Meath Forum

Problems And Solutions

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Replying To TownJohnT:  "Meaths problem is more fundamental. Everywhere I read,"the players are not there". The question should be, WHY? We need to look at the structures in place, starting at the clubs. Player Pathways are there to develop the skills and the person. Unfortunately, most coaches won't/can't use them. Who are coaching the young players? Fathers? The parent who wants to make sure their child is at the centre of the team. I ask you to look at your club juvenile section. How many of the coaches are parents of the players in the team? Have a look at the county juvenile coaches! How many parents are there coaching there children? Look at other county backroom staff, very different set up. An audit of club and county coaching needs to be done ASAP. Then put a plan together to improve the standard of coaching. We also need to unite as a county. STOP this football v hurling. We are one county! Fix the Fundamentals!"
I help out with my young son's (he's still in primary school) underage club team although am not the head coach.
The GAA is primarily an amateur volunteering organisation, we're not going to have paid professional coaches coaching the juvenile teams at clubs. In underage club teams where your looking for people to help out of course it is the parents helping out.

GreenMan1987 (Meath) - Posts: 50 - 26/04/2023 11:52:28    2473946

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In recent times with a new manager we always appear to clear out many of the previous managers players. I never understood why this happens. Players are dropped from the panels even though its obvious to most people that they are better than the young replacement coming in. The likes of Cian Ward getting dropped even though he was still playing great at the time. Made no sense to me. Similarly with this years team Mc Gill etc. Perhaps Colm management team feel that you need to develop a whole new generation of players and its worth the gamble. The gamble backfired this year but hopefully the overall plan will bring a new young group of players together that will do us proud in the future.

Poormouth (Meath) - Posts: 204 - 26/04/2023 12:14:44    2473953

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We've been watching, in the main, woeful club football in Meath with a poor structure now for as far as I can remember. This is the elephant in the room. We have a very watery senior championship with far too many teams. A regrading is a must. Should be 12 max if not 10. Moynalvey curraha bracks sench' simonstown and even a few others aren't senior level anymore. Just threading water, hoping to pick up that one win to keep them up for another year.... its actually anti competitive. I'm not sure how we get to where we need to be but it has to be addressed whether the clubs like it or not.

southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 937 - 26/04/2023 12:50:10    2473982

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Replying To Poormouth:  "In recent times with a new manager we always appear to clear out many of the previous managers players. I never understood why this happens. Players are dropped from the panels even though its obvious to most people that they are better than the young replacement coming in. The likes of Cian Ward getting dropped even though he was still playing great at the time. Made no sense to me. Similarly with this years team Mc Gill etc. Perhaps Colm management team feel that you need to develop a whole new generation of players and its worth the gamble. The gamble backfired this year but hopefully the overall plan will bring a new young group of players together that will do us proud in the future."
McGill will be back next year if we change management if we wait to the following year to change then I doubt it

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 26/04/2023 12:59:39    2473988

