Cavan Forum

Tyrone v Cavan Ulster Semi Final Replay

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Replying To celt2018:  "Cavan 21s who beat Tyrone in 2011 and 2012 on senior panel:A O Mara,Gearoid McKiernan,Fergal Flanagan,Niall Murray,Jack Brady,Niall McDermott,Killian Brady,Killian Clarke,Conor Moynagh,Jason McLoughlin,Chris Conroy plus Ml Argue,Gerard Smith, Dara McAveety,Liam Buchanan in 2013 plus Givney and McEnroe from 2010 u21s who lost to Donegal.Thats at least 16 u21s from 2010-2014.Other 21s who were but are not now on senior panel are Barry Reilly,Joe Dillon,Declan McKiernan,Conor Gilsenan,Turlough Mooney,Niall Smith,Kevin Tierney,Kevin Meehan,Damien Barkey,Packie Leddy.Thats 27 u21sfrom 2010-2014.
The Tyrone players who were involved in the the u21s in 11 and 12 and also playing for Tyrone seniors now are Niall Morgan,Ronan McNamee,Niall Sludden,Richard Donnelly,Peter Harte,Ronan O'Neill,Barry Tierney,Tiernan McCann,Darren McCurry,Conor McAliskey. The M Donnelly in Tyrone u21 lineout is Mark Donnelly,not Mattie i think.Tyrone appear to have 9 starters from u21s plus the 4 very experienced lads plus Mattie Donnelly.Going on last Sunday,they appear to have progressed further than us in terms of intensity,system of play,conditioning. What have they done that we have'nt."
Good factual post but we never did set up a spine of the team in those 4 years . I know Dunnes injury hasn't helped at full back but I felt after playing Clarke there for 8 league and 1 championship it was very criminal to move him for the Tyrone game . Actually the whole full back line changed for one reason or another . We are olso making the same mistakes like carrying the ball into the tackle time and time again . There doesn't seem to be any learning done . Every man wants to attack and have a pop forgetting about his main job which is to defend at pace if deciding to attack. Thes is no need for Rory Dunne to solo up the sideline 70 metres from his own goal. Moynagh the same. How do you think Peter Harte got through? Because we were wide open. Carbon copy of league final back in April. So what has been learened in 3 months? Nothing. Players seem to be playing to instruction. Hence the always looking to the sideline for guidence

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 06/07/2016 14:48:34    1877349

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Replying To Awwwwnow:  "Good factual post but we never did set up a spine of the team in those 4 years . I know Dunnes injury hasn't helped at full back but I felt after playing Clarke there for 8 league and 1 championship it was very criminal to move him for the Tyrone game . Actually the whole full back line changed for one reason or another . We are olso making the same mistakes like carrying the ball into the tackle time and time again . There doesn't seem to be any learning done . Every man wants to attack and have a pop forgetting about his main job which is to defend at pace if deciding to attack. Thes is no need for Rory Dunne to solo up the sideline 70 metres from his own goal. Moynagh the same. How do you think Peter Harte got through? Because we were wide open. Carbon copy of league final back in April. So what has been learened in 3 months? Nothing. Players seem to be playing to instruction. Hence the always looking to the sideline for guidence"
True, regarding the spine. Tyrone have as many as 11/12 guaranteed starters in same position for every championship game.Mickey Harte and Tyrone were able to use a lot of players outside of championship and test them properly in league with the idea that if you cant perform in league then you wont perform in championship, bye and large they are settled and it has taken Mickey two + years to get to here.The full back line of McCarron,McNamee and McRory are fixtures as are Tiernan McCann and Ronan McNabb at half back when both fit as is Donnelly and Kavanagh in midfield.The forward line will contain Sean Kavanagh and Peter Harte plus two out of McCurry,O Neill and McAliskey if not the three.They know their team and players know their system through repeat,repeat,repeat in training and from league matches.It never changes very much.We need to settle the team and stick to a system balanced between attack and defence which is repeated throughout the McKenna cup and the league and perfected at training week in week out with the aid of detailed video analysis.I fear we will revert to complete defence in division 1,hope not.

