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Replying To GDL:  "I've heard it all now. Joyce lower than McManus. When Conor has two All Irelands, scores double digits in an All Ireland final against a fullback of the standard of Darren Fay, we will speak again, you can also add in Hogan cup and Sigerson cups.

But on reflection PJ played in a Galway Junior B league this year, perhaps that is the level you're comparing the players at!!!"
Padraig Joyce is one of the greatest players to ever play for Galway. He is one greateat players to come from Connacht in last 50 years along with Dermot Earley Snr, Michael Donnellan, Ciaran McDonald. A truly all time great forward. But he fid not score double digits v Darren Fay in 2001 All Ireland final. When he ran riot, Fay was not marking him.

In the final at the start second half. Joyce scored his second point from play. Darren Fay decided unknown to Meath management to take himself of Joyce and swapped with Mark Reilly. The reason was it was first time in 6 years any forward had scored more then 1 point from play in the chanpionship marked by Darren Fay. Think of that. In the years 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000 and up to All Ireland final in 2001. No player scored more then a point from play in the championship v Darren Fay. Remeber Meath won two All Irelands in this period beating Cork, Dublin, Tyrone, Armagh, Fay was keeping players like Maurice Fitzgerald and Peter Cavanan to one point from play. That was the standard Fay was at.

So Joyce scored a second from play v Darren Fay in the early part of the second half. This was first time in his career of 6 years playing for Meath, a player had scored more then point from play against him in the championship. Before the final in 2001 , from his debut in 1996 Darren Fay had played 26 games for Meath in a row in the championahip. In those 26 championship games in a row not one forward scored more then one point v Darren Fay in the championship.

In his 27th game for time ever in his career a player scored 2 points from play marked by Fay. And we are talking about Fay keeping great forwards to not more then 1 point from play in 6 years when Meath reached 3 All Ireland finals winning 2. Never in his career before had a forward had scored more then 1 point from play been marked by Darren Fay in the championship.

So when Joyce scored his second point from play. Fay felt this was below his standards and asked Mark Reilly to take Joyce. Reilly was on Joyce for 20 mins. Joyce ran riot in that 20 mins while he was marked by Reilly. After 20 mins, the Meath management who hadnt realised Fay had asked Reilly to mark Joyce. Told Fay to take Joyce again. The damage was done. Joyce performance is one of the great All Ireland final performances. A truly great performance reaching double figures. But when he and Galway ran riot v 14 man Meath, Fay was not on Joyce. Fay when he marked Joyce he kept him to 2 points from play. Fay did a decent job on Joyce in first half. Joyce didnt play great in the firsf half. He actually had a couple of real bad wides, Galway had 7 bad wides in the first half, at half time score was 6 points apiece, Galway were overall better team in the first half. Galway were excellent in the second half especially Meehan , Mannion and Joyce. At the start of the second half Joyce scored 2 from play v Fay. Reilly took him then. Joyce ran riot, he scored 4 points, 3 from play been marked by Fay. Then Fay took Joyce again and kept him scoreless from play for the rest of match. Joyce scored two points from play v Fay in 01 fibal The other 3 points from play were when he was marked v Mark Reilly.

Just wanted to state this. I have heard it many times that Joyce destroyed Fay in the final. Its not the true picture what happenned. I knew in 01 that Fay was not marking Joyce in that period of the game. But it wasnt well known fact. It was Darren Fay who set record straight a few years ago in book on Meath great full backs.

Two great players, two great teams. Its pity when they met for the first time but teams would decline straight after. Galway were well and deserved winners on the day. And that victory was pretty much end of both teams. It was miracle Meath reached final as Westmeath should have beaten Meath twice. Many of the Meath players legs were gone by 2001 and was great achivement even getting to the final. It was down to nevee say die spirit . That was both teams last big match. The performance of total swashbuckling football by Meath in the semis when they beat great kerry team of 00s by 15 points was the swansong for that great Meath team. The brillant performance of Galway in the final was the swansong for that great Galway team. Its terrible pity there wasnt a back door in late 90s ( 01 was the first year of the backdoor) the kerry Galway and Meath teams who won 2 All Irelands apiece won all the All Irelands between 1996 and 2001, its pity they didnt meet in those years. Kerry and Galway met in a brillant final in 00. Meath and kerry met in great league semi final in 2000. But its pity kerry Meath and Galwa didnt meet each other in 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000. There would have been some matchs. When Meath played Galway in 01 but teams were coming to the end of their sucess.

Anyway as I said Darren Fay took himself of Mark Reilly when Joyce ran riot. Fay kept Joyce to 2 points from play. It was when Reilly took him he ran riot. I just wanted to state that. Fay was the greatest full back of the 90s and Joyce was one of greatest forwards of the 90s. Two truly great players.

Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 968 - 15/02/2020 18:57:42    2267861

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Replying To monaghanmad:  "I'm not talking about what he's done or hasnt done. I'm talking about natural ability. Diurmuid Connolly is probably the most skillful player in Ireland but he's not the best player due to his discipline and temperament. Don't talk about hat tricks or anything. Of cillian o Conor and Connolly or mc manus went into a skills contest cillian would not lay a finger on them."
A skills contest? Wtf is that?!

The most important skill in Gaelic football is putting the ball over the bar and into the net. Cillian has proven to be quite good at that.

MayoDan (Mayo) - Posts: 183 - 15/02/2020 19:30:40    2267866

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Replying To monaghanmad:  "Maybe I got Joyce wrong. Sorry.....but pound for pound skillwise leaving out scoring leaving out success. Who's a better all round footballer cillian or mc manus? Take into account skill power discipline, both feet, speed, ball winning ability, leadership. Mc manus trumps him all day."
Just to get up to speed here. McManus is more skillful, is faster, has more power, is a better ball winner a better leader and has better discipline than Cillian. Oh and he's also two footed. With all that in his favour how come he averages out almost two points per game less than Cillian. Could it be that Cillian is just more effective! And why would you leave out scoring as surely that's what it's all about.

Llaw_Gyffes (Mayo) - Posts: 1077 - 15/02/2020 20:57:36    2267882

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Replying To MayoDan:  "A skills contest? Wtf is that?!

The most important skill in Gaelic football is putting the ball over the bar and into the net. Cillian has proven to be quite good at that."
Yes scoring a hat trick against London. The stuff of legends.

FoolsGold (Cavan) - Posts: 1963 - 15/02/2020 21:14:13    2267884

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Replying To FoolsGold:  "Yes scoring a hat trick against London. The stuff of legends."
Ya scored 3 3 against London who qualified for Connaught final in 13. Went on to score 3 4 against Donegal that year in all Ireland quarter final, Donegal were all Ireland champions at the time. He suffered a serious shoulder injury that required surgery after that. He was carrying a knee injury for last few years and only got chance to have surgery last year due to club and county commitments. Cillian still only 27, hopefully he will get a break from injuries and get back to his best form.

Mfs (Mayo) - Posts: 192 - 15/02/2020 22:00:17    2267887

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Replying To FoolsGold:  "Yes scoring a hat trick against London. The stuff of legends."
You're nearly there, just another twenty two goals and two hundred and ninety seven points to explain away!

