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Replying To LeitrimRoyal99: "Yes in two ways. Firstly 17/18 year olds cut their teeth at a proper championship and not a premier competition. I'll give you a few examples of current/very recent Meath players. Seamus Lavin played a full year of Junior A for Dunboyne in 2013. As a minor marked Mickey Newman in a semi final who was Meath's top scorer that year. You don't think that benefited him? Take Liam Kelly for Ratoath, he will be Meath under 20's full back next year probably and he'll have barely played any club championship. If Ratoath were in Junior A playing proper championship football that would be a far better education for him. Jack Flynn won a Junior B championship with Ratoath in 2019 and that catapulted him onto the Meath 20's in 2020 having never been a Meath minor. If he was playing a premier competition there's a good chance that wouldn't have happened. And as other posters previously said a few strong second teams not only improves 2nd team players but it means junior teams have to be better too so the overall competition is better. It's the same reason I would be in favour of cutting senior from 16 teams to 10/12 even though this year it would have meant my club getting relegated. But this attitude of 2nd team footballers can never help Meath football. With minor at under 17 there's absolutely loads of county minors going into adult football and not being good enough for senior. They used to play with experienced veteran senior players in hard championship games against first teams at junior A, Junior B and in the case of Dunboyne and Don/Ash at the time inter. Now they play a nonsense competition that is basically under 21's without your best players, nobody cares about it. And then we wonder why our standards drop off a mile from under 17 - under 20. The regional and post minor development panel have been good steps, but even off the 2021 all Ireland minor winners I can think of 5 players who could have benefited from second teams being in Junior A and not premier" Excellent post and excellent points made. In every walk of life there are some that will use loopholes for their benefit but the majority of the big populated clubs don't bother trying to stack their second teams anymore as there enough players to fill both and give lads proper game time. My own club won Premier 1 his year and only the seniors were playing afterwards I doubt many would have even known it was on. Clubs do their best to advertise but even the county bard don't seem pushed with it and just want to get it run off to tick a box.
ratlag (Meath) - Posts: 557 - 02/10/2023 17:04:55
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It seems that the only clubs complaining about not having 2nd teams in championship proper,are the big populated clubs,and in that there is a touch of arrogance,the new system isn't working Being spouted, well the old one was an absolute shambles, as previously said,the 2nd teams dramatically changed during the competition,making the whole thing a farce,imagine dublin having 2 or 3 teams in the all ireland, they would probably be the top 3 teams,but to think that would be allowed is laughable, its no different at club level, its ridiculous actually,in the long term maybe there needs to be more clubs in these towns to cater for the growing population
Utdroyal (Meath) - Posts: 61 - 02/10/2023 19:16:19
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Replying To Utdroyal: "It seems that the only clubs complaining about not having 2nd teams in championship proper,are the big populated clubs,and in that there is a touch of arrogance,the new system isn't working Being spouted, well the old one was an absolute shambles, as previously said,the 2nd teams dramatically changed during the competition,making the whole thing a farce,imagine dublin having 2 or 3 teams in the all ireland, they would probably be the top 3 teams,but to think that would be allowed is laughable, its no different at club level, its ridiculous actually,in the long term maybe there needs to be more clubs in these towns to cater for the growing population" Translation: The only clubs complaining about the Premier Championships are the clubs competing in them, because every single player playing in the Premier Championships will tell you they don't work and the level of interest in them is below zero, nothing to do with big clubs or arrogance, its wanting to keep as many young lads interested and playing football i the county in order to try and raise the standards.
ratlag (Meath) - Posts: 557 - 03/10/2023 09:17:34
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Replying To Utdroyal: "It seems that the only clubs complaining about not having 2nd teams in championship proper,are the big populated clubs,and in that there is a touch of arrogance,the new system isn't working Being spouted, well the old one was an absolute shambles, as previously said,the 2nd teams dramatically changed during the competition,making the whole thing a farce,imagine dublin having 2 or 3 teams in the all ireland, they would probably be the top 3 teams,but to think that would be allowed is laughable, its no different at club level, its ridiculous actually,in the long term maybe there needs to be more clubs in these towns to cater for the growing population" But yet we see the "old" system to be used in hurling and Kildalkey allowed to play in Senior, Intermediate and junior. Why isn't there a premier in hurling I would ask? I would suggest that if Kildalkey weren't allowed in Intermediate and junior that there would be less people hurling in that area. It is a small area and it would have hurt them participation wise so the issue then that bigger urban clubs face is even more acute and we see the importance of it from a participation point of view. Is anyone complaining about Kildalkey? No - in fact everyone is admiring them and giving them deserved credit. I would agree with the previous poster, putting all second teams into the same group solved what was a genuine issue.
