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Think like everything the funding from Gov't was parked as result of covid. The project was being funded by Govt grants, Leinster Council grants and some money from internal coffers. Without the former, hard to break ground on something of this nature. Pretty sure OT and Newbridge and others are in the same boat Be surprised to see anything in the next few years happen as GAA and provincial councils tighten their belts and recover from 2 years without full attendances at matches and sponsorship funding hit. brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 21/09/2021 15:40:17 2382093 Link 11 |
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The project as planned was doomed even pre-Covid, because when it was announced that it had to get approval as been a financially viable project from Croke Park, it was pretty clear they were never going to be given the go ahead for a stadium of that scale. As soon as everyone realises we were never going to be able to afford a trophy stadium even before Covid and will certainly not now have the finances. Just knock the existing stand which is not fit for purpose and construct a new one similar to Portlaoise &Tullamore and do not cripple us with debt to have a trophy stadium that will shackle us and harm the development of football in Meath. But stubbornness is one thing we are not short of in Meath GAA so do not be surprised if the Grande Stadium idea is still pedalled as viable. The saddest thing is the amount of good money we have spent already (at least €700, 000) and nothing to show. Telling people the dream stadium is still a reality is very disingenuous and will only lead to a nightmare down the road. I admire ambition but I am sorry to say this approach is just plain stupid. I am very worried for the future of Meath GAA if this project is not reviewed immediately. Meathball (Meath) - Posts: 140 - 21/09/2021 23:37:00 2382215 Link 1 |
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This is from only 15th April this year. Realistically, how many games a year will Pairc Tailteann get that will pay even the running costs of such a stadium? I would say that perhaps 10 to 15 games a year would have more than 10,000 attendance so the plans in that article seem to be unsustainable. stillaroyal (Meath) - Posts: 225 - 22/09/2021 09:57:15 2382250 Link 0 |
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Totally agree. We are heading into another recession and alot of clubs are on their knees after the pandemic and struggle to raise funds. Foley91 (Meath) - Posts: 418 - 22/09/2021 12:26:33 2382297 Link 0 |
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TBF i think the plan has always been that they'd build the stadium in a modular fashion (one stand at a time) and start on the commons road side of the ground. This was all the funding that was agreed to, not to redo all sides of the ground at one time. It was always planned this way so there would be minimal disruption to the stadium and games could be played all the time rather than having to move the county team to Kells (as happened in the 80's) or an alternative venue like Donaghmore/Ashbourne whilst the works were being carried out. The reason they can't knock the existing stand much and all of an eye sire as it is is they'd have to pay a fortune to correctly dispose of the materials within the stand. I believe and totally open to correction that there is a lot of asbestos within the stand which requires specialist disposal and only a few contractors do this type of work. brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 22/09/2021 14:46:47 2382337 Link 14 |
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This is what I meant to link to earlier https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40266263.html Meath GAA's ingenuity applauded for securing special Páirc Tailteann funding The €400,000 in funding was raised via a 'donation' through the Irish Immigrant Investor Programme THU, 15 APR, 2021 - 07:00 PAUL KEANE Meath officials have been praised for their ingenuity after securing an initial €400,000 in funding for the redevelopment of Páirc Tailteann through a special government investment programme. Meath GAA chairman John Kavanagh confirmed that the figure was raised via a 'donation' through the Irish Immigrant Investor Programme, set up by the government in 2012 to encourage foreign investment and to stimulate employment. The endowment scheme allows for non-European Economic Area nationals to invest benevolently in an Irish public project benefiting the arts, sports, health, culture or education. The scheme is strictly administered by the Department of Justice and facilitates non-EEA nationals, typically high net worth individuals, and their families to acquire residency status in Ireland. Kavanagh said that while €400,000 has already been locked down by Meath they are attempting to process five separate investments in total adding up to a potential €2m, all of which will go towards the Navan stadium's redevelopment. It's understood that Kildare are also considering the scheme to potentially raise funds for the redevelopment of St Conleth's Park in Newbridge while the Termon club in Donegal have already secured funding through the scheme. "It is run through the Department of Justice and a lot of time and effort has gone into it, over quite a long period of time," said Meath