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Wexford Football Championship

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Replying To tearintom:  "So you think that a manager with the same credentials would be put in place in the 1st place for the hurlers and left there?

Banty got us promotion to division 3 and yes Galvin was a disaster.

The fact is for the footballers the league is ultimately where its at, thats how we built back in the late 90's and early part of this century to get the footballers competeing and even more so its the case with the Tailteann Cup. Ive watched our footballers and be told how we are playing good football, thats great only for the fact we arent winning and Division 4 football is won by being dogged and hard to beat."
Agree with everything there. Div 4 isn't a place for flowery football. Galvin was a complete disaster. Yes Banty got us to div3. And yes I remember going to see our team working it's way into div1 of the League by the early noughties.
But I think you are putting the cart before the horse in 1 important way. We are, by League rankings, only the 30th best county in Ireland. We are also quite a long way from Footballs stronger counties over the last 10 years. Mayo, Galway, Kerry and the Ulster counties are all not a practical commute away. When Shane Roche got the job it was mid season when the other man legged it. he got a year and a half term which is expiring now soon. I can't think of any Dubs who we didn't already have who you could call a marquee manager in any way. And it would be a big IF if any would want to come as we are now worse than when Banty came. When Banty came we had won twice in div3 the previous season and were unlucky in other games that year 2. We were unlucky to get relegated in the 1st place. We had in Lyng, Banville and Brosnan 3 top intercounty forwards. Kevin O Grady played well that year too. Tiernan Rossiter coming through. Malone and Panther. We were a much more attractive proposition than we were last year to a top manager.
The hurlers were able to attract Davy first then Darragh because they are competitive at the top table. When they weren't we got Colm Bonnar who had very little top level managerial experience and he was a disaster. Tbh he doesn't seem to be any better now either.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13650 - 26/05/2022 15:43:21    2420383

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "If Darragh Egan suddenly announced tonight that he was resigning from the senior hurling job, I'd expect the role to go to Willie Cleary for the rest of the year, in the same way that the football job went to one of Galvin's selectors when Galvin resigned.

And then if Cleary also convinced the Co. Board that he had a plan and vision for the year or two ahead, and would like a chance to put it into practice, I'd expect him to be given the job for another year or two, in the same way that Roche was appointed to the football position.

In all fairness, I think you're reaching for an argument here."
Look maybe youre right, i have my doubt though to be honest.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1421 - 26/05/2022 15:51:31    2420388

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Replying To tearintom:  "You could be right in regards to him stepping down.

I think for the past few years it has been a case of "ah sure let him at it" and my point wasnt in regards to just a big name, in fact ive never mentioned anything to do with a big name just pointing out that if it was the hurlers the same situation it wouldnt have happened or been allowed to.

And again youre missing the point about underage, like i said Derek Mc Grath in Laois led to a huge upsurge in interest in underage hurling, so youre telling me the same couldnt happen in Wexford? Is Laois hurling underage not attractive then yet look at them?

I think your post perfectly encaspsulates the attitude to football in the county to be honest, "what? get in someone with a bit of a name at underage for the football to see if it can generate some interest, shur whats the point, not even enough interest in the county itself"

My point is looking outside the box at what others have done to see if we can generate some more interest in it but again, i done firmly believe the appetite is there for it, i hope im wrong."
You're entitled to think I'm missing the point about underage, but as it happens, I think you're missing the point too.

Likewise, if you think I'm showing a typical attitude towards football, I think you're showing a typical attitude of what might be termed "football people" - "sure it's all the County Board's fault for not doing enough. It's nothing to do with my own club or any other club either."

Fact of the matter is that it's hard to get people here involved with underage county squads, and the further you go down through the ages, the harder it gets. Any "big name" or other respected coach from outside the county is hardly going to take that as a positive sign if they're invited to Wexford to try make a difference.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2577 - 26/05/2022 16:29:10    2420394

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Replying To tearintom:  "You could be right in regards to him stepping down.