seasiderblues (Meath) - Posts: 343 - 03/10/2023 09:39:27
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Replying To LeitrimRoyal99: "Yes in two ways. Firstly 17/18 year olds cut their teeth at a proper championship and not a premier competition. I'll give you a few examples of current/very recent Meath players. Seamus Lavin played a full year of Junior A for Dunboyne in 2013. As a minor marked Mickey Newman in a semi final who was Meath's top scorer that year. You don't think that benefited him? Take Liam Kelly for Ratoath, he will be Meath under 20's full back next year probably and he'll have barely played any club championship. If Ratoath were in Junior A playing proper championship football that would be a far better education for him. Jack Flynn won a Junior B championship with Ratoath in 2019 and that catapulted him onto the Meath 20's in 2020 having never been a Meath minor. If he was playing a premier competition there's a good chance that wouldn't have happened. And as other posters previously said a few strong second teams not only improves 2nd team players but it means junior teams have to be better too so the overall competition is better. It's the same reason I would be in favour of cutting senior from 16 teams to 10/12 even though this year it would have meant my club getting relegated. But this attitude of 2nd team footballers can never help Meath football. With minor at under 17 there's absolutely loads of county minors going into adult football and not being good enough for senior. They used to play with experienced veteran senior players in hard championship games against first teams at junior A, Junior B and in the case of Dunboyne and Don/Ash at the time inter. Now they play a nonsense competition that is basically under 21's without your best players, nobody cares about it. And then we wonder why our standards drop off a mile from under 17 - under 20. The regional and post minor development panel have been good steps, but even off the 2021 all Ireland minor winners I can think of 5 players who could have benefited from second teams being in Junior A and not premier" Very interesting post and please don't take that if I disagree as a cut at you or a slight on your club.
Ratoath are a fantastic club and we are all only focused on our own issues, that's the GAA for you, but these two examples are as far removed from normality as there is. Young Liam Kelly, the man so many of us are hoping to grow into the Meath no 3 jersey, has played senior this year and would be on every other senior club team in Meath. Ratoath are on a different level, have a management setup to rival a county team, huge resources behind the team, and a track record for sacking championship winning managers at the end of the season. Again, in what other club would Jack Flynn be playing JFC B?
Do we rebrand Premier 1 as SFC B perhaps?
I was at a few Premier finals this year and there were great crowds at them, the car park nearly full at the back of Pairc Tailteann and plenty of colour. If nobody in Rataoth knew or cared about being in the Premier 1 final, that's an issue for the club.
And again, that's a challenge for the Dublin commuter clubs to develop community engagement. The support Ratoath have at senior finals is not great, the Ashbourne crowd at the semi-final was tiny, similar for their minor final appearance last year compared to a huge Seneschalstown crowd.
As mentioned before, there is no one fit solution for clubs.
And I have a soft spot for Ratoath, I remember games up there in the 90's, just the community ground in the middle of the village with the soccer pitch beside it. Ryans Pub, the shop and a few house, feck all else and not much of a team either. What a transformation. Lost a JFC final to a Kells second team. I disagreed with second teams in the JFC then, still do now.
Roger (Meath) - Posts: 471 - 03/10/2023 10:07:42
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Replying To Roger: "Very interesting post and please don't take that if I disagree as a cut at you or a slight on your club.
Ratoath are a fantastic club and we are all only focused on our own issues, that's the GAA for you, but these two examples are as far removed from normality as there is. Young Liam Kelly, the man so many of us are hoping to grow into the Meath no 3 jersey, has played senior this year and would be on every other senior club team in Meath. Ratoath are on a different level, have a management setup to rival a county team, huge resources behind the team, and a track record for sacking championship winning managers at the end of the season. Again, in what other club would Jack Flynn be playing JFC B?
Do we rebrand Premier 1 as SFC B perhaps?
I was at a few Premier finals this year and there were great crowds at them, the car park nearly full at the back of Pairc Tailteann and plenty of colour. If nobody in Rataoth knew or cared about being in the Premier 1 final, that's an issue for the club.