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Replying To nobull456:  "Yes......development squads .......you have to wonder why are basic skills so poor still ? develop what and how ? how is the effectivness of a development squad measured...... Same goes for training sessions...Training what? To train in anything you must be able to identify the training need Gods knows the dogs in the street can see what the needs are looking at the senior team for the last few years . It seems training sessions do not assist with filling clearly indentified needs in on field performance..WHY? How are training sessions and their effectiveness measured ? Not rocket science but were taking about basic stuff here fielding ,kicking ,ball control, support play etc. etc. Thats why i say the top table need to come to the front and look at how things are done nowadays.Are we doing things now just because thats the way we always did them even in the Boylan era?
Its not about selection of players who plays and does not play.Great if it was that simple . The problem is much larger because of years of neglect or lack of vision from the top. Colm O Rourke is bearing the brunt of it now. He
is partly to blame of course for recurring mistakes not being dealt with on field play . To me what Colm is doing is trying to pull up weeds .He may be getting the bits that are overground and leaving the roots behind to come again. The roots are with the county board. They need the spade and shovel starting with proper audits of everything that impacts on standards on and off the field development squads, training sessions , Player welfare,succession planning, etc .etc. After that we might need a sweeping brush. Colm o Rourke or anyone else cant fix this on their own . The roots are the problem. Maybe the cb can surprise us by being pro active and looking at themselves to begin with looking at skillsets that exist at the top table and measure against current requirements. They should have no problem either in justifying development to improve their skillset to meet required demands for the role in the interests of Meath GAA."
Should it be up to development squads and senior management to address basic skills like fielding, kicking and ball control, if players are arriving lacking in these areas, then I suggest it is to late in the day. Skill such as these shoud be embedded in players from a very early stage and coaching at intercounty level should be more about honeing these skills, not starting with basics. Player should arrive ready to play and its managements job to have system in place to get the best out of them. For years now we seem to have neither. How many coaches are employed in Meath to visit schools and clubs? Most clubs rely on parents and members to preform these duties and by and large they do a good job. I have no doubt that players selected for development squads across the age groups are by and large the best we have and look the part in training against their peers. But wheels seem to come off when they leave the training ground and enter the comperitive arena. The CB have become the whipping boys and I would love to ask coaches and managers across the grades what more can they do? What if anything is been witheld. Also question for CB, are they been hindered in any way by the divide between clubs? If CB have the backing of the clubs and are not doing their job, then what are the clubs doing about it?.I agree CB may be lacking in some areas, required skill may not be there, so how do we address this, after all we rely on people giving up their time to do the job. Is there better equiped men or women within county who are being denied their chance to shine?

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 26/04/2023 13:13:07    2473991

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Replying To southmeathgael:  "We've been watching, in the main, woeful club football in Meath with a poor structure now for as far as I can remember. This is the elephant in the room. We have a very watery senior championship with far too many teams. A regrading is a must. Should be 12 max if not 10. Moynalvey curraha bracks sench' simonstown and even a few others aren't senior level anymore. Just threading water, hoping to pick up that one win to keep them up for another year.... its actually anti competitive. I'm not sure how we get to where we need to be but it has to be addressed whether the clubs like it or not."
All them teams you mentioned should be intermediate ( moynalvey ,curraha ,Bracks sench , Simontown )
Senior champion in Meath is not competitive , but neither is it in most county's , Crossmaglen walk the Armagh championship every year mostly and there club game is not competitive, but yet the county team is very good !

Meath intermediate champion is very competitive , it's like the ulster championship , but yet I don't know how many players actually are on the Meath senior team that play intermediate.

Changing the club system in Meath is not going to create or Coach a better player , it's just going to make the competition better within its own system , bad footballers can be competitive to if you lump them all together in there own system and never improve because that's there standard playing against badly Coached footballers ! What will make a better player is better coaching at club level , the standard of coaching at club level in Meath is terrible , that's your problem

WhyTheLongFace (Meath) - Posts: 934 - 26/04/2023 13:39:20    2473999

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Replying To TownJohnT:  "Meaths problem is more fundamental. Everywhere I read,"the players are not there". The question should be, WHY? We need to look at the structures in place, starting at the clubs. Player Pathways are there to develop the skills and the person. Unfortunately, most coaches won't/can't use them. Who are coaching the young players? Fathers? The parent who wants to make sure their child is at the centre of the team. I ask you to look at your club juvenile section. How many of the coaches are parents of the players in the team? Have a look at the county juvenile coaches! How many parents are there coaching there children? Look at other county backroom staff, very different set up. An audit of club and county coaching needs to be done ASAP. Then put a plan together to improve the standard of coaching. We also need to unite as a county. STOP this football v hurling. We are one county! Fix the Fundamentals!"
Incredibly naive to think that there is any way of having non parents as juvenile coaches in the clubs. And also way off if you think this is one of the main reasons behind our issues of the last 20 odd years .

There is a reason why probably 99% of juvenile coaches are parents of kids that play on the team. Because it is extremely rare to have someone who doesn't have a child on the team to get involved in an under age club team. It just doesn't happen.

Also all over the country including the likes of Dublin Kerry Tyrone or Kilkenny Limerick Tipp in hurling you will have parents coaching the childs team and they have no issue with success .

Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 1003 - 26/04/2023 13:51:59    2474004

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Replying To Poormouth:  "In recent times with a new manager we always appear to clear out many of the previous managers players. I never understood why this happens. Players are dropped from the panels even though its obvious to most people that they are better than the young replacement coming in. The likes of Cian Ward getting dropped even though he was still playing great at the time. Made no sense to me. Similarly with this years team Mc Gill etc. Perhaps Colm management team feel that you need to develop a whole new generation of players and its worth the gamble. The gamble backfired this year but hopefully the overall plan will bring a new young group of players together that will do us proud in the future."
Was there many dropped? Few lads decided their time was up, still a few out injured. James Mac is back. Apart from that its hard to think of anyone who would make a whole lot of difference. I would like to have seen Conlon part of setup as least he brings a bit of tempo and well able to kick a point

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 26/04/2023 14:00:01    2474007

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Replying To royaldunne:  "McGill will be back next year if we change management if we wait to the following year to change then I doubt it"
Are you suggesting we change management to get Mc gill back ? He is no Darren Fay, Mick Lyons or Mark O Reilly

Analyst (Meath) - Posts: 1489 - 26/04/2023 14:10:04    2474010

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Replying To TownJohnT:  "Meaths problem is more fundamental. Everywhere I read,"the players are not there". The question should be, WHY? We need to look at the structures in place, starting at the clubs. Player Pathways are there to develop the skills and the person. Unfortunately, most coaches won't/can't use them. Who are coaching the young players? Fathers? The parent who wants to make sure their child is at the centre of the team. I ask you to look at your club juvenile section. How many of the coaches are parents of the players in the team? Have a look at the county juvenile coaches! How many parents are there coaching there children? Look at other county backroom staff, very different set up. An audit of club and county coaching needs to be done ASAP. Then put a plan together to improve the standard of coaching. We also need to unite as a county. STOP this football v hurling. We are one county! Fix the Fundamentals!"
I think you're been unfair to parents who give up their time to volunteer at club level.I coach my son (primary school age)not head coach but I help out.Ive played for the club all my life so what am i meant to do not bother to give a bit back.There is no way the club could pay for coaches for all the teams.While I can see your point about fathers,mothers putting sons on the team ahead of others it's not a new thing.Its been happening for years while not right it's not the cause of Meaths problems.If that was the case the glory days of 80s and 90s wouldn't have happened because it was happening back then as well.Ypu want the young boys/ Girls to take up football if you have no coaches then there is no football for them.Things are changing they have development squads no from under 12s up so top players in the club go to these a couple of times a week and get trained by qualified coaches.Back in my day you has trials East,west,North and South Meath against each other only a couple of games and you were picked off those games.I think in theory this better giving lads/girls more time to develop and play to their strengths.

Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 294 - 26/04/2023 14:14:05    2474011

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Replying To WhyTheLongFace:  "All them teams you mentioned should be intermediate ( moynalvey ,curraha ,Bracks sench , Simontown )
Senior champion in Meath is not competitive , but neither is it in most county's , Crossmaglen walk the Armagh championship every year mostly and there club game is not competitive, but yet the county team is very good !

Meath intermediate champion is very competitive , it's like the ulster championship , but yet I don't know how many players actually are on the Meath senior team that play intermediate.

Changing the club system in Meath is not going to create or Coach a better player , it's just going to make the competition better within its own system , bad footballers can be competitive to if you lump them all together in there own system and never improve because that's there standard playing against badly Coached footballers ! What will make a better player is better coaching at club level , the standard of coaching at club level in Meath is terrible , that's your problem"
Changing number of teams in senior will not automatically mean a better player, but their game becomes more competitive and intensity levels go up a notch or two. Hopefully resulting in improvement in basic skills when they stepup to county level. Is it a requirement in Meath to have completed a coaching course before taking charge of a team? Doubt if resources are there to bring in suitable person to coach all our teams. My own club down south have ongoing courses, starting form under six and its required through thr grades. If CB resource the coaching do clubs attend or is it a case of we know best?

