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Replying To GreenandRed:  "He wasn't good enough to play after 3 years. They couldn't be guaranteed a cap after 3 years and now after 5 years. Form, injury, a player well better than them in the same position could prevent them playing. Right now they're worth their starting place."
For sure. I was just pointing out that these lads weren't head hunted to be starters.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14974 - 24/02/2025 13:27:52    2592888

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Replying To zinny:  "If Mayo had the option of bringing in say Fenton during the nearly years of All Irelands and they won do you think the kids in Mayo woukd have cared. Would they have said ibam not going to play anymore because of that lad or would they be inspired to play to game to emulate their hero's? In a battle for kids hears and minds, who wins, winners or gallant losers?
The import players was controlled and they have an never will have an impact on player development, I am not sure if could say the same about the AIL but then again, do the IRFU care about the also rans"
Kids mightn't have cared but I'd like to think most of their parents would and would instil in them some pride in the county jersey. B sound a bit like There's no Man U Tube 'fans' here Zinny. Let's change the coach, get rid of a load of players and pay a, supposedly, better coach and better players. Why not get a coaching system in place that improves Irish players and finds better Irish players? We won a Grand Slam in 2009 with a very good Irish team that never went past the World Cup Quarter Final, some of them with varying levels of a GAA background. We haven't bettered that level with imports. The three Kiwis are backs similar in size to intercounty hurlers and footballers. Maybe not Limerick hurlers though! So it's not like we couldn't find backs of a similar athletic profile and improve them. Plenty of GAA club players playing rugby too. I think the IRFU rarely put a foot wrong. The GAA should take a look at how they market their game and do primary schools coaching in non-traditional rugby areas. Cúl Camps alone won't keep children in foitball and hurling. With these rules they've definitely improved the standard of rugby worldwide, makes it a better watch for television. But are they and the IRFU getting greedy because of the increased revenue that brings?

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7802 - 24/02/2025 13:45:55    2592895

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Rugby usually copies soccer so the next thing you'll see is a six nations game being played in the USA to 'increase interest' there

boxtyburgerbuns (Leitrim) - Posts: 148 - 24/02/2025 14:03:20    2592902

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Kids mightn't have cared but I'd like to think most of their parents would and would instil in them some pride in the county jersey. B sound a bit like There's no Man U Tube 'fans' here Zinny. Let's change the coach, get rid of a load of players and pay a, supposedly, better coach and better players. Why not get a coaching system in place that improves Irish players and finds better Irish players? We won a Grand Slam in 2009 with a very good Irish team that never went past the World Cup Quarter Final, some of them with varying levels of a GAA background. We haven't bettered that level with imports. The three Kiwis are backs similar in size to intercounty hurlers and footballers. Maybe not Limerick hurlers though! So it's not like we couldn't find backs of a similar athletic profile and improve them. Plenty of GAA club players playing rugby too. I think the IRFU rarely put a foot wrong. The GAA should take a look at how they market their game and do primary schools coaching in non-traditional rugby areas. Cúl Camps alone won't keep children in foitball and hurling. With these rules they've definitely improved the standard of rugby worldwide, makes it a better watch for television. But are they and the IRFU getting greedy because of the increased revenue that brings?"
Possibly disingenuous to state that we haven't bettered 'that level' with imports, referring to 2009.

Our record v All Blacks is 5-32-1 in 38 meetings. All FIVE wins (including a series win in NZ) occurred since 2016, let alone 2009. That's a stat that simply doesn't support your point about not bettering the 2009 level since.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3985 - 24/02/2025 14:34:10    2592914

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Replying To UtahBlaine:  "You know nothing about Bundee either other than what your reading about him.I have plenty of friends in Galway who wouldnt be singing his praises when he first arrived at Connacht"
I know quite a bit about some of the squad, even what you are alluding to so we are singing off the same hymn sheet, we will leave it at that if that's OK with you.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3124 - 24/02/2025 14:55:52    2592918

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On the bright side, the more foreign talent drafted into rugby should mean less local GAA talent being targeted for a switch over or a less easy path to making it in a switch. Football and hurling is 10 times more entertaining than rugby to me. So keep up the worldwide scouting at the IRFU please.

SaffronDon (Antrim) - Posts: 2522 - 24/02/2025 15:03:24    2592924

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "Possibly disingenuous to state that we haven't bettered 'that level' with imports, referring to 2009.