And again, that's a challenge for the Dublin commuter clubs to develop community engagement. The support Ratoath have at senior finals is not great, the Ashbourne crowd at the semi-final was tiny, similar for their minor final appearance last year compared to a huge Seneschalstown crowd.
As mentioned before, there is no one fit solution for clubs.
And I have a soft spot for Ratoath, I remember games up there in the 90's, just the community ground in the middle of the village with the soccer pitch beside it. Ryans Pub, the shop and a few house, feck all else and not much of a team either. What a transformation. Lost a JFC final to a Kells second team. I disagreed with second teams in the JFC then, still do now." I think you are missing his point. Jack Flynn played his first year at adult football at Junior B level (second team) as he simply wasn't ready for first team football. That year in a competitive and meaningful championship did him the world of good and now he has developed into a proper senior intercounty footballer. Your comment about the sacking of managers is just stupid, all 3 championship winning managers left for their own reasons (personal, after a second season in charge and work).
Its my post you're referring to about 'nobody cared' and if that's how it came across I apologize, but my point was that nobody was interested because as a competition it is not promoted or highlighted n the same way the junior competitions are (media days, interviews with captains/players).
As you said, if you never liked second teams in these comps then you never will and that's fair, we're all allowed our opinions on these things, but that aside it doesn't take away from the fact that these competitions are not working as a player development platform and are not cared about at all from a county board level. These are thoughts of not only myself, but a number of posters on here and every player that I have spoken t from various clubs, who both play in them and play for their clubs first teams as well.
ratlag (Meath) - Posts: 557 - 03/10/2023 11:11:35
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Replying To ratlag: "I think you are missing his point. Jack Flynn played his first year at adult football at Junior B level (second team) as he simply wasn't ready for first team football. That year in a competitive and meaningful championship did him the world of good and now he has developed into a proper senior intercounty footballer. Your comment about the sacking of managers is just stupid, all 3 championship winning managers left for their own reasons (personal, after a second season in charge and work).
Its my post you're referring to about 'nobody cared' and if that's how it came across I apologize, but my point was that nobody was interested because as a competition it is not promoted or highlighted n the same way the junior competitions are (media days, interviews with captains/players).
As you said, if you never liked second teams in these comps then you never will and that's fair, we're all allowed our opinions on these things, but that aside it doesn't take away from the fact that these competitions are not working as a player development platform and are not cared about at all from a county board level. These are thoughts of not only myself, but a number of posters on here and every player that I have spoken t from various clubs, who both play in them and play for their clubs first teams as well." I respect that you know what is happening in Ratoath much more than me. From the outside, I would say my point about Liam Kelly applies to Jack Flynn as well. An absolute top class footballer, I would argue that in any club other than Ratoath he would have been playing first team football in 2019. He was playing for Meath in the NFL 18-months later in 2021 as well as being a key man for the county U20s. There were not many footballers of Jack Flynn's ability playing JFC B in 2019, it was an outlier. He was a top class footballer already.
You are not happy with the Premier setup, which is far from perfect for sure. Second teams in the first team championships is not going to be passed by clubs, so what solution should the football committee come up with?
Roger (Meath) - Posts: 471 - 03/10/2023 12:31:06
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Replying To Roger: "I respect that you know what is happening in Ratoath much more than me. From the outside, I would say my point about Liam Kelly applies to Jack Flynn as well. An absolute top class footballer, I would argue that in any club other than Ratoath he would have been playing first team football in 2019. He was playing for Meath in the NFL 18-months later in 2021 as well as being a key man for the county U20s. There were not many footballers of Jack Flynn's ability playing JFC B in 2019, it was an outlier. He was a top class footballer already.
You are not happy with the Premier setup, which is far from perfect for sure. Second teams in the first team championships is not going to be passed by clubs, so what solution should the football committee come up with?" And here in lies the million dollar question!! I agree that there is no perfect solution. For me however, the best one is allowing clubs second teams into the junior and Inter championships (piling all into the one group to avoid lopsided teams playing against first teams in the early rounds) and therefore exposing all of a clubs talented footballers to a decent level of football and in turn, raising the quality of a competition (The 4 premier 1 semi final teams had players every bit as good and some better than those playin junior A for some clubs and for them to improve they need to be playing as high a standard as possible in my opinion). Keeping 3rd teams in a separate Premier championship may work as 3rd teams are generally made up of players that just enjoy a game of ball but aren't committed to a full on slog of training etc.
