I don't think the opinions have changed Sean. The posters (bar a select few) on here were always behind the players but Andrews had his chance and things seemed to get worse game after game. When the players lose respect for the manager, there is little that can be done. 25 euro and 15 for the terrace isn't the pennies it used to be. We're paying good money to go and see the team play and at the very least we expect the players to give it their all, which they did yesterday. An improvement has already been seen from the league games (atrocious stuff some of them) and as long as we are improving, then I and many others will be content. No realistic person expects the quick fix, it simply will not happen.

Richie I already explained to you why Keating took the lineball and why he did not shoot (very tight angle). If you had watched the game you'd know that. Stop embarrassing yourself.

Bananas (Cavan) - Posts: 73 - 21/05/2012 21:59:21    1177734

Bananas , 21/05/2012 at 21:59

With respect can you show me where it was stated that the players lost respect for Val Andrews and the management, P Reilly stated that it was never discussed or went to a vote either despite what richiej posted 33 to 3 when only 26 were at the meeting. As far as I am concerned his post started the roller coaster that resulted in a fine man walking plus John Morrisson and Ger Lyons what a shame.
In fairness to Val Andrews he advised the players to go away and discuss things and try and work out a working plan both for the players and the management that was all the management I have to add including the present manager.
It is well documented I had the greatest of respect for Val Andrews and this will not change.
He also was as far as I know given a 4 year plan but was ??????? plain and simple.
I take it you are happy with just a 6 point beating well I am not this was the preliminary round in Ulster and we are gone so I assume you will be happy with the same next year and the year after.
Listening to Martin McKugh you would think he is the be all off everything.
Our minors are gone as well how long more before we win another Ulster Minor title. ??

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4602 - 22/05/2012 11:59:39    1177912

Keating got his chance @ full forward & took it. i dont know what age he is.

But he has had a colourful past in the jersey.

Also did nt he spend most of his summers in America?

I think hes a talent alright but when ever we played them it was Connor Smith was hard to handle. So for me the jury is out..

Denn Man (Cavan) - Posts: 413 - 22/05/2012 12:47:15    1177973

Sean - Val Andrews may be a nice guy but he only delivered 1 half decent performance this year against Sligo. After that the performances got worse and worse. He may have selectors but as he said himself "the buck stops with me". You yourself were baffled by what was being done on the line, you thought he was good enough to win promotion from Div 3. He wasn't and he left at a time where the team was going backwards. Now he is gone and best of luck to him. Hyland had 6 weeks to turn the team from the Antrim farce to face a team that was a kick of the ball from an All Ireland Final. The performance was a huge improvement over anything Andrews did and this with a lot of injured players. Don't let your affection/respect for Andrews blinker you to what was a step in the right direction. I expect to see another step forward in the qualifiers when hopefully that game will stand to McKiernan and others (thats probably why they were left on the pitch).

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 22/05/2012 12:57:14    1177982

Sean - Val Andrews may be a nice guy but he only delivered 1 half decent performance this year against Sligo. After that the performances got worse and worse. He may have selectors but as he said himself "the buck stops with me". You yourself were baffled by what was being done on the line, you thought he was good enough to win promotion from Div 3. He wasn't and he left at a time where the team was going backwards. Now he is gone and best of luck to him. Hyland had 6 weeks to turn the team from the Antrim farce to face a team that was a kick of the ball from an All Ireland Final. The performance was a huge improvement over anything Andrews did and this with a lot of injured players. Don't let your affection/respect for Andrews blinker you to what was a step in the right direction. I expect to see another step forward in the qualifiers when hopefully that game will stand to McKiernan and others (thats probably why they were left on the pitch).
fredflint , 22/05/2012 at 12:57


Are you trying to tell me the present incumbent had nothing to do with it then off course he had for he was part and parcel of the whole set up. Its you that's blinkered remove them and see the wings. It will be the same old rhetoric heard it all before plain and simple.
I hope I am proved wrong but I doubt it very much.I expect Mr Hyland and his full back room staff will show me how its done. ????
I look at it this way one point 6 points 10 points once you are the wrong side of the score its a defeat so the run continues, next match a qualifier who do you want to get in that I ask. Nearly 12840 in the park on sunday where 12839 happy with the result. ?? I was not for one, another year waiting who we will draw for Ulster once again and hope we draw maybe an easy team to get a RUN.
I FEEL DONEGAL WERE THERE FOR THE TAKING and to leave a man dead on his feet on the pitch and take off Mark McKeever one has to ask questions even Bud Fitz taking him off was surely another surprise. I read about all the players sitting in the dug out well how do they feel then will they all be here for the qualifiers or will they head off to the states I wonder. ??You ask why I think Donegal were there for the taking well how many times did we Mark McKeever turn the ball over he lays it off and instead of moving it forward fast we decided to wait for Donegal to regroup major error if you don't agree with what I am saying well we see different games then.
I want us to win like most on here and I am never happy when we loose for it becomes a dirty habit.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4602 - 22/05/2012 15:55:01    1178169

SeanORinn 22/05/2012 11:59:39

It was well documented that there were problems within the setup. Having spoke to 2 county players at different stages during the league, I got the impression that there were minor issues that did not look like they would be resolved. There were no major problems like some people thought but there was enough for the players to feel Andrews was not the man for the job and I think the results speak for themselves.

