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Few things (or points of clarification)…
1. It is not better to be in the Tailteann Cup than the Primary competition… for any reason
2. Do not tell me that "the players aren't there"! Character (players), coaching (management) and culture (all stakeholders) are collectively the problem
3. When tactics, playing style and general ability to play football fails - hunger, aggression and anger should typically become a default position FOR ANY PLAYER... it didn't yesterday
4. The distrust and absolute detest between supporters and committee members of the traditional clubs of Meath and the newer "Dublin border clubs" is shocking… and bears an uncanny resemblance to the two fractious political parties in the North of this Country
Solutions…
1. Lay the foundations - be defensively tough and hard to beat… then you can build your house
2. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts - match ability with character and let the players own the process
3. Grow up - there is no "them" in our own County. Imagine what could be achieved with a united club front - this, let me tell you is the root of all evils in this County and is eating us from within!
GenderNeutral (Meath) - Posts: 112 - 24/04/2023 13:51:41
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Replying To GenderNeutral: "Few things (or points of clarification)…
1. It is not better to be in the Tailteann Cup than the Primary competition… for any reason
2. Do not tell me that "the players aren't there"! Character (players), coaching (management) and culture (all stakeholders) are collectively the problem
3. When tactics, playing style and general ability to play football fails - hunger, aggression and anger should typically become a default position FOR ANY PLAYER... it didn't yesterday
4. The distrust and absolute detest between supporters and committee members of the traditional clubs of Meath and the newer "Dublin border clubs" is shocking… and bears an uncanny resemblance to the two fractious political parties in the North of this Country
Solutions…
1. Lay the foundations - be defensively tough and hard to beat… then you can build your house
2. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts - match ability with character and let the players own the process
3. Grow up - there is no "them" in our own County. Imagine what could be achieved with a united club front - this, let me tell you is the root of all evils in this County and is eating us from within!" The players aren't there
southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 891 - 24/04/2023 22:18:44
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Replying To GenderNeutral: "Few things (or points of clarification)…
1. It is not better to be in the Tailteann Cup than the Primary competition… for any reason
2. Do not tell me that "the players aren't there"! Character (players), coaching (management) and culture (all stakeholders) are collectively the problem
3. When tactics, playing style and general ability to play football fails - hunger, aggression and anger should typically become a default position FOR ANY PLAYER... it didn't yesterday
4. The distrust and absolute detest between supporters and committee members of the traditional clubs of Meath and the newer "Dublin border clubs" is shocking… and bears an uncanny resemblance to the two fractious political parties in the North of this Country
Solutions…
1. Lay the foundations - be defensively tough and hard to beat… then you can build your house
2. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts - match ability with character and let the players own the process
3. Grow up - there is no "them" in our own County. Imagine what could be achieved with a united club front - this, let me tell you is the root of all evils in this County and is eating us from within!" I agree. Jimmy McGuinness did it with Donegal with less resources. Went in with a 3 year plan. Made them hard to beat in year one and got organized, built confidence in players. I admit it was a hard watch but is the current football being played by Meath any better. It got results for Donegal.
Foley91 (Meath) - Posts: 418 - 25/04/2023 08:16:26
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Replying To GenderNeutral: "Few things (or points of clarification)…
1. It is not better to be in the Tailteann Cup than the Primary competition… for any reason
2. Do not tell me that "the players aren't there"! Character (players), coaching (management) and culture (all stakeholders) are collectively the problem
3. When tactics, playing style and general ability to play football fails - hunger, aggression and anger should typically become a default position FOR ANY PLAYER... it didn't yesterday
4. The distrust and absolute detest between supporters and committee members of the traditional clubs of Meath and the newer "Dublin border clubs" is shocking… and bears an uncanny resemblance to the two fractious political parties in the North of this Country
Solutions…
1. Lay the foundations - be defensively tough and hard to beat… then you can build your house
2. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts - match ability with character and let the players own the process
3. Grow up - there is no "them" in our own County. Imagine what could be achieved with a united club front - this, let me tell you is the root of all evils in this County and is eating us from within!" Oh dear lord. A sensible post on hs. What next ?
