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Should he stay if we win Leinster?. Yes or No.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 05/05/2022 20:32:49 2415146 Link 0 |
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On mature reflection I think I have made my position clear. Hopefully I count on your vote in next election.
seadog54 (Meath) - Posts: 2195 - 06/05/2022 11:08:06 2415200 Link 13 |
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RD i think seadog has summed up my views really well and there's nothing i could add too or disagree with in what he said. You're asking what if we beat Dublin? In what world do you really think we're beating Dublin. You're asking if we win Leinster should he stay on. That would require Meath to beat not one but 2 division one teams in the Championship for the first time in over 12 years. Andy has never beaten a division one side in six years and you think he's going to win two. the best indicator of future performance is past deeds and our deeds haven't even been close... I'd love to live in a fantasy world, of what if's, buts and maybes and see it happen but I'm a realist RD and we're not going to beat Dublin. The best we can hope for is a close match and not get embarrassed as we did in 2019 and 2020. You're telling us in one breath he should be retained but if he wins Leinster he'd need convincing to stay. Which is it? Cos if he'd need convincing to be retained then he's clearly already got his mind out the gap and shouldn't be in charge of the team. As the saying goes RD, and based on what you've said above lets say we do beat Dublin and then Kildare and have to get on bended knee for him to stay on then, best of luck to him and don't let the door hit you on the **** on the way out. I wouldn't get on bended knee for Jim Gavin who's got a proven track record. I note in a later post you said Andy needs to win leinster or an all ireland semi final to be reatined. Here's the route there Leinster Dublin Kildare/Westmeath Qualifier route Round 1 - team from division 1 or 2 Round 2 - beaten provinical finalist team from division 1 or 2 Quarter Final - provincial winner Semi final Qualifier route already has Tyrone, Mayo, Clare, Armagh +3 or 4 more teams to fill it out the other 3-4 being one of Dublin/Meath, Cork/Kerry, Derry/ Monaghan and one more team. To get to a Leinster win or semi final you'll realistically need to beat at least 2 if not 3 division one teams. In your hearts of hearts and even with your greenest tinted glasses on RD do you see all of that happening. And then as you suggest having to get on bended knee for Andy to stay. And here's the other things if Andy does some how miraculously manage to get there (Win Leinster or an all ireland Semi Final) the questions really need to be ask where has that Meath team been in recent times?? Why has Andy not been able to get the standard of performance out of them until now. You can call that a politicians answer all you like, I live in the real world and we're not going to win Leinster or get to an all ireland semi final. Will that stop me from going to matches and cheering our team on or believing we'll win, of course not but I have tempered my expectations brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 06/05/2022 11:49:17 2415215 Link 7 |
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I reckon many of the posters on here could do it. I wouldn't throw my own name in there cos I'd sack myself ;)
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 06/05/2022 11:53:10 2415217 Link 4 |
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You've asked a few poster the question so I'll ask you, with hand on heart will Meath win Leinster?
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 06/05/2022 11:54:09 2415219 Link 6 |
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Honestly I believe it's 50/50. I do think that should we win v Dublin yes we will win it. I don't rate Kildare at all.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 06/05/2022 13:16:52 2415245 Link 0 |
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No Brian I answered ur question. Now will you answer mine. They others won't as they have agendas, but despite disagreement with u on many things I don't believe you hold a agenda. So should Andy remain if we were to win Leinster.
