National Forum

Down v Monaghan

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Replying To artisan:  "Definitely wanted to avoid Armagh. Our record against Armagh is dire and they look to be moving up the gears. Monaghan haven't played well and I'm not so sure that it will happen for you this year. Big game for both teams. I'm by no means writing off Monaghan but at this moment I'd take Monaghan over Armagh all day long."
Fair enough, you're probably right in saying that it's the draw both teams would have wanted. I was just curious who yous would prefer as it's a rare case that a beaten provincial finalist can only meet one of two teams they'd already beaten. Revenge would be on the mind of both teams but I suppose we were the least impressive in our defeat.

patk (Monaghan) - Posts: 937 - 19/07/2017 19:23:20    2019504

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Replying To s goldrick:  "I think Monaghan peaked against Cavan. They put so much in to that game that they havn't recovered. I can see a few straight reds in this game. Down to win again."
Can also see some straight reds in this game and hopefully the officials as well as Monaghan are on top of their game come Saturday week .Monaghan need a lot of tweeking but hopefully won't be getting any nipple tweeking as seen in clones on Sunday,

stoneygrey (Monaghan) - Posts: 229 - 19/07/2017 19:29:52    2019505

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Its like perfecting the classic ambush
and then celebrating getting over a
hard battle as much out of relief as
anything... and then looking up and
on the horizon is a second wave of
cavalry you hadn't bargained for. The
first battle Monaghan brought bows
and arrows but I think this time they
will bring the heavy artillery. Down will
fight fire with fire so I expect a lot of black
and red cards. Whoever better channels
their aggression. Monaghan couldn't
match Down for hunger last time but
if anything the desire for revenge will
probably make Monaghan more hungry
this time. Yet the performance against
Carlow was very average and its hard
to turn form on and off. Form is temporary though and class is permanent
and Monaghan have some class players.
So its a very hard match to call.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1700 - 19/07/2017 20:19:22    2019526

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Unless Armagh can upset Kildare, the
"reward" for both teams will be a
quarter final against Dublin. Down
will definitely play Dublin if they win.

REDANDBLACK30 (Down) - Posts: 1700 - 19/07/2017 20:28:55    2019533

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Replying To REDANDBLACK30:  "Its like perfecting the classic ambush
and then celebrating getting over a
hard battle as much out of relief as
anything... and then looking up and
on the horizon is a second wave of
cavalry you hadn't bargained for. The
first battle Monaghan brought bows
and arrows but I think this time they
will bring the heavy artillery. Down will
fight fire with fire so I expect a lot of black
and red cards. Whoever better channels
their aggression. Monaghan couldn't
match Down for hunger last time but
if anything the desire for revenge will
probably make Monaghan more hungry
this time. Yet the performance against
Carlow was very average and its hard
to turn form on and off. Form is temporary though and class is permanent
and Monaghan have some class players.
So its a very hard match to call."
Good honest summary there. I think first day out Monaghan had the worst lead up a team like us can have who don't do well as favourites. We were facing a side we'd beaten by a cricket score the year before everyone was talking in the media about Tyrone Monaghan final. That stuff was bound to seep into the players it shouldnt i know and its one of the reasons we never have backed up ulster titles in the quarter final.It was on other hand perfect build up for Down written off with point to prove. So I wasn't surprised at difference in hunger at all. Hard match to predict as you say we ain't in form and the hope is croke park brings the McManus and McCarron axis back to life added to undoubted revenge motivation a lot of our players will have. I can see it being a dogfight with us pulling clear in last 10 as even in games we haven't played well we have finished the better team. The worry has to be is there a full 70 minutes in us this Summer rather than the 10 minute bursts.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1880 - 19/07/2017 21:31:40    2019587

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Replying To artisan:  "I hope Down can shake off Clones and give everything for the next few weeks, to go out against Monaghan would be a disappointing end to a championship that promised so much. Monaghan will be happier with us than Kildare, likewise, I think we're happier with getting Monaghan. They've yet to produce in this championship and Down should be confident. Monaghan's performances to date haven't matched their hype."
That's what's wrong with us.. Far too much hype.. You'd think we were world beaters. Local media is to blame for a lot of it.

border Gael (Monaghan) - Posts: 906 - 19/07/2017 22:06:36    2019614

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This game is set up nicely for Monaghan. The hype has settled after their defeat to Down, coupled with a 'poor' performance against Carlow. They couldn't have wished for a better draw to kick-start their season.

Monaghan's games vs Wexford and Carlow were always going to be 'lose lose' situations. They absolutely pummelled Wexford and got no credit for it. Then they struggled over a very well organised and ultra-defensive Carlow side and people are saying that this Monaghan side are struggling and look poor.

Monaghan are one big performance away from an All-Ireland quarter final and they will be delighted to have the chance to avenge for last month's defeat.

Down on the other hand are hurting after a poor showing in the Ulster Final, albeit against a very good Tyrone side. We never really got going, but credit to the team in the last 10 minutes, they didn't throw the towel in and actually played some decent football.

