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Black Card In Hurling

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Black card in Hurling seems to be getting a bit of traction. Do not see the need, any foul in Hurling these days can result in a score. This to me this one of the main differences in the 2 codes. In football players can only score frees from will inside the opposing teams half of the field. Any foul in Hurling within nearly 100m of the goal can result in a score. In a close game a manager would go mad if a half forward pulled down a halfback and have Joe Canning, T.J. Reid, Patrick Horgan or the likes walking out to put a point on the scoreboard. As far as around the goal I think if a ref deems a player has a free run at the goal and is pulled down it should be his discretion to award a penalty even if they are outside the penalty area.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 69 - 07/02/2020 13:15:50    2265935

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Just because its in football is not a good enough reason to bring it in to hurling.
Apply the existing rules first and maybe define the tackle and handpass with a bit more clarity and train hurlers to abide by these rules.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 579 - 07/02/2020 13:35:34    2265940

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Replying To ZUL10:  "Just because its in football is not a good enough reason to bring it in to hurling.
Apply the existing rules first and maybe define the tackle and handpass with a bit more clarity and train hurlers to abide by these rules."
Exactly - no point introducing new rules to Hurling when the existing ones aren't even being applied.

Offside_Rule (Antrim) - Posts: 3968 - 07/02/2020 15:15:36    2265958

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No

Coopers_Helmet (Tipperary) - Posts: 150 - 16/02/2020 08:59:11    2267909

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There is a very cynical foul that is prevalent in hurling . In a tight game when a forward is through on goal they are dragged down . That has to be eliminated from the game . Rather than a black card or a yellow card this should be an automatic red card offence . That red card also carries a one game suspension . I wouldn't introduce a black card but I do think an audit needs to be conducted on cynical fouling in hurling in order that people's opinions can be informed . It's not good enough to speak about this issue on the basis of perception .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5060 - 16/02/2020 10:00:16    2267918

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Hurling doesn't need a black card, hurling is the only bit of purity left in the GAA. Free flowing games with high scoring, none of the crap that we see in football.
However hurling enthusiasts be warned, Congress is a very cynical place, full of stroking & many football counties who don't want hurling or want to keep it under foot will see this as a chance to spike the hurling C'ship & for that reason, don't be surprised if it is introduced. Why rule changes are left to a body who as we saw last year don't even bother debating them & the vote is over in 5 mins, is beyond me, most are there for their own agenda. All this talk of how democratic the Association is & Congress represents us all at grassroots, when they shat on ordinary members last year by voting against transparency & openly mocked from the floor, those who brought the motion.
There will be open warfare this year on & off the field, if the stupid motion they recently brought forward with the black card & sin binning isn't timed to take into account stoppages in play. Imagine a scenario in an All Ireland final where ten minutes to go the team leading has a key man black carded & for the last 10 minutes fellas are lying down all over the field, it will infuriate spectators & players.
Hurling powers need to start digging in or they will be in for a shock & end up with a game like football where there is a number of rule changes every year & nobody knows what's going on, especially refs at club level.

moc.dna (Galway) - Posts: 977 - 16/02/2020 12:06:31    2267932

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Replying To moc.dna:  "Hurling doesn't need a black card, hurling is the only bit of purity left in the GAA. Free flowing games with high scoring, none of the crap that we see in football.
However hurling enthusiasts be warned, Congress is a very cynical place, full of stroking & many football counties who don't want hurling or want to keep it under foot will see this as a chance to spike the hurling C'ship & for that reason, don't be surprised if it is introduced. Why rule changes are left to a body who as we saw last year don't even bother debating them & the vote is over in 5 mins, is beyond me, most are there for their own agenda. All this talk of how democratic the Association is & Congress represents us all at grassroots, when they shat on ordinary members last year by voting against transparency & openly mocked from the floor, those who brought the motion.
There will be open warfare this year on & off the field, if the stupid motion they recently brought forward with the black card & sin binning isn't timed to take into account stoppages in play. Imagine a scenario in an All Ireland final where ten minutes to go the team leading has a key man black carded & for the last 10 minutes fellas are lying down all over the field, it will infuriate spectators & players.
Hurling powers need to start digging in or they will be in for a shock & end up with a game like football where there is a number of rule changes every year & nobody knows what's going on, especially refs at club level."
I agree entirely with you about Congress and what it has inflicted upon football and football supporters . Having said that four of the five major football finals last year were exceptional . The senior final was the best senior final I have ever seen . I agree with you in terms of the suits running the GAA and the fact that Congress does nothing more than rubber stamp every ridiculous initiative that the suits come up with . Look at the new "rules" and that awful Tier Two competition. GAA people, not just hurling people need to organise and push back against the leadership and Congress.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5060 - 16/02/2020 14:50:11    2267949