celt2018 (Cavan) - Posts: 160 - 06/07/2016 16:20:54    1877430

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Replying To celt2018:  "True, regarding the spine. Tyrone have as many as 11/12 guaranteed starters in same position for every championship game.Mickey Harte and Tyrone were able to use a lot of players outside of championship and test them properly in league with the idea that if you cant perform in league then you wont perform in championship, bye and large they are settled and it has taken Mickey two + years to get to here.The full back line of McCarron,McNamee and McRory are fixtures as are Tiernan McCann and Ronan McNabb at half back when both fit as is Donnelly and Kavanagh in midfield.The forward line will contain Sean Kavanagh and Peter Harte plus two out of McCurry,O Neill and McAliskey if not the three.They know their team and players know their system through repeat,repeat,repeat in training and from league matches.It never changes very much.We need to settle the team and stick to a system balanced between attack and defence which is repeated throughout the McKenna cup and the league and perfected at training week in week out with the aid of detailed video analysis.I fear we will revert to complete defence in division 1,hope not."
Well we got a chance to steady the ship against Carlow. Hopefully some constructive switches can be made. It's not about winning by a cricket score. Improvement in shooting has to be expected as we should get more time on the ball against a div 4 side. I'd like to see us playing an expansive game using the full width of the pitch . I believe that's our way forward coming from the sides rather than trying to get down the middle. I believe we have the speedy half backs and corner forwards to play that type of game . Stretch teams.. Teams like Tyrone love you coming up the middle

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 06/07/2016 17:38:26    1877509

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Replying To seanorinn:  "Sean o Rinn we had 5 chances to beat Tyrone . So who does the buck stop with? Watch an ageing Donegal team beat Tyrone in the Ulster final . They won't need 5 chances. I'm not here to slag off the management , that's an easy thing to do after yesterday's result. Terry needs to realise he needs experienced help( and I'm not talking anyone within the county) he needs A winner to help him . There no experience in that management group to change the system during the game or at half time .
Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts:465 - 04/07/2016 13:07:56

Do you really think Donegal will beat Tyrone I don't think so.
Tyrone are on a mission and thats to win the Anglo Celt cup and Sam and I think they have the ammunition to go all the way. I have a gut feeling this is Micky's last year and he wants to go out in glory. He will win the Anglo Celt thats for sure and I feel if they lose Sam it will be because they got complacent. Micky brought two new players into the game it shows the quality of the man and his vision of quality. "
I wouldn't write off Donegal. They wont leave the defence open like we or Derry did. As the Sunday game highlighted Tiernan McCann, Peter Harte and Mattie Donnelly are key to their counter attack. Just because we couldn't read this threat and nullify it doesn't mean top tier teams wont.

cavan97 (Cavan) - Posts: 369 - 07/07/2016 10:14:04    1877733

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Replying To seanorinn: "Sean o Rinn we had 5 chances to beat Tyrone . So who does the buck stop with? Watch an ageing Donegal team beat Tyrone in the Ulster final . They won't need 5 chances. I'm not here to slag off the management , that's an easy thing to do after yesterday's result. Terry needs to realise he needs experienced help( and I'm not talking anyone within the county) he needs A winner to help him . There no experience in that management group to change the system during the game or at half time .
Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts:465 - 04/07/2016 13:07:56

I was at this match and there were not 5 more chances at any stage but when blinkered you miss this.
I like to watch a match as a neutral and I saw no extra chances in a dire game.
Donegal will not beat Tyrone thats my opinion as a neutral and should they continue to play as they can they will once again be there at the business end of things.
Their standard in Ulster is second to none.
Getting back to Cavan V Carlow I hope management and player's don't take this game like the Waterford match many years ago. ???? Carlow may be bad but they are there to play and will give it their best shot.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4601 - 07/07/2016 16:47:27    1878028

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It's a simple as this.
Ulster is gone and that was our target this year.
Let's be realistic we are not All Ireland winning material.
Qualifiers will only prolong the agony.
Only thing it can be good for now is giving a few fringe players a run.

StirringIt (Cavan) - Posts: 374 - 07/07/2016 16:59:13    1878040

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Donegal will take that Tyrone team no bother. McBrearty and the mc Hugh's and mc Neilis won't miss what we missed that's for sure. Tyrone won't run through Frank Mc Glynn and Lacy or the McGees like they ran through us . There is so much hype about this Tyrone team is unbelievable . They will be made look very ordinary before the year is out. Mark my words.