Our record v All Blacks is 5-32-1 in 38 meetings. All FIVE wins (including a series win in NZ) occurred since 2016, let alone 2009. That's a stat that simply doesn't support your point about not bettering the 2009 level since."
Have we gone past a World Cup quarter final. Did we beat the All Blacks in the last World Cup? The game that mattered.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7802 - 24/02/2025 15:07:51    2592927

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "Possibly disingenuous to state that we haven't bettered 'that level' with imports, referring to 2009.

Our record v All Blacks is 5-32-1 in 38 meetings. All FIVE wins (including a series win in NZ) occurred since 2016, let alone 2009. That's a stat that simply doesn't support your point about not bettering the 2009 level since."
Have we gone past a World Cup quarter final. Did we beat the All Blacks in the last World Cup? The game that mattered.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7802 - 24/02/2025 15:08:38    2592928

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Have we gone past a World Cup quarter final. Did we beat the All Blacks in the last World Cup? The game that mattered."
10 squads have won a RWC. Only 5 squads have won a test series v NZ in NZ. The 2009 Ireland side didn't accomplish either of these feats.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3985 - 24/02/2025 15:17:17    2592930

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "We'll agree to disagree Commodore. I know that imports improve the standard of the national tram temporarily but don't think it's a good long term plan, even when it's pushed out to 5 years residency before playing for Ireland. I heard about Gallagher. Did an All Blacks team recently enough visit Donegal to honour him while they were on tour?"
Yeah, Six members of the All Blacks travelled to Donegal in 2005 to visit his Ramelton memorial, they also visited Letterkenny Rugby Club, who named their then unfinished new ground Dave Gallagher memorial park.

France v New Zealand play always play for the Dave Gallagher Trophy when they meet.

Commodore (Donegal) - Posts: 1290 - 24/02/2025 15:30:46    2592934

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A question to anyone here.

Is the eligibility of some players confined to the Ireland rugby squad only.

Does the same eligibility apply to the Ireland soccer squad for example.

Or those that may represent us at the Olympic games successfully or otherwise.

Or represent us simply at the humble Eurovision song contest.

Or can we simply pick and choose.?
Just asking.

supersub15 (Carlow) - Posts: 3124 - 24/02/2025 15:37:47    2592935

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "10 squads have won a RWC. Only 5 squads have won a test series v NZ in NZ. The 2009 Ireland side didn't accomplish either of these feats."
Fair play to squads that beat New Zealand in competition. When we beat them, out of competition, we were hyped up for Word Cups. Might be part of the reason why three lads, close to, but not good enough for New Zealand, were brought in by Ireland. Seems you're counting test series out of competition as a barometer for success. I'm not. If we ever win a World Cup with imports it still won't be an Irish team.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7802 - 24/02/2025 15:42:14    2592938

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Fair play to squads that beat New Zealand in competition. When we beat them, out of competition, we were hyped up for Word Cups. Might be part of the reason why three lads, close to, but not good enough for New Zealand, were brought in by Ireland. Seems you're counting test series out of competition as a barometer for success. I'm not. If we ever win a World Cup with imports it still won't be an Irish team."
Of course beating NZ at rugby is a barometer of success in rugby football. Ireland have beaten NZ five times since 2016, and never prior to 2016. Also won 2 'in competition' Grand Slams in 2018 and 2023, compared to the 2009 side winning just the one.

I'm not saying Ireland are any good. I'm just saying that your line about recent Irish squads not bettering 'that level' of 2009 is simply false. Results, silverware, world ranking all suggests otherwise.

Pope_Benedict (Galway) - Posts: 3985 - 24/02/2025 16:05:54    2592946

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Replying To Pope_Benedict:  "Of course beating NZ at rugby is a barometer of success in rugby football. Ireland have beaten NZ five times since 2016, and never prior to 2016. Also won 2 'in competition' Grand Slams in 2018 and 2023, compared to the 2009 side winning just the one.

I'm not saying Ireland are any good. I'm just saying that your line about recent Irish squads not bettering 'that level' of 2009 is simply false. Results, silverware, world ranking all suggests otherwise."
Is glorifying New Zealand rugby not part of the problem? Beating them out of competition is giving them a false sense of their ability only to be stuck at quarter final stage at World Cups. And then get New Zealand players to improve the standard of the national team. Where's the confudence in Irish rugby showing there? Fair point on 2019 and 2023 Grand Slam winning teams even if there were a good few changes in between. Winning another Grand Slam is only keeping the level in Europe. Getting to a World Cup semi final would be a better gauge of progress for me. And I wish they could do it with a squad of just Irish players.