Joking aside I agree with you. First things first. We need a clean out at cb level, second thing is we need a new management team that is blatantly obvious to anyone. Colm was one of the greatest players to ever play the game that doesn't necessarily mean he will be a great manager, I think some of those blindly defending colm are letting their love of him as a player get in the way of the fact he is just not a inter county manager. Also the succession thing isn't working out. Obric should have been over 20s this year. We need some recently retired players in the set up not selectors but back room. I'm talking about Brian menton and graham Reilly types who have slogged with these guys and who know what they facing. As I say not directly involved but advisors. We also need a manager who will set us up as hard to beat and break down. The majority of our games this year the result was a foregone conclusion before halftime including on Sunday. The solution is simple. Build from the back. So Harry is now our number 1, of that I think there is little debate. McGill is our full back for next year end of story. Hopefully lavin can be enticed back and can get back up to speed. I'd keep O'Neil halfback line is a worry. When you have Colm bemoaning not having Shane mcentee as a excuse for Sunday we are in trouble. Remember many on here said he was only on the team cause of who his father was, now like mod before Andy colm wants Shane in halfbacks ,so much for their thoughts.
But honestly an aging Shane with back problems is not the answer and neither is an aging donal either no matter the fact he would grace any Meath team of the past 50 years. Midfield we need to keep what's there and may work out going forward. Half forwards is unfortunately a disaster and has been since the often maligned biggy left, he offered something that hasn't been created since then. And is sorely missed and hasn't been replaced YET , same in forwards since Newman we haven't had a marquee forward, walsh may become one but I'm worried about all the injuries These are some of the problems.
Colm could do a huge favour for the next management by introducing a lot of 20s and development squad for tailteann. Give hogan keoghan jones Costello etc a break. Use this as a blooding exercise. And we can have a look at who may be able to step in for what is the most crucial league Meath have ever been involved in. Remember our loss on Sunday has meant we lose our seeding for next year's Leinster meaning we could draw Dublin in quarters and end up back in this comp. Which none of us want. Let's be honest we not going to win this, we are at best going to semifinals. But we will have the likes of Offaly Limerick and probably cavan Down etc in it. All 4 are better coached than us at this stage. So blood players and leave next management a good idea for what is needed for the league.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 25/04/2023 09:46:36
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Replying To Foley91: "I agree. Jimmy McGuinness did it with Donegal with less resources. Went in with a 3 year plan. Made them hard to beat in year one and got organized, built confidence in players. I admit it was a hard watch but is the current football being played by Meath any better. It got results for Donegal." Yes but What mcguinness had was arguably one of the greatest full forwards in Murphey who provided a serious outlet for him to go to when on the break. We have nothing even remotely the same attacking wise.
Irish_downunder (Meath) - Posts: 631 - 25/04/2023 09:48:49
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Replying To Irish_downunder: "Yes but What mcguinness had was arguably one of the greatest full forwards in Murphey who provided a serious outlet for him to go to when on the break. We have nothing even remotely the same attacking wise." Exactly. People make out that Donegal team to be completely useless before he took over. They were in a very bad place spirit, togetherness and fitness wise, but they had brilliant footballers all over the field like, Paul Durcan, two McGees, Kevin Cassidy, Karl Lacey, Neil Gallagher, Rory Kavanagh, Mark McHugh, Paddy McBrearty, Michael Murphy and Colm McFadden. We don't have players near that quality currently.