I think for the past few years it has been a case of "ah sure let him at it" and my point wasnt in regards to just a big name, in fact ive never mentioned anything to do with a big name just pointing out that if it was the hurlers the same situation it wouldnt have happened or been allowed to.

And again youre missing the point about underage, like i said Derek Mc Grath in Laois led to a huge upsurge in interest in underage hurling, so youre telling me the same couldnt happen in Wexford? Is Laois hurling underage not attractive then yet look at them?

I think your post perfectly encaspsulates the attitude to football in the county to be honest, "what? get in someone with a bit of a name at underage for the football to see if it can generate some interest, shur whats the point, not even enough interest in the county itself"

My point is looking outside the box at what others have done to see if we can generate some more interest in it but again, i done firmly believe the appetite is there for it, i hope im wrong."
There was a huge upsurge in work at underage in Laois going back a decade or so. Same as Westmeath. Laois have 8 Senior clubs who would be around the same standard as our 12. I wouldn't go crediting Derek with that as he's only been involved a couple of years. His input into this year's minor team he deserves credit for. But no more than that.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13650 - 26/05/2022 16:33:43    2420395

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "You're entitled to think I'm missing the point about underage, but as it happens, I think you're missing the point too.

Likewise, if you think I'm showing a typical attitude towards football, I think you're showing a typical attitude of what might be termed "football people" - "sure it's all the County Board's fault for not doing enough. It's nothing to do with my own club or any other club either."

Fact of the matter is that it's hard to get people here involved with underage county squads, and the further you go down through the ages, the harder it gets. Any "big name" or other respected coach from outside the county is hardly going to take that as a positive sign if they're invited to Wexford to try make a difference."
Im actually dual, pro both btw but dont let that get in the way of things.

But again with the same "shur whats the point attitude"

And no the county board traditionally havent done enough, if you believe they have then your walking around with blinkers on, i mean its not that long ago we had a Chairman who said he would happily burst every football in the county and we have our best ever player talking on national podcasts detailing the difference in treatment he experienced in treatement of county teams between the codes!

But sure probably just the fault of the clubs that!!

But you are right, it can be hard to get people involved, their isnt the level of interest there that should be, hence my appeal to try some different things to get that interest going, particularly underage but again we go back to the default setting "shur whats the point"

Like i said try something different maybe to get the interest back up, hopefully that will come but wheres it been when hurling 365 was in full flow?

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1421 - 26/05/2022 17:06:54    2420396

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Replying To tearintom:  "For me though it's very simple, it needs to start from the top down

With the greatest of respect to Shane Roche we need a change and one that makes it look like we are actually taking this seriously.

Let's be honest if the roles were reversed would a manager with the same credentials be considered long term for the hurlers? Of course not yet the attitude in Wexford ah sure it's good enough for the footballers.

Even if they're not willing to do that for our senior team which I think is the case tbh, i think there's an element of just being happy enough to let things potter along as they are what about underage and starting there?

Look at what Laois done underage in getting Derek Mc Grath in to help with their underage hurling, I know from family up that way that there's been a huge upsurge in interest at underage from that one move alone cos it sends out a message "Jesus they got Derek Mc Grath in, well that shows they mean business" and kids who may have otherwise swayed to football and even other sports suddenly doubled down on the hurling.

Yep there is a review started so let's see what comes from it."
I'm afraid tearintom, I think you are getting things the wrong way around. I know I'm an outsider and always will be but as a club, we promote both football and hurling equally.

I remember the lightbulb moment on the hurling fields. It was a minor defeat to Carlow, I don't know what year. But I remember people saying "we can kid ourselves regarding underage coaching, or we can admit it is atrocious and do something about it". Wexford clubs started to put huge effort in to the very young children and decided to take tough medicine for a few years. Eventually, things started to improve and the quality of coaching improved and the 3 x U21 titles were the result after a few near misses in minor.
But in the meantime, Liam Dunne took over the hurlers and to be frank, nobody wanted the job.

