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Replying To MadgeKing: "The last time we had those 5 on deck for a championship match we were bate by 16 points.
Don't get too carried away with who is missing, support who is there." And at least one of them had his flight already bought!
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 20/10/2020 13:45:00
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Replying To MadgeKing: "The last time we had those 5 on deck for a championship match we were bate by 16 points.
Don't get too carried away with who is missing, support who is there." I do support who is there madge, stop criticising me for saying stuff I didnt say. The comment put out there was that we have to stop saying we are in transition, my response is that we are always in transition as we are always bringing in huge numbers of new players to replace players who we have been developing for years and then walk away. We replace them with new players who are not at the pace or strength required and themselves need 2/3 years of hard training. And then they leave. And repeat.
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1483 - 20/10/2020 13:45:24
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Replying To fredflint: "I do support who is there madge, stop criticising me for saying stuff I didnt say. The comment put out there was that we have to stop saying we are in transition, my response is that we are always in transition as we are always bringing in huge numbers of new players to replace players who we have been developing for years and then walk away. We replace them with new players who are not at the pace or strength required and themselves need 2/3 years of hard training. And then they leave. And repeat." Yeah, there are plenty in here who are quick to run down our players but fred isn't one of those.
Look, most counties outside the top 5 or 6 have a high turnover of players. It's natural when a team isn't competitive at that top level that lads will lose interest or simply find they are unable to give the commitment required for the modern game.
Dublin, Mayo, Tyrone, Kerry and Donegal have pretty much been the top 5 in the country for 15 years. They've managed to keep their players together.
Monaghan have won a couple of provincial titles after a long period of mediocrity so thats kept their lads interested.
After that, all counties have had huge levels of turnover. Even Galway and Roscommon who won multiple connaught titles lose lads every year because they're miles off the top teams at all ireland level.
One major problem we had was that we got Terry's replacement wrong. We stagnated for 2 years at a point when the successful underage lads he brought through should've been in their prime.
It's not possible to get those 2 years back. Mickey made a good crack at it last year and may well do so this year if we beat Monaghan.
But after that, yes I'm afraid we ARE back into a rebuilding phase.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 20/10/2020 14:30:23
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Replying To fredflint: "I do support who is there madge, stop criticising me for saying stuff I didnt say. The comment put out there was that we have to stop saying we are in transition, my response is that we are always in transition as we are always bringing in huge numbers of new players to replace players who we have been developing for years and then walk away. We replace them with new players who are not at the pace or strength required and themselves need 2/3 years of hard training. And then they leave. And repeat." Comment wasn't directed at you Fred!
Anyway, my point is that while some lads love to bemoan those who have left or are unavailable, we haven't exactly set the world alight when they were around.
Last years crop of exiles are a good but not unique example of that. Put it this way, if they were all back on the panel would Donegal or Tyrone would be worrying about playing Cavan? I thought not.
Maybe part of the issue in the county is we are far too quick to label lads as 'great'. One or two big performances and suddenly in our heads the new lad transforms into the second coming of John Joe or Mick Higgins.
Only this time he is a 6ft5 super-athlete who can kick from 50 with both feet, benches 240 and blows out the bleep test. Internal media plays its part in this. I think it comes from a desperation to relive the glory days that none of us really remember. It inevitably ends in disappointment and recrimination so no wonder that good honest lads don't see the point. As a county we need to calm down and support those players courageous enough to stick at it. The Martin Reilly's of this world are the ones we need.
MadgeKing (Cavan) - Posts: 493 - 20/10/2020 15:11:33
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Replying To MadgeKing: "Comment wasn't directed at you Fred!
Anyway, my point is that while some lads love to bemoan those who have left or are unavailable, we haven't exactly set the world alight when they were around.
Last years crop of exiles are a good but not unique example of that. Put it this way, if they were all back on the panel would Donegal or Tyrone would be worrying about playing Cavan? I thought not.
Maybe part of the issue in the county is we are far too quick to label lads as 'great'. One or two big performances and suddenly in our heads the new lad transforms into the second coming of John Joe or Mick Higgins.
Only this time he is a 6ft5 super-athlete who can kick from 50 with both feet, benches 240 and blows out the bleep test. Internal media plays its part in this. I think it comes from a desperation to relive the glory days that none of us really remember. It inevitably ends in disappointment and recrimination so no wonder that good honest lads don't see the point. As a county we need to calm down and support those players courageous enough to stick at it. The Martin Reilly's of this world are the ones we need." Yes my sentiments as well but knocked regularly for saying so. Instant super stars from one good game.
A lot needs to be addressed I have to say both sides of the line. Good luck the week end to the lads for it's a game they have to get something from.
