National Forum

The Amateur Ethos

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Yes but joe brolly is always praising dublin

gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 459 - 16/02/2020 16:53:20    2267973

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Replying To IssacBall:  "' Smell of money leaving a stench'. Joe Brolly in the Independent today says it as it is. The corruption in the GAA with the pursuit of money to pay managers and coaching staff is criminal. We have lost the arguement within the debate on amateur -v- professionalism. We are paying to go to games and support our clubs and the money is being used primarily to pay wages to managers at all levels in club and county games."
This was an article by Joe Brolly who works for eir sport ?

And was the article behind an Irish Independent paywall ?

And he was giving out about commercialisation of the gaa ?

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1054 - 16/02/2020 18:10:41    2267992

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Replying To centerfield:  "is zero pay top dollar for the people who supporters pay money to watch. The players."
Players demand the absolute best nowadays...do you realize what goes into managing a club team let alone a county team?

If we pay the players where do we draw the line? Intercourny only, club player who gets an odd county game? Who is going to pay for it?

I do have a problem with clubs paying managers from neighboring clubs or counties to come and manage them when funds would be better off kept within.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10077 - 16/02/2020 18:51:31    2268005

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Players demand the absolute best nowadays...do you realize what goes into managing a club team let alone a county team?

If we pay the players where do we draw the line? Intercourny only, club player who gets an odd county game? Who is going to pay for it?

I do have a problem with clubs paying managers from neighboring clubs or counties to come and manage them when funds would be better off kept within."
You draw up contracts for core players and then pay per game for any others just like a lot of other sports do/have done.
Mix of county boards, central authorities in croker as well as getting sponsors to chip in. A sponsor could help with giving a player(s) some pay and player then acts as corporate partner helping promote the company/turn up at product launches etc

KillingFields (Limerick) - Posts: 572 - 16/02/2020 19:03:40    2268009

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Replying To KillingFields:  "You draw up contracts for core players and then pay per game for any others just like a lot of other sports do/have done.
Mix of county boards, central authorities in croker as well as getting sponsors to chip in. A sponsor could help with giving a player(s) some pay and player then acts as corporate partner helping promote the company/turn up at product launches etc"
Top players are getting cars left right and centre...they are well looked after. Some intercounty stars barely have a day job from what I see on social media. It's the club players that are being shafted.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10077 - 16/02/2020 20:59:56    2268027

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Players demand the absolute best nowadays...do you realize what goes into managing a club team let alone a county team?

If we pay the players where do we draw the line? Intercourny only, club player who gets an odd county game? Who is going to pay for it?

I do have a problem with clubs paying managers from neighboring clubs or counties to come and manage them when funds would be better off kept within."
Match day fees could work

Teams name 25 man squad midnight before match. say 12 qualifying matches between champ and league with 55 teams between hurling and football.750 euro per match.
Cost 25x12x55x750
= Cost 12.4 Million

centerfield (Mayo) - Posts: 319 - 16/02/2020 21:00:37    2268028

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Figures are being plucked out of the air here. Counties will - ultimately - pay what they can afford.

Clubs need to have a look at what happened in Rugby Union 25 years ago. Some well-established clubs are no longer there due to over-reaching themselves.

Mind you, that might have been down to the extra cost of having to pay tax on the wages they were already paying.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 173 - 17/02/2020 09:37:17    2268077

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "Figures are being plucked out of the air here. Counties will - ultimately - pay what they can afford.

Clubs need to have a look at what happened in Rugby Union 25 years ago. Some well-established clubs are no longer there due to over-reaching themselves.

Mind you, that might have been down to the extra cost of having to pay tax on the wages they were already paying."
Which rugby clubs have gone under?

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 603 - 17/02/2020 10:29:31    2268088

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Replying To centerfield:  "Match day fees could work

Teams name 25 man squad midnight before match. say 12 qualifying matches between champ and league with 55 teams between hurling and football.750 euro per match.
Cost 25x12x55x750
= Cost 12.4 Million"
Why would the ladies football team in Mayo not be entitled to any money but the hurlers would?

Soma (UK) - Posts: 2365 - 17/02/2020 10:32:18    2268089

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Replying To centerfield:  "is zero pay top dollar for the people who supporters pay money to watch. The players."
That is a different argument. Do you think the players should be paid?? ? I am not ethically opposed to it as others are but from a practical point of view i don't think the figures stack up.

Back to the my original point. An organisation as big as the GAA must be run by professionals at the top level. Do you disagree with that?