Wexford football at that very same lightbulb moment in my outside view. The quality of coaching, the effort in many clubs, is not good enough and as I said before, we used to play teams in New Ross district where we never got a result who we now routinely beat because they have dropped the ball. That is the fault of the clubs themselves and when looking for blame, the first place to look is the mirror.

The easiest thing for the co. board is to do is go out and find the next Banty, Galvin or whatever your mercenary of choice. Then what? Rinse, repeat? No offence but do you think the Wexford players are underachieving? To be straight, I don't. I think they are where they are.

I have contacts in Laois and they put not 1 iota of the run of the minor team down to Derek McGrath, and they also could string him alive after the loss to Offaly and his inaction on the line. There are plenty in the Harriers who don't talk highly of him either if you ask.

Do not get me wrong, I would love a successful football team in my adopted county. I just think its a rebuild from scratch job. And that involves every club in the county upping their game, not just saying "that co. board"....

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1256 - 26/05/2022 18:06:10    2420404

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Replying To tearintom:  "Im actually dual, pro both btw but dont let that get in the way of things.

But again with the same "shur whats the point attitude"

And no the county board traditionally havent done enough, if you believe they have then your walking around with blinkers on, i mean its not that long ago we had a Chairman who said he would happily burst every football in the county and we have our best ever player talking on national podcasts detailing the difference in treatment he experienced in treatement of county teams between the codes!

But sure probably just the fault of the clubs that!!

But you are right, it can be hard to get people involved, their isnt the level of interest there that should be, hence my appeal to try some different things to get that interest going, particularly underage but again we go back to the default setting "shur whats the point"

Like i said try something different maybe to get the interest back up, hopefully that will come but wheres it been when hurling 365 was in full flow?"
I think the 1st point of contact most kids get with hurling or football is their parents. Next then is the local club those parents bring their kids too. I puck a ball around with the kids but when the eldest was smaller, 2 or 3, all we did was kick ball. While he is alot more interested in hurling now after a couple of years, mainly because he is better able to hurl now, he still prefers football. Our club is even straight down the line football and hurling. Training sessions at underage alternate between football and hurling and the lads in my eldest sons age group have played a pretty even amount of hurling and football games against other clubs. The club fields 2 adult teams in both codes and is Intermediate in both codes. There are members who prefer hurling and others who prefer football. There are a few adults who only play one or the other but by far the majority play both. As far as I've been able to see from talking to friends who are members of other clubs around here, say the New Ross District primarily, that's the case in their clubs also.
Where there is a big difference though is that more lads I know around here prefer to watch a game of hurling than a game of football. Me included. I'd bring the kids to club and intercounty games, senior, u20 and minor, in both codes, but I'd prefer watching hurling if I was to be totally honest. Back in the 90s I was fairly evenly split between watching hurling and football but modern football has gone slower and more tactical. Like modern soccer too which I'm alot less interested in watching than I used to be. Probably would prefer a good game of rugby to watch than soccer or football these days tbh. And therein lies the problem at the root of it all.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13650 - 26/05/2022 18:42:33    2420413

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Replying To tearintom:  "Im actually dual, pro both btw but dont let that get in the way of things.

But again with the same "shur whats the point attitude"

And no the county board traditionally havent done enough, if you believe they have then your walking around with blinkers on, i mean its not that long ago we had a Chairman who said he would happily burst every football in the county and we have our best ever player talking on national podcasts detailing the difference in treatment he experienced in treatement of county teams between the codes!

But sure probably just the fault of the clubs that!!

But you are right, it can be hard to get people involved, their isnt the level of interest there that should be, hence my appeal to try some different things to get that interest going, particularly underage but again we go back to the default setting "shur whats the point"

Like i said try something different maybe to get the interest back up, hopefully that will come but wheres it been when hurling 365 was in full flow?"
Not sure a stupid statement by a somewhat controversial chairman, what must be 12 or more years ago at this stage, has any great relevance today.

Don't know what podcast you're referring to, but would be interested in hearing it - can you point me towards it?