Llaw_Gyffes (Mayo) - Posts: 1077 - 15/02/2020 23:18:19    2267897

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Replying To Furlong1949:  "Padraig Joyce is one of the greatest players to ever play for Galway. He is one greateat players to come from Connacht in last 50 years along with Dermot Earley Snr, Michael Donnellan, Ciaran McDonald. A truly all time great forward. But he fid not score double digits v Darren Fay in 2001 All Ireland final. When he ran riot, Fay was not marking him.

In the final at the start second half. Joyce scored his second point from play. Darren Fay decided unknown to Meath management to take himself of Joyce and swapped with Mark Reilly. The reason was it was first time in 6 years any forward had scored more then 1 point from play in the chanpionship marked by Darren Fay. Think of that. In the years 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000 and up to All Ireland final in 2001. No player scored more then a point from play in the championship v Darren Fay. Remeber Meath won two All Irelands in this period beating Cork, Dublin, Tyrone, Armagh, Fay was keeping players like Maurice Fitzgerald and Peter Cavanan to one point from play. That was the standard Fay was at.

So Joyce scored a second from play v Darren Fay in the early part of the second half. This was first time in his career of 6 years playing for Meath, a player had scored more then point from play against him in the championship. Before the final in 2001 , from his debut in 1996 Darren Fay had played 26 games for Meath in a row in the championahip. In those 26 championship games in a row not one forward scored more then one point v Darren Fay in the championship.

In his 27th game for time ever in his career a player scored 2 points from play marked by Fay. And we are talking about Fay keeping great forwards to not more then 1 point from play in 6 years when Meath reached 3 All Ireland finals winning 2. Never in his career before had a forward had scored more then 1 point from play been marked by Darren Fay in the championship.

So when Joyce scored his second point from play. Fay felt this was below his standards and asked Mark Reilly to take Joyce. Reilly was on Joyce for 20 mins. Joyce ran riot in that 20 mins while he was marked by Reilly. After 20 mins, the Meath management who hadnt realised Fay had asked Reilly to mark Joyce. Told Fay to take Joyce again. The damage was done. Joyce performance is one of the great All Ireland final performances. A truly great performance reaching double figures. But when he and Galway ran riot v 14 man Meath, Fay was not on Joyce. Fay when he marked Joyce he kept him to 2 points from play. Fay did a decent job on Joyce in first half. Joyce didnt play great in the firsf half. He actually had a couple of real bad wides, Galway had 7 bad wides in the first half, at half time score was 6 points apiece, Galway were overall better team in the first half. Galway were excellent in the second half especially Meehan , Mannion and Joyce. At the start of the second half Joyce scored 2 from play v Fay. Reilly took him then. Joyce ran riot, he scored 4 points, 3 from play been marked by Fay. Then Fay took Joyce again and kept him scoreless from play for the rest of match. Joyce scored two points from play v Fay in 01 fibal The other 3 points from play were when he was marked v Mark Reilly.

Just wanted to state this. I have heard it many times that Joyce destroyed Fay in the final. Its not the true picture what happenned. I knew in 01 that Fay was not marking Joyce in that period of the game. But it wasnt well known fact. It was Darren Fay who set record straight a few years ago in book on Meath great full backs.

Two great players, two great teams. Its pity when they met for the first time but teams would decline straight after. Galway were well and deserved winners on the day. And that victory was pretty much end of both teams. It was miracle Meath reached final as Westmeath should have beaten Meath twice. Many of the Meath players legs were gone by 2001 and was great achivement even getting to the final. It was down to nevee say die spirit . That was both teams last big match. The performance of total swashbuckling football by Meath in the semis when they beat great kerry team of 00s by 15 points was the swansong for that great Meath team. The brillant performance of Galway in the final was the swansong for that great Galway team. Its terrible pity there wasnt a back door in late 90s ( 01 was the first year of the backdoor) the kerry Galway and Meath teams who won 2 All Irelands apiece won all the All Irelands between 1996 and 2001, its pity they didnt meet in those years. Kerry and Galway met in a brillant final in 00. Meath and kerry met in great league semi final in 2000. But its pity kerry Meath and Galwa didnt meet each other in 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000. There would have been some matchs. When Meath played Galway in 01 but teams were coming to the end of their sucess.

Anyway as I said Darren Fay took himself of Mark Reilly when Joyce ran riot. Fay kept Joyce to 2 points from play. It was when Reilly took him he ran riot. I just wanted to state that. Fay was the greatest full back of the 90s and Joyce was one of greatest forwards of the 90s. Two truly great players."
Joyce destroyed Fay Reilly and thr whole Meath defence that day, nothing else needs saying!

Galwaymaster9 (Galway) - Posts: 174 - 15/02/2020 23:32:11    2267901

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Replying To Furlong1949:  "Padraig Joyce is one of the greatest players to ever play for Galway. He is one greateat players to come from Connacht in last 50 years along with Dermot Earley Snr, Michael Donnellan, Ciaran McDonald. A truly all time great forward. But he fid not score double digits v Darren Fay in 2001 All Ireland final. When he ran riot, Fay was not marking him.

In the final at the start second half. Joyce scored his second point from play. Darren Fay decided unknown to Meath management to take himself of Joyce and swapped with Mark Reilly. The reason was it was first time in 6 years any forward had scored more then 1 point from play in the chanpionship marked by Darren Fay. Think of that. In the years 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000 and up to All Ireland final in 2001. No player scored more then a point from play in the championship v Darren Fay. Remeber Meath won two All Irelands in this period beating Cork, Dublin, Tyrone, Armagh, Fay was keeping players like Maurice Fitzgerald and Peter Cavanan to one point from play. That was the standard Fay was at.

So Joyce scored a second from play v Darren Fay in the early part of the second half. This was first time in his career of 6 years playing for Meath, a player had scored more then point from play against him in the championship. Before the final in 2001 , from his debut in 1996 Darren Fay had played 26 games for Meath in a row in the championahip. In those 26 championship games in a row not one forward scored more then one point v Darren Fay in the championship.

In his 27th game for time ever in his career a player scored 2 points from play marked by Fay. And we are talking about Fay keeping great forwards to not more then 1 point from play in 6 years when Meath reached 3 All Ireland finals winning 2. Never in his career before had a forward had scored more then 1 point from play been marked by Darren Fay in the championship.

So when Joyce scored his second point from play. Fay felt this was below his standards and asked Mark Reilly to take Joyce. Reilly was on Joyce for 20 mins. Joyce ran riot in that 20 mins while he was marked by Reilly. After 20 mins, the Meath management who hadnt realised Fay had asked Reilly to mark Joyce. Told Fay to take Joyce again. The damage was done. Joyce performance is one of the great All Ireland final performances. A truly great performance reaching double figures. But when he and Galway ran riot v 14 man Meath, Fay was not on Joyce. Fay when he marked Joyce he kept him to 2 points from play. Fay did a decent job on Joyce in first half. Joyce didnt play great in the firsf half. He actually had a couple of real bad wides, Galway had 7 bad wides in the first half, at half time score was 6 points apiece, Galway were overall better team in the first half. Galway were excellent in the second half especially Meehan , Mannion and Joyce. At the start of the second half Joyce scored 2 from play v Fay. Reilly took him then. Joyce ran riot, he scored 4 points, 3 from play been marked by Fay. Then Fay took Joyce again and kept him scoreless from play for the rest of match. Joyce scored two points from play v Fay in 01 fibal The other 3 points from play were when he was marked v Mark Reilly.