I do know that this won't be passed for reasons previously mentioned by multiple posters but I do feel it is the best scenario for the county as a whole, rather than what is there at the minute.
ratlag (Meath) - Posts: 557 - 03/10/2023 13:02:23
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Replying To Roger: "I respect that you know what is happening in Ratoath much more than me. From the outside, I would say my point about Liam Kelly applies to Jack Flynn as well. An absolute top class footballer, I would argue that in any club other than Ratoath he would have been playing first team football in 2019. He was playing for Meath in the NFL 18-months later in 2021 as well as being a key man for the county U20s. There were not many footballers of Jack Flynn's ability playing JFC B in 2019, it was an outlier. He was a top class footballer already.
You are not happy with the Premier setup, which is far from perfect for sure. Second teams in the first team championships is not going to be passed by clubs, so what solution should the football committee come up with?" You have to ask yourself why will second teams playing in "first team competitions not work "
It does in many other counties
I what other competition does a team who wins not get to progress to higher level
That is the very reason you compete
To try to push to the highest level you can
I've said before and nobody has an argument against
The only reason is because the junior clubs do not want to be beaten by second teams , simple as that
It's definitely small minded and holding back development in our county
Awaywin (Meath) - Posts: 100 - 03/10/2023 13:12:39
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Replying To ratlag: "And here in lies the million dollar question!! I agree that there is no perfect solution. For me however, the best one is allowing clubs second teams into the junior and Inter championships (piling all into the one group to avoid lopsided teams playing against first teams in the early rounds) and therefore exposing all of a clubs talented footballers to a decent level of football and in turn, raising the quality of a competition (The 4 premier 1 semi final teams had players every bit as good and some better than those playin junior A for some clubs and for them to improve they need to be playing as high a standard as possible in my opinion). Keeping 3rd teams in a separate Premier championship may work as 3rd teams are generally made up of players that just enjoy a game of ball but aren't committed to a full on slog of training etc.
I do know that this won't be passed for reasons previously mentioned by multiple posters but I do feel it is the best scenario for the county as a whole, rather than what is there at the minute." As you said, that is not a runner so we have to think outside the box.
The Premier for the first half of the year as a Cup and then league with groups of eight and seven league rounds, is probably fit for purpose. It's when the championship comes around that the problem starts I am guessing, as some want second teams in the A championship which commences in August.
How about a Senior B championship involving second teams of senior clubs, running exactly in the same format as the A championships. Three or four groups of 4, three rounds and then knockouts, with the final played on A finals weekends. The name alone would give it merit and it would get good coverage.
I definitely agree there are some players in the Premier (for the big clubs) as good as players in the JFC, but the teams are not as strong anymore IMO. Since the restructure of the championships with 16 senior and 16 intermediate, compared to 18 senior and 20 intermediate prior to 2019, the JFC is way stronger with the jFC B now on a par with the standard of JFC before 2019.
Roger (Meath) - Posts: 471 - 03/10/2023 14:42:15
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Replying To Awaywin: "You have to ask yourself why will second teams playing in "first team competitions not work "
It does in many other counties
I what other competition does a team who wins not get to progress to higher level
That is the very reason you compete
To try to push to the highest level you can
I've said before and nobody has an argument against
The only reason is because the junior clubs do not want to be beaten by second teams , simple as that
It's definitely small minded and holding back development in our county" Some counties allow second teams in the A championship, just as many don't. Those counties that don't believe what the majority of clubs in Meath do. That's not 'small minded', it's a valid opinion which some might not agree with.
Absolutely agree with the principle that 'the reason you compete is to try to push on to the highest level you can'. For lads playing second team football, their real desire is to make the first team, that's the highest level they can achieve.
A second team can win a championship composed of former legends and a mix of youth. The following year the old lads have retired and a lot of the young lads move up to the first team, that's usually what happens. Progress isn't moving up the grades as that 'team' doesn't exist anymore, it was just a collection of players in one particular year.
Progression for a club is a very different thing, that's the crucial point.
Roger (Meath) - Posts: 471 - 03/10/2023 14:50:10
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On second teams playing in 1 junior group ' therefore exposing all of a clubs talented footballers to a decent level of football'.