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I dont think anyone involved in hurling, managers, players or fans, wants to see black cards introduced. The sight of a big full forward fighting off a big full back and burying the ball in the back of the net is part and parcel of the game. Abdlikewuse a big fullback preventing it. And if you read accounts of hurling from the start of organised matches in the 17th and 18th centuries right up to the 1970s you would realise that the game is probably a lot cleaner now than it ever was!

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 902 - 16/02/2020 20:36:37    2268023

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Replying To Viking66:  "I dont think anyone involved in hurling, managers, players or fans, wants to see black cards introduced. The sight of a big full forward fighting off a big full back and burying the ball in the back of the net is part and parcel of the game. Abdlikewuse a big fullback preventing it. And if you read accounts of hurling from the start of organised matches in the 17th and 18th centuries right up to the 1970s you would realise that the game is probably a lot cleaner now than it ever was!"
Well said. I think a lot of this black card business is non hurling people just testing the water. Do they really care about the game I wonder and do they genuinely feel a black card would be better for the game?

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 579 - 16/02/2020 22:54:00    2268050

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Replying To ZUL10:  "Well said. I think a lot of this black card business is non hurling people just testing the water. Do they really care about the game I wonder and do they genuinely feel a black card would be better for the game?"
Non hurling people ? Are we not all GAA people ?

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5060 - 17/02/2020 08:35:08    2268066

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What's the biggest issues in hurling at the moment? Fixtures and the club/ county dosconnect, solution bring in the black card!! Couldn't make it up...

wexico15 (Wexford) - Posts: 1998 - 17/02/2020 09:30:30    2268073

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dont see the need for a black card,do however see the need for a sin-bin for 2 yellow cards or for fouling to stop goal scoring chance,e.g. enda morrissey in last years leinster final,he was right to do it but i think we want to see more goals from play instead of penalties

perfect10 (Wexford) - Posts: 3605 - 17/02/2020 10:37:03    2268094

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Replying To perfect10:  "dont see the need for a black card,do however see the need for a sin-bin for 2 yellow cards or for fouling to stop goal scoring chance,e.g. enda morrissey in last years leinster final,he was right to do it but i think we want to see more goals from play instead of penalties"
Well said .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5060 - 17/02/2020 13:32:55    2268149

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Replying To Greengrass:  "Non hurling people ? Are we not all GAA people ?"
Call them what you like but you know as well as I do that there are some 'GAA' people that never held a hurley or attended a hurling match but feel they are entitled to throw their weight behind a rule change in hurling. If its in the best interest of the game then come what may.

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 579 - 17/02/2020 13:48:38    2268154

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Replying To ZUL10:  "Call them what you like but you know as well as I do that there are some 'GAA' people that never held a hurley or attended a hurling match but feel they are entitled to throw their weight behind a rule change in hurling. If its in the best interest of the game then come what may."
The black card in football was only carried at Congress because traditional hurling counties agreed to vote for it . I had no problem with them doing so even though I was opposed to the introduction of the black card . We are all GAA people . I would be opposed to the introduction of the black card in hurling too . However I don't think anyone can deny that something needs to be done about the deliberate pull down of forwards who are through on goal . I would make it an automatic red card offence with that red card carrying a one game suspension . There are other fouls in hurling such as the deliberate pulling of the hurley or the arm that need to be looked at. However it is a delicate balancing act because the essence of the game must be maintained . What has been inflicted upon and what continues to be inflicted upon football by the hierarchy of the GAA should serve as a salutary warning . It is a tribute to football and footballers that they continue serve up entertainment of the quality of last years championship and league despite the impositions of the leadership of the GAA. Hurling needs to push back at the leadership whilst at the same time recognising that there are areas of the game that need to be tidied up .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5060 - 17/02/2020 14:25:34    2268165

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Ok so you sound like you have hurling's best interest at heart. And yes there are several cynical fouls in hurling. But giving a card to a player for holding another players hand or hurley is not a card offence of any colour. Its a free! The problem is these frees are not been awarded and in a lot of cases its very difficult for refs to see every single foul. Apply the rules first before we start talking about more cards. Im all for getting rid of the curse of the 'spare hand' in hurling. But at what point does putting a hand around a player become a foul within the written rules ? Dragging a player down in the square is a penalty and a yellow card. Is that not enough punishment if its implemented?

