The debate about where the game is going on the Sunday game was interesting last night. The comment about the likes of Cork, Galway, Limerick and Dublin growing population wise is true no doubt while rural populations will diminish. Where does this leave the game? I am not sure if Pat Gilroy's comments about amalgamating counties rather than splitting Dublin was tongue in cheek or just his response to what he believes is a daft notion, splitting Dublin. However, amalgamating counties is actually an interesting one. Would an amalgamation of say, Wexford and Wicklow be any stronger or anymore likely to stop Dublin? Carlow & Kildare - Meath & Westmeath or God forbid, Meath & Louth!!

Do you think this could work?

ASaminthehand (Meath) - Posts: 422 - 07/12/2020 10:47:19    2319670

Very difficult to know where all this will lead. The early success of the GAA came from the fact that it was based on the parish and the county. Those areas were well defined geographically, almost along tribal lines. In the intervening 136 years those lines have in most cases become even more defined. The exception being the large city clubs where the parish boundaries are to an extent ignored. This is not a new phenomenon as St Vincent's of Dublin cast the net well wide of their Marino base as instanced by the Foley brothers, Lar and Des travelling from rural Kinsealy to in effect create a city based super club in the 1950's. The big city based hurling clubs in Cork city actively recruited young lads from rural clubs by arranging employment for them. It was only when transport improved and young men from rural areas could easily commute to the city as well a improved local employment that clubs like Middleton and Newtownshandrum were able to hold on to their players and claim County Championships.
Will there be a danger that if amalgamations of parishes and counties start to take place that strong local identities and passions will be lost? Or will it be that if such amalgamations don't take place that the areas concerned will simply become irrelevant?
Perhaps the current slump in football, (particularly in Leinster, minus one) is actually down to low level management at club and county level. No fault of the people involved, they are up for re-election every year and any hint of radicalism could easily lead to defeat at the next county convention so progressive programs could easily be killed of by, the need to survive, as say county secretary or through lack of continuity if regular changes at the top table were to become commonplace. Is it time therefore to appoint full time CEOs for each county? Or smaller counties could indeed share a CEO, examples include, Leitrim and Longford, counties with probably the lowest populations. Conflict of interest while possibly being an issue would be abated somewhat in the case mentioned by the fact that the counties are in different provinces. If the costs involved with maintaining a CEO for each became too much then CEO sharing must be considered and they need not be neighbours but within reasonable distance of each other. This will need leadership from the top to implement and require, possibly several rule changes.
It is something that needs very careful examination and certainly no knee jerk reactions.

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1066 - 07/12/2020 14:41:03    2319779

ASaminthehand (Meath) - Posts: 422 - 07/12/2020 16:12:01    2319825

Thoroughly interesting debate. Something has to give; the game is in tatters. In many ways. I wouldn't even begin to be an expert on coming up with ideas for reform and change but they do need to happen, particularly in the county/national game. I have to admit I dont see the appetite for change at all eminating from Croke Park. The GAA is one of the most stridently conservative and imbedded organisations in the land, and there is a huge disconnect from fans/people on the ground and the bronze hats. And even then amongst the people at grassroots there is a wealth of opinion as to what should change. It seems to vary from province to province, county to county, town to town, person to person. Nothing Ive seen in my years on this Earth makes me believe we will see radical changes soon. The people in power are not movers and shakers. The game is also stuck in a paradigm where it is still trying to get in line with the country as it continues to change. Think of how different Irish society is now compared to how it was in 2000. Incomparable. Things have changed and the old GAA system of provincial titles and county boundaries is outdated and stale. The game isn't necesserily in the decline some think it is, but is most definitely in a period of stagnation and that issue will have to be addressed.