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 26/04/2023 14:18:01    2474014

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Replying To southmeathgael:  "We've been watching, in the main, woeful club football in Meath with a poor structure now for as far as I can remember. This is the elephant in the room. We have a very watery senior championship with far too many teams. A regrading is a must. Should be 12 max if not 10. Moynalvey curraha bracks sench' simonstown and even a few others aren't senior level anymore. Just threading water, hoping to pick up that one win to keep them up for another year.... its actually anti competitive. I'm not sure how we get to where we need to be but it has to be addressed whether the clubs like it or not."
Cork brought in changes a few years back to at least attempt to make all senior grades more competitive. They now have Senior, Senior A, Premier Intermediate and Intermediate, more teams playing at correct level, resulting in more competitive games and fewer hidings for teams playing at a level that suits. Would not be in favour of Divisional system as in Cork, experienced it first hand and was a shambles. Sure its only playing around the edges, but we have to do something to improve current standards.

seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 26/04/2023 14:30:14    2474021

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Meath players haven't got it physically, that is easily remedied. They also haven't got it mentally as a unit, do we have a sports psychologist in place?
Third problem is we have no natural superstars but you can bridge that gap some what with the right application

atta (Meath) - Posts: 704 - 26/04/2023 14:49:57    2474030

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Replying To WhyTheLongFace:  "All them teams you mentioned should be intermediate ( moynalvey ,curraha ,Bracks sench , Simontown )
Senior champion in Meath is not competitive , but neither is it in most county's , Crossmaglen walk the Armagh championship every year mostly and there club game is not competitive, but yet the county team is very good !

Meath intermediate champion is very competitive , it's like the ulster championship , but yet I don't know how many players actually are on the Meath senior team that play intermediate.

Changing the club system in Meath is not going to create or Coach a better player , it's just going to make the competition better within its own system , bad footballers can be competitive to if you lump them all together in there own system and never improve because that's there standard playing against badly Coached footballers ! What will make a better player is better coaching at club level , the standard of coaching at club level in Meath is terrible , that's your problem"
From the Meath panel last Sunday the following were from Intermediate clubs or below:
Harry Hogan
Michael Flood (Junior)
Donal Keogan
Sean Brennan
Harry O'Higgins
Jason Scully
Keith Curtis

Seven of the 26 man squad last week were from Intermediate of Junior Clubs. That is a very healthy representation from them. I would be asking questions as to why some huge clubs in Meath, tradition and population wise, can't produce players currently good enough to make the Meath squad. Clubs like namely Navan O'Mahonys, Simonstown, St Colmcilles, Don/Ash, Walterstown, St Patricks Stamullen, Gael Colmcille currently don't have a single player on the Senior squad.

BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 997 - 26/04/2023 14:58:34    2474032

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Replying To Analyst:  "Are you suggesting we change management to get Mc gill back ? He is no Darren Fay, Mick Lyons or Mark O Reilly"
No I'm not. I'm pointing out he won't play under current management and I'd say a fair few others will be of same opinion should we persist for another year.
What I am saying is we change manager for the good of Meath football, to arrest this terrible decline and slip into footballing oblivion. Honestly at this stage anyone would be better

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 26/04/2023 14:58:36    2474033

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Replying To royaldunne:  "No I'm not. I'm pointing out he won't play under current management and I'd say a fair few others will be of same opinion should we persist for another year.
What I am saying is we change manager for the good of Meath football, to arrest this terrible decline and slip into footballing oblivion. Honestly at this stage anyone would be better"
Hmmm interestingly 12 months ago most on here said the same about one Andy Mcentee and you told us different…. Told us we were delusional

You've had the knife out for Colm from day one. At least own it.

And here's the big one, we remove O'Rourke who replaces him… there was no stellar cast of options available… Flynn and O'Rourke that's it… you wanted Eamonn Fitzmaurice… a fallacy to think he'd even be interested, same for any top quality manager… and to remove a Meath legend within a year… what outside manager that you're screaming for would take the job knowing that's what we'd do to our own…. They'd laugh at the county board for even approaching us

Meath are a laughing stock the country over, it's not O'Rourke or mcentee or O'Dowds fault…honest men, they've done what they could, players are declining, losing interest and moving on to further their lives.

The county board and executive are the root cause of things… plain and simple. They were Absent at the wheel 20 plus years ago when they laughed O'Rourke out of the room when he put a plan to maintain Meath at the top table.