Just wanted to state this. I have heard it many times that Joyce destroyed Fay in the final. Its not the true picture what happenned. I knew in 01 that Fay was not marking Joyce in that period of the game. But it wasnt well known fact. It was Darren Fay who set record straight a few years ago in book on Meath great full backs.

Two great players, two great teams. Its pity when they met for the first time but teams would decline straight after. Galway were well and deserved winners on the day. And that victory was pretty much end of both teams. It was miracle Meath reached final as Westmeath should have beaten Meath twice. Many of the Meath players legs were gone by 2001 and was great achivement even getting to the final. It was down to nevee say die spirit . That was both teams last big match. The performance of total swashbuckling football by Meath in the semis when they beat great kerry team of 00s by 15 points was the swansong for that great Meath team. The brillant performance of Galway in the final was the swansong for that great Galway team. Its terrible pity there wasnt a back door in late 90s ( 01 was the first year of the backdoor) the kerry Galway and Meath teams who won 2 All Irelands apiece won all the All Irelands between 1996 and 2001, its pity they didnt meet in those years. Kerry and Galway met in a brillant final in 00. Meath and kerry met in great league semi final in 2000. But its pity kerry Meath and Galwa didnt meet each other in 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000. There would have been some matchs. When Meath played Galway in 01 but teams were coming to the end of their sucess.

Anyway as I said Darren Fay took himself of Mark Reilly when Joyce ran riot. Fay kept Joyce to 2 points from play. It was when Reilly took him he ran riot. I just wanted to state that. Fay was the greatest full back of the 90s and Joyce was one of greatest forwards of the 90s. Two truly great players."
Fay went running scared after a lad scores a couple of points off him in couple of minutes (one should of been a goal) and yet he didn't get roasted. Kind of a contradiction. PJ took his chances in the first half he would of ended up close to 16-17 points. And Reilly was considered one of the best man markers in the game at the time. So we'll change it to PJ roasted the entire Meath full back line.

SamandLiamSoon (Galway) - Posts: 504 - 15/02/2020 23:41:06    2267903

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I'd love to see Monaghan contest and win an All Ireland final, so long as it's not at Mayo's expense, and in doing so Conor McManus to perform half as well as PJ did on those great days for Galway. If he ever manages that he'll have proven himself worthy of comparison with the true greats of the game. No one from Mayo ever tries to draw a line between PJ and Cillian and won't unless Cillian produces the goods to get Mayo over the line when there's an AI at stake. But we can agree to respect both players for their ability, achievements and the definite potential they have to deliver on the big occasion, them and all the other good forwards vying for their place in history.

Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2081 - 16/02/2020 09:52:26    2267914

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Replying To Jackeen:  "Own up Mayo lads. Which of yis won the lotto yis jammie fecks!"
How much you looking for Jackeen?

Pericles (Mayo) - Posts: 2081 - 16/02/2020 09:54:27    2267915

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Replying To Furlong1949:  "Padraig Joyce is one of the greatest players to ever play for Galway. He is one greateat players to come from Connacht in last 50 years along with Dermot Earley Snr, Michael Donnellan, Ciaran McDonald. A truly all time great forward. But he fid not score double digits v Darren Fay in 2001 All Ireland final. When he ran riot, Fay was not marking him.

In the final at the start second half. Joyce scored his second point from play. Darren Fay decided unknown to Meath management to take himself of Joyce and swapped with Mark Reilly. The reason was it was first time in 6 years any forward had scored more then 1 point from play in the chanpionship marked by Darren Fay. Think of that. In the years 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000 and up to All Ireland final in 2001. No player scored more then a point from play in the championship v Darren Fay. Remeber Meath won two All Irelands in this period beating Cork, Dublin, Tyrone, Armagh, Fay was keeping players like Maurice Fitzgerald and Peter Cavanan to one point from play. That was the standard Fay was at.

So Joyce scored a second from play v Darren Fay in the early part of the second half. This was first time in his career of 6 years playing for Meath, a player had scored more then point from play against him in the championship. Before the final in 2001 , from his debut in 1996 Darren Fay had played 26 games for Meath in a row in the championahip. In those 26 championship games in a row not one forward scored more then one point v Darren Fay in the championship.

In his 27th game for time ever in his career a player scored 2 points from play marked by Fay. And we are talking about Fay keeping great forwards to not more then 1 point from play in 6 years when Meath reached 3 All Ireland finals winning 2. Never in his career before had a forward had scored more then 1 point from play been marked by Darren Fay in the championship.

So when Joyce scored his second point from play. Fay felt this was below his standards and asked Mark Reilly to take Joyce. Reilly was on Joyce for 20 mins. Joyce ran riot in that 20 mins while he was marked by Reilly. After 20 mins, the Meath management who hadnt realised Fay had asked Reilly to mark Joyce. Told Fay to take Joyce again. The damage was done. Joyce performance is one of the great All Ireland final performances. A truly great performance reaching double figures. But when he and Galway ran riot v 14 man Meath, Fay was not on Joyce. Fay when he marked Joyce he kept him to 2 points from play. Fay did a decent job on Joyce in first half. Joyce didnt play great in the firsf half. He actually had a couple of real bad wides, Galway had 7 bad wides in the first half, at half time score was 6 points apiece, Galway were overall better team in the first half. Galway were excellent in the second half especially Meehan , Mannion and Joyce. At the start of the second half Joyce scored 2 from play v Fay. Reilly took him then. Joyce ran riot, he scored 4 points, 3 from play been marked by Fay. Then Fay took Joyce again and kept him scoreless from play for the rest of match. Joyce scored two points from play v Fay in 01 fibal The other 3 points from play were when he was marked v Mark Reilly.

Just wanted to state this. I have heard it many times that Joyce destroyed Fay in the final. Its not the true picture what happenned. I knew in 01 that Fay was not marking Joyce in that period of the game. But it wasnt well known fact. It was Darren Fay who set record straight a few years ago in book on Meath great full backs.

Two great players, two great teams. Its pity when they met for the first time but teams would decline straight after. Galway were well and deserved winners on the day. And that victory was pretty much end of both teams. It was miracle Meath reached final as Westmeath should have beaten Meath twice. Many of the Meath players legs were gone by 2001 and was great achivement even getting to the final. It was down to nevee say die spirit . That was both teams last big match. The performance of total swashbuckling football by Meath in the semis when they beat great kerry team of 00s by 15 points was the swansong for that great Meath team. The brillant performance of Galway in the final was the swansong for that great Galway team. Its terrible pity there wasnt a back door in late 90s ( 01 was the first year of the backdoor) the kerry Galway and Meath teams who won 2 All Irelands apiece won all the All Irelands between 1996 and 2001, its pity they didnt meet in those years. Kerry and Galway met in a brillant final in 00. Meath and kerry met in great league semi final in 2000. But its pity kerry Meath and Galwa didnt meet each other in 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000. There would have been some matchs. When Meath played Galway in 01 but teams were coming to the end of their sucess.

Anyway as I said Darren Fay took himself of Mark Reilly when Joyce ran riot. Fay kept Joyce to 2 points from play. It was when Reilly took him he ran riot. I just wanted to state that. Fay was the greatest full back of the 90s and Joyce was one of greatest forwards of the 90s. Two truly great players."
I'm not sure if you're more like Boris Johnson or Donald Trump with your version of events but here is the direct quotes from the book you reference "The four Kings" by Philip Lanigan.