chairman Kavanagh. "It wasn't today or yesterday that we started down this track, this is going back a significant period. The scheme facilitates non-EEA nationals and their families who commit to an approved investment to acquire residency in Ireland. "We have had solicitors and a lot of professionals working on this. It's not a case that you just ring up and apply, there's a lot to get through. Everything goes through Croke Park too and it was nice to hear that they were impressed with the initiative taken on this. "From our perspective, it's great that with finance tight at the minute we've managed to find another source of income instead of going back to the clubs looking for help." Meath have planning permission since early 2018 for a 21,000-seater redevelopment of their Páirc Tailteann base. The first phase of what will be a long-term plan is to complete a 4,000-7,000 capacity stand on the north terrace, opposite the current main stand, at a cost of between €12m and €13m. It is hoped that work may begin later this year, or in early 2022, with an 18-24 timeline for completion. In a further boost to the project, Kavanagh said that the €6.27m funding pledged in January of 2020 under the government's Large Scale Sports Infrastructure Fund - just weeks before the pandemic struck - remains in place. But the €1.6m from Croke Park and €400,000 from the Leinster Council is less than hoped for and reflective of the financial hit taken by the GAA over the last year or so. Kildare (€4.87m) and Waterford (€3.75) were also promised funding under the Large Scale Sports Infrastructure Fund and it remains to be seen if they and other units throughout the country choose to access the immigrant programme to raise further money. "There's a very robust vetting process in place," said Kavanagh of the scheme. "Will others opt to use it? To be honest, I don't know but if it's there and people can benefit from it, more power to them. I don't mean to sound selfish but Meath is my only priority. "We reported to our clubs on Monday night and were happy to give them that news. There's so much going on at the minute that clubs are all under pressure and to be able to tell them that money is coming in from elsewhere was great." stillaroyal (Meath) - Posts: 225 - 22/09/2021 14:50:05 2382339 Link 0 |
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Brian I think anyone on the committee who use the excuse "that the existing stand can't be knocked because of the costs involved in asbestos removal, should immediately excuse themselves from the committee as that viewpoint would indicate they are totally incompetent. Considering that same committee have forked out over €700,000 so far for the design, it is mad to think that for a fraction of the cost of the design fee, the asbestos could be disposed of, If that is the level of reasoning and knowledge that we have making decisions, then we are even in much worse shape than I thought. Of course the immigrant fund is a great idea of getting money to fund the project, but let's spend it wisely. The Club delegates will be doing a great disservice to Meath GAA (If and when there is ever another monthly meeting scheduled) if they do not question, has even the most basic viability study been carried out investigating the demolition of the existing stand and replacing it with a new stand with ancillary facilities as an alternative to demolishing the existing terrace (which is fine), replacing it with a new stand and leaving the existing eyesore of a stand and all it's health and safety hazards? Apart from the obvious, there are so many other hurdles which I noted in posts last year in relation to building a new stand where the existing terrace is. What is the problem of doing the sensible thing, replacing the existing stand and we still have a terrace and then down the road when finances allow build more stands? I really fear that people have no idea going down the road as presently proposed will irreparably damage the development of gaa in Meath. Meathball (Meath) - Posts: 140 - 23/09/2021 12:04:30 2382514 Link 1 |
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Agree with virtually every sentence expressed here. The current concrete terrace is compliant as it is, so leave it there. Bite the bullet and demolish the old stand. The asbestos roof is an issue but not so much of an issue that it can't be touched. I have stated here on more occasions than one that asbestos sheets in themselves do not present a hazard if dealt with carefully as they are stable. Either way they have to be dealt with and the sooner the better. The uncertainty of how we are to proceed is the major problem and feeds confusion through the whole project and that includes financing it. Time to put a roadmap in place and stick to it. MillerX (Meath) - Posts: 1080 - 23/09/2021 13:09:55 2382532 Link 0 |
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I could have sworn they removed the asbestos roof from the stand back in the 2000s or did they just talk about it all the way back then? Ratoath Royal (Meath) - Posts: 1374 - 23/09/2021 15:25:32 2382574 Link 18 |
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Ya mustn't head in the venue too often
Brownepat (Meath) - Posts: 532 - 23/09/2021 17:00:47 2382604 Link 0 |