Our ladies teams have been successful in spite of the county board and look what's happened since Eamonn Murray and a few ladies took some time for themselves. They've gone backwards, but theirs no photo ops for county board now, so they'll do nothing about it, the girls will struggle on and play for the enjoyment they can get out of it and be like the mens team in 6 years time back in the pack and we'll talk about the glory days of 21 and 22

brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 26/04/2023 15:26:53    2474039

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Replying To atta:  "Meath players haven't got it physically, that is easily remedied. They also haven't got it mentally as a unit, do we have a sports psychologist in place?
Third problem is we have no natural superstars but you can bridge that gap some what with the right application"
Your second point hits the nail on the head.We dont have the mentality.We dont really believe in ourselves.Belief hard work,proper plan and luck brings success.Take Jim magunnies with Donegal he said the most important thing was belief.Before anyone says it yes he had good players but those same good players hadn't done anything in 5 years got a hammering or 2 in Ulster.He said we will win Ulster and a Sam in 4 years,he won Sam after 2 and three Ulsters.He designed a system that suited his players while not always easy on the eye it was effective.They bought into it and believed in it and themselves. The last 10 years maybe more its came into us ah sure what can you do we cant beat Dublin(fair enough I know they were unreal)and gave other teams hammering s but it soon started seeping down we cant beat Kerry then Galway,then1st division teams then 2nd and now 3rd.Its become acceptable now to be beaten and that attudie means you will get beaten.Some folk want us to go down to division 3 what happens if we start losing games there do we say let's go to divison 4.Its a losing mentality and that has to change.COR coming out and saying we deserve to be in the TC and Meath people have to get real we dont have a great team anymore, that to me while (honest maybe)is a negative attitude.Its his job to big the players up tell them they are good enough for division 1 not to be accepting scraping relegation to divisin 3.Im not been arrogant every team should aspire to be better not just accept were we are.Im not blaming it all on Colm not at all this has seeped into Meath over the last 10/15 ,years but unfortunately for him he is manager now.i really think looking at the mentality side is as important as coaching lads a system or how to shoot etc if not more than it.Get the attitude right and build from there.

Proudroyal (Meath) - Posts: 294 - 26/04/2023 15:44:27    2474046

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Replying To brian:  "Hmmm interestingly 12 months ago most on here said the same about one Andy Mcentee and you told us different…. Told us we were delusional

You've had the knife out for Colm from day one. At least own it.

And here's the big one, we remove O'Rourke who replaces him… there was no stellar cast of options available… Flynn and O'Rourke that's it… you wanted Eamonn Fitzmaurice… a fallacy to think he'd even be interested, same for any top quality manager… and to remove a Meath legend within a year… what outside manager that you're screaming for would take the job knowing that's what we'd do to our own…. They'd laugh at the county board for even approaching us

Meath are a laughing stock the country over, it's not O'Rourke or mcentee or O'Dowds fault…honest men, they've done what they could, players are declining, losing interest and moving on to further their lives.

The county board and executive are the root cause of things… plain and simple. They were Absent at the wheel 20 plus years ago when they laughed O'Rourke out of the room when he put a plan to maintain Meath at the top table.

Our ladies teams have been successful in spite of the county board and look what's happened since Eamonn Murray and a few ladies took some time for themselves. They've gone backwards, but theirs no photo ops for county board now, so they'll do nothing about it, the girls will struggle on and play for the enjoyment they can get out of it and be like the mens team in 6 years time back in the pack and we'll talk about the glory days of 21 and 22"
How do you make the judgement that the ladies have gone backwards? Because they lost a few games in the league? Games where they were largely without Emma Duggan and Vicki Wall their two best players, so I think it is best you reserve judgement on that at least until championship. One of your big criticisms of Andy was that he didn't have a settled free taker, this is exactly the same under this management team. Against Limerick Harry Hogan took a 45 and a minute later Jack Flynn took one. You're correct when saying Andy gave it his all, and look where it got us, division 1 for the first time in 10 years and back to back Leinster finals, granted the last year was a mess. This year we were incredibly lucky not to get relegated to division 3 and are now playing in the Tailteann cup. Meath are so easy to beat at the moment, because we have no structure and no plan on how to attack or defend, and that comes down to the management team, not the players.

contributingtoamelee (Meath) - Posts: 55 - 26/04/2023 15:57:20    2474052

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Replying To brian:  "Hmmm interestingly 12 months ago most on here said the same about one Andy Mcentee and you told us different…. Told us we were delusional

You've had the knife out for Colm from day one. At least own it.

