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The split season needs to go

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1661 - 17/11/2024 23:43:29    2580070

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Replying To Overthebar53:  "They did OK in fairness to them .Absolute nonsense that St.mullins have to compete under such a disadvantage due to the obstinacy of our Co. Board."
After today, I've changed my mind.

Split season has to go.

I was wrong.

It was clear Mullins only got motoring in the second half.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 727 - 18/11/2024 00:52:37    2580074

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Replying To CARPS:  "After today, I've changed my mind.

Split season has to go.

I was wrong.

It was clear Mullins only got motoring in the second half."
The original agreement was that if hurling is played first one year, than football would be played first the following, but that has never materialised. As far as I know its the clubs that vote on this matter and Hurling clubs within the county insist on their championship been played first, so you can say what you want about the long break but it all comes back to the clubs voting. I think they should go back or at least adopt the Wexford model for championships and play on AlterNet weeks hurling every second week with football every other week.

Milfordwaterboy (Carlow) - Posts: 6 - 18/11/2024 09:32:44    2580091

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Replying To CARPS:  "After today, I've changed my mind.

Split season has to go.

I was wrong.

It was clear Mullins only got motoring in the second half."
Wasn't the split season introduced to increase playing numbers in struggling hurling clubs and football strongholds? There has definitely been a growth in Kildavin, Ballon and Carlow town, with further time and development needed in those clubs to establish stronger roots.

I think the question to be asked is - What is more important, our county champions reaching a Leinster semi final/final or a greater number of competitive senior teams?

Repeat1944 (Carlow) - Posts: 9 - 18/11/2024 09:36:54    2580093

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If we get rid of the split season we'll kill off hurling in the county altogether! We're just starting to revive clubs that haven't hurled in years. That kilcormac team have some generational talents, I'm not sure St Mullins would beat them playing them 4 weeks after a county final either!

benchtoaster (Carlow) - Posts: 37 - 18/11/2024 12:17:12    2580133

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Replying To Repeat1944:  "Wasn't the split season introduced to increase playing numbers in struggling hurling clubs and football strongholds? There has definitely been a growth in Kildavin, Ballon and Carlow town, with further time and development needed in those clubs to establish stronger roots.

I think the question to be asked is - What is more important, our county champions reaching a Leinster semi final/final or a greater number of competitive senior teams?"
That's exactly what it comes down to. It's certainly not ideal for the Co Champions to be coming in cold, but 2 weeks on/off absolutely hurts clubs trying to develop hurling when coopeting with football.

I wonder would people be more in favour of something similar to the below, as an alternative to split/2 weeks on? Based on this years calendar, with first fixture's of Hurling Champ starting on 21st June, the first four weeks would be hurling, then a break for the football to start and finish, then play out remainder of hurling championship. Below is a quick mock up schedule as an example.

Week of Code Stage
21-Jun
28-Jun Hurling R1
05-Jul Hurling R2
12-Jul Hurling R3
19-Jul Hurling R4
26-Jul
02-Aug Football R1
09-Aug Football R2
16-Aug EP
23-Aug Football R3
30-Aug Football QF
06-Sep Football SF
13-Sep Football F
20-Sep Football Replay
27-Sep Hurling R5
04-Oct Hurling R6
11-Oct Hurling SF
18-Oct Hurling F
25-Oct Hurling Replay
01-Nov Football Leinster
08-Nov Football Leinster
15-Nov Hurling Leinster

TaosHum (Carlow) - Posts: 250 - 18/11/2024 14:00:47    2580150

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Replying To Repeat1944:  "Wasn't the split season introduced to increase playing numbers in struggling hurling clubs and football strongholds? There has definitely been a growth in Kildavin, Ballon and Carlow town, with further time and development needed in those clubs to establish stronger roots.

I think the question to be asked is - What is more important, our county champions reaching a Leinster semi final/final or a greater number of competitive senior teams?"
The ideal situation would be more dual clubs.

The problem with the split season is that it condenses hurling into a very tight window.

Say you're a Kildavin hurler? You put down your caman in August and you won't pick it up again until probably June of next year. That's 10 months of no hurling at all.

There's even senior county players who haven't played a game since early August.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 727 - 18/11/2024 14:04:54    2580152

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Replying To CARPS:  "The ideal situation would be more dual clubs.

The problem with the split season is that it condenses hurling into a very tight window.

Say you're a Kildavin hurler? You put down your caman in August and you won't pick it up again until probably June of next year. That's 10 months of no hurling at all.

There's even senior county players who haven't played a game since early August."
That's madness. I would have Carlow as a hurling county. MLR run in the senior club a number of years ago

BaileCrann (Down) - Posts: 36 - 18/11/2024 15:16:20    2580164

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Hard luck to St Mullins yesterday gave away a poor goal to go 7 down. Got it back to 3 and really needed to get the next score then to put more pressure on. Was impressed with kk and how they responded always keeping them at arms length.

Long lay off really didn't help with a lot of dropped passes and poor touches in first half for majority of second half I thought st . Mullins where better team. But didn't convert chances.