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1168 - 17/02/2020 12:04:36    2268119

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Replying To Breezy:  "Which rugby clubs have gone under?"
Possibly overstated this as some clubs merged and some just went back to being amateur if they couldn't hack it.

But Wakefield and Celtic Warriors were fairly high profile casualties. Did London Irish not merge with some club or other if I remember right ? I'm no expert on Rugby Union - it's just what I recall.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 173 - 17/02/2020 12:11:35    2268124

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Replying To Mayonman:  "That is a different argument. Do you think the players should be paid?? ? I am not ethically opposed to it as others are but from a practical point of view i don't think the figures stack up.

Back to the my original point. An organisation as big as the GAA must be run by professionals at the top level. Do you disagree with that?"
Are you stating that it is well 'run', and that this is down to very highly paid professionals?

neverright (Roscommon) - Posts: 1648 - 17/02/2020 14:54:19    2268172

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Replying To Soma:  "Why would the ladies football team in Mayo not be entitled to any money but the hurlers would?"
Different organisations

sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 369 - 17/02/2020 16:15:46    2268189

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Brolly supports a professional team

gahfan (Wexford) - Posts: 459 - 17/02/2020 18:59:13    2268224

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Replying To lionofludesch:  "Possibly overstated this as some clubs merged and some just went back to being amateur if they couldn't hack it.

But Wakefield and Celtic Warriors were fairly high profile casualties. Did London Irish not merge with some club or other if I remember right ? I'm no expert on Rugby Union - it's just what I recall."
Celtic Warriors was a made up team for the pro era and never really got going despite being from a big rugby area the fans never took to them and stayed with their old amateur clubs.

Wakefield is a rugby league stronghold and although they did try they were never gonna make it in pro union.

London Irish haven't merged with anyonebut do ground share with Reading FC and are going in with Brentford FC on a new stadium.

Professionalism has been on the whole good for rugby union even the for the small clubs but it has brought it's problems and I'm certainly not trying to use that to advocate for pro GAA

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 603 - 17/02/2020 19:21:43    2268225

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Replying To Mayonman:  "That is a different argument. Do you think the players should be paid?? ? I am not ethically opposed to it as others are but from a practical point of view i don't think the figures stack up.

Back to the my original point. An organisation as big as the GAA must be run by professionals at the top level. Do you disagree with that?"
Your argument is like saying Bruce Springsteen's roadie should get paid but there's not enough money in the gig for Bruce to get paid. Or Katie Taylor's promoter should get paid for a bout but not Katie.
I don't just think the players should get paid i think they should demand it and they should see this amateur ethos for the nonsense it is

centerfield (Mayo) - Posts: 319 - 17/02/2020 19:36:02    2268227

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The gaa is pro in the Dublin senior set up

traleegerry (Kerry) - Posts: 594 - 17/02/2020 21:01:15    2268243

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Replying To Breezy:  "Celtic Warriors was a made up team for the pro era and never really got going despite being from a big rugby area the fans never took to them and stayed with their old amateur clubs.

Wakefield is a rugby league stronghold and although they did try they were never gonna make it in pro union.

London Irish haven't merged with anyonebut do ground share with Reading FC and are going in with Brentford FC on a new stadium.

Professionalism has been on the whole good for rugby union even the for the small clubs but it has brought it's problems and I'm certainly not trying to use that to advocate for pro GAA"
Thanks for your thoughts.

lionofludesch (Down) - Posts: 173 - 17/02/2020 22:11:09    2268257

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Replying To traleegerry:  "The gaa is pro in the Dublin senior set up"
And it's not professional in Kerry? Or Donegal, Mayo, Tyrone, Galway....? Don't kid yourself

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10077 - 17/02/2020 22:22:05    2268258

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If inter-county players were paid, would it also erode the practice of players representing the county to which they have a club or personal connection? I personally would lose all interest in my county team if success depended on buying in outsiders. I hope I'm not alone in that; but you never know these days! You could try to have a rule that you have to live in the county you play for. But if someone is getting paid to play anyway, simple enough to move to a more successful county and try his luck there. And it's likely that trying to enforce a "play for your ordinal county only" policy would fall foul of employment legislation. So you could see a drain of top players to the counties who pay the most and win the most. Everyone would end up in Dublin; and the financial logic would suggest the creation of one or two more Dublin teams, as the money and the player pool would be there. It would end up similar to Scottish soccer. The traditional county affiliations would struggle to withstand the pull of the market. I hope I'm wrong; but I'd be concerned that professionalism would be the beginning of the end that unique communion of identity between players and supporters that currently exists in county GAA.

essmac (Tyrone) - Posts: 681 - 18/02/2020 07:04:53    2268272

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