Croke Park, Sunday, September 23,

As the Meath team exit the dressing room, Fay is one of the first out the door, ball in his left hand, blessing himself with his right. Padraic Joyce walks over before the throw-in and shakes hands. This is it.

In a tense first half, with both teams struggling to find their 'A' game, nothing separates the sides. Galway are feeding the two-man inside line of Joyce and Derek Savage at every opportunity, but Fay and Mark O'Reilly are giving it back in spades.

Fay reveals where it all went wrong, how Meath's season, and his own record, unravelled in the most dramatic fashion.

"We went in six points all. I was marking Joyce … everything was grand. He hadn't scored - now he'd missed a couple of easy frees. And he was completely off his game. He missed a free from 21 yards out nearly straight in front of the goal.

"I felt there was an uneasy feeling in the dressing room at half time. We were after kicking the s**t out of Kerry and all of a sudden we were drawing with Galway, and we can't find the switch to flick it on again. It just wasn't there.

Less than a minute after the restart, Joyce gets in behind him and blazes over the bar with the goal at his mercy. Not long after that, Savage passes to Joyce who dodges one way, slips Fay, and scores. His second point from play. A defining moment.

"It was the first time ever in my playing career that someone had scored twice from play off me."

Suddenly, the doubts swirled in Fay's mind. Right in that moment, something snapped in him.

"Talk about panic on a football pitch. I says to Mark O'Reilly, "Look, I'm being roasted here, you may have a go."

The second half turns into 'The Padraic Joyce Show'. Joyce finishes with 10 points, five from play. Galway run out easy winners, 0-17 to 0-8.

Fay recounts his hardest day as a Meath footballer with a level of honesty that is as rare as it is admirable.

As Mick Lyons put it, "Joyce played like a gunslinger with an itchy trigger finger"

"The most honest performance I actually ever gave was, ironically enough, against Galway in 2007. In Portlaoise, in a qualifier. I was marking Michael Meehan. It was so hard; it was nearly like the same whole thing again.

"I was supposed to go into work on the Wednesday but I couldn't go in. I was just sitting at home here, thinking to myself, "This isn't happening." I shut myself out to the world. Sitting here now and looking back you think, "It's only a game of football."

Fay: after the semi final against Kerry, 'Meath football started showing an arrogance and it's never recovered from it'

It appears some Meath people remain in August of 2001 and thd arrogance remain, but there you have it, Joyce destroyed two of Meaths greatest defenders in 35 minutes. Imagine if he had stayed on him PJ may have scored 15 or 16.

GDL (Galway) - Posts: 394 - 16/02/2020 11:26:57    2267925

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Replying To Pericles:  "How much you looking for Jackeen?"
Oooh just a weekend in the Ice House Hotel in Ballina would do!

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 3962 - 16/02/2020 11:57:53    2267931

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Replying To GDL:  "I'm not sure if you're more like Boris Johnson or Donald Trump with your version of events but here is the direct quotes from the book you reference "The four Kings" by Philip Lanigan.

Croke Park, Sunday, September 23,

As the Meath team exit the dressing room, Fay is one of the first out the door, ball in his left hand, blessing himself with his right. Padraic Joyce walks over before the throw-in and shakes hands. This is it.

In a tense first half, with both teams struggling to find their 'A' game, nothing separates the sides. Galway are feeding the two-man inside line of Joyce and Derek Savage at every opportunity, but Fay and Mark O'Reilly are giving it back in spades.

Fay reveals where it all went wrong, how Meath's season, and his own record, unravelled in the most dramatic fashion.

"We went in six points all. I was marking Joyce … everything was grand. He hadn't scored - now he'd missed a couple of easy frees. And he was completely off his game. He missed a free from 21 yards out nearly straight in front of the goal.

"I felt there was an uneasy feeling in the dressing room at half time. We were after kicking the s**t out of Kerry and all of a sudden we were drawing with Galway, and we can't find the switch to flick it on again. It just wasn't there.

Less than a minute after the restart, Joyce gets in behind him and blazes over the bar with the goal at his mercy. Not long after that, Savage passes to Joyce who dodges one way, slips Fay, and scores. His second point from play. A defining moment.

"It was the first time ever in my playing career that someone had scored twice from play off me."

Suddenly, the doubts swirled in Fay's mind. Right in that moment, something snapped in him.

"Talk about panic on a football pitch. I says to Mark O'Reilly, "Look, I'm being roasted here, you may have a go."

The second half turns into 'The Padraic Joyce Show'. Joyce finishes with 10 points, five from play. Galway run out easy winners, 0-17 to 0-8.

Fay recounts his hardest day as a Meath footballer with a level of honesty that is as rare as it is admirable.

As Mick Lyons put it, "Joyce played like a gunslinger with an itchy trigger finger"

"The most honest performance I actually ever gave was, ironically enough, against Galway in 2007. In Portlaoise, in a qualifier. I was marking Michael Meehan. It was so hard; it was nearly like the same whole thing again.

"I was supposed to go into work on the Wednesday but I couldn't go in. I was just sitting at home here, thinking to myself, "This isn't happening." I shut myself out to the world. Sitting here now and looking back you think, "It's only a game of football."

Fay: after the semi final against Kerry, 'Meath football started showing an arrogance and it's never recovered from it'

It appears some Meath people remain in August of 2001 and thd arrogance remain, but there you have it, Joyce destroyed two of Meaths greatest defenders in 35 minutes. Imagine if he had stayed on him PJ may have scored 15 or 16."
Listened to a recent podcast where Darren Fay spoke with great honesty about his career with Meath. His memory of the 2001 final is very similar to the passages quoted from The Four Kings.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 1334 - 16/02/2020 14:07:35    2267942

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Replying To Jackeen:  "Oooh just a weekend in the Ice House Hotel in Ballina would do!"
Don't think the ice house allow riff raff in....;)

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10077 - 16/02/2020 14:42:45    2267946

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Replying To monaghanmad:  "I'm not talking about what he's done or hasnt done. I'm talking about natural ability. Diurmuid Connolly is probably the most skillful player in Ireland but he's not the best player due to his discipline and temperament. Don't talk about hat tricks or anything. Of cillian o Conor and Connolly or mc manus went into a skills contest cillian would not lay a finger on them."
When is the All Ireland skills contest on? I must go this year.

yew_tree (Mayo) - Posts: 10077 - 16/02/2020 14:43:46    2267947

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Replying To seadog54:  "Listened to a recent podcast where Darren Fay spoke with great honesty about his career with Meath. His memory of the 2001 final is very similar to the passages quoted from The Four Kings."
I'm a big fan of Darren Fay. The second best fullback I can remember after John O'Keefe from Kerry. He had a bad day in 2001. PJ had a day all young footballers dream about having.

GDL (Galway) - Posts: 394 - 16/02/2020 15:06:21    2267951

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Replying To yew_tree:  "Don't think the ice house allow riff raff in....;)"
You tell me YT ;)

Jackeen (Dublin) - Posts: 3962 - 16/02/2020 20:51:12    2268026

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Replying To GDL:  "I'm not sure if you're more like Boris Johnson or Donald Trump with your version of events but here is the direct quotes from the book you reference "The four Kings" by Philip Lanigan.