The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4601 - 20/10/2020 15:57:38
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Maybe we need to look at the training and conditions of why some players are not committing.
The 2 teams who got to the senior final this year had only 1 player playing on Sunday
Castlerahan who won 2 doubles in are row had one
Ramor one of the favourites for the championship had none
What we are doing is not working. We need to change to the get the best on the field.
When I talk to monaghan people they tell me they have their best players and the proof is they have won 2 ulster championship and compete at the business end of the all Ireland.
tom84 (Cavan) - Posts: 334 - 20/10/2020 19:41:02
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Replying To The Quiet Man: "Well my post I believe was spot on when I said 9 points might suffice. Well should Roscommon win they will have 11 points but the second team that will get promotion will more than likely have 9 points which I said might suffice. It's in Cavan hands to be safe in the league and be in the top 12 but if they lose it will look like they will not be part of the set up with the top twelve automatically for next year. I hear Cavan were unlucky well the chances cancelled themselves out to be honest. N Murray in the last minuet or so had no chance of getting a goal as he did not even get to hold the ball. Top scorer for Cavan center half but is he a center half. Once again kick outs dodgy despite the amount of times they practice it on the county pitch. "I know you can carry a free taker for if he continues to score like he did today he will be worth his weight in gold "
Jack O'Connor has a fine tuned team now and it showed today that he is a top manager for the game. Did anyone take note of the size and physique of the Kildare player's even G McKiernan looked small beside many of them. They are bulked up well why are the Cavan lads not in the same condition. Don't be saying they did not have the time off course they did. A couple of new faces they did well so thats a start for next year. That young McGovern lad if taken care off will be around for several years.
Just thinking about the keepers kick out's I know Galligan can kick the ball out 80 meters so I ask why the emphasis in keeping G McK in midfield when Gallingan kicks a long ball it will drive it over his head. Crosserlough had two lads in midfield I think Smith and Lynch I stand corrected and they lorded the middle of the field for long periods. Spread the kick outs don't be one dimensional, why does everything have to be short when Cavan have the players to catch the ball and make a mark. Come on it's not rocket science. I tell you what ? nest week Cavan should bring G McK forward seriously to the D and keep pumping balls into him. Players will feed off him and it might in fairness give G McK a break to express himself. Having him in the middle is all very well but everyone in the country knows what damage he can do given the space so will be man marked. Bringing him forward will give Cavan's midfield and half back line a chance to perform and express. It will also upset Roscommon's tactics. Bring in that Mc Govern lad from the start worth a try. I think Brady was wearing the wing half jersey 5 well he was a very lucky man to finish the game today. Like many of you I watched it on TG4.
Let's be bold experiment you Cavan might learn something for the Monaghan game as promotion is out of their hands. Win or lose next weekend." Niall Murray certainly had a chance of a goal. all he had to do was tip it over the advancing goalie's head. Not sure why some players think you always have to gather the ball when close to goal. Dublin would be cleverer than that. Just put your hand up and get something on it. Martin Reilly missed a penalty too which is very unlike Martin. It was a soft penalty anyway. Chris Conway scored some great frees.
s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5518 - 20/10/2020 22:37:46
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Replying To s goldrick: " Replying To The Quiet Man: "Well my post I believe was spot on when I said 9 points might suffice. Well should Roscommon win they will have 11 points but the second team that will get promotion will more than likely have 9 points which I said might suffice. It's in Cavan hands to be safe in the league and be in the top 12 but if they lose it will look like they will not be part of the set up with the top twelve automatically for next year. I hear Cavan were unlucky well the chances cancelled themselves out to be honest. N Murray in the last minuet or so had no chance of getting a goal as he did not even get to hold the ball. Top scorer for Cavan center half but is he a center half. Once again kick outs dodgy despite the amount of times they practice it on the county pitch. "I know you can carry a free taker for if he continues to score like he did today he will be worth his weight in gold "
Jack O'Connor has a fine tuned team now and it showed today that he is a top manager for the game. Did anyone take note of the size and physique of the Kildare player's even G McKiernan looked small beside many of them. They are bulked up well why are the Cavan lads not in the same condition. Don't be saying they did not have the time off course they did. A couple of new faces they did well so thats a start for next year. That young McGovern lad if taken care off will be around for several years.
