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Replying To aceofspades: "Replying To Inaroundehouse: "Bring back TH and let him finish us off properly.. there won't be a forward left in the County when when he finished with us!!"
one step forward two steps backwards comes to mind????
seanorinn (Cavan) - Posts:3513 - 18/07/2017
Can't understand all this sniping at TH as he probably done more for Cavan football in his 4 years than was done in the previous 10. He didn't bring us backwards as some would like to believe but actually brought us forwards to a place where he raised our expectations and we were going out against the Tyrones Donegals Monaghans of this era hoping to win rather than just to compete . OK some will point to the fact that he had a winning provincial 4 in a row U21 squads to pick from, but U21 success does not automatically equate to senior success just ask Cork or Galway supporters. He may have only won 3 games in the Ulster championship but in the preceding 11 years we had won a grand total of 4 . It was he who started the ball rolling at u21 level and he did afterall manage to get us from the brink of Division 4 to Division 1.Has any other Cavan manager (apart from McHugh) had any more success in the last 40 years?" Fully agree, I for one think he will be back to lead the charge again, a couple of years out looking in might give him insentive to get Cavan back to the top tier again.
blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 885 - 19/07/2017 14:08:29
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If people ignore the likes of indahouse he'll eventually disappear just like he did in his previous lives as deanmartin and awwwnow.
Skelling (USA) - Posts: 289 - 19/07/2017 14:30:06
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If we are going to compete with the big boys then we need someone a few levels higher than Terry or Mattie.
Competing is just not enough, we need to start winning.
No more experiments. Time to go for broke.
Of course lads will ask who is available and can we afford someone with the experience? We just have to otherwise it's remain as you are or even go backwards. It's up to the County Board to source a manager who has the experience and know-how to bring us on. I'm sure there's some ex-Kerry or Dublin All Ireland winner who would love to try his hand at management and who knows what it takes to win Sam because he has been there and done that.
Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 19/07/2017 15:21:41
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Replying To Cavan_Slasher: "If we are going to compete with the big boys then we need someone a few levels higher than Terry or Mattie.
Competing is just not enough, we need to start winning.
No more experiments. Time to go for broke.
Of course lads will ask who is available and can we afford someone with the experience? We just have to otherwise it's remain as you are or even go backwards. It's up to the County Board to source a manager who has the experience and know-how to bring us on. I'm sure there's some ex-Kerry or Dublin All Ireland winner who would love to try his hand at management and who knows what it takes to win Sam because he has been there and done that." Slasher, you seem to be asking for an experienced manager who knows how to win Sam but then seem to suggest an ex-Kerry or Dublin player.
Maybe I'm picking you up wrong, but are you suggesting that a former All-Ireland winning player is what is required to be Cavan's manager? Do you think the skills automatically transfer from being a successful player to being a successful manager?
Skelling (USA) - Posts: 289 - 19/07/2017 16:05:28
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Of course lads will ask who is available and can we afford someone with the experience? We just have to otherwise it's remain as you are or even go backwards. It's up to the County Board to source a manager who has the experience and know-how to bring us on. I'm sure there's some ex-Kerry or Dublin All Ireland winner who would love to try his hand at management and who knows what it takes to win Sam because he has been there and done that.
Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts:10212 - 19/07/2017
In the past we've been managed by All Ireland & Provincial winning managers and players with little success, maybe our problems don't stem from managers or players maybe they go a lot deeper, is it possible that we may have too many clubs and the quality in our senior leagues are being diluted? How is it we have 40 clubs competing in the senior league this year yet in minor we have 28 teams and in U16 we have 26 teams, at U14 level we have 34 teams with only 5 playing in Div 1 and in this division just over 50% of the games have being played with the remainder being conceded, as I say our problems may be a lot more deep rooted than we'd like to believe.
aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 257 - 19/07/2017 16:18:19
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Instead of Tom Smiths divisional teams why don't we only pick players who live within 30 minutes of breffni. Focus on them and scrap the rest. At least the manager will have an easier time watching these players and it brings in most of the big clubs anyway?
foxes_denn (Cavan) - Posts: 129 - 19/07/2017 16:42:50
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Replying To aceofspades: "Replying To Inaroundehouse: "Bring back TH and let him finish us off properly.. there won't be a forward left in the County when when he finished with us!!"
one step forward two steps backwards comes to mind????