Croke Park, Sunday, September 23,

As the Meath team exit the dressing room, Fay is one of the first out the door, ball in his left hand, blessing himself with his right. Padraic Joyce walks over before the throw-in and shakes hands. This is it.

In a tense first half, with both teams struggling to find their 'A' game, nothing separates the sides. Galway are feeding the two-man inside line of Joyce and Derek Savage at every opportunity, but Fay and Mark O'Reilly are giving it back in spades.

Fay reveals where it all went wrong, how Meath's season, and his own record, unravelled in the most dramatic fashion.

"We went in six points all. I was marking Joyce … everything was grand. He hadn't scored - now he'd missed a couple of easy frees. And he was completely off his game. He missed a free from 21 yards out nearly straight in front of the goal.

"I felt there was an uneasy feeling in the dressing room at half time. We were after kicking the s**t out of Kerry and all of a sudden we were drawing with Galway, and we can't find the switch to flick it on again. It just wasn't there.

Less than a minute after the restart, Joyce gets in behind him and blazes over the bar with the goal at his mercy. Not long after that, Savage passes to Joyce who dodges one way, slips Fay, and scores. His second point from play. A defining moment.

"It was the first time ever in my playing career that someone had scored twice from play off me."

Suddenly, the doubts swirled in Fay's mind. Right in that moment, something snapped in him.

"Talk about panic on a football pitch. I says to Mark O'Reilly, "Look, I'm being roasted here, you may have a go."

The second half turns into 'The Padraic Joyce Show'. Joyce finishes with 10 points, five from play. Galway run out easy winners, 0-17 to 0-8.

Fay recounts his hardest day as a Meath footballer with a level of honesty that is as rare as it is admirable.

As Mick Lyons put it, "Joyce played like a gunslinger with an itchy trigger finger"

"The most honest performance I actually ever gave was, ironically enough, against Galway in 2007. In Portlaoise, in a qualifier. I was marking Michael Meehan. It was so hard; it was nearly like the same whole thing again.

"I was supposed to go into work on the Wednesday but I couldn't go in. I was just sitting at home here, thinking to myself, "This isn't happening." I shut myself out to the world. Sitting here now and looking back you think, "It's only a game of football."

Fay: after the semi final against Kerry, 'Meath football started showing an arrogance and it's never recovered from it'

It appears some Meath people remain in August of 2001 and thd arrogance remain, but there you have it, Joyce destroyed two of Meaths greatest defenders in 35 minutes. Imagine if he had stayed on him PJ may have scored 15 or 16."
Joyce is one the greatest forwards of all time. His performance in the 01 is one of the greatest performance by a forward in an All Ireland ever. You will find Meath supporters have great respect and great admiration for Padraig Joyce. Galway deserved to win the final that day, they were much better team and were well deserving All Ireland winners. A great team, the greatest team to come west of the shannon in last 50 years. Michael.Donnellan is one the most exciting talented footballers of last 50 years. But my favourite was Ja Fallon. He made that Galway team. tick, another great player.

I am trying to be fair to Galway, but I dont think people are being fair to Fay. Joyce destroyed one best corner backs in the country at time Mark Reilly. But if we use the above factual evidence.l you posted. It says this.

1 Joyce did not score 10 points on Fay. Joyce scores 5 points on Fay.
2 Joyce did not score double digits on Fay. As everyone always says. This is not reality. That did not happen.
3 Joyce scored 5 points from play. Only 2 of them while marked by Fay.
4 Fay kept Joyce scoreless from play in the first half. 6 points apiece at half time. In Fays words " Everything was grand" in the first half. Keeping one of the greatest forwards scoreless in the first half is not bad.
5 In the first 6 or 7 mins of the second half . Joyce scored 2 points from play.

This is significant Why?
Because incredibly for the first time in his career after 27 games a forward had scored more then one point from play marked by Fay.

This is signifucant why?
It shows the greatness of Joyce , he was the first forward after 27 championship matchs after 6 years to score more then one point of Fay.

This is signifcant why?
Most defenders would keeping one of thw greatest forwards of all time scoreless in the first half and letting that forward score 2 points play in a whole match a good performance. Nearly all defenders marking one of the greatest forwards of time and keeping them to 2 point from play in one game would be seen aa doing a great job marking that player.

This is significant why?
Because Fay did not mark Joyce for the next 20 mins. When Joyce ran riot Reilly was marking him. This is the reality of what happened. When Joyce scored 10 point, 5 of them were on Reilly.

This is Significant why?
Because it means Joyce did niot score 10 points neing marked by Fay.
Because Joyce scoree 5 points in total marked by Fay.
Because Joyce scored 2 points from play marked by Fay in the whole game.

This is signifcanf why?

Because it means when everyone say Joyce scored 10 point marked by Fay, 5 from play. This is untrue.
The truth, the reality was Joyce acored 2 points from play and 3 frees marked by Fay. When people say Joyce scored 10 points on Fay. This is not true. It uncorrect. Its misleading. Its a blatant untruth. A brexiteer of Tump supporter belives in falsehoods and untruth. I like to deal with factual evidence.

This is significant why?

Because for the first time in his career and 6 years and 27 championship matchs in a row a players scores a second point from play on Fay. Fay is unerved. Because for the first time after 27 games 2 All Ireland wins marking all time great players like Peter Cavanan, Maurice Fitzgerald and Fay was marking a forward who scored more then 1 point from play against. For brillant defender this wouldnt be an issue. But for a truly great defender
this was below his exceptional standards.

I have seen players in the modern era play in All Ireland finals and semis final and there opposing players scored 1 - 2 or 1 - 3 from play and the defender was said to have a good game. Kieth Higgins marked James O Donoghue in 2014 semi final. Higgins was praised for having a good game. He did. But he marked Donighur and Donoghue scored 2 - 6. Donoghue scored 4 points from play on Higgins.

Many many times in modern game I have seen defenders let their forward score 2 points from play in a whole game and they are seen as doing a good job.

Keeping one of the greatest forwards of all time Padraig Joyce to 2 points from play and 5 points in total in a whole game would be seen as good job by any brillant defender. But only a truly great defender like Fay would see marking one of greatest players of all.time and letting him score 2 points from play and 3 from.frees as a dreadful performance.

In Summary

Joyce is one of the greatest forward of all. time. His performance in 01 final is one greatest of all time.

But the TRUTH is
1 Joyce did not score 10 points being marked by Fay. For most of the second half Reilly was marking Joyce when he ran riot.
2 Joyce scored 5 points on Fay not 10 points.
3 Joyce scored 2 points from play on Fay not 5 points.
4 Fay kept Joyce scoreless in the first half, Joyce scored 2 points v Fay early in the second half and Reilly took for next 20 mins in second half.
5 I am just trying to set the facts right. People for 18 years have said Padraig Joyce scored 10 points being marked by Darren Fay.

Will ant Galway supporter admit the truth, that Joyce did not score then points marked by Joyce that Joyce scored 2 points ftom play marked by Fay.
Will any Galway supporter afmit the truth that Reilly marked Joyce when he ran riot in the second half.