Overall, maybe we can agree it's a bit of a Catch 22 situation. Maybe bringing in a well-resepected outside coach at underage level would inspire more people here to become involved at county level too....but probably hard to attract such a person in the first place, when there's such a lack of enthusiasm among people here who could get involved.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2577 - 26/05/2022 21:47:46    2420425

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Replying To Pikeman96:  "Not sure a stupid statement by a somewhat controversial chairman, what must be 12 or more years ago at this stage, has any great relevance today.

Don't know what podcast you're referring to, but would be interested in hearing it - can you point me towards it?

Overall, maybe we can agree it's a bit of a Catch 22 situation. Maybe bringing in a well-resepected outside coach at underage level would inspire more people here to become involved at county level too....but probably hard to attract such a person in the first place, when there's such a lack of enthusiasm among people here who could get involved."
Yeah i agree, it is a catch 22 situation to be fair, i can see that in regards to getting the interest going, do you try something to generate the interest and is there enough interest to warrant trying something.

Personally i think at this stage football in the county does deserve something though, just to see.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1421 - 27/05/2022 09:58:36    2420437

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "I'm afraid tearintom, I think you are getting things the wrong way around. I know I'm an outsider and always will be but as a club, we promote both football and hurling equally.

I remember the lightbulb moment on the hurling fields. It was a minor defeat to Carlow, I don't know what year. But I remember people saying "we can kid ourselves regarding underage coaching, or we can admit it is atrocious and do something about it". Wexford clubs started to put huge effort in to the very young children and decided to take tough medicine for a few years. Eventually, things started to improve and the quality of coaching improved and the 3 x U21 titles were the result after a few near misses in minor.
But in the meantime, Liam Dunne took over the hurlers and to be frank, nobody wanted the job.

Wexford football at that very same lightbulb moment in my outside view. The quality of coaching, the effort in many clubs, is not good enough and as I said before, we used to play teams in New Ross district where we never got a result who we now routinely beat because they have dropped the ball. That is the fault of the clubs themselves and when looking for blame, the first place to look is the mirror.

The easiest thing for the co. board is to do is go out and find the next Banty, Galvin or whatever your mercenary of choice. Then what? Rinse, repeat? No offence but do you think the Wexford players are underachieving? To be straight, I don't. I think they are where they are.

I have contacts in Laois and they put not 1 iota of the run of the minor team down to Derek McGrath, and they also could string him alive after the loss to Offaly and his inaction on the line. There are plenty in the Harriers who don't talk highly of him either if you ask.

Do not get me wrong, I would love a successful football team in my adopted county. I just think its a rebuild from scratch job. And that involves every club in the county upping their game, not just saying "that co. board"...."
You are right and wrong.

Yep lightbulb moment for the hurlers was 2006 when Carlow beat them, but no it wasnt just the Clubs, it was also at County board level that decisions were made and it was a case of we need to improve things and effort was put in by clubs and county board after that lightbulb moment to improve the level of hurling and hurling 365 was brought in etc etc. Improvement was pushed by the county board and they deserve credit.

So what might might be a lightbulb moment say for the footballers to have the same level of scrutiny is it now? Or would it be say a minor football defeat to say...Kilkenny maybe??

Now what year did that happen? Clue is above!!

But again yes it does take clubs to do more but it also takes support from the powers that be along the same level as what happened with hurling following a 2006 defeat to Carlow and the football 365 started when!!!! Do you honestly believe the same level of support has been there from Co Board level?

No, its not all on the county board but also no its not all on the Clubs either.

Im not calling for a galvin or Banty im calling for a different approach maybe to football in the county, whats wrong with that?

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1421 - 27/05/2022 10:20:36    2420444

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Hurling 365 is max 5 years old?
Who are the "county board"? Who forms them? The clubs.
The co. board could get Jim Gavin down to train the u10's in Bannow and if they don't have the drive from within the club and a will to get better there is only so much the co. board can do without total buy in from the clubs?