But that is 4 teams only, playing against second teams anyway?
But if it is a media and profile issue about premier, surely that can be sorted.
On the question raised, what other counties separate out first and second team championships? That is a more interesting question. I don't know the answer
I think this might a small issue made into a big one. As I said above if handled by CB right. In other words treat second team players with respect across the board, with venues, PR and proper fixture scheduling, it could easily be solved. Premier 3 format down should be scrapped, full stop. I think overall it has been handled very poorly.
If they don't want to do that, I agree second teams should go back into junior.
Goldback (Meath) - Posts: 54 - 03/10/2023 14:52:31
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Replying To Blackspot09: "You are wrong.
There were very few if any walkovers in the junior football championship while the 2nd teams were in it. This has absolutely nothing to do with them not being in it anymore. Nor has them fielding strong teams at the start and weak teams at the end because as you rightly pointed all the 2nd teams were grouped together in the last few years in JC which made sense and alleviated the issue of one junior first team playing a strong 2nd team in round 1 and 1 junior first team playing a weak 2nd team in round 4 or 5.
Also to use the 2nd teams participation in the A leagues as an example of how having 2nd teams in first team comps isn't working because they are giving walkovers is totally disingenuous. Why did they give walkovers ? Because the CB fixed league games for clubs first teams and 2nd teams on the same night at the same time . When the restructuring was happening clubs were assured that wouldn't happen. To my knowledge anytime the games were fixed on different days there were no walkovers given.
There are a couple of reasons the 2nd teams were removed from the first team championships and neither of them are because it was for the greater good of Meath football.
1. The decision makers and people in power wanted to restructure the championships particularly the senior championship and Intermediate championships . To do this they needed the votes of the Junior clubs and Intermediate clubs who had been junior or were hovering around the bottom of intermediate . To secure their votes they needed to offer them an incentive . The incentive was the removal of all 2nd teams from first team championships .
2. Clubs voted for the restructuring because it would give their club a better chance of winning the Junior Championship with the removal of strong 2nd teams like Dunboyne Ashbourne Cilles Ratoath Dunshaughlin etc . Nothing to do with anything else only looking after their own patch. This is a fact that plenty of people in junior clubs that I know have confirmed to me.
What we are left with is a Premier comp which has never worked and is pretty much dead already and only a few years in and a junior A championship which is easier to win than a few years back when there was 3 or 4 strong 2nd teams in.
A less competitive Junior A championship is no good for Meath football and only good for the teams who might struggle if there was stronger teams in it.
In fact in this years Junior A final we have a team who didn't even have to win Junior B to get out of it. They were promoted by the stroke of a pen. Great club who have put in serious work underage in the past decade or so and I have no doubt they would have got where they want to go anyway but it is still a fact that they were a Junior B club who didn't have to win Junior B to get out of it.
The current format at Junior level and below is not good for Meath football." Explain why the current format at junior and below its not good for Meath football. Not to many Junior footballers playing intercounty...Half of the senior clubs would struggle at senior 2 in other county's. How can a senior club play for over 60 minutes and only score 1 point?....this is where I would start my analysis.
199710 (Meath) - Posts: 120 - 03/10/2023 15:20:44
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Replying To Roger: "As you said, that is not a runner so we have to think outside the box.
The Premier for the first half of the year as a Cup and then league with groups of eight and seven league rounds, is probably fit for purpose. It's when the championship comes around that the problem starts I am guessing, as some want second teams in the A championship which commences in August.
How about a Senior B championship involving second teams of senior clubs, running exactly in the same format as the A championships. Three or four groups of 4, three rounds and then knockouts, with the final played on A finals weekends. The name alone would give it merit and it would get good coverage.
I definitely agree there are some players in the Premier (for the big clubs) as good as players in the JFC, but the teams are not as strong anymore IMO. Since the restructure of the championships with 16 senior and 16 intermediate, compared to 18 senior and 20 intermediate prior to 2019, the JFC is way stronger with the jFC B now on a par with the standard of JFC before 2019." This does happen though. The Premier championships and the Senior/Inter/Junior started the same weekend, Premier was two groups of 4 with the top 2 into semi finals and ended up being played the same weekend as the senior and inter semi's.