Young_gael (Meath) - Posts: 589 - 07/12/2020 17:19:10    2319871

GAA 2050
The football Championship will be semi Professional, 16 Teams (not based on Counties, have their own Identity) ,10 based in Dublin & 6 regional teams based in the big urban city's Galway, Limerick, Cork, Athlone, Belfast & Derry . All allowed buy in, sell, trade players from other Counties, with a panel of 30 players each, inc. a Draft system from College,
The Super Cup , all TV Rights, Commercial sponsorship, Jersey sales split like NFL. All the Players get treated equally, all have Sponsored cars, Life Coaches, Sports psychologists, free meals, end of Season Holidays, a reasonable chance.
This might help solve a problem for the GAA as all the best "Volunteers" could then pay TAX & PRSI working for the super clubs.
The GAA could then concentrate on the grass roots, player Participation, Go Games, they might then realise that there are kids in Rural/town/village clubs that would be interested in GAA if they got the right support.
We then play the All Ireland as the Amateur Cup competition,
(it goes like Rugby with the interProvs as Professional & the Towns cup for the amateur players,)
This sounds Farcical but look at all the issues it would solve, every kid could dream about running out on Finals day and lifting the Cup, whether your from Dublin Leitrim or Longford

ABD09 (Meath) - Posts: 68 - 07/12/2020 18:24:54    2319903

Ed2010 (Meath) - Posts: 93 - 07/12/2020 18:49:43    2319916

Crinigan (Meath) - Posts: 1319 - 07/12/2020 20:47:09    2319985

MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1066 - 07/12/2020 23:42:46    2320063

They need to look in the direction of a franchise base really with 16 teams or more depending on financial viability. The GAA turns over millions surely if they create a half decent format and pay the players a base salary dependent on the budget for the year it would work. Each team can draft a roster of players from the current players in each county. It would make it competitive for sure and something similar to the American set up in terms of drafting players from either the college set ups or u20 teams on a yearly basis. With the profits the GAA turn over I dont see how this couldn't be a good option. Its surely the next progression of the game as its pretty much a semi professional sport in terms of comittment anyway.

CMAN1570 (Meath) - Posts: 53 - 08/12/2020 00:47:31    2320075

Just to kind of give a little perspective about population and Meath. People are always saying about Meath and kildare and population. But population doesnt gurantee sucess.

Meath is the county with most people in the country who are not from the county. 20 years agp when Meath population was 103000 or 50 years ago when Meaths popualation was 66000 most people in the county where from the county. Bernard Flynn constantly talks how Meath has lost its gaa identity in last 20 years with population growth.

In 2016 there was 194,302 in residents of County Meath , only 67,798 (34.9 per cent) were born in the county, the lowest percentage of any county in the State. Half of all residents in Meath were born elsewhere in Ireland. In general, the commuter belt counties of Meath, Kildare and Wicklow had the highest percentage of residents that were not born in the county. Almost three quarters of Cork and Donegal residents were born in the county, Of the 1.3 million usual residents in Dublin 880,457 (67 per cent) were born in the county.

The counties who have the most people born in their county who are from the county are Cork, Limerick, Dublin, Donegal, Kerry and Mayo. They are top 6 counties in Ireland who have most people born in their county who are from the county. 5 of those counties have been strong and sucessful recently. The 4 counties that have the lowest percentage of people born in their county who are not from that county are Meath killdare Wicklow and leitrim. All counties that have struggled in the last ten years.

Population doesnt gurantee sucess. Population gurantees potential but it does not gurantee sucess. Population gurantees nothing. Actually if you look at many counties with big population many have suffered with levels of underachievement.

Just regards Meath were highly sucessful GAA county from 1930 to 2010. In all those decades the top 5 most consistent sucessful counties in every decade in 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s 80s 90s and 00s were Kerry Dublin Galway M Cork and Meath. Which county had smallest pop, it was Meath. When you look at All Ireland winners from 1960 to 2010 the two counties with the smallest population were Offaly with just under 100000. Meath were just over 100000. Kerry Dublin Cork Galway Down Derry Donegal all had bigger populations then Meath at that time. Mayo had a bigger population then Meath in 1996. Donegal had a bigger population then Meath in the 90s. When Meath went toe to toe with Dublin for 80 years and had huge periods of sucess over Dublin, Meath was a very rural midlands county with an average population. Meath overachieved in many cases.