seanorinn (Cavan) - Posts:3513 - 18/07/2017
Can't understand all this sniping at TH as he probably done more for Cavan football in his 4 years than was done in the previous 10. He didn't bring us backwards as some would like to believe but actually brought us forwards to a place where he raised our expectations and we were going out against the Tyrones Donegals Monaghans of this era hoping to win rather than just to compete . OK some will point to the fact that he had a winning provincial 4 in a row U21 squads to pick from, but U21 success does not automatically equate to senior success just ask Cork or Galway supporters. He may have only won 3 games in the Ulster championship but in the preceding 11 years we had won a grand total of 4 . It was he who started the ball rolling at u21 level and he did afterall manage to get us from the brink of Division 4 to Division 1.Has any other Cavan manager (apart from McHugh) had any more success in the last 40 years?" You would find if you knew your football that Fr Benny Maguire managed to get us to 2 Ulster finals in 76, 78. Also 2 national league quarter finals where we were playing Div 1 football only to lose one year to Dublin the All Ireland Champions.
Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 19/07/2017 16:43:37
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You would find if you knew your football that Fr Benny Maguire managed to get us to 2 Ulster finals in 76, 78. Also 2 national league quarter finals where we were playing Div 1 football only to lose one year to Dublin the All Ireland Champions.
Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts:172
I'm well aware of Fr Benny's achievements but unlike yourself I don't rate getting to finals or League quarter finals as success, you must have yourself when Terry got us to an All Ireland quarter final.
aceofspades (Cavan) - Posts: 257 - 19/07/2017 17:13:24
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Replying To foxes_denn: "Instead of Tom Smiths divisional teams why don't we only pick players who live within 30 minutes of breffni. Focus on them and scrap the rest. At least the manager will have an easier time watching these players and it brings in most of the big clubs anyway?" living within 30 mins of Breffni...that would mean fielding an entire Gaels team....wouldnt be an issue, and at least we might see a good brand of attacking football!
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 19/07/2017 17:14:44
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Celt2018....I think you hit the nail on the head...the problem with Cavan Football has not just occurred in the last year, 5 years or 10 years. Its been ongoing for the last 40 odd years.
We are producing some good footballers, but not off the quality that other teams are producing, so we need to go back to grass roots. Is it the coaching, is it that there's too many clubs? but one thing for sure is that the club scene is very broke and needs to be fixed. We need competitive ACFL football every week, we need our senior players playing regularly with their clubs. I stand corrected, but many of the panel that didn't get a run out in this years championship went 4/5 weeks without playing a competitive game with their clubs.
Its a very sad state of affairs, and its only getting worse. All the top teams are miles ahead of us, and not it seems that a lot of the 2nd tier teams are out in front too.
cavanblueman (Cavan) - Posts: 636 - 19/07/2017 17:24:08
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Replying To aceofspades: "You would find if you knew your football that Fr Benny Maguire managed to get us to 2 Ulster finals in 76, 78. Also 2 national league quarter finals where we were playing Div 1 football only to lose one year to Dublin the All Ireland Champions.
Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts:172
I'm well aware of Fr Benny's achievements but unlike yourself I don't rate getting to finals or League quarter finals as success, you must have yourself when Terry got us to an All Ireland quarter final." It's nice to get to the Ulster Final now and again. Even to beat a half decent team in Ulster wouldn't be so bad.
My point is we played Div 1 football long before or former manager was playing junior B.
Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 19/07/2017 17:57:28
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Replying To aceofspades: "You would find if you knew your football that Fr Benny Maguire managed to get us to 2 Ulster finals in 76, 78. Also 2 national league quarter finals where we were playing Div 1 football only to lose one year to Dublin the All Ireland Champions.
Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts:172
I'm well aware of Fr Benny's achievements but unlike yourself I don't rate getting to finals or League quarter finals as success, you must have yourself when Terry got us to an All Ireland quarter final." Amazing we won 3 Ulster championship games in Hylands time!
Great manager let's get him back!
Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 19/07/2017 19:04:25
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Replying To cavanblueman: "living within 30 mins of Breffni...that would mean fielding an entire Gaels team....wouldnt be an issue, and at least we might see a good brand of attacking football!" I doubt he meant walking!
I'd say all but 3 or 4 clubs are within 30mins of Breffni
The point seems to be referencing those working and living in Dublin.
cavanman47 (Cavan) - Posts: 5193 - 19/07/2017 20:19:40
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Replying To Skelling: "Slasher, you seem to be asking for an experienced manager who knows how to win Sam but then seem to suggest an ex-Kerry or Dublin player.
Maybe I'm picking you up wrong, but are you suggesting that a former All-Ireland winning player is what is required to be Cavan's manager? Do you think the skills automatically transfer from being a successful player to being a successful manager?" No the skills don't always pass to management.