It takes nothing away from Joyce greatness admitting the truth. The actual truth makes him more great. In that it was not til Fay marked Joyce in Fays 27th game in a row Joyce was the first and only forward to score more then 1 point from play v Fay. It actually how great Joyce was.
B
But all.I stating is the reality that Joyce did not score 10 points v Fay. Fay kept Joyce to 2 points from play in the whole game. Fay did not mark Joyce for 80% of the second half . When Joyce ran riot it was v Reilly.

It takes nothing away from Joyce . It actually makes him look a greater player when you accept the truth. Fay from 1996 to 2007 was the best full back in Ireland. Fay game after game in his first 6 years kept every to not more then 1 point from play
..In his career two players caused him.problems. Think of that 11 years a defender and only 2 forwards really caused him problems. In 2008 his legs were gone and in the qualifiers he struggled v limerick forward. But his legs were gone after 11 of being best full back in Ireland.

2 Players caused problems for Fay in those 11 years. 1996 to 2007.
They were Galway Joyce in 01 and Galways Meehan in 07.
Did they score 2 or 3 goals, did they score 4 or 5 points from play. Yes they caused him problems but they only scored 2 points from play v Fay.

In 01 Fay kept Joyce in championship scoreless in the first half.
In 07 Fay kept Meehan in championship scoreless in the first half.
In 01 Joyce scored 2 points from play marked by Fay in the second half
In 07 Meehan scored 2 points from play by Fay in the second half.

Fay was very upset with these two performances. He took himself of Joyce after he scored 2 points from play. And aftet letting Meehan scored 2 points from play Fay couldnt leave the house.

Imagine been a full back for 11 years and your worst games were when the in two different games 6 years apart. These Two different players scored 2 points from play against and this was a disaster. 11 years an inter county defender footballer and you worst performance our when two players you were marking scored 2 points from play. Is that not extraordinary..Thats why many consider Fay to one of the great full backs.

In 2001 one of the great full backs played one of the great forwards. That full back kept that forward scoreless in the first half. In the first 6 or 7 minutes that forward scored 2 from play. That defender for first time in 27 games had let a forward score more then 1 point fron play he was marking. He was unerved and asked his corner back to mark the forward. The corner back was roasted and 3 points from play and frees were scored v that corner back..For most of he second half when the forward ran riot the full back was not marking him. The forward scored 2 points play on thw full back in totql But afterwards everyone said he scored 5 from play from play and ten in total. This is was unfair and not the truth.

I understand Galway supporters think I am putting down Joyce performane. Im not . It was one of the greatest performance ever in a final. I am.just stating the truth and being fair to Fay.

Will any Galway supporter state the truth and be fair to Fay and agree with below
1 Fay did kept Joyce scoreless from play in the first half. And only marked for 7 or 8 mins of the first mins. Next 20 mins was on Reilly and this is when Joyce ran riot. and Fay took Joyce at the end of the game.
1 Joyce scored 2 points from play on Fay.
2 Joyce did not score 10 points on Fay.
3 And for most of the second half Joyce was being marked by Reilly.
4 When Joyce ran riot scoring 3 points from play ans frees in 20 mins it was v Reilly not Fay.

Thats what happened. I not going to change my mind and cannot change what happenned. It takes nothing away from the greatness of Joyce. He was the first player in 27 championship games and 6 yeaes to score more then 1 point marked by Fay. Joyce was one of the only two forwards to really trouble Fay in 11 years. Both scored 2 points from play v Fay. It actually shows what a great player Joyce. I have no more to say on the matter. I am not going to changing my mind because I cannot change what happened in the past. It happened. It would be just fair really if supporters would recognise Joyce didnt score 10 points on Fay , it was actaully 5 points on Fay and Joyce scored 2 points from play on Fay anf it was on Mark Reilly that Joyce ran riot.

Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 968 - 16/02/2020 21:47:34    2268032

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Replying To Furlong1949:  "Joyce is one the greatest forwards of all time. His performance in the 01 is one of the greatest performance by a forward in an All Ireland ever. You will find Meath supporters have great respect and great admiration for Padraig Joyce. Galway deserved to win the final that day, they were much better team and were well deserving All Ireland winners. A great team, the greatest team to come west of the shannon in last 50 years. Michael.Donnellan is one the most exciting talented footballers of last 50 years. But my favourite was Ja Fallon. He made that Galway team. tick, another great player.

I am trying to be fair to Galway, but I dont think people are being fair to Fay. Joyce destroyed one best corner backs in the country at time Mark Reilly. But if we use the above factual evidence.l you posted. It says this.

1 Joyce did not score 10 points on Fay. Joyce scores 5 points on Fay.
2 Joyce did not score double digits on Fay. As everyone always says. This is not reality. That did not happen.
3 Joyce scored 5 points from play. Only 2 of them while marked by Fay.
4 Fay kept Joyce scoreless from play in the first half. 6 points apiece at half time. In Fays words " Everything was grand" in the first half. Keeping one of the greatest forwards scoreless in the first half is not bad.
5 In the first 6 or 7 mins of the second half . Joyce scored 2 points from play.

This is significant Why?
Because incredibly for the first time in his career after 27 games a forward had scored more then one point from play marked by Fay.

This is signifucant why?
It shows the greatness of Joyce , he was the first forward after 27 championship matchs after 6 years to score more then one point of Fay.

This is signifcant why?
Most defenders would keeping one of thw greatest forwards of all time scoreless in the first half and letting that forward score 2 points play in a whole match a good performance. Nearly all defenders marking one of the greatest forwards of time and keeping them to 2 point from play in one game would be seen aa doing a great job marking that player.

This is significant why?
Because Fay did not mark Joyce for the next 20 mins. When Joyce ran riot Reilly was marking him. This is the reality of what happened. When Joyce scored 10 point, 5 of them were on Reilly.

This is Significant why?
Because it means Joyce did niot score 10 points neing marked by Fay.
Because Joyce scoree 5 points in total marked by Fay.
Because Joyce scored 2 points from play marked by Fay in the whole game.

This is signifcanf why?

Because it means when everyone say Joyce scored 10 point marked by Fay, 5 from play. This is untrue.
The truth, the reality was Joyce acored 2 points from play and 3 frees marked by Fay. When people say Joyce scored 10 points on Fay. This is not true. It uncorrect. Its misleading. Its a blatant untruth. A brexiteer of Tump supporter belives in falsehoods and untruth. I like to deal with factual evidence.

This is significant why?

Because for the first time in his career and 6 years and 27 championship matchs in a row a players scores a second point from play on Fay. Fay is unerved. Because for the first time after 27 games 2 All Ireland wins marking all time great players like Peter Cavanan, Maurice Fitzgerald and Fay was marking a forward who scored more then 1 point from play against. For brillant defender this wouldnt be an issue. But for a truly great defender
this was below his exceptional standards.

I have seen players in the modern era play in All Ireland finals and semis final and there opposing players scored 1 - 2 or 1 - 3 from play and the defender was said to have a good game. Kieth Higgins marked James O Donoghue in 2014 semi final. Higgins was praised for having a good game. He did. But he marked Donighur and Donoghue scored 2 - 6. Donoghue scored 4 points from play on Higgins.

Many many times in modern game I have seen defenders let their forward score 2 points from play in a whole game and they are seen as doing a good job.

Keeping one of the greatest forwards of all time Padraig Joyce to 2 points from play and 5 points in total in a whole game would be seen as good job by any brillant defender. But only a truly great defender like Fay would see marking one of greatest players of all.time and letting him score 2 points from play and 3 from.frees as a dreadful performance.