BigJoe14 (Meath) - Posts: 935 - 25/04/2023 10:37:12
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Replying To Foley91: "I agree. Jimmy McGuinness did it with Donegal with less resources. Went in with a 3 year plan. Made them hard to beat in year one and got organized, built confidence in players. I admit it was a hard watch but is the current football being played by Meath any better. It got results for Donegal." The raw talent was there for Jim Mac to work with, some top class players. At present we have no such quality. Get Jim in, first thing he demands is a mim of 3 years, full backing from CB to do thing his way.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2151 - 25/04/2023 10:54:27
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Replying To GenderNeutral: "Few things (or points of clarification)…
1. It is not better to be in the Tailteann Cup than the Primary competition… for any reason
2. Do not tell me that "the players aren't there"! Character (players), coaching (management) and culture (all stakeholders) are collectively the problem
3. When tactics, playing style and general ability to play football fails - hunger, aggression and anger should typically become a default position FOR ANY PLAYER... it didn't yesterday
4. The distrust and absolute detest between supporters and committee members of the traditional clubs of Meath and the newer "Dublin border clubs" is shocking… and bears an uncanny resemblance to the two fractious political parties in the North of this Country
Solutions…
1. Lay the foundations - be defensively tough and hard to beat… then you can build your house
2. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts - match ability with character and let the players own the process
3. Grow up - there is no "them" in our own County. Imagine what could be achieved with a united club front - this, let me tell you is the root of all evils in this County and is eating us from within!" Waffle and clichés
Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 870 - 25/04/2023 11:23:46
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Replying To Blackspot09: "Waffle and clichés" Interesting… Clichés generally say it as it it but then… you can't teach those who can't be taught!
GenderNeutral (Meath) - Posts: 112 - 25/04/2023 13:36:52
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Replying To GenderNeutral: "Few things (or points of clarification)…
1. It is not better to be in the Tailteann Cup than the Primary competition… for any reason
2. Do not tell me that "the players aren't there"! Character (players), coaching (management) and culture (all stakeholders) are collectively the problem
3. When tactics, playing style and general ability to play football fails - hunger, aggression and anger should typically become a default position FOR ANY PLAYER... it didn't yesterday
4. The distrust and absolute detest between supporters and committee members of the traditional clubs of Meath and the newer "Dublin border clubs" is shocking… and bears an uncanny resemblance to the two fractious political parties in the North of this Country
Solutions…
1. Lay the foundations - be defensively tough and hard to beat… then you can build your house
2. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts - match ability with character and let the players own the process
3. Grow up - there is no "them" in our own County. Imagine what could be achieved with a united club front - this, let me tell you is the root of all evils in this County and is eating us from within!" Great post. I've been preaching for years here that only way forward is to embrace the Dubs coming into the county and bring them into the fold. Seems to be huge ignorance around. We need many of these people involved at county board level - time from brains and commercial expertise rather than same old from same old clubs and families.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1319 - 25/04/2023 14:18:39
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Looking in from the outside, to me it's clear that something isn't right in the Meath development squads. It may be the case that these issues have been resolved in recent years and that we are yet to see the results
11jm11 (Kildare) - Posts: 366 - 25/04/2023 14:24:47
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Replying To royaldunne: "Oh dear lord. A sensible post on hs. What next ?
Joking aside I agree with you. First things first. We need a clean out at cb level, second thing is we need a new management team that is blatantly obvious to anyone. Colm was one of the greatest players to ever play the game that doesn't necessarily mean he will be a great manager, I think some of those blindly defending colm are letting their love of him as a player get in the way of the fact he is just not a inter county manager. Also the succession thing isn't working out. Obric should have been over 20s this year. We need some recently retired players in the set up not selectors but back room. I'm talking about Brian menton and graham Reilly types who have slogged with these guys and who know what they facing. As I say not directly involved but advisors. We also need a manager who will set us up as hard to beat and break down. The majority of our games this year the result was a foregone conclusion before halftime including on Sunday. The solution is simple. Build from the back. So Harry is now our number 1, of that I think there is little debate. McGill is our full back for next year end of story. Hopefully lavin can be enticed back and can get back up to speed. I'd keep O'Neil halfback line is a worry. When you have Colm bemoaning not having Shane mcentee as a excuse for Sunday we are in trouble. Remember many on here said he was only on the team cause of who his father was, now like mod before Andy colm wants Shane in halfbacks ,so much for their thoughts.
But honestly an aging Shane with back problems is not the answer and neither is an aging donal either no matter the fact he would grace any Meath team of the past 50 years. Midfield we need to keep what's there and may work out going forward. Half forwards is unfortunately a disaster and has been since the often maligned biggy left, he offered something that hasn't been created since then. And is sorely missed and hasn't been replaced YET , same in forwards since Newman we haven't had a marquee forward, walsh may become one but I'm worried about all the injuries These are some of the problems.