However a winner has a better chance than someone who has achieved nothing at all. He knows what it takes. Whether he can deliver or not nobody knows but i'd rather have a winner over us than someone who has achieved little or nothing.
Cavan_Slasher (Cavan) - Posts: 10253 - 19/07/2017 21:11:22
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Replying To Cavan_Slasher: "No the skills don't always pass to management.
However a winner has a better chance than someone who has achieved nothing at all. He knows what it takes. Whether he can deliver or not nobody knows but i'd rather have a winner over us than someone who has achieved little or nothing." Winners or top class players usually make terrible managers because they can't cope with players not meeting their standards. Management is completely different and they need to be good facilitators and surround themselves with the necessary skills.
doratheexplorer (Cavan) - Posts: 1467 - 19/07/2017 22:31:34
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Replying To Cavan_Slasher: "No the skills don't always pass to management.
However a winner has a better chance than someone who has achieved nothing at all. He knows what it takes. Whether he can deliver or not nobody knows but i'd rather have a winner over us than someone who has achieved little or nothing." I would make it of little priority when hiring a manager. If you look at soccer as an example, and I don't see a reason not to compare the two, managers that have had very ordinary playing careers often excel.
My view would be experience of having managed an intercounty team that played above what was expected of them. An average manager could be successful with a great team whilst an excellent manager could take a modest team just short of glory. It's the latter type that often get missed.
Skelling (USA) - Posts: 289 - 19/07/2017 22:33:55
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Replying To Cavan_Slasher: "No the skills don't always pass to management.
However a winner has a better chance than someone who has achieved nothing at all. He knows what it takes. Whether he can deliver or not nobody knows but i'd rather have a winner over us than someone who has achieved little or nothing." I would make it of little priority when hiring a manager. If you look at soccer as an example, and I don't see a reason not to compare the two, managers that have had very ordinary playing careers often excel.
My view would be experience of having managed an intercounty team that played above what was expected of them. An average manager could be successful with a great team whilst an excellent manager could take a modest team just short of glory. It's the latter type that often get missed.
Skelling (USA) - Posts: 289 - 19/07/2017 22:33:55
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Would agree that Successful players don't necessarily make good managers. Am thinking of the likes of jack o Connor in a county like Kerry full of all Ireland winners & he has been the most successful manager for them at minor & senior level since micko with no playing record of note
bond (Longford) - Posts: 174 - 19/07/2017 23:32:23
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Replying To doratheexplorer: "Winners or top class players usually make terrible managers because they can't cope with players not meeting their standards. Management is completely different and they need to be good facilitators and surround themselves with the necessary skills." Would you be including people like . Brian Cody, Jim Galvin, Eamon Fitzmaurice, Mick O Dwyer, Paudie O Shea, Davy Fitz, JB Murphy,Eamon Cregan,T Hanahoe, JimMc Guinness, Brian McEnifg, GerLoughnane,Pat Gilroy,Liam Sheedy, , to name but a few who won All Ireland's as aManager or other top class players like Martin McHugh,Charlie Mulgrew,JamesMcCartan,Kieran McGeeney,Kevin Walsh,who also wonAll irelandsand brought mediocre counties to a higher level.
Who are you talking about?
Or do you know yourself?
Inaroundehouse (Cavan) - Posts: 975 - 20/07/2017 05:15:55
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I think that we are moving down the wrong road yet again with talking about potential new managers. Mattie has a contract and will 100% be managing Cavan next year and rightly so. He deserves his chance and a point I keep making is - we didnt exactly have a long queue for the managers position. We picked the best man for the job based on the applicants, I believe.
McStay at Roscommon is a very interesting one. 3 months ago, they were in a very bad place. Relegated as bottom team in division one, a couple of players had left the panel and not much optimism for the championship. But McStay & McHale galvanised them and now look. People say that they only really had to beat Leitrim & Galway but they were massive underdogs nonetheless. So what can Cavan take from that? How can we replicate that sort of turnaround? It shows that anything is possible. Carlow, Down and Kildare have given everyone a glimmer of hope albeit all 3 were comfortably beaten by the big guns as expected. But they can see some progress and look on this season as an improvment and something to build on! Its not even over yet for Down and Kildare.
McGleenan can only work with what he has. So he deserves the chance to try to alter the mindset of our players and develop them. He was/is the best man for the job according to our recruitment process so we have to give him next year anyway.
Reformation (Cavan) - Posts: 356 - 20/07/2017 08:17:03
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