In Summary

Joyce is one of the greatest forward of all. time. His performance in 01 final is one greatest of all time.

But the TRUTH is
1 Joyce did not score 10 points being marked by Fay. For most of the second half Reilly was marking Joyce when he ran riot.
2 Joyce scored 5 points on Fay not 10 points.
3 Joyce scored 2 points from play on Fay not 5 points.
4 Fay kept Joyce scoreless in the first half, Joyce scored 2 points v Fay early in the second half and Reilly took for next 20 mins in second half.
5 I am just trying to set the facts right. People for 18 years have said Padraig Joyce scored 10 points being marked by Darren Fay.

Will ant Galway supporter admit the truth, that Joyce did not score then points marked by Joyce that Joyce scored 2 points ftom play marked by Fay.
Will any Galway supporter afmit the truth that Reilly marked Joyce when he ran riot in the second half.

It takes nothing away from Joyce greatness admitting the truth. The actual truth makes him more great. In that it was not til Fay marked Joyce in Fays 27th game in a row Joyce was the first and only forward to score more then 1 point from play v Fay. It actually how great Joyce was.
B
But all.I stating is the reality that Joyce did not score 10 points v Fay. Fay kept Joyce to 2 points from play in the whole game. Fay did not mark Joyce for 80% of the second half . When Joyce ran riot it was v Reilly.

It takes nothing away from Joyce . It actually makes him look a greater player when you accept the truth. Fay from 1996 to 2007 was the best full back in Ireland. Fay game after game in his first 6 years kept every to not more then 1 point from play
..In his career two players caused him.problems. Think of that 11 years a defender and only 2 forwards really caused him problems. In 2008 his legs were gone and in the qualifiers he struggled v limerick forward. But his legs were gone after 11 of being best full back in Ireland.

2 Players caused problems for Fay in those 11 years. 1996 to 2007.
They were Galway Joyce in 01 and Galways Meehan in 07.
Did they score 2 or 3 goals, did they score 4 or 5 points from play. Yes they caused him problems but they only scored 2 points from play v Fay.

In 01 Fay kept Joyce in championship scoreless in the first half.
In 07 Fay kept Meehan in championship scoreless in the first half.
In 01 Joyce scored 2 points from play marked by Fay in the second half
In 07 Meehan scored 2 points from play by Fay in the second half.

Fay was very upset with these two performances. He took himself of Joyce after he scored 2 points from play. And aftet letting Meehan scored 2 points from play Fay couldnt leave the house.

Imagine been a full back for 11 years and your worst games were when the in two different games 6 years apart. These Two different players scored 2 points from play against and this was a disaster. 11 years an inter county defender footballer and you worst performance our when two players you were marking scored 2 points from play. Is that not extraordinary..Thats why many consider Fay to one of the great full backs.

In 2001 one of the great full backs played one of the great forwards. That full back kept that forward scoreless in the first half. In the first 6 or 7 minutes that forward scored 2 from play. That defender for first time in 27 games had let a forward score more then 1 point fron play he was marking. He was unerved and asked his corner back to mark the forward. The corner back was roasted and 3 points from play and frees were scored v that corner back..For most of he second half when the forward ran riot the full back was not marking him. The forward scored 2 points play on thw full back in totql But afterwards everyone said he scored 5 from play from play and ten in total. This is was unfair and not the truth.

I understand Galway supporters think I am putting down Joyce performane. Im not . It was one of the greatest performance ever in a final. I am.just stating the truth and being fair to Fay.

Will any Galway supporter state the truth and be fair to Fay and agree with below
1 Fay did kept Joyce scoreless from play in the first half. And only marked for 7 or 8 mins of the first mins. Next 20 mins was on Reilly and this is when Joyce ran riot. and Fay took Joyce at the end of the game.
1 Joyce scored 2 points from play on Fay.
2 Joyce did not score 10 points on Fay.
3 And for most of the second half Joyce was being marked by Reilly.
4 When Joyce ran riot scoring 3 points from play ans frees in 20 mins it was v Reilly not Fay.

Thats what happened. I not going to change my mind and cannot change what happenned. It takes nothing away from the greatness of Joyce. He was the first player in 27 championship games and 6 yeaes to score more then 1 point marked by Fay. Joyce was one of the only two forwards to really trouble Fay in 11 years. Both scored 2 points from play v Fay. It actually shows what a great player Joyce. I have no more to say on the matter. I am not going to changing my mind because I cannot change what happened in the past. It happened. It would be just fair really if supporters would recognise Joyce didnt score 10 points on Fay , it was actaully 5 points on Fay and Joyce scored 2 points from play on Fay anf it was on Mark Reilly that Joyce ran riot."
You've repeated the same points a lot there. An awful lot. Fays own words to Reilly was he was being "roasted"! That's from the horse's mouth. He's admitted his mistake since but like it or lump it he took the cowards way out and abandoned ship and pushed it onto a colleague. Joyce in the majority of his play in the first half was as good as the second only that his shooting boots were left in the dressing room. He created plenty of chances off Fay in the first just didn't take them. That's all that stopped Fay dealing with the dreaded "two point syndrome" a lot earlier.

For me the biggest thing was never what Joyce scored off Fay. It was the fact he sent the one of the best full backs in Ireland running for the shadows rather than go toe to toe with. Head heart and talent Fay was well and truly roasted that day.

SamandLiamSoon (Galway) - Posts: 504 - 16/02/2020 22:52:12    2268048

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Replying To Furlong1949:  "Joyce is one the greatest forwards of all time. His performance in the 01 is one of the greatest performance by a forward in an All Ireland ever. You will find Meath supporters have great respect and great admiration for Padraig Joyce. Galway deserved to win the final that day, they were much better team and were well deserving All Ireland winners. A great team, the greatest team to come west of the shannon in last 50 years. Michael.Donnellan is one the most exciting talented footballers of last 50 years. But my favourite was Ja Fallon. He made that Galway team. tick, another great player.

I am trying to be fair to Galway, but I dont think people are being fair to Fay. Joyce destroyed one best corner backs in the country at time Mark Reilly. But if we use the above factual evidence.l you posted. It says this.

1 Joyce did not score 10 points on Fay. Joyce scores 5 points on Fay.
2 Joyce did not score double digits on Fay. As everyone always says. This is not reality. That did not happen.
3 Joyce scored 5 points from play. Only 2 of them while marked by Fay.
4 Fay kept Joyce scoreless from play in the first half. 6 points apiece at half time. In Fays words " Everything was grand" in the first half. Keeping one of the greatest forwards scoreless in the first half is not bad.
5 In the first 6 or 7 mins of the second half . Joyce scored 2 points from play.

This is significant Why?
Because incredibly for the first time in his career after 27 games a forward had scored more then one point from play marked by Fay.

This is signifucant why?
It shows the greatness of Joyce , he was the first forward after 27 championship matchs after 6 years to score more then one point of Fay.

This is signifcant why?
Most defenders would keeping one of thw greatest forwards of all time scoreless in the first half and letting that forward score 2 points play in a whole match a good performance. Nearly all defenders marking one of the greatest forwards of time and keeping them to 2 point from play in one game would be seen aa doing a great job marking that player.

