Meath Forum

Club Hurling Predictions

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Im not sure what guys want.
Best 4 teams are in semi , its a toss of a coin who wins from here.

Do people really want to put teams from group a in with wolf tones , bhg or athboy again?
Its much better than it was before , still no perfect but it never will be

Its fair to say there are some really poor teams in senior , 3 or 4 that could be in inter.
Also there is 3 or 4 in inter than should be junior.
But you will never get clubs to vote for that and it might set certain clubs back alot to put them down.

Dunboyne are not that far from trim as score suggests yesterday , playing in a group next year will improve them.
Killyon were also well in the game yesterday until sending off , but you cant hit lads in the face anymore so what do people expect?

hurlit (Meath) - Posts: 424 - 01/11/2021 10:31:28    2388042

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Replying To begining:  "Why are people on here calling for restructuring?

Nothing wrong with the current format. All games are competitive and the 4 best teams ended up in the semi finals. Who is out of the championship that can feel screwed over by the format?

It wasn't too long ago when the groups weren't seeded and there used to be some terrible hammerings, I remember Dunderry gave a walkover to Kiltale in a SHC match, unheard of.

A red card cost Kilyon yesterday, they definitely seemed to have kiltale rattled early on.

I tipped Dunboyne to beat Trim on here earlier in the week. I don't think the score line is a fair reflection of where they're at. Probably just one of those days.

Leave things as they are. 4 teams in the semis and I think there is going to be two epic games. 4 teams very evenly matched. All will feel there is a championship there for them."
I agree i think the format is fine as it is. longwood would normally be in the mix too as would killyon or kilmessian but they are just starting to get a bit long in the legs. Dunboyne yesterday though would have struggled against the better intermediate teams they were that poor.

Irish_downunder (Meath) - Posts: 640 - 01/11/2021 10:47:59    2388045

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Replying To begining:  "Why are people on here calling for restructuring?

Nothing wrong with the current format. All games are competitive and the 4 best teams ended up in the semi finals. Who is out of the championship that can feel screwed over by the format?

It wasn't too long ago when the groups weren't seeded and there used to be some terrible hammerings, I remember Dunderry gave a walkover to Kiltale in a SHC match, unheard of.

A red card cost Kilyon yesterday, they definitely seemed to have kiltale rattled early on.

I tipped Dunboyne to beat Trim on here earlier in the week. I don't think the score line is a fair reflection of where they're at. Probably just one of those days.

Leave things as they are. 4 teams in the semis and I think there is going to be two epic games. 4 teams very evenly matched. All will feel there is a championship there for them."
The games are competitive because the 6 strongest teams aren't playing any of the weaker sides until a QF, and then we get results like yesterday. There's no point in the weaker clubs playing each other year in year out and just getting a clipping in the quarters with the odd exception.
It's easy for everyone to see there is only 8/9 true senior clubs, with due respect to good clubs like CnaG and BHG, are they ever going to beat trim kiltale ratoath kildalkey? Or make a push for championship.
As long as this trend continues the semi finals will consist of trim na fianna kildalkey ratoath kiltale for the foreseeable future

tuppy23 (Meath) - Posts: 154 - 01/11/2021 10:50:48    2388047

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Would 4 groups with 3 teams in each group make more sense? Top two in each group into quarters open draw and bottom into relegation

The likes of Athboy, BHG and Longwood are only happy to stay senior by being in group A or winning 1/2 games in group B. Doing this would mean every game means a bit more in the group stages and it should make teams fight that bit more.

UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 403 - 01/11/2021 11:27:32    2388050

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Replying To tuppy23:  "The games are competitive because the 6 strongest teams aren't playing any of the weaker sides until a QF, and then we get results like yesterday. There's no point in the weaker clubs playing each other year in year out and just getting a clipping in the quarters with the odd exception.
It's easy for everyone to see there is only 8/9 true senior clubs, with due respect to good clubs like CnaG and BHG, are they ever going to beat trim kiltale ratoath kildalkey? Or make a push for championship.
As long as this trend continues the semi finals will consist of trim na fianna kildalkey ratoath kiltale for the foreseeable future"
What is your point here?

"As long as this trend continues" the 4 best teams will make it to the last 4? Is that not the point of having a championship? Do you think it would be better championship if 3 of Kiltale, Trim, Ratoath and Kildalkey were knocked out in earlier rounds?

The senior B has worked very well for a lot of clubs. Trim spent a few years in the B and blooded a lot of younger players, look at them now.