On paper I think this game is 50/50. This Down team is better than they have been given credit for, and perhaps this Monaghan side have been slightly over hyped (by no fault of their own). However, psychologically this game is probably 70/30 in Monaghan's favour.

Everyone knows how difficult it is for the losing provincial finalists to recover to win their next match and for this reason I think Monaghan have the edge.

If Down win this match, it'll be a much more impressive result than last month's Ulster semi-final in my opinion. Here's hoping.

Hoping Down supporters travel down to Croke Park in their numbers. Let's get behind our boys in red n black! An Dún Abú

MourneArmy (Down) - Posts: 1787 - 21/07/2017 15:16:08    2020600

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Replying To MourneArmy:  "This game is set up nicely for Monaghan. The hype has settled after their defeat to Down, coupled with a 'poor' performance against Carlow. They couldn't have wished for a better draw to kick-start their season.

Monaghan's games vs Wexford and Carlow were always going to be 'lose lose' situations. They absolutely pummelled Wexford and got no credit for it. Then they struggled over a very well organised and ultra-defensive Carlow side and people are saying that this Monaghan side are struggling and look poor.

Monaghan are one big performance away from an All-Ireland quarter final and they will be delighted to have the chance to avenge for last month's defeat.

Down on the other hand are hurting after a poor showing in the Ulster Final, albeit against a very good Tyrone side. We never really got going, but credit to the team in the last 10 minutes, they didn't throw the towel in and actually played some decent football.

On paper I think this game is 50/50. This Down team is better than they have been given credit for, and perhaps this Monaghan side have been slightly over hyped (by no fault of their own). However, psychologically this game is probably 70/30 in Monaghan's favour.

Everyone knows how difficult it is for the losing provincial finalists to recover to win their next match and for this reason I think Monaghan have the edge.

If Down win this match, it'll be a much more impressive result than last month's Ulster semi-final in my opinion. Here's hoping.

Hoping Down supporters travel down to Croke Park in their numbers. Let's get behind our boys in red n black! An Dún Abú"
Everyone knows how difficult it is for the losing provincial finalists to recover to win their next match and for this reason I think Monaghan have the edge.

With 2 weeks recovery now there is much less excuse now for beaten provincial losers. So no excuses ........the best team will win !

Shelbourne (Monaghan) - Posts: 567 - 21/07/2017 16:13:59    2020636

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Everybody including myself think Monaghan will be well up for the re-match and a good match it should be. I think also the open plains of Croke Park will suit the Farney Forwards much better than the tight corners of Armagh. However, this Down team have shown a will and a desire well beyond their current development as a team. Tyrone were better on the day and finished well clear but what didn't happen was the downing of tools from the Red & Blacks. They weren't going to go out with a whimper and showed plenty of good football in the last 10-15 mins to offer plenty of encouragement going into the qualifiers. I cant wait for the Double Header at Croke Park and I hope whoever wins can keep going. Always had alot of time for Monaghan people and team. And let us unite and pray as one that Armagh get the hiding they deserve!!!! Lol!!!!

HarpsUltra (Down) - Posts: 4 - 21/07/2017 16:18:17    2020641

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Monaghan made 23 unforced attacking errors in 70mins against Carlow. Down will capitalize big time if this happens again, which is likely based on the trend all year.
Defence ok but not severly tested for a few weeks now.

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1183 - 21/07/2017 17:03:26    2020652

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Replying To Shelbourne:  "Everyone knows how difficult it is for the losing provincial finalists to recover to win their next match and for this reason I think Monaghan have the edge.

With 2 weeks recovery now there is much less excuse now for beaten provincial losers. So no excuses ........the best team will win !"
Two weeks definitely helps, but the losing provincial finalists are still at a disadvantage compared with the qualifier winners.

If Monaghan win I won't be using the Ulster final as an excuse. But I think the four losing provincial finalists should play each other for a place in the quarter final. That way no team is at a disadvantage.

MourneArmy (Down) - Posts: 1787 - 21/07/2017 17:43:27    2020660

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Replying To MourneArmy:  "
Replying To Shelbourne:  "Everyone knows how difficult it is for the losing provincial finalists to recover to win their next match and for this reason I think Monaghan have the edge.

With 2 weeks recovery now there is much less excuse now for beaten provincial losers. So no excuses ........the best team will win !"
Two weeks definitely helps, but the losing provincial finalists are still at a disadvantage compared with the qualifier winners.

If Monaghan win I won't be using the Ulster final as an excuse. But I think the four losing provincial finalists should play each other for a place in the quarter final. That way no team is at a disadvantage."
I personally think the beaten provincial finalists should have a home draw as there reward for getting into there finals.

Yourjoking (USA) - Posts: 744 - 21/07/2017 18:47:00    2020679

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Replying To HarpsUltra:  "Everybody including myself think Monaghan will be well up for the re-match and a good match it should be. I think also the open plains of Croke Park will suit the Farney Forwards much better than the tight corners of Armagh. However, this Down team have shown a will and a desire well beyond their current development as a team. Tyrone were better on the day and finished well clear but what didn't happen was the downing of tools from the Red & Blacks. They weren't going to go out with a whimper and showed plenty of good football in the last 10-15 mins to offer plenty of encouragement going into the qualifiers. I cant wait for the Double Header at Croke Park and I hope whoever wins can keep going. Always had alot of time for Monaghan people and team. And let us unite and pray as one that Armagh get the hiding they deserve!!!! Lol!!!!"
Appreciate your comments about Monaghan & can confirm that we always held the Red & Black in highest esteem. In both our interests though if Armagh beat Kildare as winners of our game avoid Dubs in QF.