And here's the big one, we remove O'Rourke who replaces him… there was no stellar cast of options available… Flynn and O'Rourke that's it… you wanted Eamonn Fitzmaurice… a fallacy to think he'd even be interested, same for any top quality manager… and to remove a Meath legend within a year… what outside manager that you're screaming for would take the job knowing that's what we'd do to our own…. They'd laugh at the county board for even approaching us

Meath are a laughing stock the country over, it's not O'Rourke or mcentee or O'Dowds fault…honest men, they've done what they could, players are declining, losing interest and moving on to further their lives.

The county board and executive are the root cause of things… plain and simple. They were Absent at the wheel 20 plus years ago when they laughed O'Rourke out of the room when he put a plan to maintain Meath at the top table.

Our ladies teams have been successful in spite of the county board and look what's happened since Eamonn Murray and a few ladies took some time for themselves. They've gone backwards, but theirs no photo ops for county board now, so they'll do nothing about it, the girls will struggle on and play for the enjoyment they can get out of it and be like the mens team in 6 years time back in the pack and we'll talk about the glory days of 21 and 22"
Find one post where I said mcentee should remain this year ? You can't cause there is none. We needed change after last year. But we went out of the frying pan and into the fire.
My problem with Colm's appointment in the beginning was I didn't believe he was up to intercounty management after his prior form with the 21s. That was problem one. Problem two however was that he would be stuck in pundit mode and his views of how football should be played which is totally out of sync with how it is played. Don't tell me there is not one person in or out of county that couldn't do better. Set up a team with a structure have some form of defensive system. , we haven't got the forwards to outscore many teams so less do as Donegal did and make us impossible to score against. Something anything. It's a lazy argument to say who next. If necessary me and you could join forces cause at this stage we wouldn't be much worse than what's there.

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 26/04/2023 16:05:18    2474055

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Replying To brian:  "Hmmm interestingly 12 months ago most on here said the same about one Andy Mcentee and you told us different…. Told us we were delusional

You've had the knife out for Colm from day one. At least own it.

And here's the big one, we remove O'Rourke who replaces him… there was no stellar cast of options available… Flynn and O'Rourke that's it… you wanted Eamonn Fitzmaurice… a fallacy to think he'd even be interested, same for any top quality manager… and to remove a Meath legend within a year… what outside manager that you're screaming for would take the job knowing that's what we'd do to our own…. They'd laugh at the county board for even approaching us

Meath are a laughing stock the country over, it's not O'Rourke or mcentee or O'Dowds fault…honest men, they've done what they could, players are declining, losing interest and moving on to further their lives.

The county board and executive are the root cause of things… plain and simple. They were Absent at the wheel 20 plus years ago when they laughed O'Rourke out of the room when he put a plan to maintain Meath at the top table.

Our ladies teams have been successful in spite of the county board and look what's happened since Eamonn Murray and a few ladies took some time for themselves. They've gone backwards, but theirs no photo ops for county board now, so they'll do nothing about it, the girls will struggle on and play for the enjoyment they can get out of it and be like the mens team in 6 years time back in the pack and we'll talk about the glory days of 21 and 22"
On your other points I am in total agreement. This years agm was a joke. Same people playing musical chairs for last 20 odd years. You won't get an argument from me on those points. Yes I did want Eamonn fitz I never denied that. He was interviewed and what happened at that interview we will probably never know , but when he showed interest to attend that then CB should have offered him 12 people dancing around hill of Tara to the gods, and all the gold and silver they could lay their hands on to get him (I obviously jest) but what did he look for that he didn't get ? 2 what did they not offer that would have made him join. ? As I said we will probably never know.
I suppose the obvious choice is obric , personally I would love to see Gillespie get involved even as a joint manager. Not too long out of the game A motivator, a driven young man who barring injury would have been meaths best player in decades, someone who knows the modern game and has done a very good job with summerhill. That though is personal preference. But at this stage I'd take anyone

royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 26/04/2023 16:15:32    2474059

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