This is not a dig at Andrews at all, far from it in fact, but for whatever reason(s) the situation was not improving and it was best for all if Andrews went his separate way. I don't think RichieJ's post had an influence on the situation at all to be honest, despite what he'd like to think I'm sure. Andrews is an intelligent man and he obviously knew something was not right and he took the most sensible option which was to leave.

As for this 4 year plan nonsense I have to laugh every time I hear it. How can somebody be given a ''4 year plan''? There absolutely needs to be signs of improvement in a team. You cannot be given a job with a 4 year plan, do it for 2 years and show no signs of having improved the team and be expected to be kept on for another 2 years just because there's a ''4 year plan''. Absolute nonsense.

You give a manager a minimum of 18 months to do a job and if there is zero sign of improvement then you must accept the fact that he was not the man for the job. You don't give him 6 months, but you don't give him 4 years either. It all comes down to whether the layers feel there's an improvement and whether the results show any improvement. League games need to be considered in this as well because you simply cannot see it in one-off championship games, especially against the likes of Donegal.

You say ''I take it you are happy with just a 6 point beating well I am not this was the preliminary round in Ulster and we are gone so I assume you will be happy with the same next year and the year after''

That is a foolish thing to say. When did I say I was happy with a 6 point beating and would be again next year? Going into the game I was concentrating more on the team's performance then on the result to be honest. I wanted to see the players giving it their all, which they did, and there were glimpses of good football from our side as well which illustrates there is hope for the future. The fact that it is the preliminary round really does make no difference whatsoever.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Hyland and Forde have the players to work with. No more unnecessary chopping and changing, they need to get on with it with the players that are there, and I am confident they will. I'm sorry to disappoint you but you seem to me like another poster living in dreamland looking for the overnight quick fix. It cannot and will not happen. If there is no sign of improvement next year or the year after and we are still at risk of/actually are relegated to division 4, then it will become apparent Hyland was not up to the task either. However, until that happens, give him a chance will you.

The minor result is a completely different subject altogether. Although, from what I've heard/saw, overconfidence seemed to be the problem there and the management has to share a lot of the blame for the result in my opinion.

Bananas

Bananas (Cavan) - Posts: 73 - 22/05/2012 16:46:59    1178218

Sean - are you telling me that the effort the players put in on Sunday was not superior than anything they did in the league??? Be fair who were we playing (ulster champs and AI semi finalists)and us a team who barely stayed in Div 3, playing with 8 championship debutants and you think we should be winning this game. Your judgement is normally sound in my opinion but you are way off here, perhaps clouded by a loyalty to the former manager. If really think Cavan should be beating Doengal then I presume you think Tipp will have the beating of Cork in Munster? We area young team and we need to see improvement match to match. A good draw (ie avoid any of the top 7/8 teams in the country) at home and a hard fought win will do wonders for these young lads. Give them a break and drop the criticism, we are listening to enough from Richie and his SJ fanclub friends without you starting too.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 22/05/2012 17:20:39    1178265

Sean - are you telling me that the effort the players put in on Sunday was not superior than anything they did in the league??? Be fair who were we playing (ulster champs and AI semi finalists)and us a team who barely stayed in Div 3, playing with 8 championship debutants and you think we should be winning this game. Your judgement is normally sound in my opinion but you are way off here, perhaps clouded by a loyalty to the former manager. If really think Cavan should be beating Doengal then I presume you think Tipp will have the beating of Cork in Munster? We area young team and we need to see improvement match to match. A good draw (ie avoid any of the top 7/8 teams in the country) at home and a hard fought win will do wonders for these young lads. Give them a break and drop the criticism, we are listening to enough from Richie and his SJ fanclub friends without you starting too.
fredflint , 22/05/2012 at 17:20

I am not criticising the players at all what I am saying is when we took the bull by the horns and put in first time balls Donegal were in trouble but it was changed why I ask.We came out in the second half same thing first three scores ours and then back to the same system why I ask again. I still feel Donegal were there for the taking thats all. I am in no way criticising the players please have another read of my post.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4602 - 22/05/2012 17:34:30    1178277

but you seem to me like another poster living in dreamland looking for the overnight quick fix.
Bananas.

No one thing I don't do is live in dreamland like a few others.