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1256 - 27/05/2022 11:49:54    2420462

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tearintim you ask, is there the same interest in football at co. board level? No there isn't.
Is there the same interest in clubs in football? In some, yes. In others, no. But there is no denying that there are clubs who are under performing in football, in particular many in the New Ross district. This is not the co. boards fault, it is not hurling 365's fault, it is nobody's fault but the clubs themselves.
Wexford can be a dual county and originally from a dual county, I love to see. And as a bigger fan of the small ball in Dublin, I can sympathise with Wexford football and unquestionably they deserve equal treatment. But there is only so much the co. board can do if the coaching isn't good enough there then nothing will improve. It is easy to play the poor old us card.
But roll on the review and I hope to see the complaints on here feature prominently.

ExiledInWex (Dublin) - Posts: 1256 - 27/05/2022 12:07:36    2420466

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "Hurling 365 is max 5 years old?
Who are the "county board"? Who forms them? The clubs.
The co. board could get Jim Gavin down to train the u10's in Bannow and if they don't have the drive from within the club and a will to get better there is only so much the co. board can do without total buy in from the clubs?"
Very valid point about the County Board here. Some people talk as though there's a complete disconnect between it and other GAA activity in the county. Reality is that every County Board member is also a club member, as clued in as anybody to what's going on in their own clubs, and other clubs too.

Also that they're nominated and elected by clubs in the first place. If any club or group of clubs is not happy with the County Board, it's open to them every single year to nominate and vote for better people to fill those positions instead.

County Board recently announced a full football review. Am sure the people leading it would love to hear good suggestions and concrete proposals from anybody who complains here or anywhere else that not enough is being done for football in the county.

Pikeman96 (Wexford) - Posts: 2577 - 27/05/2022 15:57:16    2420514

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Replying To ExiledInWex:  "tearintim you ask, is there the same interest in football at co. board level? No there isn't.
Is there the same interest in clubs in football? In some, yes. In others, no. But there is no denying that there are clubs who are under performing in football, in particular many in the New Ross district. This is not the co. boards fault, it is not hurling 365's fault, it is nobody's fault but the clubs themselves.
Wexford can be a dual county and originally from a dual county, I love to see. And as a bigger fan of the small ball in Dublin, I can sympathise with Wexford football and unquestionably they deserve equal treatment. But there is only so much the co. board can do if the coaching isn't good enough there then nothing will improve. It is easy to play the poor old us card.
But roll on the review and I hope to see the complaints on here feature prominently."
In fairness I do think tearintom sees that the clubs need to do better however he is also right in that there needs to belief from the top in the game and that is perhaps what is missing. Like clubs they may say and look as if they are promoting the game equally but the reality is they are not. Clubs say that they promote the game equally but then in underage they have one or two lads over hurling and football who is left unchecked and who just doesn't have the interest to take the coaching for football or do it, so the skills coaching at underage is non existent. So at the top clubs can say they promote it equally but what structures do they put in place to make sure that happens. Clubs can get their house in order without the help of the board but it would be good if the board was amble to help them on what structures they need to put in place to ensure it happens. Also look at what happened last year in the U20 - played out in December, they played the U20 hurling during the hurling championship why could they not have started that earlier and then continued on with the Football. The split I think needs to go, the last Senior football game is the league Final on June 1st and then there is not anything until August - can't remember the date so 2-3mths of no activity during the summer. That is just wrong, if a lad doesn't play hurling what does he do - we will not increase participation in the towns in particular going that way.