A lot of posters referencing Dunboynes performance yesterday. In the league they lost to trim by 1, had wins over kildalkey and Kilyon, lost narrowly to Kiltale too. I don't think they're 20 points worse than trim and I expect them to be very competitive in the senior A next year. Using yesterdays score line as a reason to reformat the championship would be silly.

begining (UK) - Posts: 311 - 01/11/2021 12:52:17    2388062

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Replying To UsernameInvalid:  "Would 4 groups with 3 teams in each group make more sense? Top two in each group into quarters open draw and bottom into relegation

The likes of Athboy, BHG and Longwood are only happy to stay senior by being in group A or winning 1/2 games in group B. Doing this would mean every game means a bit more in the group stages and it should make teams fight that bit more."
No it would be a back step. Its just a case of the clubs in Senior A take it far more seriously than the rest in terms of underage development and general approach to hurling. I know il be slated for stating that and the argument will be that they have large catchment areas but then teams should be looking to join up.

the hurling is in decent shape at present as na finna are coming good as are a few of the inter teams. I do think that a relegation style format like in the footbal should come into play for the bottom 3 teams in senior B and the runners up from inter with 2 staying down as its too much staleness in the B group.

Irish_downunder (Meath) - Posts: 640 - 01/11/2021 13:05:36    2388064

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I just want to comment on killyons red card yesterday.
It was a stone wall red card , the ball was 5 yards away from where the incident occurred both umpires and referee seen it. Swung the Hurley straight into jack regans face guard red card all day .
Killyon we're losing momentum at this stage anyway , the red card wasn't the winning or losing of this match because the result was always going to finish with a kiltale win.
Just kiltale weren't at the races for the first 15 minutes and that could be the winning and losing of a game.

Fair play to killyon tho they showed that kiltale are still weak in some parts of the field.

Joe_soap1 (Meath) - Posts: 83 - 01/11/2021 15:04:57    2388081

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Replying To begining:  "What is your point here?

"As long as this trend continues" the 4 best teams will make it to the last 4? Is that not the point of having a championship? Do you think it would be better championship if 3 of Kiltale, Trim, Ratoath and Kildalkey were knocked out in earlier rounds?

The senior B has worked very well for a lot of clubs. Trim spent a few years in the B and blooded a lot of younger players, look at them now.

A lot of posters referencing Dunboynes performance yesterday. In the league they lost to trim by 1, had wins over kildalkey and Kilyon, lost narrowly to Kiltale too. I don't think they're 20 points worse than trim and I expect them to be very competitive in the senior A next year. Using yesterdays score line as a reason to reformat the championship would be silly."
I don't think Trim are a great example for the success of the B group. They were in the SHC finals in 2014 and 2018, and SHC semi finals in 2015, 2016 and 2019.

It's a bit of a stretch to say that 2 years in the B group was the makings of them. They were in semi finals and finals before and are in semi finals and finals now.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1664 - 01/11/2021 15:18:05    2388082

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Don't think anybody is arguing that it wasn't a red card. The point being that the game then changed when Kiltale got the numerical advantage and the scoreboard then reflected that at the end. It amazes me how none of the umpires or lines men spotted the kiltale's fullbacks' behavior in the first half both on and of the ball.

Foley91 (Meath) - Posts: 418 - 01/11/2021 15:22:21    2388084

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Replying To CastleBravo:  "I don't think Trim are a great example for the success of the B group. They were in the SHC finals in 2014 and 2018, and SHC semi finals in 2015, 2016 and 2019.

It's a bit of a stretch to say that 2 years in the B group was the makings of them. They were in semi finals and finals before and are in semi finals and finals now."
How many of them semi-final and final appearances were via the B group? Definitely a couple.

Surely an example of the success a team can have via the B group.

begining (UK) - Posts: 311 - 01/11/2021 16:50:06    2388093

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Ah lads the whole hurling championship needs reforming all 4 quarters in both senior and intermediate where totally one sided imagine if any of the 4 bottom B division teams played any of the A division teams. None of the teams outside of the top 4/5 in A have any hope of winning a championship

Time to regrade to 8 senior 8 senior B and 8 intermediate

Brownepat (Meath) - Posts: 532 - 01/11/2021 18:18:10    2388105

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Replying To Brownepat:  "Ah lads the whole hurling championship needs reforming all 4 quarters in both senior and intermediate where totally one sided imagine if any of the 4 bottom B division teams played any of the A division teams. None of the teams outside of the top 4/5 in A have any hope of winning a championship