Colm could do a huge favour for the next management by introducing a lot of 20s and development squad for tailteann. Give hogan keoghan jones Costello etc a break. Use this as a blooding exercise. And we can have a look at who may be able to step in for what is the most crucial league Meath have ever been involved in. Remember our loss on Sunday has meant we lose our seeding for next year's Leinster meaning we could draw Dublin in quarters and end up back in this comp. Which none of us want. Let's be honest we not going to win this, we are at best going to semifinals. But we will have the likes of Offaly Limerick and probably cavan Down etc in it. All 4 are better coached than us at this stage. So blood players and leave next management a good idea for what is needed for the league." Waffle backing up more waffle
southmeathgael (Meath) - Posts: 891 - 25/04/2023 14:32:17
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Replying To southmeathgael: "The players aren't there" The forwards definitely aren't but you can still go forward to right coaching, tactics and structure, especially one which regularly generates scoring chances for player in space to slot over from the 20. Dublin rarely shoot spectacular scores for example. Meath forwards seem to have no discipline of structure and take regular pot shots. Jim Gavin would haul you off for even one attempt like that.
Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1319 - 25/04/2023 14:34:45
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Replying To GenderNeutral: "Few things (or points of clarification)…
1. It is not better to be in the Tailteann Cup than the Primary competition… for any reason
2. Do not tell me that "the players aren't there"! Character (players), coaching (management) and culture (all stakeholders) are collectively the problem
3. When tactics, playing style and general ability to play football fails - hunger, aggression and anger should typically become a default position FOR ANY PLAYER... it didn't yesterday
4. The distrust and absolute detest between supporters and committee members of the traditional clubs of Meath and the newer "Dublin border clubs" is shocking… and bears an uncanny resemblance to the two fractious political parties in the North of this Country
Solutions…
1. Lay the foundations - be defensively tough and hard to beat… then you can build your house
2. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts - match ability with character and let the players own the process
3. Grow up - there is no "them" in our own County. Imagine what could be achieved with a united club front - this, let me tell you is the root of all evils in this County and is eating us from within!" Agree, the divide between north meath and dublin sided clubs in meath is created by north meath clubs. Cian ward goes on media outlets calling the other side clubs softies, yet clubs from that side win the champ over and over again so they can't be that soft.
Stuff like what cian ward did creates a big divide in meath.
rubia (Meath) - Posts: 26 - 25/04/2023 15:06:31
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Replying To GenderNeutral: "Few things (or points of clarification)…
1. It is not better to be in the Tailteann Cup than the Primary competition… for any reason
2. Do not tell me that "the players aren't there"! Character (players), coaching (management) and culture (all stakeholders) are collectively the problem
3. When tactics, playing style and general ability to play football fails - hunger, aggression and anger should typically become a default position FOR ANY PLAYER... it didn't yesterday
4. The distrust and absolute detest between supporters and committee members of the traditional clubs of Meath and the newer "Dublin border clubs" is shocking… and bears an uncanny resemblance to the two fractious political parties in the North of this Country
Solutions…
1. Lay the foundations - be defensively tough and hard to beat… then you can build your house
2. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts - match ability with character and let the players own the process
3. Grow up - there is no "them" in our own County. Imagine what could be achieved with a united club front - this, let me tell you is the root of all evils in this County and is eating us from within!" The first three points have been well covered at this stage, however the fourth if true ( no doubting you, know nothing about it) then we are in more trouble than I thought. No amount of reviews or change of management will fix that, its little wonder few if any were interested in the position. The CB are easy targets, but if this kind of childish behaviour is embedded in clubs, doing business must be very difficult. Whatever the hangups they need to be resolved asap if Meath GAA is to prosper.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2151 - 25/04/2023 16:52:39
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Replying To southmeathgael: "Waffle backing up more waffle" Ok Karen
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 25/04/2023 17:53:35
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Replying To 11jm11: "Looking in from the outside, to me it's clear that something isn't right in the Meath development squads. It may be the case that these issues have been resolved in recent years and that we are yet to see the results" The standard of players, especially forwards is in near constant decline for years. I didn't appreciate how good of forwards we had in say 2007 to 2010 at the time because I compared them to some of Boylans teams but the likes of Brian Farrell/ Joe Sheridan/ Cian Ward/ Shane O'Rourke had serious talent. What we had say 5/10 years ago in the likes Newman/ Reilly was not as good as 2007 to 2010 but would be great to have now. The graph of forward talent from Meath has went in one direction for nearly 2 decades.
bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1361 - 25/04/2023 23:40:14
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Replying To rubia: "Agree, the divide between north meath and dublin sided clubs in meath is created by north meath clubs. Cian ward goes on media outlets calling the other side clubs softies, yet clubs from that side win the champ over and over again so they can't be that soft.
Stuff like what cian ward did creates a big divide in meath." Yeah that was a very worrying contribution from somebody so prominent and generally of well considered opinions. Adds fuel to the fire and now looks like a foolish comment…that has been well circulated!
Also don't care much for Gordon Manning's piece in the Times laying the blame at the door of the clubs and giving all other stakeholders a free ride. It's a collective issue and Gordon and Cian should be key parts of the solution along with everybody else…rather than pointing out problems!
GenderNeutral (Meath) - Posts: 112 - 26/04/2023 07:57:03
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Meaths problem is more fundamental. Everywhere I read,"the players are not there". The question should be, WHY? We need to look at the structures in place, starting at the clubs. Player Pathways are there to develop the skills and the person. Unfortunately, most coaches won't/can't use them. Who are coaching the young players? Fathers? The parent who wants to make sure their child is at the centre of the team. I ask you to look at your club juvenile section. How many of the coaches are parents of the players in the team? Have a look at the county juvenile coaches! How many parents are there coaching there children? Look at other county backroom staff, very different set up. An audit of club and county coaching needs to be done ASAP. Then put a plan together to improve the standard of coaching. We also need to unite as a county. STOP this football v hurling. We are one county! Fix the Fundamentals!
TownJohnT (Meath) - Posts: 75 - 26/04/2023 10:30:25
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Replying To bdbuddah: "The standard of players, especially forwards is in near constant decline for years. I didn't appreciate how good of forwards we had in say 2007 to 2010 at the time because I compared them to some of Boylans teams but the likes of Brian Farrell/ Joe Sheridan/ Cian Ward/ Shane O'Rourke had serious talent. What we had say 5/10 years ago in the likes Newman/ Reilly was not as good as 2007 to 2010 but would be great to have now. The graph of forward talent from Meath has went in one direction for nearly 2 decades." Yes......development squads .......you have to wonder why are basic skills so poor still ? develop what and how ? how is the effectivness of a development squad measured...... Same goes for training sessions...Training what? To train in anything you must be able to identify the training need Gods knows the dogs in the street can see what the needs are looking at the senior team for the last few years . It seems training sessions do not assist with filling clearly indentified needs in on field performance..WHY? How are training sessions and their effectiveness measured ? Not rocket science but were taking about basic stuff here fielding ,kicking ,ball control, support play etc. etc. Thats why i say the top table need to come to the front and look at how things are done nowadays.Are we doing things now just because thats the way we always did them even in the Boylan era?
Its not about selection of players who plays and does not play.Great if it was that simple . The problem is much larger because of years of neglect or lack of vision from the top. Colm O Rourke is bearing the brunt of it now. He
is partly to blame of course for recurring mistakes not being dealt with on field play . To me what Colm is doing is trying to pull up weeds .He may be getting the bits that are overground and leaving the roots behind to come again. The roots are with the county board. They need the spade and shovel starting with proper audits of everything that impacts on standards on and off the field development squads, training sessions , Player welfare,succession planning, etc .etc. After that we might need a sweeping brush. Colm o Rourke or anyone else cant fix this on their own . The roots are the problem. Maybe the cb can surprise us by being pro active and looking at themselves to begin with looking at skillsets that exist at the top table and measure against current requirements. They should have no problem either in justifying development to improve their skillset to meet required demands for the role in the interests of Meath GAA.
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1228 - 26/04/2023 11:10:37
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