Second teams compete in the A leagues against first teams and this actually means more to players as they are playing against better opposition (or can aspire to as they can move up the divisions). Avoiding walkovers is easy by simply playing a clubs second team the day after their first team, this will also stop clubs stacking second teams with first team players and lads won't play 2 games in 2 days and risk injuries.
ratlag (Meath) - Posts: 557 - 03/10/2023 15:28:18
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Replying To ratlag: "This does happen though. The Premier championships and the Senior/Inter/Junior started the same weekend, Premier was two groups of 4 with the top 2 into semi finals and ended up being played the same weekend as the senior and inter semi's.
Second teams compete in the A leagues against first teams and this actually means more to players as they are playing against better opposition (or can aspire to as they can move up the divisions). Avoiding walkovers is easy by simply playing a clubs second team the day after their first team, this will also stop clubs stacking second teams with first team players and lads won't play 2 games in 2 days and risk injuries." The league is excellent, with clubs happy to field without their county men at adult and U20, even junior clubs. All bar a couple of second teams are at the lowest level there. St Ultan's who could well be relegated from junior , finished well ahead of most senior second teams.
Championship is the issue for second teams, promotion is one of people's issues so rebranding and real support would change that.
Referees are a major issue. Minor football is Monday, U15 Wednesday, minor hurling Thursday and U13 Friday. Adult is Tuesday or Thursday (limited capacity). Very hard to squeeze back to back games into the schedule.
Roger (Meath) - Posts: 471 - 03/10/2023 16:00:56
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Replying To Roger: "The league is excellent, with clubs happy to field without their county men at adult and U20, even junior clubs. All bar a couple of second teams are at the lowest level there. St Ultan's who could well be relegated from junior , finished well ahead of most senior second teams.
Championship is the issue for second teams, promotion is one of people's issues so rebranding and real support would change that.
Referees are a major issue. Minor football is Monday, U15 Wednesday, minor hurling Thursday and U13 Friday. Adult is Tuesday or Thursday (limited capacity). Very hard to squeeze back to back games into the schedule." You have spent many post on here telling us why premier is working
You have not given any reason why second teams should NOT be in junior
What was the problem when they were???
Awaywin (Meath) - Posts: 100 - 03/10/2023 22:27:30
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Replying To Awaywin: "You have spent many post on here telling us why premier is working
You have not given any reason why second teams should NOT be in junior
What was the problem when they were???" Because it might make it harder for a mediocre junior team to win it if they come u against a decent 2nd team in the knockouts. It's all about clubs looking after their own patch.
The Junior championship was better and more competitive with the 2nd teams in it and after the changes they made the last few years with all 2nd teams in one group it was perfectly fair as there was no first teams coming up v a 2nd team stacked with senior players in the early rounds.
Blackspot09 (Meath) - Posts: 870 - 04/10/2023 10:06:38
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Replying To Awaywin: "You have spent many post on here telling us why premier is working
You have not given any reason why second teams should NOT be in junior
What was the problem when they were???" I gave the reasons in my first post on this topic if you had looked at it.
Roger (Meath) - Posts: 471 - 04/10/2023 11:38:31
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Replying To ratlag: "This does happen though. The Premier championships and the Senior/Inter/Junior started the same weekend, Premier was two groups of 4 with the top 2 into semi finals and ended up being played the same weekend as the senior and inter semi's.
Second teams compete in the A leagues against first teams and this actually means more to players as they are playing against better opposition (or can aspire to as they can move up the divisions). Avoiding walkovers is easy by simply playing a clubs second team the day after their first team, this will also stop clubs stacking second teams with first team players and lads won't play 2 games in 2 days and risk injuries." Even better,play at the exact same time
Utdroyal (Meath) - Posts: 61 - 05/10/2023 10:39:01
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Leagues should be division 1-12. No more than 10 teams and played every second week on Thursday/Friday/Saturday/Sunday and alternate it with the hurling which has leagues of 8.
Championship should be Senior down to Junior D. Groups no bigger than 4. Quarter finals, Semi Finals and finals. Same for hurling.
Between league (18) and championship (12) that's 30 weeks of games. 12 guaranteed football games, 10 guaranteed hurling matches. Start it on the second weekend in March and it will be finished by the second weekend in October.
If a club enters 3 teams then they should provide 3 refs. If they can't then they should have to pay a fine which goes towards the training and payment of new refs.
UsernameInvalid (Meath) - Posts: 355 - 06/10/2023 13:24:08
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