ZUL10 (Clare) - Posts: 579 - 17/02/2020 17:17:10    2268212

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Replying To ZUL10:  "Ok so you sound like you have hurling's best interest at heart. And yes there are several cynical fouls in hurling. But giving a card to a player for holding another players hand or hurley is not a card offence of any colour. Its a free! The problem is these frees are not been awarded and in a lot of cases its very difficult for refs to see every single foul. Apply the rules first before we start talking about more cards. Im all for getting rid of the curse of the 'spare hand' in hurling. But at what point does putting a hand around a player become a foul within the written rules ? Dragging a player down in the square is a penalty and a yellow card. Is that not enough punishment if its implemented?"
To be fair, if you're saying persistent fouling( pulling, dragging, holding) outside the square should never result in a card, then a yellow card and penalty inside the square won't matter. Because if you allow players to foul consistently without fear of a card outside the square, then they'll just keep fouling up the field. I'd gladly give away a free outside the square that'll result in a point, rather than give away a goal or a penalty. And if I never get booked for it, it'd only make sense to keep doing it. And the further out I do it, the more likely the free might go wide. You won't get rid of the the 'spare hand' in hurling if you keep the incentive to use it.

However, thats not necessarily an argument for a black card. The rules already state that a player should be booked for persistent fouling, so no point in bringing in new rules if existing ones aren't enforced.

One thing I would say, is that the advantage rule has been a huge success since it came in, and that should allow for rules/punishments to be applied more effectively, without slowing down the game. I don't think refs get enough credit for how they currently use that rule, it's made a huge difference to games (for the better).

Marlon_JD (Tipperary) - Posts: 1745 - 17/02/2020 18:29:02    2268219

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Replying To ZUL10:  "Ok so you sound like you have hurling's best interest at heart. And yes there are several cynical fouls in hurling. But giving a card to a player for holding another players hand or hurley is not a card offence of any colour. Its a free! The problem is these frees are not been awarded and in a lot of cases its very difficult for refs to see every single foul. Apply the rules first before we start talking about more cards. Im all for getting rid of the curse of the 'spare hand' in hurling. But at what point does putting a hand around a player become a foul within the written rules ? Dragging a player down in the square is a penalty and a yellow card. Is that not enough punishment if its implemented?"
The problem is ZUL10 that a lot of the drag downs happen before a penalty can be awarded. It results in a yellow card for the transgressors and a point for the team who have lost the goal scoring chance . The transgressor wins . That has to change and that is why I would make it a red card offence . I agree with you in terms of the flow of the game. That is part of the essence of hurling . So too is the contest around the ball . Look at Padraic Maher's shoulder on Joe Canning in 2016. Look at what Gearoid McInerney did to Maher in 2017. It is essential that that sort of contest around the ball is maintained in hurling . The hierarchy of the GAA have taken it out of football and football is the poorer for it. It is essential GAA people push back against the leadership and Congress . Our games are too important to us to have them lose what makes them unique.

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 5060 - 17/02/2020 19:49:58    2268228

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Wouldn't be a fan of the black card in hurling but it's been a great success in football.

The dragging down of a defender coming out with the ball has been decreased.

We will all have our opinions on changes but some of the best rule changes have been in recent decades.

Best rule change in football was allowing a free to be taken out of hands. Watch old all Ireland finals and look at the stop start nature of the games.

Personally I hate the advanced mark but if people don't like it then it will be changed.

One last thing is it's kind of funny that every rule change is blamed on "suits in Croke Park"

As if a director of finance or hr in Croke Park is interested in the black card in hurling. There is a rules committee that sits and they make suggestions which get voted on by congress which is county boards. Some changes get voted in, some do t. Some changes work, some don't but I never see it as a conspiracy by the suits.

carlovia (None) - Posts: 1054 - 17/02/2020 21:28:19    2268248

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If a player has a free run at the goal and is pulled down the Ref should be allowed to award a penalty. Putting someone in the sin bin doesn't put a goal on the score board. As for out the field if it is deliberate a yellow card is sufficient

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 69 - 17/02/2020 21:41:53    2268253

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