Meath population in 1949 when they first won Sam was 66000 approx Dublins population was just under 700000 approx in late 40s. Meath were beating Dublin every year in late 40s and early 50s.

Population of Counties in late 40s

Dublin 693000 approx
Cork 34300 approx
Galway 165000 approx
Mayo 148000 approx
Limerick 142000 approx
Donegal 136000 approx
Kerry 133000 approx
Wexford 91000 approx
Tipp 77000 approx
Waterford 76000 approx
Meath 66000 approx

Meath won 3rd All Ireland in mid 60s population below are counties pop in mid 60s
Ireland County Pop 1966 ( I dont have 6 counties but Down and Antrim would have counties with big pop at the time)

1966 Population in Counties

1 Dublin 795000 approx
2 Cork 339000 approx
3 Galway 148000 approx
4 limerick 137000 approx
5 Kerry 116000 approx
6 Mayo 115000 approx
7 Donegal 108000 approx
8 Wexford 83000 approx
9 Waterford 73000 approx
10 Tippearey 69000 approx
11 Louth 69000 approx
12 Meath 67000 approx
13 kildare 66000 approx


Meaths population when Sean Boylan took over was 95000 and increased to 103000 by late 80s. When Meath won Sam in late 80s counties population was 103000 approx in late 80s Dubs was over a million.

Population of Some counties 1996

Dublin 1020000 approx
Cork 412000 approx
Galway 178000
Limerick 164000 approx
Donegal 129000 aporox
Kerry 124000 approx
Mayo 115000 approx
Meath 103000 approx

Meath had an average population from 1930 to 2010. In that period only kerry and Dublin were more sucessful then Meath in that period when Meath won 7 All Irelands, 20 leinster titles and 7 national league div 1 titles with 6 different teams.

Meath won 7 All Irelands in that period, Dubs won 9.
Dubs won 1 All Ireland in 40s, Meath won 1 All Ireland in 50s,
Dubs on 1 All Ireland in 50s, Meath won 1 All Ireland in 50s,
Dubs won 1 All Ireland in 60s, Meath won 1 All Ireland in 60s,
Dubs won 3 All Ireland in 70s, Meath won 0 All Ireland in 70s,
Dublin won 1 All Ireland in 80s, Meath won 2 All Ireland in 80s,
Dublin won 1 All Ireland in 90s, Meath won 2 All Irelands in 90s,
Dubs won 0 All Irelands in 00s, Meath won 0 All Ireland in 00s.

So Meath went toe to toe with Dublin for 80 years and had period of dominance over Dublin 40s 50s 60s 80s and 90s which no other county has ever had. Meath had an average rural pop at the time. And along with Offaly ( 71 72 82 ) and Cavan ( 46 47 52 ) were the counties with lowest pop who Sam from 1930 to 2010. Dubs have a population of just under 800000 in those decades 50s 60s and Meath pop was 66000 yet Meath had a massive rivalry with the Dubs. It was the most unequal rivalry in Irish sport. Cork and kerry are similar enough counties and so are Tipp and kilkenny and so are Galway and Mayo and so are Armagh and Tyrone. All grest gaa rivals. Meath and Dublin was the most unequal rivalry in Irish sport. Meath had a small population compared to the Dubs who were the wealthiest county in Ireland. Meath was sparsely rural average pop with very few jobs very few factories in the county other then farming up to 2000.

Meath were overachieving back then. Meath population has now doubled in 20 years to 195000 approx and Kildsres pop has also doubled in 20 year to over 220000 approx. Both are underacheiving now. There are other examples of counties with big pop who underachieve.

Other examples
Wicklow Wickow has a big population a wealthy county with strong gaa clubs but Wicklow have never won leinster title. Meath and kildare pop growth is similar Wicklw all 3 counties have huge pop areas currently which our kind of like greater Dublin suburbia.