Time to regrade to 8 senior 8 senior B and 8 intermediate"
Makes sense really. 8 teams senior. 2 groups of 4. Top 2 in each group to semi final. Bottom 2 relegation playoff. Others QF

Kiltale, Kildalkey, Trim, Ratoath, Dunboyne, Killyon, Na Fianna, Longwood

8 teams senior B. 2 groups of 4 (9 below - one would feel hard done by to be intermediate)

Kilmessan, Clann na Gael, BHG, Wolfe Tones, Rathmolyon, Bmill, Dunderry, Drumree, NOM

fjones (Dublin) - Posts: 12 - 02/11/2021 10:43:24    2388132

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Replying To begining:  "How many of them semi-final and final appearances were via the B group? Definitely a couple.

Surely an example of the success a team can have via the B group."
My point is that Trim reached the final despite being in the B group, not because of it.

The idea that games vs. Navan and Dunderry are needed to lift a team to beat Kiltale and Kildalkey is just nonsense.

CastleBravo (Meath) - Posts: 1664 - 02/11/2021 11:02:36    2388135

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Replying To CastleBravo:  "My point is that Trim reached the final despite being in the B group, not because of it.

The idea that games vs. Navan and Dunderry are needed to lift a team to beat Kiltale and Kildalkey is just nonsense."
I was questioning if Trim would have qualified for the knockouts if they were in group A back in 2018/19? my guess is no. So being in group B benefited them, they brought through a lot of young players and improved as the year went on.. They lost to Longwood in group B in 2018 and still made the final.

Navan and Dunderry are struggling intermediate teams, way off the senior B teams. Not relevant to this argument.

begining (UK) - Posts: 311 - 02/11/2021 12:28:07    2388148

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Replying To fjones:  "Makes sense really. 8 teams senior. 2 groups of 4. Top 2 in each group to semi final. Bottom 2 relegation playoff. Others QF

Kiltale, Kildalkey, Trim, Ratoath, Dunboyne, Killyon, Na Fianna, Longwood

8 teams senior B. 2 groups of 4 (9 below - one would feel hard done by to be intermediate)

Kilmessan, Clann na Gael, BHG, Wolfe Tones, Rathmolyon, Bmill, Dunderry, Drumree, NOM"
Imo this is the only logical way forward, every team guaranteed atleast 4 games of championship which is all they get in the football.
No dead rubber games, every team will fancy beating everyone

tuppy23 (Meath) - Posts: 154 - 02/11/2021 13:29:58    2388156

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Westmeath have gone this way and now have only 6 Senior A teams in Hurling. The next 6 are Senior B. One club got serious beatings in A and will drop to B in 2022 re-organised and have a realistic chance of winning something.
Westmeath are similiar Hurling County to Meath some would and maybe correctly say that little bit better having play Leinster Senior a good bit more in recent years.
The idea that of the 20 or so Hurling Clubs in Meath 12 compete or try to compete in SHC is ridiculous, outdated and plain stupid

glenny (Meath) - Posts: 1115 - 03/11/2021 11:37:39    2388251

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Replying To glenny:  "Westmeath have gone this way and now have only 6 Senior A teams in Hurling. The next 6 are Senior B. One club got serious beatings in A and will drop to B in 2022 re-organised and have a realistic chance of winning something.
Westmeath are similiar Hurling County to Meath some would and maybe correctly say that little bit better having play Leinster Senior a good bit more in recent years.
The idea that of the 20 or so Hurling Clubs in Meath 12 compete or try to compete in SHC is ridiculous, outdated and plain stupid"
Like 34 counties competing for Sam Maguire or a provincial, archaic thought process that is outdated but counties don't want to be seen as anything but "Senior". A really good model put in place in Westmeath and could be mirrored here. Dunboyne replacing Longwood in Top 6 with them winning B this year leaves it with the 6 strongest senior teams at present. Top team in group goes to the final and second and third play a playoff for final spot. Every team gets a guaranteed 5 games to make it through, don't agree with a fourth place team making it through after maybe winning less than 50% of games. Surely better for Killyon, Longwood, Kilmessan and Clann na Gael to compete for a Senior B title or whatever you want to call it and let them then build and get promoted (those clubs know at the moment that they are not going to win a Jubilee even if they have the recent history of it). This thing of adding them into the quarters is not doing anything for the championship or them clubs as they end the year with no success or a trophy to aim for (I'm sure Killyon would prefer to be playing in a final than a "spirited performance" against Kiltale and year over). It also gives those clubs in Senior B a better chance of promotion to A, one bad performance or slip can be the end of their chances at it, again Killyon as an example where they should have bet Kilmessan and maybe Dunboyne this year but let two games where they dominated slip. It would have been a cracking semi final with Killyon and Kilmessan and then another cracker between one of them and Dunboyne in the final. But what would I know. On prediction front, Ratoath Kildalkey final and Kildalkey to win it, they just look like the best all round team this year and they will be sore over losing the semi last year and not putting back to back titles.