Just thinking about the keepers kick out's I know Galligan can kick the ball out 80 meters so I ask why the emphasis in keeping G McK in midfield when Gallingan kicks a long ball it will drive it over his head. Crosserlough had two lads in midfield I think Smith and Lynch I stand corrected and they lorded the middle of the field for long periods. Spread the kick outs don't be one dimensional, why does everything have to be short when Cavan have the players to catch the ball and make a mark. Come on it's not rocket science. I tell you what ? nest week Cavan should bring G McK forward seriously to the D and keep pumping balls into him. Players will feed off him and it might in fairness give G McK a break to express himself. Having him in the middle is all very well but everyone in the country knows what damage he can do given the space so will be man marked. Bringing him forward will give Cavan's midfield and half back line a chance to perform and express. It will also upset Roscommon's tactics. Bring in that Mc Govern lad from the start worth a try. I think Brady was wearing the wing half jersey 5 well he was a very lucky man to finish the game today. Like many of you I watched it on TG4.
Let's be bold experiment you Cavan might learn something for the Monaghan game as promotion is out of their hands. Win or lose next weekend." Niall Murray certainly had a chance of a goal. all he had to do was tip it over the advancing goalie's head. Not sure why some players think you always have to gather the ball when close to goal. Dublin would be cleverer than that. Just put your hand up and get something on it. Martin Reilly missed a penalty too which is very unlike Martin. It was a soft penalty anyway. Chris Conway scored some great frees."
Situation next week end is a case of Cavan having to get a result for it would be hard to call that Fermanagh can beat Laois in fact rumor on the ground is Fermanagh cannot field a team so that being the case Laois will have 7 points. So huge match for the management to avoid bringing Cavan to Division 3. I hope that information is wrong.
By the S Goldrick Chris's name is Chris Conroy I expect a typo error
The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4601 - 21/10/2020 00:01:18
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Right, on to the Roscommon game. They have had our number for the best part of the last decade, but we bucked that trend in style last year.
We have to assume Laois will beat Fermanagh (or get a walkover) and approach this game accordingly. It's far more important for us than it is for Roscommon, especially if a tiered championship goes ahead next year.
We showed the good and the bad last week and it should be pretty obvious to Mickey where changes are required. I'd go with the following team:
R Galligan
J McLoughlin
P Faulkner
L Fortune
C Brady
K Clarke
G Smith
G McKiernan
J Smith (if available, otherwise B Magee)
M Reilly
C Conroy
O Kiernan
C McGovern
C Madden
C Smith
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5010 - 21/10/2020 11:21:13
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Replying To MadgeKing: "Comment wasn't directed at you Fred!
Anyway, my point is that while some lads love to bemoan those who have left or are unavailable, we haven't exactly set the world alight when they were around.
Last years crop of exiles are a good but not unique example of that. Put it this way, if they were all back on the panel would Donegal or Tyrone would be worrying about playing Cavan? I thought not.
Maybe part of the issue in the county is we are far too quick to label lads as 'great'. One or two big performances and suddenly in our heads the new lad transforms into the second coming of John Joe or Mick Higgins.
Only this time he is a 6ft5 super-athlete who can kick from 50 with both feet, benches 240 and blows out the bleep test. Internal media plays its part in this. I think it comes from a desperation to relive the glory days that none of us really remember. It inevitably ends in disappointment and recrimination so no wonder that good honest lads don't see the point. As a county we need to calm down and support those players courageous enough to stick at it. The Martin Reilly's of this world are the ones we need." No problem Madge
I agree about over stating new players.
the lads on wearecavan were blowing about the U17 team, and the great forward training they had etc. They produced the worst display of shooting I've seen in a long time against an average Monaghan team. On that game I saw two player max that would make a senior team in the future. Now they are young and maybe that is harsh, but if you listened to Paul and Damien you would think it was an unbelievable team we had. We definitely need to stop spoofing and building lads up before they've done anything as they will get an awful land when they do arrive in the senior football panel
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1483 - 21/10/2020 12:41:20
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Replying To fredflint: "No problem Madge
I agree about over stating new players.
the lads on wearecavan were blowing about the U17 team, and the great forward training they had etc. They produced the worst display of shooting I've seen in a long time against an average Monaghan team. On that game I saw two player max that would make a senior team in the future. Now they are young and maybe that is harsh, but if you listened to Paul and Damien you would think it was an unbelievable team we had. We definitely need to stop spoofing and building lads up before they've done anything as they will get an awful land when they do arrive in the senior football panel" Yes Fredflint listening to those two one would think we had super stars. Great to be at the game and listening to them I often wondered what game they were watching. Off course they are feeding there base which is the Cavan supporters
There are some good lad's out there it's just a matter of having the right people leading them.
