was a bit much and a bit on the tabloid side of things if you ask me." Agree. Management, county board and players will no doubt all reflect on the year and think about things going forward after the championship
HurlingBuzz (Wexford) - Posts: 554 - 08/05/2023 13:44:07
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