Antrim Yes half pop not interested but still Antrim has big population. Has the second biggest city on island. Strong clubs, but Antrim havent won Ulster title in near 80 years

Limerick Big population Limerick football hasnt won a Munster title or beatng kerry in championship for newr 130 years since 1890s. Yes limerick hurling has been strong in last 4 years. But from 1940 to 2015 limerick hurling underachieved. In 75 years Limerick won 2 All Irelands in 1940 and 1973. Limerick won All Ireland every 40 or 50 years in hurling. In the same period that limerick won 2 hurling All Ireland kilkenny won 24 All Irelands and Cork won 19 All Irelands and Tipp won 14 All Irelands.

Kildare has a big population. In top 5 counties for registered players but have always underachievd. Kildare has won 4 leinsters in last 80 years, reached 2 All Irelands finals in 90 years and never won minor All Ireland or national keague div 1 title and beaten Dubs in 1 leinster final in 90 years.

Dubs are another example of underachieving with big population up to 2010. Dubs won their first 15 All Irelands with kerry Mayo men, country lads. Every Dublin All Ireland team up to 1950s had 12 or 13 country lads and 2 or 3 token Dubs. 1958 is the first All Ireland Dublin won with Dublin players. Up to 2010 Dubs underachieved. Compare record with kerry

All Irelands won 1930 to 2010
In 30s Dubs won 0 kerry won 5
In 40s Dubs won 1 kerry won 2
In 50s Dubs won 1 kerry won 3
In 60s Dubs won 1 kerry won 2
In 70s Dubs won 3 kerry won 4
In 80s Dubs won 1 kerry won 5
In 90s Dubs won 1 kerry won 1
In 00s Dubs won 0 kerry won 5

Other examples of counties with big populations but underacheiving recently would be Down. Down have great tradition with two great teams one in 60s another great team in early 90s. In between in 70s and 80s Down struggled and Down havent won an Ulster title in 26 years.

Population doesnt gurantee sucess. There is no gurantee that Meath or kildare population growth will ever help both to be sucessful. Look at Wickow or Antrim.or limerick football or the Dubs before 2011. The question of population related to sucess is much complicated then people think.

Furlong1949 (Meath) - Posts: 1067 - 08/12/2020 05:55:26    2320082

Think we may have a similar situation on our hands with club football in Meath. I could see the likes of Ratoath, Colmcilles, and Ashbourne dominating in the near future

LoyalRoyal66 (Meath) - Posts: 82 - 08/12/2020 08:00:27    2320087

I am not sure I have any answers to whats going to happen with the direction of the inter county game or what should happen. One thins we are good at me included is blaming county boards, Mangers. player commitment etc etc.

But I heard Anthony Moyles saying in recent podcast that in Meath there certain clubs with shiny grounds and sparkling pitches but not many players. Parents that fly in to car park drop the kids off, and with a puff of smoke they are gone.
He went on to say in Dublin parents are encouraged to stick around try and get parents involved in the club at some capacity.

So my own situation I was asked to help out with under age team club in my club in Meath about 6 years ago. I went and got a coaching badge it was just one night if I remember. So I did it for awhile. I moved county I am not living in Louth. Now I have a kids of mine own, And they are with a club in Drogheda. So recently the call was made my kids team needed a covid officer. I waiting a good long while. to be sure someone would do it. But low and behold no I got the job :) Listen its not much help but its doing something.
Sorry for boring story above just wanted to say some small ways people can get involved. And it might make a difference.

I realize becoming a coach might a big enough commitment these days, But can you do it ? Can you help bring kids to games not leave it others ? Do you own a business ? can you sponsor a team somehow ? Give something to a raffle.
Can you buy a club lotto ticket ? Can you help sell club raffle tickets. Can you afford a royal house draw ticket ?
Support a club by attending games.

I think we all can do more the help out. In small ways we can all help which over time will help in a big way. I think we forget that these small ways collectively can make a big difference long term.
Sorry it this is off topic but I think we all need a reminder everyone might part of the problem and solution.

bobkarlgees (Meath) - Posts: 1263 - 08/12/2020 08:03:37    2320089

ASaminthehand (Meath) - Posts: 422 - 08/12/2020 11:47:15    2320164

Thelongwoodslasher (Meath) - Posts: 385 - 09/12/2020 12:33:25    2320616