National Forum

Black Card In Hurling

(Oldest Posts First) - Go To The Latest Post


Replying To gatha:  "If a player has a free run at the goal and is pulled down the Ref should be allowed to award a penalty. Putting someone in the sin bin doesn't put a goal on the score board. As for out the field if it is deliberate a yellow card is sufficient"
What if when the player has a free run and is pulled down outside the box he gets a free from where he is pulled down but the other team can't flood the box with players. So essentially it's a penalty from where the foul was committed

Breezy (Limerick) - Posts: 1236 - 18/02/2020 15:08:51    2268322

Link

Replying To Greengrass:  "The black card in football was only carried at Congress because traditional hurling counties agreed to vote for it . I had no problem with them doing so even though I was opposed to the introduction of the black card . We are all GAA people . I would be opposed to the introduction of the black card in hurling too . However I don't think anyone can deny that something needs to be done about the deliberate pull down of forwards who are through on goal . I would make it an automatic red card offence with that red card carrying a one game suspension . There are other fouls in hurling such as the deliberate pulling of the hurley or the arm that need to be looked at. However it is a delicate balancing act because the essence of the game must be maintained . What has been inflicted upon and what continues to be inflicted upon football by the hierarchy of the GAA should serve as a salutary warning . It is a tribute to football and footballers that they continue serve up entertainment of the quality of last years championship and league despite the impositions of the leadership of the GAA. Hurling needs to push back at the leadership whilst at the same time recognising that there are areas of the game that need to be tidied up ."
"The black card in football was only carried at Congress because traditional hurling counties agreed to vote for it" you do realise you are basically talking about Kilkenny whereas the flipside is ridiculously unbalanced.

arock (Dublin) - Posts: 4895 - 18/02/2020 15:49:02    2268330

Link

There would be more guessing what colour the card is in hurling, so it should be a non-starter. My view is scrap the black in football also, just give a red for hand trips and third man tackles and all pre-meditated cynical play. A penalty kick should follow all red cards.

suckvalleypaddy (Galway) - Posts: 1667 - 18/02/2020 18:58:01    2268350

Link

How about doing away with the yellow in both sports.? 1 black and you've 10 mins in the bin , second black card and you're off. No need for the yellow.

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 18/02/2020 19:23:55    2268352

Link

Replying To Breezy:  "What if when the player has a free run and is pulled down outside the box he gets a free from where he is pulled down but the other team can't flood the box with players. So essentially it's a penalty from where the foul was committed"
I would give them a traditional penalty same spot as if he was inside the penalty area.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 18/02/2020 19:45:16    2268357

Link

Then you have the issue of whether another defender could possibly have got back to make a tackle. If the defender is last man then fair enough but if a guy is 30 yards out and through on goal it becomes more challenging to say it's a definite goal

bloodyban (Limerick) - Posts: 1710 - 18/02/2020 20:34:03    2268362

Link

Replying To arock:  ""The black card in football was only carried at Congress because traditional hurling counties agreed to vote for it" you do realise you are basically talking about Kilkenny whereas the flipside is ridiculously unbalanced."
Tipp, Kilkenny, Waterford, Clare, Limerick and Wexford would all be looked upon as being hurling counties first . They were all canvassed when it came to the black card . Eugene McGee worked exceptionally hard on it . All you have to do is look at the photograph taken of him after the motion was passed to see how drained he was . Are you saying only Kilkenny should have a vote on the motion ?

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 18/02/2020 20:54:17    2268365

Link

if you add more card colours and sin bins and a rake of other rules, you need two refs on the field. While a ref is tiring to implement new rules a player could be taking 10 steps unnoticed.