With all our teams now out of Leinster competition poor trading of ,5 games 0 wins for Carlow teams.

ITSCHOLAR (Carlow) - Posts: 302 - 18/11/2024 15:25:09    2580165

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Replying To benchtoaster:  "If we get rid of the split season we'll kill off hurling in the county altogether! We're just starting to revive clubs that haven't hurled in years. That kilcormac team have some generational talents, I'm not sure St Mullins would beat them playing them 4 weeks after a county final either!"
But St Mullins also have some generational talents - that's the whole point.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 727 - 18/11/2024 18:41:12    2580200

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Replying To benchtoaster:  "If we get rid of the split season we'll kill off hurling in the county altogether! We're just starting to revive clubs that haven't hurled in years. That kilcormac team have some generational talents, I'm not sure St Mullins would beat them playing them 4 weeks after a county final either!"
I agree that if we revert to changing the split season to gain a shorter time frame for our county hurling winners to compete in Leinster it will definitely have the effect of killing hurling where it competes directly with football and that means in Carlow town especially. Kildavin would focus on football solely and as for Naomh Brid - that would again put their development back years.
Hurling needs to be about promoted.
We should avoid knee jerk reactions to St Mullins loss yesterday.

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1849 - 18/11/2024 21:46:11    2580221

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I've said this a while back, the split season needs to go for a number of reasons, the condensing of championships helps no one, one hamstring injury and you miss the entirety of the football championship, having a split season was a novelty for a while, it's going to make our club teams weaker in the long run, what's the point in training for 10 months when your championship is 6 weeks? Lads will just start training in June and finish in September, we've county hurlers who'll now go nearly 7 months without playing a meaningful game of hurling (July - Jan when NHL starts), who's that benefiting? The argument that clubs have had a resurgence of hurling with the split season is nonsense, one club has started a team, Kildavin, and Palatine have folded theirs so net gain zero. Carlow Towns senior team hasn't improved at all, their underage success has nothing to do with a split season as the underage system is run on alternate weeks. CT put a huge amount of effort into restarting their underage system about 10 years ago and fair play to them, if want more people playing hurling start with kids, if we're relying on grown men to change their minds about playing hurling or not we're in a tough place, put as much money into resources into underage as possible. I don't know if Mullins would have won on Sunday if there wasn't a split season but they definitely would have gotten closer, they played their final nearly 3 months ago on much better ground, playing their next competitive match in winter conditions is no help, Wexford champions haven't won since the brought in the split season, they get rid of it and what happens? Martins win against a decent Naas side. Are we the only genuine dual county in Ireland still doing a split season?

CRTW (Carlow) - Posts: 19 - 19/11/2024 08:23:45    2580244

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Replying To CRTW:  "I've said this a while back, the split season needs to go for a number of reasons, the condensing of championships helps no one, one hamstring injury and you miss the entirety of the football championship, having a split season was a novelty for a while, it's going to make our club teams weaker in the long run, what's the point in training for 10 months when your championship is 6 weeks? Lads will just start training in June and finish in September, we've county hurlers who'll now go nearly 7 months without playing a meaningful game of hurling (July - Jan when NHL starts), who's that benefiting? The argument that clubs have had a resurgence of hurling with the split season is nonsense, one club has started a team, Kildavin, and Palatine have folded theirs so net gain zero. Carlow Towns senior team hasn't improved at all, their underage success has nothing to do with a split season as the underage system is run on alternate weeks. CT put a huge amount of effort into restarting their underage system about 10 years ago and fair play to them, if want more people playing hurling start with kids, if we're relying on grown men to change their minds about playing hurling or not we're in a tough place, put as much money into resources into underage as possible. I don't know if Mullins would have won on Sunday if there wasn't a split season but they definitely would have gotten closer, they played their final nearly 3 months ago on much better ground, playing their next competitive match in winter conditions is no help, Wexford champions haven't won since the brought in the split season, they get rid of it and what happens? Martins win against a decent Naas side. Are we the only genuine dual county in Ireland still doing a split season?"
I think we should bring ours back. The standard of hurling and football was noticeably worse this year, as was to be expected with most of the players playing both for their clubs. They are completely different games with completely different skillsets. Hard for a lad to be at his best for both when he's jumping between them every couple of weeks.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 19/11/2024 09:18:34    2580249