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Think we're coming at this from a couple of different angles. The money that's been spent to date has all indicated the best course of action is to knock the existing terrace, build a new seated stand, upgrade and improve dressing room facilities and offices which can be used. (I'm not sure if there was also mention of possibility of shops being provided there which would generate some further revenue for Meath GAA.. I could be making that up) Some want the existing stand knocked, but there's issues in doing that 1) potential costs of specialist demolition 2) PT being effectively closed for the period of the rebuild, as there would be no facilities in the ground to change or shower 3) where do county matches get played during the duration of the rebuild take place, you've to hire a venue and that's not cheap either. Where in the county could accommodate and provide facilities for county teams and a crowd of 3 to 5,000 people. That's why the terrace being replaced makes more sense at present. The next stage (for me) would then be to knock the existing stand with facilities available being available to host games. Your saying "What is the problem of doing the sensible thing, replacing the existing stand and we still have a terrace and then down the road when finances allow build more stands? I really fear that people have no idea going down the road as presently proposed will irreparably damage the development of gaa in Meath." Replace the existing terrace and you have two seated stands and multiple dressing rooms and facilities available in PT. If you knock the existing stand in future you then still have a seated stand and dressing rooms whilst that works goes on. You don't have to move things out of PT for a period of time. It's blatantly obvious why they would build a new stand where the existing terrace is. If you care so much about the irreparably damage being done to the development of gaa in Meath, get of your back side and get out and do something about it. All you seem to do is moan anonymously about things on an internet forum. You've obviously not seen the 3 minor's in 4 years and a recent all ireland minor win, our ladies team win Intermediate and senior all irelands. Things aren't ideal in Meath GAA but they're making progress, Rome wasn't built in a day neither was Meath GAA. brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 23/09/2021 17:40:16 2382616 Link 10 |
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First of all I hope the Hogan Stand allow my comments be published on this forum as I believe different points of view on this really important development, even be they be opposite to the views of the County Board or HS are allowed to be aired as long as they are not vexatious. I think we probably have similar passion for GAA but not wanting to make this personal I do think based on your comments, your impression of me is obviously very wrong, you say I should stop moaning and get off my arse and do something. For your information this week so far I have done voluntary work of various disciplines for the GAA totalling about 14 hours so far and believe me I know all about the development our Minor boys, Ladies and Men's senior and under 20's hurlers and footballers, so all I will say is I am far from sitting on my arse. However I will admit I could not volunteer the hours some of the officials of the County Board accumulate each week. I am so proud of the progress been made with development squads. Well done to all involved, it is fantastic. And what scares me is some of that good work could be put in jeopardy if proper financial planning and processes are not in place in relation to Pairc Tailteann. You say "the money spent to date has all indicated the best course of action is to knock the existing terrace, build a new seated stand, upgrade and improve dressing room facilities and offices". There for me is the first big problem, there has been far too much money spent to date (€700,000) and nothing much to show for it and I am not sure the people getting all that money (design team) are the people who should be dictating what is best for Meath GAA. The more I see the excuses and reasons been put forward to dismiss a better option, which is to just demolish the existing stand and replace it with a new stand, definitely the more concerned I become. The arguments you use to justify demolishing the existing terrace over demolishing the existing stand don't stand up to any kind scrutiny, if a terrace on one side of the pitch can be demolished without damaging the pitch , then demolishing the stand on the other side of the pitch using similar methods would hardly require people with NASA level qualifications to be brought in to figure how to protect the pitch on that side too. In fact logistically it is probably easier to knock the stand as there is loads of room behind the existing stand (for Plant, site offices, material storage, etc.) and it is not near as confined as the terrace side which would include disrupting traffic on Commons Road etc. In relation to losing dressing rooms during the period of the works, there are many simple solutions, for starters there is direct access from Pairc Tailteann to Navan O' Mahony's clubhouse which has dressing rooms and better facilities than presently under the stand in Pairc Tailteann, I am sure NOM and Meath GAA could come to some arrangement. I want someone to explain with actual real justification, why is the plan proposed by the Meath County Board to demolish the existing terrace and