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We probably need to define the context before describing someone as Pro-Palestinian or Pro-Israel, as generalizations are usually reflective of people's opinions or actual political leanings. I'd safely say >90% of people I know in Ireland are against what Israel are doing in Gaza against the Palestinian people, are frustrated at inability of the EU and the US to influence matters for so long, clearly subordinate to powerful lobbying. In this specific context, all of these Irish people can all be described as Pro-Palestinian regardless of their general political ideology. So would this make all of these people Anti-Israel? No, it doesn't actually. As while all or most Irish people are against the long-term sustained actions of this Netanyahu government which has become a genocide in Gaza, they aren't generally anti-Israel and most were also appalled by the Oct 7th actions of Hamas and the treatment of hostages. Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1491 - 13/10/2025 12:47:08 2639727 Link 0 |
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Good post. A reasonable conversation can often be elusive. slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6598 - 13/10/2025 12:47:42 2639728 Link 1 |
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I am not some woke leftie who wants to let everyone come to Ireland regardless of their past. It's impossible to have a reasoned debate on this.
TheFlaker (Mayo) - Posts: 8550 - 13/10/2025 12:59:34 2639734 Link 0 |
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Absolutely it's not racist to have a reasonable conversation. To start the ball rolling a couple of quick thoughts- 1- we have immigrants playing for some of our underage teams. I know of others who are learning Irish. I think someone who comes in and embraces the culture should be welcomed. 2- Id be less trustful of lads who Google richest countries in the world and only decide to come to Ireland because it ranks 2nd or 3rd. 3- Id be even less trustful of people who emigrate to another country and decide they want to bring their own different religions and cultures with them while not wanting to fit in at all with the country they have emigrated to. For example if I was a Muslim and wanted to leave the country I was born in for economic or persecution reasons, if being in a Muslim cultural environment was really important to me Id choose to emigrate to another Muslim country. As a country we need immigrants as our population ages and our birth rate continues to decline. Id rather these consisted of people in category 1 above, rather than 2 or 3. As regards a common narrative here, Id view people who view all immigrants who want to come here as coloured people who want free houses and cars as racists. And Im not sorry if any of the above offends anyone. Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17219 - 13/10/2025 13:08:34 2639736 Link 0 |
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For someone living in England I was unaware that Brummiejoe (UK) - Posts: 12 - 13/10/2025 13:56:40 2639748 Link 0 |
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I wasn't suggesting that you are. I don't know you, and generally try to avoid these types of topics. I think we can all agree the type of group identity stuff being imported from the US is beginning to stick here. As in if you're pro same sex marriage, you must also be pro abortion which is very often not the case. The same is happening with people's views on Israel. Being upset by Israel's actions appears to equal anti semitism. Being sympathetic to the people of Gaza seems to equal being pro hamas. I don't think either of those things are true. Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3963 - 13/10/2025 13:59:21 2639749 Link 2 |
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I agree with you completely. We need skills, this is evidenced in our health service. I attend mass in clonard, a majority of those I shake hands with are Indian or Thai. I coach some of their kids in hurling. They have similar values and are throwing themselves into the community. I am very much in favour of this. I'm also familiar with some of the unsavoury elements, which I believe we should do more to avoid. Doylerwex (Wexford) - Posts: 3963 - 13/10/2025 14:02:12 2639751 Link 1 |
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No argument from me on any of your 3 points
Freethinker (Wicklow) - Posts: 1889 - 13/10/2025 14:10:56 2639756 Link 0 |
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No it's not but local groups who initially seem to have genuine fears about size of receiving town, infratructure, services etc, which i think is totally legitimate, but then allow banners such as Get Them Out at the front of their protest do themselves no favours. The slogan Get Them Out is absolutely laced with racism and hate and a couple of steps off a mob with pitchforks and torches. However most people aren't hate filled. A big issue is it can be very easy to scroll on the phone or computer reading misleading and false articles about people they've never had a conversation with. Unfortunatley a lot of the concerned locals groups get hijacked by a few loud mouths who have a right wing agenda. Immigrants themselves aren't a problem, it's the government handling of it that is.
FullOfPorter (Roscommon) - Posts: 402 - 13/10/2025 14:38:55 2639767 Link 1 |
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Why have you put woke and lefty in the same sentence? Not getting onto you, genuinely just curious, but it's something that annoys me a little. Leftwing means politically, economically and socially you are left of centre, as in on the workers/less privileged members of society's side. The term has nothing to do with subjects like race, religion, gender, perceived gender or any of the other 15 minutes of fame topics that people seem to think are so important to a country since social media became a thing.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17219 - 13/10/2025 16:01:37 2639803 Link 1 |
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I agree there's a huge difference between a Lefty and a Woke person. A lefty is your typical tree hugger that cares about the environment for example, a typical harmless type. Might go to a protest here and there to stop some big shopping center being built in an area of natural beauty for example. A Woke person seems to be far more aggressive and non negotiable in their stances usually involving defining genders, and such things. Just what I noticed.