royaldunne (Meath) - Posts: 19449 - 06/05/2022 13:19:16 2415246 Link 0 |
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If they won Leinster then yes, I would give the current set up another year, and only that. We had a boom in 2019 and done nothing since so I'm not going to commit more than that. Win Leinster in 2022 means promotion in 2023 should be very attainable. Failure to meet that one singular target, then we're back where we are now. I don't think it was wrong to give the current set up a 3 year extension in 2019. We had been promoted to division 1 and been in the super 8's but since then we're muddling along. Accept that no back door in 2020 and 2021 didn't help but playing teams at the same level as us in 2021 and 2022 and not getting promoted back to division 1 or even winning 1 game in division 1 in 2020 when we'd 4 home games (i think) means i don't think this management can improve or bring this current team any further than they have brought it I'm only ever in favour of 1 year deals for an intercounty manager personally, that way they're never too confident and will always be striving to maintain their job. brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 06/05/2022 14:28:49 2415279 Link 5 |
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BTW RD thanks for saying the line about agenda's, I know most will think i have an agenda, but honestly I don't have one against Andy at all. I'm trying to be as dispassionate as I can be about things and for me the negatives far away the positives under Andy's reign. I think Andy's first 3 years showed solid steady progress and year on year growth to a zenith of promotion to division one, but since the Leinster final that year and only scoring 4 points we've been sliding further and further down the pole. 1 point in division one in 2020 and no promotion in 21 or 22 which would've been the main targets for me.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 06/05/2022 16:25:19 2415316 Link 2 |
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He is in line for the Dublin job either way.
Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 549 - 06/05/2022 17:04:15 2415324 Link 2 |
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BTW RD thanks for saying the line about agenda's, I know most will think i have an agenda, but honestly I don't have one against Andy at all. I'm trying to be as dispassionate as I can be about things and for me the negatives far away the positives under Andy's reign. I think Andy's first 3 years showed solid steady progress and year on year growth to a zenith of promotion to division one, but since the Leinster final that year and only scoring 4 points we've been sliding further and further down the pole. 1 point in division one in 2020 and no promotion in 21 or 22 which would've been the main targets for me.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 06/05/2022 18:20:21 2415340 Link 6 |
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I think the top table have to now TAKE CHARGE and be fully accountable for the recovery programme for Meath football. I think any potential manager will need to demonstrate a vision and culture for development over at least a 3 year period. The ball is firmly planted at the feet of the top table. Have a group of 3 people with a proven track record in identifying the key skills for the role of manager, with emphasis on man management,vision,and creating a self improvement culture for each individual and thus the team. Select the manager ,and also a succession plan Critical would be a properly structured review at least once yearly conducted in a timely manner with accountability clauses stiched in. Full objective measurement of training sessions with focus on performance improvement in matches. I think a 1 year contract is simply too short. A properly structured annual review with accountability clauses will suffice with closer monitoring designed to identify unforseen needs as they arise. The purpose is to support the managers needs rather than just be seen as solely a control tool. Selecting the right person will hopefully have the manager who can accept accountability works both ways. ATTITUDE is vital . Common purpose is to improve standards . Communication is critical with manager given power with authority and accountability. The proper candidate will not tolerate impositions without justifications .The CB will explain what they need and require .THEY HAVE THE ULTIMATE POWER AND RESPONSIBILITY !( No more standing back when involement is required) Selecting the right person cannot be rushed .It has to be done carefully with only one objective being to improve standards to bring us back to at LEAST the top 6 in 3 years from now ! nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 07/05/2022 13:11:12 2415399 Link 19 |