maroondiesel (Mayo) - Posts: 1196 - 18/02/2020 21:19:56    2268371

Link

Here we go again. Red cards, yellow cards and black cards that do nothing to enhance the game or prevent professional, sinister fouling to prevent a score. If punishment is to work it has to effect the result and the perpetrator. Then you will see how quick these fouls will slow down.
Why is it that rule changes always just swipe at the problem. This only is simple. If a goal scoring opportunity is denied automatic penalty shot is the result with red card. If this is in the middle of the field so be it. How could that occur ? One defender back and he takes out an opponent heading for goal. I hear it too hard to decide. The referee and lines men can make the call. If they are several defenders between the attacker and the goal, then that is not a definite goal chance and a regular free is the result. If those defenders realistically can not intervene (too far out on the wings) in the play it is a penalty.
No matter what rules are made a judgement call is going to be required. Some will be wrong but with clear guide lines the majority will be correct. Severe consequences for sinister fouling will not eradicate all of it but it will surely make the player think twice about it before doing it.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 18/02/2020 22:24:02    2268381

Link

Replying To Canuck:  "Here we go again. Red cards, yellow cards and black cards that do nothing to enhance the game or prevent professional, sinister fouling to prevent a score. If punishment is to work it has to effect the result and the perpetrator. Then you will see how quick these fouls will slow down.
Why is it that rule changes always just swipe at the problem. This only is simple. If a goal scoring opportunity is denied automatic penalty shot is the result with red card. If this is in the middle of the field so be it. How could that occur ? One defender back and he takes out an opponent heading for goal. I hear it too hard to decide. The referee and lines men can make the call. If they are several defenders between the attacker and the goal, then that is not a definite goal chance and a regular free is the result. If those defenders realistically can not intervene (too far out on the wings) in the play it is a penalty.
No matter what rules are made a judgement call is going to be required. Some will be wrong but with clear guide lines the majority will be correct. Severe consequences for sinister fouling will not eradicate all of it but it will surely make the player think twice about it before doing it."
I agree with everything except the Red Card. A Red Card should be for dangerous or reckless play. If a player goes out to hurt another player or is reckless they should be put off. Guarantee if a corner back gives away more then 1 penalty he will be taken off.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 19/02/2020 13:07:26    2268429

Link

Replying To bloodyban:  "How about doing away with the yellow in both sports.? 1 black and you've 10 mins in the bin , second black card and you're off. No need for the yellow."
ur onto something there. I would get rid of black and have just yellow and red cards but the 10m in sin bin would apply to all yellow. To do this u would need to recategorise some fouls potentially.

sin bin is a good idea but the fouls the qualify for it are too specific in their definition. So a bit of work needed there also before u implement
e.g. u need to pull a guy to the ground - lets say u just pull him back by the jersey, keep him upright but basically ruin that play - currently u don't get a black..... surely the same punishment should apply

Mayonman (Galway) - Posts: 1826 - 19/02/2020 13:32:30    2268435

Link

Replying To Greengrass:  "Tipp, Kilkenny, Waterford, Clare, Limerick and Wexford would all be looked upon as being hurling counties first . They were all canvassed when it came to the black card . Eugene McGee worked exceptionally hard on it . All you have to do is look at the photograph taken of him after the motion was passed to see how drained he was . Are you saying only Kilkenny should have a vote on the motion ?"
my information is that KK was against the black card,did anyone check the facts or just make them up to suit themselves

mooncat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 533 - 19/02/2020 19:37:02    2268500

Link

Replying To Mayonman:  "ur onto something there. I would get rid of black and have just yellow and red cards but the 10m in sin bin would apply to all yellow. To do this u would need to recategorise some fouls potentially.

sin bin is a good idea but the fouls the qualify for it are too specific in their definition. So a bit of work needed there also before u implement
e.g. u need to pull a guy to the ground - lets say u just pull him back by the jersey, keep him upright but basically ruin that play - currently u don't get a black..... surely the same punishment should apply"
Still don't see how the sin bin is a proper punishment for pulling down someone with a clear goal chance. 10 mins won't put 3 points on the board. It is totally realistic to play 10 mins a man down and never get a goal chance.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 19/02/2020 20:44:15    2268510

Link

Replying To mooncat:  "my information is that KK was against the black card,did anyone check the facts or just make them up to suit themselves"
Eugene McGee said at the time that hurling counties were canvassed . It was acknowledged at the time that given that a two thirds majority was needed and that six of the nine Ulster counties were to vote against the motion that the support of the hurling counties was needed . The motion passed with a 71%-29%. Six of those counties opposed were from Ulster . I may be wrong but I think Cork voted against. Five of the six Munster counties announced prior to the Congress in Derry that they would be voting against . The only Munster county in favour prior to the Congress was Kerry. Laois and Kilkenny were also opposed prior to the Congress. I think it's safe to say that the canvas of the hurling counties worked and that we can take Eugene McGee at his word when he said the motion would not have passed without the hurling counties .