off_the_wall (Roscommon) - Posts: 71 - 03/11/2021 13:45:45    2388275

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not sure there is any solution that meets all the requirements, maybe the clubs should all get into one room and discuss

StickFan (Meath) - Posts: 217 - 04/11/2021 14:09:47    2388389

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Replying To off_the_wall:  "Like 34 counties competing for Sam Maguire or a provincial, archaic thought process that is outdated but counties don't want to be seen as anything but "Senior". A really good model put in place in Westmeath and could be mirrored here. Dunboyne replacing Longwood in Top 6 with them winning B this year leaves it with the 6 strongest senior teams at present. Top team in group goes to the final and second and third play a playoff for final spot. Every team gets a guaranteed 5 games to make it through, don't agree with a fourth place team making it through after maybe winning less than 50% of games. Surely better for Killyon, Longwood, Kilmessan and Clann na Gael to compete for a Senior B title or whatever you want to call it and let them then build and get promoted (those clubs know at the moment that they are not going to win a Jubilee even if they have the recent history of it). This thing of adding them into the quarters is not doing anything for the championship or them clubs as they end the year with no success or a trophy to aim for (I'm sure Killyon would prefer to be playing in a final than a "spirited performance" against Kiltale and year over). It also gives those clubs in Senior B a better chance of promotion to A, one bad performance or slip can be the end of their chances at it, again Killyon as an example where they should have bet Kilmessan and maybe Dunboyne this year but let two games where they dominated slip. It would have been a cracking semi final with Killyon and Kilmessan and then another cracker between one of them and Dunboyne in the final. But what would I know. On prediction front, Ratoath Kildalkey final and Kildalkey to win it, they just look like the best all round team this year and they will be sore over losing the semi last year and not putting back to back titles."
I don't like the idea of Senior A and Senior B, Senior B is basically a title to say you play Senior hurling, let's call it Intermediate as is. Part of why it took so long to change the football set up was due to teams wanting to be known as a senior club.

Would 8 teams be good enough work in Senior? I think the group of 6 can still lead to a couple of dead rubber games.
- Round 1 open draw. Winners go into round 2a and losers into round 2b
- Round 2a winners into semi final and losers into quarters
- Round 2b winners into quarters and losers gone.

Lose 1 game and your back is to the wall. The current structure isn't working, you can lose 2 potentially 3 games and if results go your way and still be in a quarter final. Doing this takes away the safety net.

Every team is guaranteed 2 games in championship and then look at extending the leagues to maybe 10 teams with 3/4 divisions to have the number of hurling games guaranteed at 11 before including cup matches or quarter and semi finals.

UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 403 - 04/11/2021 17:22:08    2388419

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Replying To UsernameInvalid:  "I don't like the idea of Senior A and Senior B, Senior B is basically a title to say you play Senior hurling, let's call it Intermediate as is. Part of why it took so long to change the football set up was due to teams wanting to be known as a senior club.

Would 8 teams be good enough work in Senior? I think the group of 6 can still lead to a couple of dead rubber games.
- Round 1 open draw. Winners go into round 2a and losers into round 2b
- Round 2a winners into semi final and losers into quarters
- Round 2b winners into quarters and losers gone.

Lose 1 game and your back is to the wall. The current structure isn't working, you can lose 2 potentially 3 games and if results go your way and still be in a quarter final. Doing this takes away the safety net.

Every team is guaranteed 2 games in championship and then look at extending the leagues to maybe 10 teams with 3/4 divisions to have the number of hurling games guaranteed at 11 before including cup matches or quarter and semi finals."
I agree here on Senior / Intermediate, ego is the only thing holding it back.

On the league,no one wants more league games I'd guess.5 league games and 5/6 champsionship is more than enough in a year if scheduled correctly.
League April - June and championship August to October
Shouldn't have anyone hurling November - March ,off seasons are good as they keep the appetite there and the opportunity to do other things - it keeps more players involved long term.

goosey (Meath) - Posts: 61 - 04/11/2021 19:29:20    2388429

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