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1897 - 28/05/2022 10:37:01    2420561

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Replying To zinny:  "In fairness I do think tearintom sees that the clubs need to do better however he is also right in that there needs to belief from the top in the game and that is perhaps what is missing. Like clubs they may say and look as if they are promoting the game equally but the reality is they are not. Clubs say that they promote the game equally but then in underage they have one or two lads over hurling and football who is left unchecked and who just doesn't have the interest to take the coaching for football or do it, so the skills coaching at underage is non existent. So at the top clubs can say they promote it equally but what structures do they put in place to make sure that happens. Clubs can get their house in order without the help of the board but it would be good if the board was amble to help them on what structures they need to put in place to ensure it happens. Also look at what happened last year in the U20 - played out in December, they played the U20 hurling during the hurling championship why could they not have started that earlier and then continued on with the Football. The split I think needs to go, the last Senior football game is the league Final on June 1st and then there is not anything until August - can't remember the date so 2-3mths of no activity during the summer. That is just wrong, if a lad doesn't play hurling what does he do - we will not increase participation in the towns in particular going that way."
100%

The u20 is a case in point along with the split season. Yet people on here would have you believe everything possible is being done by the county board and all the fault lies with the clubs. This is the bit that gets to me to be honest.

Of course clubs can and need to do more but they also need support in doing so.

The split season is a disaster, let's leave lads doing nothing for nigh on 2 months and then start playing football the same time all the other sports that take from football are kicking off ie rugby and soccer for example.

But of course it's all the clubs fault!

Make suggestions to try something else and get shot down with ah shur what's the point, I hope I'm wrong but I can see the review being set up going along the same lines.

Personally I would have liked it to be overseen by an outsider with no allegiance within the county to either sport but let's see what comes from it.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1421 - 28/05/2022 13:37:17    2420594

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Replying To zinny:  "In fairness I do think tearintom sees that the clubs need to do better however he is also right in that there needs to belief from the top in the game and that is perhaps what is missing. Like clubs they may say and look as if they are promoting the game equally but the reality is they are not. Clubs say that they promote the game equally but then in underage they have one or two lads over hurling and football who is left unchecked and who just doesn't have the interest to take the coaching for football or do it, so the skills coaching at underage is non existent. So at the top clubs can say they promote it equally but what structures do they put in place to make sure that happens. Clubs can get their house in order without the help of the board but it would be good if the board was amble to help them on what structures they need to put in place to ensure it happens. Also look at what happened last year in the U20 - played out in December, they played the U20 hurling during the hurling championship why could they not have started that earlier and then continued on with the Football. The split I think needs to go, the last Senior football game is the league Final on June 1st and then there is not anything until August - can't remember the date so 2-3mths of no activity during the summer. That is just wrong, if a lad doesn't play hurling what does he do - we will not increase participation in the towns in particular going that way."
Don't most footballers also play hurling? They certainly do at our club. Isn't that the point to being a dual club?

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13650 - 28/05/2022 14:29:30    2420603

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Replying To Viking66:  "Don't most footballers also play hurling? They certainly do at our club. Isn't that the point to being a dual club?"
Look at Wexford town, football clubs v hurling

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1897 - 28/05/2022 16:36:09    2420627

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Replying To zinny:  "Look at Wexford town, football clubs v hurling"
Anyone who wants to play both in town can play hurling for 1 club and football for another if they want Zinny? Still doesn't change the fact that most clubs in the county are dual clubs.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 13650 - 28/05/2022 17:17:46    2420638

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Replying To Viking66:  "Don't most footballers also play hurling? They certainly do at our club. Isn't that the point to being a dual club?"
Eh what?

The point of being a dual club is that every player has the opportunity to play both games not that they have to.

There are loads of clubs where players simply don't and only play one either hurling or football, in fact I'd say that's the case in the vast majority tbh.

tearintom (Wexford) - Posts: 1421 - 28/05/2022 18:55:14    2420665

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Replying To Viking66:  "Anyone who wants to play both in town can play hurling for 1 club and football for another if they want Zinny? Still doesn't change the fact that most clubs in the county are dual clubs."
Missed the point, the fact that you have one hurling club and 5 football clubs means that as a game football is far more popular in the town, what do you tell the lads who only play football? Wexford town and the surrounding areas has a big soccer support are you seriously thinking the answer is to ask them to play hurling?

zinny (Wexford) - Posts: 1897 - 28/05/2022 18:58:25    2420666

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