Shelbourne (Monaghan) - Posts: 567 - 21/07/2017 20:59:56    2020710

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Replying To Shelbourne:  "Appreciate your comments about Monaghan & can confirm that we always held the Red & Black in highest esteem. In both our interests though if Armagh beat Kildare as winners of our game avoid Dubs in QF."
There is 5 teams that are miles ahead of all the rest 1/ Kerry 2/ Dublin 3/ Tyrone 4/ Mayo 5/ Cork the rest should play in a second tear competition we all have seen how easy Dublin, Kerry, and Tyrone won their finals pulling up

nosides (Down) - Posts: 239 - 21/07/2017 22:30:11    2020733

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Down did not come out of the final with much damage. They were in the game up to half time and there is no reason why Monaghan should be favourities on performances in the back door. I fancy Down just.

Byanthon (Tyrone) - Posts: 1792 - 22/07/2017 08:49:37    2020777

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Replying To Byanthon:  "Down did not come out of the final with much damage. They were in the game up to half time and there is no reason why Monaghan should be favourities on performances in the back door. I fancy Down just."
I agree. At 0-14 to 0-5 after 50 mins or so, I was fearing it could get very ugly for Down. The game was over at that stage but I was very pleased with how we performed in the last 15 minutes. We actually won that period 0-10 to 2-3. I know Tyrone were sitting back and letting us play a bit more, but from a Down perspective our players showed character. They refused to throw the towel in and that was very pleasing.

Overall, Tyrone were the much better team there is absolutely no doubt about that. They are serious All-Ireland contenders along with Dublin and Kerry.

Monaghan are rightly favourites to beat Down. They are a top division 1 side with All-Ireland aspirations of their own. But I wouldn't write off Down's chances, it's all on the day in championship football.

MourneArmy (Down) - Posts: 1787 - 22/07/2017 10:42:51    2020809

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The fact that these thread (prior to this post) was languishing on the third page of main forum and that on the Down board, posters would rather discuss their under-17 league is an indication of how little interest this one is generating.
It always seems that the B section of qualifiers gets overshadowed because the A side is always one round ahead. Especially these 4B matches with the quarter-finals taking place on Sunday.

I have checked though and the match is definitely still on, on Saturday at 5pm at what will probably be a half-empty Croker. In the only newspaper article I've found on the game so far this week, Malachy O'Rourke makes the shocking admission that "it's very much a 50-50 game'.

Mike Patton (Monaghan) - Posts: 82 - 26/07/2017 13:59:30    2023865

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Monaghan supporters would usually be in good tune heading into a match with a quarter final place at stake. But decidedly average outings against fermanagh, cavan and wexford, and very poor shows against down and carlow, have knocked the enthusiasm back a bit from earlier in the year.
Add the fact that the 'prize' for winning is a quick turnaround to face Dublin (most likely) and its all very low-key at this stage. Hoping for a very good Croke Park performance to push the year into August, expectation is a bit less than that.

Eddie the Exile (Monaghan) - Posts: 1183 - 26/07/2017 14:20:08    2023892

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The experts in RTE have ranked Down bottom of all the teams that were left in the championship. We don't seem to have got much credit for our performances to date the 2 teams we already beat are still ranked higher. I guess their judgement was made on our second half performace in the Ulster final. Hopefully our boys can learn, refocus and prove that they are better than this. I know they have worked hard from the ulster final so we will see what happens saturday. Underdogs again....

downtothecore (Down) - Posts: 349 - 26/07/2017 21:38:49    2024164

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I'd agree with lot of posts here going there on Saturday more in hope than expectation that the team can put in a big performance which will be good enough to beat Down. Two possibilities here either the team has been trained all year to peak for this time of year and is ready to step up or it is running on near empty since the end of the league and trying to win matches in 10 -15 min bursts which won't be good enough from here on. To be fair to Down we totally underestimated them in Armagh which you would think at a minimum wont happen again here. We are no longer going in against a side we beat by 19 points but one that bullied us and outplayed us in an ulster semi final. That will alter the mindset of the Monaghan players who should be relishing renewing acquintances to put things right.Problem for us through is our forwards aren't firing and that is making it a lot harder to win matches plus we are a lot weaker defensively as the year has gone on compared to other years. Down on the other hand are in decent form going in here they didn't suffer too much damage v Tyrone and will be full of belief they can win this. They traditionally relish croker, our lads dont have a great record there. It really is a 50 50 match and could be a dogfight and probably a bit bad tempered also i would imagine so whichever team keeps their discipline and shape will win.

seanie08 (Monaghan) - Posts: 1880 - 27/07/2017 12:06:53    2024389

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