replace it with a new stand, better than knocking the existing stand and building a new stand on that same stand side. Someone please explain the logic of this: At the moment we have the existing terrace which is compliant with health and safety, two grass banks either end which are not and an existing old stand also with hazards, and the decision by Meath GAA is the first thing go and do, is to demolish a perfectly good terrace and leave the existing three other areas that are not fit for purpose as they are, surely it would be better to try and get rid of one of the three areas not fit for purpose first and the most obvious one would be to get rid of the existing stand and build a new one. Then you have the two main spectator areas health and safety compliant and choice for paying customers as to whether they want to sit or stand in comfort. With the path Meath GAA are taken (after spending at least €12 million), we will still have only area fit for purpose in Pairc Tailteann and the other three areas remaining as hazards and unsafe. And Brian you say it is blatantly obvious why they would build a stand where the existing terrace is. How? The only comparison I can make to what Meath GAA are doing, would be along the lines of the fairytale, "The Emperor with no Clothes". The last I want to do is criticise people, who like myself volunteer their time, but I beg anyone who has influence and who cares dearly about the future of GAA in Meath to seriously study the proposed development. If Meath GAA are so confident that the development as proposed is the most suitable, put the plans on public display in a location where they are easily accessible and legible (including displaying detailed plans on the Meath GAA website), and at a very minimum arrange and hold a special County Board meeting to discuss the proposal and allow questions from the floor. In this case I honestly would be relieved if my opinions were wrong and there really was some logic behind the development as proposed and that would be great, but if someone can put forward any kind of reasonable argument to justify what I consider complete madness, please do. At the moment it just doesn't add up for me. Noel Demsey's interview on LMFM a few weeks ago, said or did nothing to support the argument for developing the way they propose. After all the money we have spent already on the design, surely the least that should have been done would have been an honest appraisal and a comparison as to why after doing the development having one safe spectator area is better than two large spectator areas? I have no agenda and only comment and put forward my views because I am a passionate Meath GAA fanatic. Meathball (Meath) - Posts: 140 - 25/09/2021 15:50:48 2382873 Link 4 |
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Meathball, i understand your passion, but you refuse to see the points which have been made that after spending 700k the proposed best solution was redevelop the commons road side of the grounds first. Everything else is just you moaning because its not the way you want things to happen. They've done multiple feasability studies and looked at the best course of action. They've been advised its the commons road side to go first. Should we have another go around and spend another sum of money just because you don't like the answer? brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 27/09/2021 12:37:57 2383153 Link 9 |
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Haven't been on this topic for a long time so haven't read a lot of the previous comments but have read the most recent comments. Before plans were announced I would have thought starting off by replacing the stand was the way they would go considering how old the stand is. But I can see there are also good arguments for starting with the terrace also. Either way, whether we start with the stand side or terrace side the important thing is we make a decision and start moving forward. Even if only one new stand/ dressing rooms ever ends up being built it would still transform PT. At some stage you have to let the people who's job it is to evaluate the options and select the most suitable option to go forward and make a decisions or nothing will be done. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1400 - 27/09/2021 15:01:15 2383182 Link 0 |
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There's old ground being ploughed over here, of course everyone, including the County Board, would love to start on the stand side but the reality is if you do you will be without seating, without covered accommodation and without player and official facilities for potentially 18 months depending on build time, seeing as we have no other venue in the county with a suitable capacity, specifically a covered seated capacity, starting on the stand side isn't really an option in my view. I've very much come to the view that an all seater stadium in Pairc Tailteann ain't going to happen, particularly now with building costs rising, but aiming high was never a problem and personally I would laude that approach, two stands either side and good spec terracing at both ends is the way to go. There is a good argument to be made that after the new stand on the terrace side is done to a 4000 capacity that the two goal ends should be tackled then to boost capacity and improve facilities, two terraces will be much more economically achievable