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 07/07/2016 18:29:06    1878088

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Replying To StirringIt:  "It's a simple as this.
Ulster is gone and that was our target this year.
Let's be realistic we are not All Ireland winning material.
Qualifiers will only prolong the agony.
Only thing it can be good for now is giving a few fringe players a run."
Stirring it , would it not be good for gaining valuable experience going on a run in the qualifiers and maybe playing a big team or 2 in croker, everyone was saying you experience playing in crokepark before you can win big games there, you won't get it sitting at home,I know we wont win the ai but only 1 team will and most likely Dublin, but if everyone gives up what's the point of it all just give them Sam in April save a lot of trouble.

blueman1903 (Cavan) - Posts: 885 - 07/07/2016 18:34:23    1878090

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Replying To Awwwwnow:  "Donegal will take that Tyrone team no bother. McBrearty and the mc Hugh's and mc Neilis won't miss what we missed that's for sure. Tyrone won't run through Frank Mc Glynn and Lacy or the McGees like they ran through us . There is so much hype about this Tyrone team is unbelievable . They will be made look very ordinary before the year is out. Mark my words."
Donegal will take that Tyrone team no bother. McBrearty and the mc Hugh's and mc Neilis won't miss what we missed that's for sure. Tyrone won't run through Frank Mc Glynn and Lacy or the McGees like they ran through us . There is so much hype about this Tyrone team is unbelievable . They will be made look very ordinary before the year is out. Mark my words.

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts:472 - 07/07/2016 18:29:06 1878088

Well my prediction is Tyrone to win by 4 plus and I believe the back door is an utter waste of time that gives counties a false sense of importance.
What will cavan learn from Saturday's game against a division 4 team nothing is my opinion.
Play your second 15 and they will beat Carlow and this is not showing disrespect to Carlow.
Getting experience well what better than playing most of the top teams in Division 1 next February onwards. Best experience and only way to improve.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4601 - 07/07/2016 20:02:48    1878127

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Replying To fredflint:  "Terry is too much of a gentleman to air his dirty laundry with a stranger like me. I'll be very interested to see how starts next Saturday."
No golf for Seanie this weekend it seems Fredflint. Have you any more rumours to start? How do you get your posts past the mods??

Awwwwnow (Cavan) - Posts: 1050 - 07/07/2016 22:18:29    1878212

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Replying To Awwwwnow:  "Good factual post but we never did set up a spine of the team in those 4 years . I know Dunnes injury hasn't helped at full back but I felt after playing Clarke there for 8 league and 1 championship it was very criminal to move him for the Tyrone game . Actually the whole full back line changed for one reason or another . We are olso making the same mistakes like carrying the ball into the tackle time and time again . There doesn't seem to be any learning done . Every man wants to attack and have a pop forgetting about his main job which is to defend at pace if deciding to attack. Thes is no need for Rory Dunne to solo up the sideline 70 metres from his own goal. Moynagh the same. How do you think Peter Harte got through? Because we were wide open. Carbon copy of league final back in April. So what has been learened in 3 months? Nothing. Players seem to be playing to instruction. Hence the always looking to the sideline for guidence"
Agree completely with you. Watched the game again, had it recorded from BBC. Game was over as a contest when two first half goals went in.
Half time was a chance to regroup and make tactical changes, didn't work. We were ripped asunder. Peter Harte made even more of an impact ; easy for him as he wasn't picked up. Too many up looking to get a score and unable to track back in time then . I hope lessons will be learned. Unfortunately I don't think so as have just seen team for Saturday.

Cluichepeil (Cavan) - Posts: 57 - 08/07/2016 08:45:47    1878296

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Had to laugh at some of the head lines.
"Terry rings changes after Tyrone defeat"
He made four changes, one because of injury and two in defence for obvious reasons and the other to give Martin Reilly a well deserved rest as he's been our best player all season.
Nothing shocking there.

desagov (Cavan) - Posts: 209 - 08/07/2016 09:22:26    1878306

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"Rings the Changes" Whoever wrote that knows little or nothing.It is practically the same again.No doubt about it though Terry is very loyal to Killian the gunner and Fergal Flano.Killian Clarke,from full back to full forward to midfield to half forward,he'll soon be in goals at this rate.

celt2018 (Cavan) - Posts: 160 - 08/07/2016 16:35:35    1878573

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Replying To celt2018:  ""Rings the Changes" Whoever wrote that knows little or nothing.It is practically the same again.No doubt about it though Terry is very loyal to Killian the gunner and Fergal Flano.Killian Clarke,from full back to full forward to midfield to half forward,he'll soon be in goals at this rate."
Good one ! Very true ! Tomorrow game isn't an attractive fixture for supporters, probably be a poor turn out. I know I keep harping on but why can't the club fixtures go ahead, surely game time would benefit the fringe players and boost them , I hear morale isn't great inside. Some players talking about walking . Any of the panel going away for the Summer ?

Cluichepeil (Cavan) - Posts: 57 - 08/07/2016 19:29:14    1878645

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