GreenandRed (Mayo) - Posts: 7802 - 24/02/2025 17:39:14    2592976

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Replying To GreenandRed:  "Fair play to squads that beat New Zealand in competition. When we beat them, out of competition, we were hyped up for Word Cups. Might be part of the reason why three lads, close to, but not good enough for New Zealand, were brought in by Ireland. Seems you're counting test series out of competition as a barometer for success. I'm not. If we ever win a World Cup with imports it still won't be an Irish team."
The world cup is only a recent addition to the rugby calendar. Probably more commercial and revenue driven than anything else. You can win a world cup without beating all the other top teams in it. Most years its held that is the case. Last time out the Boks won it, after we beat them.
Test series are the original competitive rugby fixtures, as they are in cricket.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 14974 - 24/02/2025 18:12:31    2592987

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Replying To supersub15:  "A question to anyone here.

Is the eligibility of some players confined to the Ireland rugby squad only.

Does the same eligibility apply to the Ireland soccer squad for example.

Or those that may represent us at the Olympic games successfully or otherwise.

Or represent us simply at the humble Eurovision song contest.

Or can we simply pick and choose.?
Just asking."
Well actually in soccer, the imports generally qualify to play for us on ancestry grounds (similar to Hansen in rugby). They're entitled to Irish passports due to having Irish family.
It's different to rugby, where some of the more recent imports, qualified on residency grounds, having moved here to play rugby as adults.
This situation is still fairly unlikely to happen on the soccer side, as we're not likely to have players of international quality move to our domestic league, and not have been capped by their own country already.

WanPintWin (Galway) - Posts: 2242 - 24/02/2025 18:28:42    2592991

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Replying To supersub15:  "I know quite a bit about some of the squad, even what you are alluding to so we are singing off the same hymn sheet, we will leave it at that if that's OK with you."
Fair enough.The only gripe I have is that I too am an Irish citizen who pays his taxes and i don't take too kindly to being called inferior to someone I would'nt particularly like, but each to their own I suppose .

UtahBlaine (Galway) - Posts: 153 - 24/02/2025 18:59:29    2592999

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Replying To Viking66:  "The world cup is only a recent addition to the rugby calendar. Probably more commercial and revenue driven than anything else. You can win a world cup without beating all the other top teams in it. Most years its held that is the case. Last time out the Boks won it, after we beat them.
Test series are the original competitive rugby fixtures, as they are in cricket."
That's the same in all sports you name it by way of them been knockout competitions you only play a handful of top players.

As in seed 1 at Wimbledon will only max have to beat 3 players seeded 2-8

Football World Cup
Wimbledon
World Darts
All Ireland football
Champions league

jm25 (Galway) - Posts: 1363 - 24/02/2025 20:38:38    2593011

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Replying To Viking66:  "The world cup is only a recent addition to the rugby calendar. Probably more commercial and revenue driven than anything else. You can win a world cup without beating all the other top teams in it. Most years its held that is the case. Last time out the Boks won it, after we beat them.
Test series are the original competitive rugby fixtures, as they are in cricket."
Test series are only glorified challenge games where a win over NZ or the like gets the Irish rugger chaps all giddy and above their station before moving on to the real business of the World Cup where we continually tip the load at the Quarter Final stage …! Beating the Boks as you call them didn't mean a whole pile when the team were all sitting at home when the World Cup final was on… which the Boks won ….. they know how to win when it really matters..!!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3518 - 24/02/2025 21:20:15    2593018

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Replying To Viking66:  "The world cup is only a recent addition to the rugby calendar. Probably more commercial and revenue driven than anything else. You can win a world cup without beating all the other top teams in it. Most years its held that is the case. Last time out the Boks won it, after we beat them.
Test series are the original competitive rugby fixtures, as they are in cricket."
Test series are only glorified challenge games where a win over NZ or the like gets the Irish rugger chaps all giddy and above their station before moving on to the real business of the World Cup where we continually tip the load at the Quarter Final stage …! Beating the Boks as you call them didn't mean a whole pile when the team were all sitting at home when the World Cup final was on… which the Boks won ….. they know how to win when it really matters..!!

ForeverBlue2 (Cavan) - Posts: 3518 - 24/02/2025 21:29:38    2593025

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