Were you at the match if yes would you say if we played as we did for the first 10 minuets in each half we could have put this game up to Donegal this what I am saying. Most of the fellows are fit now and are well able to last 70 minuets. I personally feel three different substitutions could well have swung this game. E Keating and Mark McKeever played their hearts out and others should have fed from their energy.
I know there will not be a quick fix but I will say it again I feel this match was there for the taking thats all.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4602 - 22/05/2012 17:44:07    1178291

Seanorinn,

Obviously I was at the match and yes I can see where you're coming from but I think you have oversimplified things. As each half progressed I don't think we were let play the way we did in the opening 10 mins of the game and just after halftime. Donegal adjusted and made life difficult, something they are good at. I agree that different players utilised at different times would have helped us and I have said before I think the team was not lined out correctly from the beginning but that's a different matter. I honestly don't think Donegal were there for the taking at any stage. They lifted their foot off the gas for the last 20 mins because they knew they were in the driver's seat and were comfortable enough that they didn't have to kill themselves for the full 70 minutes.

Sure, Bid Fitz was unlucky to hit the crossbar and the post, and a few of their free kicks were questionable (Did Givney definitely pick the ball of the ground in the second half?) and some of our frees should have been converted (Raymond Galligan - enough said) but to say Donegal were ''there for the taking'' is an exaggeration. That is.. in my opinion of course.

Bananas

Bananas (Cavan) - Posts: 73 - 22/05/2012 18:04:56    1178320

some very sensible posts there from Sean. Maybe the emperor (Mr Hyland) has no clothes after all. That would be terrible to think that we had just gotten rid of a better man. I don't think I could stand another 4 years of mediocrity. The problem is that Hyland is probably the safest manager in his job for a long time because we have chopped and changed so much that nobody has the stomach for change anymore . Now that is IRONIC.

s goldrick (Cavan) - Posts: 5524 - 22/05/2012 18:06:29    1178321

(Did Givney definitely pick the ball of the ground in the second half?) but to say Donegal were ''there for the taking'' is an exaggeration. That is.. in my opinion of course.

Bananas
Bananas , 22/05/2012 at 18:04
Yes he did there is no question and he knew it himself did you not read his body language.
Yes I do believe they were there for the taking I have no doubts at all about it.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4602 - 22/05/2012 19:57:57    1178414

I was no fan of the previous regime, and was waiting to see what the new manager was going to do, I was expecting to see more of the same, a team with no passion, a team lacking of effort, a team going through the motions, yadda yadda yadda.
Yet I came away from the pairc with a sense that this is a team that is different from the tripe displays I watched under Andrews. I saw passion, I saw effort, I saw for the first time in a numbers of years a bunch of lads who had pride in the Jersey, yes we were beaten, yes the team has a lot to learn, but by God I can't fault the committment, and passion.
I would rather have a team of players who are passionate about wearing the cavan crest, who will work for each other and who are committed to becoming a better team. For a team composed thus, will get better each time they take the field.

cavangaafan (Cavan) - Posts: 218 - 22/05/2012 21:21:28    1178482

Seanorinn

Why bother commenting on such a minor detail of my post. It's clear you cannot argue with the points I have made because you know you are wrong. You only choose to reply to certain sections of my posts because you think that picking out non-contextual elements of my post and criticizing them will make the rest of your posts look more valid. Cop on. You can't play like we did last year (and in the league this year) and then expect to beat the ulster champions because they were ''there for the taking''. They took their foot off the pedal in the second half because the game was pretty much over. Stop living living in dreamland.

Bananas (Cavan) - Posts: 73 - 23/05/2012 14:12:03    1178828

Why bother commenting on such a minor detail of my post. It's clear you cannot argue with the points I have made because you know you are wrong. You only choose to reply to certain sections of my posts because you think that picking out non-contextual elements of my post and criticizing them will make the rest of your posts look more valid. Cop on. You can't play like we did last year (and in the league this year) and then expect to beat the ulster champions because they were ''there for the taking''. They took their foot off the pedal in the second half because the game was pretty much over. Stop living living in dreamland.


Confused by your reply for I am not sure what you are pointing at to tell you the truth.
No matter your posts don't require a full reply so I picked the section that required a reply from me.
I still say they were there for the taking.

The Quiet Man (Cavan) - Posts: 4602 - 23/05/2012 14:29:11    1178845

Sean if you think that then you are incredibly naive.

fredflint (Cavan) - Posts: 1485 - 23/05/2012 15:11:43    1178887

seanorinn
County: Cavan
Posts: 1758

I still say they were there for the taking.

You cannot seriously believe that, Donegal were easily a 12 point better team, the only reason Cavan got to within 6 was because Donegal were happy to sit back once they established a lead. If they really wanted they could have won by 12 or 15 points.

SlipperyFish (Cavan) - Posts: 196 - 23/05/2012 16:49:07    1178992

So true Fredflint and Slippery fish. Agree completely, Donegal could have scored more if they needed to.

Bananas (Cavan) - Posts: 73 - 23/05/2012 17:58:12    1179071

We had TC and VA now the present Team managers get beat by 6 points.
I say the time is overdue to get Donal Keogan back even as assistant manager

tomsmith (Cavan) - Posts: 4163 - 23/05/2012 21:52:57    1179247

I say the time is overdue for you to quit posting tomsmith

SlipperyFish (Cavan) - Posts: 196 - 24/05/2012 15:18:56    1179685