The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4601 - 21/10/2020 15:01:34
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Replying To fredflint: "No problem Madge
I agree about over stating new players.
the lads on wearecavan were blowing about the U17 team, and the great forward training they had etc. They produced the worst display of shooting I've seen in a long time against an average Monaghan team. On that game I saw two player max that would make a senior team in the future. Now they are young and maybe that is harsh, but if you listened to Paul and Damien you would think it was an unbelievable team we had. We definitely need to stop spoofing and building lads up before they've done anything as they will get an awful land when they do arrive in the senior football panel" This just isn't true. They were both very clear on the point that the game was lost due to poor decision making and poor shooting. They rightly commended some of the young lads for having great games (which they did) and said they hoped they would come back stronger at U20 level. They are doing a podcast where they have to talk about the team, they're naturally going to point out good players or good things the players did.
Would you like them to tear strips off group of 16/17 year olds for poor shooting!? Those minors have worked extremely hard all year and you could see how gutted they were at the final whistle. They are kids for God's sake would you wise up.
As for calling Monaghan average, Monaghan have a brilliant structure at Minor level and are going for their third Ulster title in a row. They are certainly not average.
Inactive x5 (Cavan) - Posts: 1452 - 21/10/2020 16:40:38
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Cavan will be dealt a big boost to your chances later......
sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1143 - 21/10/2020 16:50:15
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Replying To JonSmith: "This just isn't true. They were both very clear on the point that the game was lost due to poor decision making and poor shooting. They rightly commended some of the young lads for having great games (which they did) and said they hoped they would come back stronger at U20 level. They are doing a podcast where they have to talk about the team, they're naturally going to point out good players or good things the players did.
Would you like them to tear strips off group of 16/17 year olds for poor shooting!? Those minors have worked extremely hard all year and you could see how gutted they were at the final whistle. They are kids for God's sake would you wise up.
As for calling Monaghan average, Monaghan have a brilliant structure at Minor level and are going for their third Ulster title in a row. They are certainly not average." Jon,
I was referring to their podcast before the game, not after. In that one everyone was brilliant etc. I would say stop doing in depth analysis of 16 year olds full stop. And Monaghan, on that display, were average. I dont care what their set up is or who they beat last year, they were nothing special and yet they won.
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1483 - 21/10/2020 19:27:17
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Replying To sourmilk93: "Cavan will be dealt a big boost to your chances later......" Now confirmed in The roscommon papers. Up to 13 of squad that travelled to Armagh last week now self isolating due to confirmed case. Be a depleted Ros side saturday
sourmilk93 (Roscommon) - Posts: 1143 - 21/10/2020 23:13:05
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Replying To fredflint: "Jon,
I was referring to their podcast before the game, not after. In that one everyone was brilliant etc. I would say stop doing in depth analysis of 16 year olds full stop. And Monaghan, on that display, were average. I dont care what their set up is or who they beat last year, they were nothing special and yet they won." Lads for the record that's a very young Monaghan minor team with only 1 of last years Ulster winning team. They have great potential but we wont see that come to fruition until next year.....hopefully ! The fact that Cavan lost by a point doesn't make your lads bad players.
Shelbourne1 (Monaghan) - Posts: 346 - 21/10/2020 23:18:26
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Going to be a very weakened Roscommon team for Saturday due to covid. Will be a big surprise if Cavan doesn't win with that situation.
ispeakwisdom (Roscommon) - Posts: 2487 - 22/10/2020 00:08:07
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Replying To Shelbourne1: "Lads for the record that's a very young Monaghan minor team with only 1 of last years Ulster winning team. They have great potential but we wont see that come to fruition until next year.....hopefully ! The fact that Cavan lost by a point doesn't make your lads bad players." I never said they were bad players. Just not the world beaters that they were made out to be. I only referenced Monaghan as we love nothing more in Cavan to talk about how we lost by a point to the eventual AI winners. I dont think, this year, Monaghan are near that level. So this was a poor result.
fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1483 - 22/10/2020 09:30:41
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Replying To ispeakwisdom: "Going to be a very weakened Roscommon team for Saturday due to covid. Will be a big surprise if Cavan doesn't win with that situation." Weakened Cavan team also, it seems that's how it's going to be for the foreseeable unfortunately, Cavan hit hard with COVID.
blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 881 - 22/10/2020 10:30:53
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Replying To blueman1903: "Weakened Cavan team also, it seems that's how it's going to be for the foreseeable unfortunately, Cavan hit hard with COVID." Of the 26 man panel that travelled to Armagh 13 players will be missing plus our manager and selectors. Cavan won't be missing anyone from the starting team in your narrow loss against Kildare plus you are boosted by the return of 5 players according to your manager.
ispeakwisdom (Roscommon) - Posts: 2487 - 22/10/2020 13:27:22
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