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Youre right when you say the top table must take charge and take responsibility for the recovery of Meath football. Thats where your post tails off into spin though, with respect. A lot of high-fallutin talk but thats all it is. This thing of 3 years is a pipe dream, that argument ran out of rope in the 2010s. It'll take about 15/20 years to build an elite county setup if they start yesterday with schools and clubs and if they get their act together and sort out our county stadium concurrently to source interest in the youth and following of the county. There is a lot of thankless work to be done and a lot of short term suffering and slow progress at all levels to be acheived to build a consistently elite side but what irks me above all else is that in the consciousness of the Meath majority we are still codding ourselves with being "just 2/3/4 years off" being the county of the 80s and 90s, which is pure delusion now. Its a fanciful thought and Im partial to it myself from time to time but when everything is weighed off we are a long, long way behind, and we will remain where we are at the moment or slightly better or slightly worse interminably if nothing changes in the running of the county and in the vision of the path forward. The pure size of the population and the mix of urban/rural which is very good in Meath will ensure a standard of above mediocrity essentially forever and unless things change as you rightfully did point out, thats where we will be. Honestly, It seems to me that there is a substantial element who want to hold onto the pipe dream and actually enjoy the notion that soon Meath will magically re-emerge and take their rightful place on the throne of the other 31 counties. They would prefer the delusion to suffer the reality. Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 596 - 08/05/2022 15:13:30 2415571 Link 18 |
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Nice use of generalities there... or spin ! I agree we are in a mess now. However , i note your are short on specific troubled areas that can be improved such as 1. management deficiencies, 2.CB unable or unwilling to complete a proper review in a timely manner. 3. evaluation of training sessions seems non existent. Why have the same faults in the team for 2 years not been ironed out in training sessions?? Is that not the purpose of training sessions? I note you generalise and are short on specifics .Maybe i need to go back to see if your earlier posts are more constructive by using specific areas you suggest need attention. I condense my post by pointing to poor leadership at CB level by accomodating poor management for the last 3 years. From your post i am not sure where you stand on current management for example. I even still stick to my "pipe dream" of being in the top 6 in 3 years BUT if the specific needs to improve standards in leadership as i outlined are not met,then all bets are off !
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 08/05/2022 17:07:41 2415616 Link 19 |
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The first area that needs to be addressed is our management structures at CB level. We need a full time CEO with a background in business preferably to get PT looking like a county ground. Raising finance has to be a priority with the example of Louth and Cork where one is going to be in debt for ages and has it planned in as part of a long term project and the other that shows what a committed individual in the right place can do. Nobody seems to know where the PT development is at and House Draws wont solve it. On a football front we are going in the right direction at under age with our recent successes at minor a good example. Our transition to the same level at 20s is stalled. The transition plan that was put out last year has merit but needs tweaking as this year has shown as the management that did well at minor need a greater input from those that have been there before for example Sean Kelly and Barry O Callaghan. Our senior structure may benefit from a break in home based management after the current campaign with a fresh eye and fresh approach benefitting as the current crop of players are, with a few exceptions, the best that's there. We also have to resist the temptation to constantly hark back to the glory years. The best teams from the 80s and 90s from any county would struggle with any IC team now just on S&C which personally I think is a pity as many, not all, players at IC now are like rugby league players but can only use one foot and only raise their hands above their heads to lift weights. Overall though with the growth in population in the next few years our fortunes will change just on numbers alone once we can keep our games attractive to the majority of kids so they don't drift to other codes when decision time comes. ABK67 (Meath) - Posts: 62 - 09/05/2022 11:32:54 2415861 Link 1 |
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There is a chance of beating Dublin I believe. The management however are boxed in . The team strategy is not right for winning in Croke park but has been improving of recent times. To change it this close to a match would backfire as there is not enough preparation over time.
Ashrules (Dublin) - Posts: 549 - 09/05/2022 12:22:08 2415891 Link 0 |
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Yes agreed as you say everything on a road to recovery has to start with CB .
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 09/05/2022 13:10:21 2415930 Link 16 |
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Was that not supposed to be Seamus Kenny's role. Unsure of his successes as it appears it was used as a stepping stone to get to Croke Park with not much if any real developments achieved.
Brownepat (Meath) - Posts: 532 - 10/05/2022 09:02:28 2416106 Link 0 |
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Not sure what Seamus did other than being a great servant to Meath football cleaning up the loose balls around midfield .Good luck to him in his new job ! Some years ago i do recall 3 men mentioned to be directors of football in the county (nicknamed the 3 wise men ) Their role included selection of Manager etc. It looked like a good idea then . I think 1 of the men is helping out now in another county. What ever happened to the 3 wise men idea ? Was it just paper talk ? If not why did the idea appear to just evaporate ?
nobull456 (Meath) - Posts: 1266 - 10/05/2022 10:10:23 2416130 Link 17 |