This is significant why?
Because Fay did not mark Joyce for the next 20 mins. When Joyce ran riot Reilly was marking him. This is the reality of what happened. When Joyce scored 10 point, 5 of them were on Reilly.

This is Significant why?
Because it means Joyce did niot score 10 points neing marked by Fay.
Because Joyce scoree 5 points in total marked by Fay.
Because Joyce scored 2 points from play marked by Fay in the whole game.

This is signifcanf why?

Because it means when everyone say Joyce scored 10 point marked by Fay, 5 from play. This is untrue.
The truth, the reality was Joyce acored 2 points from play and 3 frees marked by Fay. When people say Joyce scored 10 points on Fay. This is not true. It uncorrect. Its misleading. Its a blatant untruth. A brexiteer of Tump supporter belives in falsehoods and untruth. I like to deal with factual evidence.

This is significant why?

Because for the first time in his career and 6 years and 27 championship matchs in a row a players scores a second point from play on Fay. Fay is unerved. Because for the first time after 27 games 2 All Ireland wins marking all time great players like Peter Cavanan, Maurice Fitzgerald and Fay was marking a forward who scored more then 1 point from play against. For brillant defender this wouldnt be an issue. But for a truly great defender
this was below his exceptional standards.

I have seen players in the modern era play in All Ireland finals and semis final and there opposing players scored 1 - 2 or 1 - 3 from play and the defender was said to have a good game. Kieth Higgins marked James O Donoghue in 2014 semi final. Higgins was praised for having a good game. He did. But he marked Donighur and Donoghue scored 2 - 6. Donoghue scored 4 points from play on Higgins.

Many many times in modern game I have seen defenders let their forward score 2 points from play in a whole game and they are seen as doing a good job.

Keeping one of the greatest forwards of all time Padraig Joyce to 2 points from play and 5 points in total in a whole game would be seen as good job by any brillant defender. But only a truly great defender like Fay would see marking one of greatest players of all.time and letting him score 2 points from play and 3 from.frees as a dreadful performance.

In Summary

Joyce is one of the greatest forward of all. time. His performance in 01 final is one greatest of all time.

But the TRUTH is
1 Joyce did not score 10 points being marked by Fay. For most of the second half Reilly was marking Joyce when he ran riot.
2 Joyce scored 5 points on Fay not 10 points.
3 Joyce scored 2 points from play on Fay not 5 points.
4 Fay kept Joyce scoreless in the first half, Joyce scored 2 points v Fay early in the second half and Reilly took for next 20 mins in second half.
5 I am just trying to set the facts right. People for 18 years have said Padraig Joyce scored 10 points being marked by Darren Fay.

Will ant Galway supporter admit the truth, that Joyce did not score then points marked by Joyce that Joyce scored 2 points ftom play marked by Fay.
Will any Galway supporter afmit the truth that Reilly marked Joyce when he ran riot in the second half.

It takes nothing away from Joyce greatness admitting the truth. The actual truth makes him more great. In that it was not til Fay marked Joyce in Fays 27th game in a row Joyce was the first and only forward to score more then 1 point from play v Fay. It actually how great Joyce was.
B
But all.I stating is the reality that Joyce did not score 10 points v Fay. Fay kept Joyce to 2 points from play in the whole game. Fay did not mark Joyce for 80% of the second half . When Joyce ran riot it was v Reilly.

It takes nothing away from Joyce . It actually makes him look a greater player when you accept the truth. Fay from 1996 to 2007 was the best full back in Ireland. Fay game after game in his first 6 years kept every to not more then 1 point from play
..In his career two players caused him.problems. Think of that 11 years a defender and only 2 forwards really caused him problems. In 2008 his legs were gone and in the qualifiers he struggled v limerick forward. But his legs were gone after 11 of being best full back in Ireland.

2 Players caused problems for Fay in those 11 years. 1996 to 2007.
They were Galway Joyce in 01 and Galways Meehan in 07.
Did they score 2 or 3 goals, did they score 4 or 5 points from play. Yes they caused him problems but they only scored 2 points from play v Fay.

In 01 Fay kept Joyce in championship scoreless in the first half.
In 07 Fay kept Meehan in championship scoreless in the first half.
In 01 Joyce scored 2 points from play marked by Fay in the second half
In 07 Meehan scored 2 points from play by Fay in the second half.

Fay was very upset with these two performances. He took himself of Joyce after he scored 2 points from play. And aftet letting Meehan scored 2 points from play Fay couldnt leave the house.

Imagine been a full back for 11 years and your worst games were when the in two different games 6 years apart. These Two different players scored 2 points from play against and this was a disaster. 11 years an inter county defender footballer and you worst performance our when two players you were marking scored 2 points from play. Is that not extraordinary..Thats why many consider Fay to one of the great full backs.

In 2001 one of the great full backs played one of the great forwards. That full back kept that forward scoreless in the first half. In the first 6 or 7 minutes that forward scored 2 from play. That defender for first time in 27 games had let a forward score more then 1 point fron play he was marking. He was unerved and asked his corner back to mark the forward. The corner back was roasted and 3 points from play and frees were scored v that corner back..For most of he second half when the forward ran riot the full back was not marking him. The forward scored 2 points play on thw full back in totql But afterwards everyone said he scored 5 from play from play and ten in total. This is was unfair and not the truth.

I understand Galway supporters think I am putting down Joyce performane. Im not . It was one of the greatest performance ever in a final. I am.just stating the truth and being fair to Fay.

Will any Galway supporter state the truth and be fair to Fay and agree with below
1 Fay did kept Joyce scoreless from play in the first half. And only marked for 7 or 8 mins of the first mins. Next 20 mins was on Reilly and this is when Joyce ran riot. and Fay took Joyce at the end of the game.
1 Joyce scored 2 points from play on Fay.
2 Joyce did not score 10 points on Fay.
3 And for most of the second half Joyce was being marked by Reilly.
4 When Joyce ran riot scoring 3 points from play ans frees in 20 mins it was v Reilly not Fay.

Thats what happened. I not going to change my mind and cannot change what happenned. It takes nothing away from the greatness of Joyce. He was the first player in 27 championship games and 6 yeaes to score more then 1 point marked by Fay. Joyce was one of the only two forwards to really trouble Fay in 11 years. Both scored 2 points from play v Fay. It actually shows what a great player Joyce. I have no more to say on the matter. I am not going to changing my mind because I cannot change what happened in the past. It happened. It would be just fair really if supporters would recognise Joyce didnt score 10 points on Fay , it was actaully 5 points on Fay and Joyce scored 2 points from play on Fay anf it was on Mark Reilly that Joyce ran riot."
As Disraeli once stated there are stats, stats and dammed lies... PJ was man of the match, Fay had a nightmare it could have been 15 or 16 points but for the missed frees in the first half and the missed goal chance after halftime when panic set in.

There also goes the story about the Meath bus driver who found the Meath water bottles on the bus, he went in after the Meath team, a Croke Park official sent him to the wrong dressing room as the teams had gone out to watch the minor match. Galway players drank the bottles at half time, imagine if Sean Boylan had concocted an energy drink but the opposition got it.... ah probably just a story but it makes you wonder!! Perhaps Galway got superpowers and this ensured Meath stayed behind us in the roll of honour. We mighy even get to 'LA DECIMA' before you. But 7 is a great number also.

GDL (Galway) - Posts: 394 - 16/02/2020 23:36:25    2268054

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