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 19/02/2020 20:57:32    2268514

Link

Another point is if we are in the last few minutes of a game anyone will take playing with 14 men for a few minutes then let a player in for a goal. The 10 minute penalty won't even be enforced. You have to work a penalty into the equation somehow in order to have a fair punishment for the crime in my opinion.

gatha (Kilkenny) - Posts: 318 - 19/02/2020 21:18:09    2268518

Link

Replying To Greengrass:  "Eugene McGee said at the time that hurling counties were canvassed . It was acknowledged at the time that given that a two thirds majority was needed and that six of the nine Ulster counties were to vote against the motion that the support of the hurling counties was needed . The motion passed with a 71%-29%. Six of those counties opposed were from Ulster . I may be wrong but I think Cork voted against. Five of the six Munster counties announced prior to the Congress in Derry that they would be voting against . The only Munster county in favour prior to the Congress was Kerry. Laois and Kilkenny were also opposed prior to the Congress. I think it's safe to say that the canvas of the hurling counties worked and that we can take Eugene McGee at his word when he said the motion would not have passed without the hurling counties ."
you have no proof that KK voted for it,why arent other hurling counties being named?

mooncat (Kilkenny) - Posts: 533 - 19/02/2020 23:11:18    2268536

Link

Replying To mooncat:  "you have no proof that KK voted for it,why arent other hurling counties being named?"
Eh five of the six Munster counties ?

Greengrass (Louth) - Posts: 6031 - 20/02/2020 09:59:46    2268574

Link

Replying To gatha:  "Another point is if we are in the last few minutes of a game anyone will take playing with 14 men for a few minutes then let a player in for a goal. The 10 minute penalty won't even be enforced. You have to work a penalty into the equation somehow in order to have a fair punishment for the crime in my opinion."
Gatha I hate any type of cards. However the perpetrator of a haul down in the final seconds of a game needs to be sent off with a game suspension. The reason is if the opposition is winning by two points and the penalty is stopped it is worth the fouler's chance to commit the offence. It is called encouraging the behaviour. If he injuries the player it is reviewed with up to a 10 game suspension depending on the severity. Nothing will change until the consequences have real teeth.

Canuck (Waterford) - Posts: 2655 - 20/02/2020 16:40:09    2268653

Link

Replying To Greengrass:  "Eugene McGee said at the time that hurling counties were canvassed . It was acknowledged at the time that given that a two thirds majority was needed and that six of the nine Ulster counties were to vote against the motion that the support of the hurling counties was needed . The motion passed with a 71%-29%. Six of those counties opposed were from Ulster . I may be wrong but I think Cork voted against. Five of the six Munster counties announced prior to the Congress in Derry that they would be voting against . The only Munster county in favour prior to the Congress was Kerry. Laois and Kilkenny were also opposed prior to the Congress. I think it's safe to say that the canvas of the hurling counties worked and that we can take Eugene McGee at his word when he said the motion would not have passed without the hurling counties ."
What's this hurling counties nonsense? Cork, Wexford, Limerick, Tipp, Galway, Dublin, Clare, have all had some level of football success and/or at least division 2 status in this millennium ie the last 20 years. Wexford reached a div 1 league final in 2004 and an all Ireland semi final later on in the same decade. In fact for some of those years our footballers were alot more successful than our hurlers. Most of the clubs in all the counties field football teams and hurling teams.

Viking66 (Wexford) - Posts: 11725 - 20/02/2020 20:21:23    2268676

Link

I would like to see an automatic penalty if a defender is the last man and pulls a man down.

StoreysTash (Wexford) - Posts: 1732 - 22/02/2020 14:21:12    2268989

Link