than two stands and I think tackling them before extending the new stand to 7000 capacity is worthy of consideration snd leave the existing stand side until last, if the goal ends are changed to terracing I think the overall timeframe for completion of the whole ground would reduce considerably. As for this notion that PT won't get games and only has a decent crowd a couple of times a year well that's a nonsense view to take, times are changing as are championship formats and a fit for purpose PT will get its fair share of neutral games due to its location and access by motorway and hopefully soon by rail, depending on formats adopted Meath could have more home games annually than at present and we must be conscious of that, given that there is a bit of a rising tide thanks to the great efforts of the minors and the ladies and the encouraging announcement on the underage front yesterday I think the development of PT could become more important on the year ahead. Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3743 - 28/09/2021 13:49:07 2383333 Link 18 |
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Well said Richie and hard to disagree with anything you say. I know you're based in Donegal and if you look at the Ballyboffey venue, I think if something similar was done in Navan as you said when the new stand is in and bring terracing at the O'Mahony's and swimming pool ends around to meet the existing stand we'd have a fine venue. With new terracing there you could look to convert to seating in years to come if needed. Pairc Tailteann should be well able to get games in Leinster championship and qualifiers. We don't need to have 40k stadium, something about 20 or maybe 25k would be more than enough, with seating for 11k. In celtic tiger years counties went mad for 30 and 40k stadia and that's just not feasible.
brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 28/09/2021 14:32:58 2383349 Link 10 |
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I was only in Ballybofey as recently as last night at a minor match and whilst it's basic layout is fine it's a venue that needs a serious updating, the pitch is uneven and sloped whilst the toilets and access to the dressing rooms for players are akin to something from the dark ages, but I digress, the planned capacity of 21'000 is fine, the issue was it was an all seater capacity and expensive to achieve, albeit a fine plan, if the two stands are completed as planned at a capacity of 7000 each then a 14'000 seated capacity would be one of the best around and third best in Leinster behind Croker and I think Nowlan Park, covered seated capacity is becoming more important and it should be the dominant capacity over terracing but terracing should remain and two goal end terraces of circa 4'500 each would give you a 23'000 capacity ground which is perfectly fine. Again the impact of Covid on this whole plan can not be underestimated in terms of funding and rising costs, elements that are completely out of Meath's control, Leinster and Central Council funding has been slashed due to match income being essentially reduced to zero since March 2020 and whilst I think a strong argument exists that Croke Park should borrow to help fund these practical mid size developments I doubt they will with the financial monster that is Casement Park to be fed yet. Still I expect work will start on PT next year and other external revenue streams could be crucial to that start to compliment the government funding.
Richieq (Meath) - Posts: 3743 - 28/09/2021 21:09:05 2383443 Link 18 |
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Well said Richie, I think a layout like Ballyboffey as you say is ideal, obviously with larger dressing rooms, modern facilities and access for everyone, 14,000 seated would be better than i would hope for but i think you are right for what should be done with PT. You're also right in terms of funding things. The funding that John Kavanagh has gone out and organised through the Immigrant fund could be invaluable. I know some don't like the idea behind it but you'll never please 100% of people 100% of the time so sod it ;) Anyways here's hoping for 2022 we'll all be able to get to games and enjoy them in relative comfort. brian (Meath) - Posts: 1973 - 29/09/2021 10:43:51 2383470 Link 12 |
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At the moment Navan is quiet suitable location for qualifier games involving northern teams and teams from Leinster and some other areas. I think if Navan was in a bit more decent shape it would get more games than it currently does. I also agree that inter county championship format reform will almost inevitably lead to more meaningful home games for all teams in the near to medium term future. We need to push on now and get at least one decent stand built in Navan. bdbuddah (Meath) - Posts: 1400 - 29/09/2021 15:00:13 2383538 Link 0 |
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I've always thought along different lines. Move away from Navan. We have this great facility in Dunganny. Build a brand new 16,000 All seater there. Plenty of space. Parking not a problem. Motorway on its doorstop, making it an attractive location for Leinster. There is an opportunity to bring the Dublin-Navan Rail close to it. Most will disagree with me, but you have to think of something outside of the box. Stiofan (Meath) - Posts: 67 - 30/09/2021 09:36:57 2383630 Link 0 |