SouthGalway (Galway) - Posts: 56 - 13/10/2025 17:24:42 2639820 Link 3 |
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Where would ye put Paul Murphy objecting to a soccer pitch and floodlights?
Seanfan (Roscommon) - Posts: 152 - 13/10/2025 18:57:51 2639834 Link 0 |
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That's not what Id think of a traditional left winger. James Connolly would be more the type. A proper socialist, which is what a Lefty always was.
Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 17219 - 13/10/2025 20:21:53 2639842 Link 0 |
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Depends where the centre is and what people think is 'liberal'. As someone here said you could have a liberal opinion on one topic and be conservative on another. Could be any number of factors determining your view, religion or lack of it, locality, parents, level of education, gullibility. The Internet can be educational but a lot of it, using algorithms etc, is primed for clickbait to sell rubbish and nonsense. It'll happily create a 'storm' from benign stories to coerce people into parting with their cash. There are even 'journalist' who write about 'people's' opinions within online 'discussions'! I think it's laughable why anyone would want to label people they don't know. Most people are sound. We are on the anonymous Internet. Be nice to people, if they're not nice in return be nice to people.
GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 8273 - 14/10/2025 00:58:29 2639865 Link 0 |
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It doesn't offend me but I think you have let yourself down with this one. Migrants globally could be broken down into two categories, Economic and those fleeing war and persecution. Those who are economic migrants while claiming to be the latter as a stain on the process and are making it harder globally for those who genuinely need help. I guess there is a third which are in the shadows and that is the slave/sex market which a bit like drugs wouldn't exist if the punter didn't but as with drugs the users seem very quick to absolve themselves of any blame for the problem. In Ireland the facts speak for themselves and the vast majority of the migrants here are economic migrants, asylum seekers accounted for in 2023 less then 5% of all applications for entry into Ireland. Why do economic migrants chose to come to Ireland - all legally - its because they see opportunities in Ireland. However in your point 2, you do not trust these people. That is despite the fact that annually thousands of Irish people leave this country as economic migrants and head to other countries - what you are saying is that these Irish people should not be trusted in these countries. So you don't trust economic migrants even though they are essential to the workplace. In your third point you have allowed yourself to slip into the right and I would say racist way of thinking. There seems to be an train of though that cultural assimilation should happen at the border and that a migrants should throw off their family's culture immediately and head off down to the pub for a few pints of Guinness. Yet when Irish people go abroad they are allowed wear their cultural badge with pride. Gaelic Games, the language, dancing etc. all celebrated around the world in places where the Irish as a speck of dust in comparison to the local culture - why is it that someone who comes to Ireland should suddenly need to forget their culture, language and religion because they are a minority? Some will integrate faster than others, some may never integrate but thats their choice. Your paragraph three is exactly what was used by Natzies to persecute the Jews - they are not one of us, they are different, they have a different religion,. In case you are thinking you are only referring to new arrivals, there have been Muslim and Jewish people in Ireland long before this recent wave of migration so where will people stop, is it just the new people that should give up their religion or should all the minorities do it. So in 2023 if less than 5% of all the applications to enter the country were for asylum seekers why is there such a big deal being made about it - the answer to that is simple - they do not look like us. That makes them an easy target and once they have become the target all people who do not look like us become the target. Just one final thought, it is not the fault of those people fleeing persecution that there is a housing crises in Ireland. Ireland was never a colonizer, it never started a war or influenced regime change so why do we have to burden ourselves with the results caused by others, I guess the answer to that depends on what each individual sees as the values they themselves believe in. zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 2094 - 14/10/2025 02:50:13 2639866 Link 0 |
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The problem these days is everyone has to have a label. To me the extreme left and right are both nuts. Can someone have so called left leaning view on some matters and right on others? In other words the centre? To me this sensible position seems to have been eroded away. yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 11787 - 14/10/2025 07:06:49 2639869 Link 2 |
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I disagree Zinny. I thought Viking66 got it pretty spot on. Perhaps it is you who has let yourself down by adding the 'racist' part to your post? You also did this by adding the word 'right' in close proximity. To your credit you don't say 'far right'. But again you are taking us back to the point where asking questions is deemed racist and I do not think that is fair. Suggesting people who don't look like us are the reasons people on the right ask questions is bizarre and in my opinion very lazy thinking. As for going the Nazi route - when anyone invokes that, I think they've lost the argument. slayer (Limerick) - Posts: 6598 - 14/10/2025 08:18:21 2639872 Link 0 |