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Replying To CRTW:  "I've said this a while back, the split season needs to go for a number of reasons, the condensing of championships helps no one, one hamstring injury and you miss the entirety of the football championship, having a split season was a novelty for a while, it's going to make our club teams weaker in the long run, what's the point in training for 10 months when your championship is 6 weeks? Lads will just start training in June and finish in September, we've county hurlers who'll now go nearly 7 months without playing a meaningful game of hurling (July - Jan when NHL starts), who's that benefiting? The argument that clubs have had a resurgence of hurling with the split season is nonsense, one club has started a team, Kildavin, and Palatine have folded theirs so net gain zero. Carlow Towns senior team hasn't improved at all, their underage success has nothing to do with a split season as the underage system is run on alternate weeks. CT put a huge amount of effort into restarting their underage system about 10 years ago and fair play to them, if want more people playing hurling start with kids, if we're relying on grown men to change their minds about playing hurling or not we're in a tough place, put as much money into resources into underage as possible. I don't know if Mullins would have won on Sunday if there wasn't a split season but they definitely would have gotten closer, they played their final nearly 3 months ago on much better ground, playing their next competitive match in winter conditions is no help, Wexford champions haven't won since the brought in the split season, they get rid of it and what happens? Martins win against a decent Naas side. Are we the only genuine dual county in Ireland still doing a split season?"
Martins win was great. I was there. But they had the better hurlers and were fit. Our last few champions weren't really fit, or weren't neccessarily the best team we have. Alot depends on the luck of the draw and luck on the day. Mullins started slowly, and the injuries to the wingbacks in the week leading up to the game hampered them also. They still reached a Leinster club Final only a couple of years ago.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 19/11/2024 09:22:24    2580251

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Replying To carlowman:  "I agree that if we revert to changing the split season to gain a shorter time frame for our county hurling winners to compete in Leinster it will definitely have the effect of killing hurling where it competes directly with football and that means in Carlow town especially. Kildavin would focus on football solely and as for Naomh Brid - that would again put their development back years.
Hurling needs to be about promoted.
We should avoid knee jerk reactions to St Mullins loss yesterday."
You mean the same Naomh Brid who couldn't field a team this year, despite not having to compete with football?

Also, Carlow Town have improved a bit. But they are still a poor intermediate team.

It's not like they've come on leaps and bounds.

CARPS (Carlow) - Posts: 727 - 19/11/2024 10:04:09    2580260

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Replying To Viking66:  "Martins win was great. I was there. But they had the better hurlers and were fit. Our last few champions weren't really fit, or weren't neccessarily the best team we have. Alot depends on the luck of the draw and luck on the day. Mullins started slowly, and the injuries to the wingbacks in the week leading up to the game hampered them also. They still reached a Leinster club Final only a couple of years ago."
I don't dispute the later points but I just can't see how one team having a 3 month lay off and another team playing competitive hurling consistently in the weeks leading up the match doesn't have an effect.

CRTW (Carlow) - Posts: 19 - 19/11/2024 10:17:32    2580263

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Replying To CRTW:  "I don't dispute the later points but I just can't see how one team having a 3 month lay off and another team playing competitive hurling consistently in the weeks leading up the match doesn't have an effect."
It does for sure have an effect. But what's most important? Raising the standard of hurling as a whole in the county, or ensuring 3 clubs each year have the best chance of doing well in Leinster?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13862 - 19/11/2024 11:25:43    2580284

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Replying To Viking66:  "It does for sure have an effect. But what's most important? Raising the standard of hurling as a whole in the county, or ensuring 3 clubs each year have the best chance of doing well in Leinster?"
How is lads not playing meaningful games for 7 months going to raise the standard of hurling? In some cases you could argue lads aren't playing meaningful games for 10 months, Carlow's club hurling league is anonymous. I'm not sure what Wexford club is like I've no interest in it so you could be right, maybe Wexford's club scene has regressed, I'd just like to see alternate weeks again for a few years, for Carlow I think it needs a change anyway

CRTW (Carlow) - Posts: 19 - 19/11/2024 11:59:25    2580288

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There is so much plain wrong thinking in this split season idea. You're not going to promote hurling by playing a compact micro season that's over in summer. You need a longer campaign where clubs get a chance to actually build over the season. As its stands that can't happen in either code. A good win is quickly put to one side as the next game is so close. You don't really get a chance to sort out any issues that arise in games either as its so compact You're lucky if you can get one quality session in between games. A hamstring injury is now a season ender which is ridiculous. By having such a compact season your social media exposure is cut and local media time is lessened which surely must have an effect on promotion of the game.
As for football. Well you play a league that ends in may and you don't have a competitive game until near the end of August. Absolute madness. You play your 3 group games in 3 weeks with quarter final the following week by which time only 4 teams are left. You get no sense of build up to games and very little chance to fix problems. I would like to see a fixed season where both sports get some room to breathe but an end to the split season

Barrowsider (Carlow) - Posts: 1661 - 19/11/2024 14:02:18    2580314

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Replying To CRTW:  "How is lads not playing meaningful games for 7 months going to raise the standard of hurling? In some cases you could argue lads aren't playing meaningful games for 10 months, Carlow's club hurling league is anonymous. I'm not sure what Wexford club is like I've no interest in it so you could be right, maybe Wexford's club scene has regressed, I'd just like to see alternate weeks again for a few years, for Carlow I think it needs a change anyway"
The basic point remains. Bring back the old system and you kill hurling.
What is the GAA about - is it winning championships or involvement through active participation ?
Our hurlers representing our county have been way more successful than our footballers.
Yet when our 3 football teams have recently played out their championships none of them could muster a win and 2 of them were paying in NCP !

A good friend of mine has a saying- the biggest problem hurling has is football.
If we were to listen and follow footballs lead.we would win nothing in hurling either.
Don't kill hurling !

carlowman (Carlow) - Posts: 1849 - 19/11/2024 14:16:23    2580315

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